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i mean it really is a big feather in your cap to at least -attempt- to go after land rights and owners, that's always been the tough nut
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Oct 24, 2020 07:13
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Stateless? Classless? Moneyless? Decide for yerself
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Oct 24, 2020 07:23
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mila kunis posted:capitalism is when the surplus value generated by production is kept by a small class of people who own the means of production (which they use to reinvest some, buy yachts and cocaine, etc). if the surplus is instead given back to the population via healthcare, education, social spending, infrastructure etc i don't see how thats capitalism. the workers are getting the their surplus back, just indirectly through state planning. you can decide thats not 'true' socialism for whatever reason but i don't see how its capitalism
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Oct 24, 2020 08:04
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it's like when a particularly dumb kind of uneducated leftist claims the thing socialism is about destroying is 'hierarchy' which is absolutely untrue at every level. they're very much about destroying unelected, unaccountable hierarchies, though, like the ones aristocrats and capitalists like to make. i dont see how any modern society can be completely sustained by ad-hoc organizing or whatever the gently caress you have instead of the most basic organizational concept from the literal neolithic age.
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Oct 24, 2020 11:07
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The introduction of a state or state-like entity into a socialist society does create a principal-agent problem but so what? It's not an intractable problem, it just needs to be carefully thought through and monitored like all democracies. At its core it holds the potential for mass co-ordination which is a significant benefit over non-hierarchal societies and it doesn't seem to be more prone to despotism than any other system because while the reunification of politics and economics does massively empower those who hold office it also means that any foothold of resistance also possesses that same strength and resilience.
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Oct 24, 2020 12:47
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Larry Parrish posted:it's like when a particularly dumb kind of uneducated leftist claims the thing socialism is about destroying is 'hierarchy' which is absolutely untrue at every level. they're very much about destroying unelected, unaccountable hierarchies, though, like the ones aristocrats and capitalists like to make. i dont see how any modern society can be completely sustained by ad-hoc organizing or whatever the gently caress you have instead of the most basic organizational concept from the literal neolithic age. I think the Anarchist line is destroying unjustifiable heirarchies to be fair.
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Oct 24, 2020 14:54
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ToxicAcne posted:I think the Anarchist line is destroying unjustifiable heirarchies to be fair. tell that to self described anarchists
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Oct 24, 2020 15:41
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have to have elected representatives to provide leadership but basically the principles of what that looks like for socialists go back to the paris commune: immediate right of recall on all elected representatives, councilors, etc., no one in an elected office takes a wage higher than the average of their constituents (so average in the community for a public elected, average of the workers in the union if a union elected), and no higher privileges.
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Oct 24, 2020 15:45
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There's probably a lot of fancy-pants organizing methods you can attempt with digital assistance, and I think it would be worth it to try a bunch of different ones in low-stake contexts combined with application and updating of theory. That's more of an ideal than any sort of prerequisite to massively changing the current system, though.
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Oct 24, 2020 16:01
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uh, hopefully you mean like, what is currently used by socialist orgs, and not the quasi-aristocracy of the United states lol
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Oct 24, 2020 16:18
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apropos to nothing posted:have to have elected representatives to provide leadership but basically the principles of what that looks like for socialists go back to the paris commune: immediate right of recall on all elected representatives, councilors, etc., no one in an elected office takes a wage higher than the average of their constituents (so average in the community for a public elected, average of the workers in the union if a union elected), and no higher privileges. additional things can be stuff like choosing leaders by sortition for situations where expert leadership is unnecessary, and organising bottom-up in general (for which recall etc. is a necessity)
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Oct 24, 2020 16:18
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Goodbye fellow retards (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Oct 24, 2020 16:22
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Fare thee well, old friend. Hanging up the posting cleats?
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Oct 24, 2020 17:23
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Larry Parrish posted:it's like when a particularly dumb kind of uneducated leftist claims the thing socialism is about destroying is 'hierarchy' which is absolutely untrue at every level. they're very much about destroying unelected, unaccountable hierarchies, though, like the ones aristocrats and capitalists like to make. i dont see how any modern society can be completely sustained by ad-hoc organizing or whatever the gently caress you have instead of the most basic organizational concept from the literal neolithic age. gonna progressive stack at the ol' nuclear power plant
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Oct 24, 2020 19:12
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Hilario Baldness posted:State Capitalism = Actually Existing Socialism There was no labor market in the USSR and money was a value of exchange not a commodity. You could buy consumer goods with them but you couldn't buy a factory read theory Top City Homo fucked around with this message at 22:03 on Oct 24, 2020 |
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Oct 24, 2020 21:59
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Dreddout posted:Contrast the rapid decline of quality of life in the post USSR bloc with the economic boom and subsequent rise of living standards in China id say Deng's NEP 2.0 was a good move given the circumstances Ardennes posted:The question is how to get out of it. That said, the material conditions in China have improved to the point that China may very well be to stand against the West mostly on its own. I think the big problem is that while it did a lot of good at increasing the material conditions of a huge amount of people, you’ve also created another billionaire owning class that needs to be contended with to move forward with any substantial stand against western capitalism
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Oct 24, 2020 22:10
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It's real socialism when the state says so, I believe also that America is a freedomtopia where everyone is able to pull themselves up by their bootstraps, because I love believing the self narrative of nation states all day every day
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Oct 24, 2020 22:22
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Top City Homo posted:There was no labor market in the USSR and money was a value of exchange not a commodity. You could buy consumer goods with them but you couldn't buy a factory Wow it's almost like the state was ameliorating the effects of private capitalism by preventing an industrial reserve army of labor and private ownership of other people's labor. If only there was a word for a social order like this.
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Oct 24, 2020 22:38
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Hilario Baldness posted:Wow it's almost like the state was ameliorating the effects of private capitalism by preventing an industrial reserve army of labor and private ownership of other people's labor. If only there was a word for a social order like this. socialism
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Oct 24, 2020 23:40
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T-man posted:It's real socialism when the state says so, I believe also that America is a freedomtopia where everyone is able to pull themselves up by their bootstraps, because I love believing the self narrative of nation states all day every day
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Oct 25, 2020 00:10
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Flavius Aetass posted:that nixon is a pro-tier av Just wanted to let folks know I seized this, so they aren't embarrassed later on by being confused with me.
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Oct 25, 2020 00:47
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what happens with the amish after a hypothetical US revolution do the amish constitute a separate nation within the US
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Oct 25, 2020 01:06
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Atrocious Joe posted:what happens with the amish after a hypothetical US revolution we cannot allow them to continue their sorcery of installing wood mantles over chinese space heaters
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Oct 25, 2020 01:08
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Atrocious Joe posted:what happens with the amish after a hypothetical US revolution why would they require special attention?
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Oct 25, 2020 01:12
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indigi posted:why would they require special attention? Because they’re the only ones who will be able to build or do anything once we can’t google stuff.
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Oct 25, 2020 04:32
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Atrocious Joe posted:what happens with the amish after a hypothetical US revolution More like an SSR, really
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Oct 25, 2020 04:34
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we can give west Pennsylvania to them & the quakers
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Oct 25, 2020 04:44
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communist sausages https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AcxQBkdughc
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Oct 25, 2020 05:08
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Atrocious Joe posted:what happens with the amish after a hypothetical US revolution 
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Oct 25, 2020 05:31
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Sheng-Ji Yang posted:we can give west Pennsylvania to them & the quakers Lancaster is in eastern PA.
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Oct 25, 2020 06:31
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GalacticAcid posted:Lancaster is in eastern PA. anything west of Media is western PA imo
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Oct 25, 2020 06:34
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Atrocious Joe posted:what happens with the amish after a hypothetical US revolution the smallest political organizing unit should be the local workers council constituting either a large worksite or a small community such as a rural town or neighborhood/district of a city, so unless the amish are way more spread out than I think they'd already be autonomous
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Oct 25, 2020 10:20
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Big fan of the Dutch Amish collective both not having a capital and also still including Alaska and Hawaii in it
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Oct 25, 2020 10:53
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SSJ_naruto_2003 posted:Big fan of the Dutch Amish collective both not having a capital and also still including Alaska and Hawaii in it Alaskan commitment to staying in the Atlantic North East sphere, or me forgetting to repaint those states, you decide!
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Oct 25, 2020 20:35
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jZLHsqOXFkc this song owns
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Oct 25, 2020 23:48
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OuG8x3IadnQ
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Oct 26, 2020 13:25
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on one hand it's nice that Europeans weren't given british accents, on the other that voice acting was so lovely I closed the video in 10 seconds flat
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Oct 26, 2020 16:02
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"I like your boneless...and your shrewd ideas."
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Oct 26, 2020 16:05
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very adult swim vibes
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Oct 26, 2020 17:07
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I just learned today that El Alto in Bolivia is controlled by a very Bookchin esque model of Conefederal Municipalism. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fejuve Any good readings on the topic and Bolivia's turn to the left in the 2000s?
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Oct 27, 2020 01:54
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