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Jenkl posted:After-action report: I returned the ungroundable switches and went to find groundable ones. Amazon? https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00004YUO0/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_XOXLFbK4H0BG6
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Oct 26, 2020 19:49
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Jenkl posted:
Well I can say at least here in the states, we are not experiencing any shortages on such items. I happen to work for a chain of hardware stores. Each of our stores has literal bins full of Leviton standard grade grounded switches. They retail for a whole 60 cents. Have you checked out other stores? In my area of the US, even the smallest hole-in-the-wall hardware store will carry basic grounded light switches. Hell even Wal-Mart has them in their hardware/electrical isle.
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Oct 26, 2020 20:01
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KnifeWrench posted:So I've decided to replace the CFL cans in my kitchen with LEDs, and I've found a number of tutorials online that all run through the same very simple method for doing the retrofit by basically chopping the blue/red wires from the ballast and using them to carry hot and neutral into the old can, then wire-nutting those to the (cut and stripped) leads from the LED retrofit kit. I can provide a link if the description is confusing, but it's really simple and works fine. My retrofits had an adapter that screwed into the edison base, and then had a molex like connector that fit the LEDs.
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Oct 26, 2020 20:07
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I have an outlet in my bedroom that is tied to a light switch. I don't care for this function, and I would like the outlet to be on all the time. Can I just add an outlet that has the tabs intact? Do I need to do anything to the light switch that was used to turn the outlet on and off?
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Oct 26, 2020 20:10
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Bioshuffle posted:I have an outlet in my bedroom that is tied to a light switch. I don't care for this function, and I would like the outlet to be on all the time. Is the outlet half switched and half on permanently? Does the light switch switch anything else?
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Oct 26, 2020 20:13
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Bioshuffle posted:I have an outlet in my bedroom that is tied to a light switch. I don't care for this function, and I would like the outlet to be on all the time. You absolutely can, wire-nut the unused hot lead from the switch off for safety, you can put a blank plate where the switch goes, but I think that looks worse.
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Oct 26, 2020 20:25
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Guy Axlerod posted:My retrofits had an adapter that screwed into the edison base, and then had a molex like connector that fit the LEDs. Yes, I should be clearer. The CFL can has a 4-pin socket that goes to a "permanent" ballast in the ceiling. So I don't have an edison socket. This is apparently a CA requirement. So instead, I've cut the edison base off the connector so it can be permanently wired.
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Oct 26, 2020 20:45
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This might fall a little bit outside of whats normally asked here but I need to install metallic flex from a box to a hole in some 3/8" or 1/2" steel, whats already installed is a cord grip with the longest threads I've ever seen to get through the steel plate. Are there sealtite/flex fittings out there that have an long enough thread or should I try and find a conduit nipple and a flex connector with a female npt thread on the back side of it and use some of these https://www.mcmaster.com/7466K37/ to keep it weathertight? All the holes are sized for 1/2 inch conduit and I really don't want to have to drill that plate out and thread it for 3/4" fittings.
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Oct 26, 2020 21:03
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SpartanIvy posted:Is the outlet half switched and half on permanently? Does the light switch switch anything else? Elviscat posted:You absolutely can, wire-nut the unused hot lead from the switch off for safety, you can put a blank plate where the switch goes, but I think that looks worse. I have a non-GFCI outlet in my kitchen that is supposed to be GFCI protected. However, when I press the test button on the GFCI tester, all three lights light up, indicating a hot/grd rev or hot/neu rev. Is this something I should call an electrician for?
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Oct 26, 2020 22:39
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Bioshuffle posted:That would be correct. The top outlet works independent of the switch. The bottom one is tied to the switch. The tab linking the two outlets has been broken off. Pressing the button is only there to pop the GFCI. If you don't have a GFCI then that happens. Steady state without the button pressed is the outlet wiring test and you "failed" the gfci test. Replace the outlet with a GFCI and re-test. Easy to do assuming the box isn't crammed full of wires.
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Oct 26, 2020 22:51
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H110Hawk posted:Pressing the button is only there to pop the GFCI. If you don't have a GFCI then that happens. Steady state without the button pressed is the outlet wiring test and you "failed" the gfci test. Replace the outlet with a GFCI and re-test. Easy to do assuming the box isn't crammed full of wires. When I test the actual GFCI outlet and it pops, the outlet in question loses power until I reset the actual GFCI unit, which tells me the outlet is connected to the GFCI outlet. When I plug in the tester to the outlet that's connected to the GFCI, it does not pop when I use the GFCI tester button. I've checked the line and load for the GFCI receptacle and it's fine. I used the voltage pen to make sure the line was hot. What am I missing?  I've pretty much followed this diagram, except I have the ground wire connected. I figure it doesn't matter which nut the wires are plugged into, as they're connected by the tab Edit: Figured it out! Everything works now. Bioshuffle fucked around with this message at 00:17 on Oct 27, 2020 |
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Oct 26, 2020 23:04
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Bioshuffle posted:That would be correct. The top outlet works independent of the switch. The bottom one is tied to the switch. The tab linking the two outlets has been broken off.
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Oct 26, 2020 23:16
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Bioshuffle posted:I only see three wires in the outlet (hot, neutral and ground), and they're all in the correct slot. The outlet in question is a non-GFCI that is daisy chained into a GFCI outlet. What was it?
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Oct 27, 2020 01:41
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H110Hawk posted:What was it? There was a switch for the garbage disposal in the chain that didn't have a ground wire. I had decided to add a grounding wire by undoing a wire nut to grab a grounding wire. Turns out the grounding wire was from the wrong cable. I just added the ground wire back to the wire nut of grounds, and it resolved itself.
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Oct 27, 2020 03:39
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Get one of those testers at home depot or amazon for future use. Makes things easy and they're like $7. Just not that the GFCI button only works when there's actual ground. So if you see the open ground on a GFCI receptacle (due to not having ground originally in the first place), you're still OK. https://www.homedepot.com/p/Gardner-Bender-Outlet-and-GFCI-Tester-GFI-3501/202867890
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Oct 27, 2020 06:19
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Sorry if this is the wrong thread because I don't wander into this side of the forums often, but looking for some advice here. I just signed a lease and moved into a newly remodeled apartment in an older building yesterday. I've already had three worrying electrical experiences: * When I flipped on the lights in the bedroom, the switches sparked and the lights flickered and then went out. Switch is now non-functional. Super said he couldn't fix it but would ask the building manager to come by tomorrow. * The bedroom closet fixture is empty -- super tried to put in a light bulb, but couldn't get the switch to work. He muttered something about pigtails and aluminum, and said the building manager would come by tomorrow. He left the light bulb in and turned on dangling from the ceiling which concerned me a bit but he said it was just fine. * I discovered late last night that when I plug my laptop into the wall outlet in the living room, another outlet ten feet away emits yellow sparks audibly. I've reproduced this three times because I'm a dumbass I guess. I left it plugged in briefly once, and I heard more crackling about 30 seconds later from the other outlet. It was literally the only thing that I've plugged in since moving in, and I've unplugged it now. The super outright told me that the building manager is a cheap rear end who won't spring to replace things like malfunctioning 40 year old door hinges, and I don't have confidence that either of them have real electrical skills. I am scared to plug anything in now, and I am worried to leave my cats alone in what I now fear is some kinda fire trap. I'm considering breaking the lease on this place after literally one day and doing in emergency apartment search. It would suck to eat a couple thousand bucks but now would be the time to do it since everything's packed up. And I don't want to spend a year of living in fear of an electrical fire. Am I overreacting here? Is there any response from these dudes that would signal that it's okay?
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Oct 27, 2020 10:51
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That sounds bad, if you hear crackling from another outlet when you plug something in I think that means a loose neutral connection downstream. The crackling is electricity arcing through the air between two close but not touching points, and it can light something flamable nearby on fire, or melt insulation off something else and cause other problems. If I were you I'd figure out which circuits those outlets are on and switch off the breakers in your electrical panel that feed them, (assuming they aren't also running critical devices like your fridge or water heater or whatever) until you get a licensed electrician to diagnose & fix the problem. In the meantime you can use lamps plugged into good outlets for light, extension cords run out of the way for low/medium amperage devices like TV's, phone chargers, computers, (make sure not to overload the rating of the cord with multiple devices). If your building manager gives you the run around I suppose you could refuse to pay rent until he fixes everything and threaten to apply for Covid eviction protections (I am not a lawyer this is not legal advice)
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Oct 27, 2020 12:43
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ntan1 posted:Get one of those testers at home depot or amazon for future use. Makes things easy and they're like $7. Just not that the GFCI button only works when there's actual ground. So if you see the open ground on a GFCI receptacle (due to not having ground originally in the first place), you're still OK. Got one already. It's how I realized I had an issue with the no Gfci outlet that was daisy chained into one that was.
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Oct 27, 2020 14:17
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Yeah I'll just check out another store for 'em. Question: am I right in thinking my lights flickering when I close doors means a loose connection somewhere? Just want a sanity check before needlessly removing something.
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Oct 27, 2020 16:22
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Chomposaur posted:Sorry if this is the wrong thread because I don't wander into this side of the forums often, but looking for some advice here. Buy renters insurance right now. Yesterday if you can. Video the arcing and sparkin, that is how you start a fire. Literally. If you are further worried about it you can call the city and ask about it, further from that is the fire marshall. You are not overreacting to arcing outlets or discussions of cowboy repairs to aluminum wiring.
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Oct 27, 2020 16:37
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I would flip breakers off to everything non-critical asap. That's scary as hell. I don't even know how you would get results that bad, but I'd be looking to move asap. If they didn't care to do it right the first time then they're definitely not going to do it any better the next time. Also turn in all your videos and such to the city to make them aware after you're gone because there is no way in hell they've permitted any of that.
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Oct 27, 2020 17:35
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Found a fun surprise when troubleshooting baseboard heat in our new house. Every time I turned up the thermostat in 1 room, it would immediately trip the breaker. Opened up the cover on the baseboard to find this: The heater isn't actually connected to anything, and the 2 sets of wires coming out of the wall are hooked together. I opened up the thermostat to find just 1 set of wires coming into the box. From testing the wires at the heater, it looks like 1 set is coming from the thermostat box, while the other is the live set coming from the panel. So I know this is setup completely wrong, but can I make this work? Theoretically it should work if I wire the white/neutral wire from the panel to the red/neutral heater, then wire the black/hot wire from the panel to the white wire heading to the thermostat, then hook the black wire from the thermostat to the black wire on the heater. Is this an OK solution or am I asking to burn down my house?
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Oct 27, 2020 18:25
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slurry_curry posted:
Yes, this will work, though the white wire in this case is a hot (phase) and not a neutral (unless the heater is 120V, but I doubt it. It's a two-pole breaker running this I assume). You'll be making/breaking one of the hot legs with the thermostat and the other will be connected all of the time. Legal, but one can't use a digital line-voltage thermostat when things are wired this way.
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Oct 27, 2020 18:46
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Blackbeer posted:Yes, this will work, though the white wire in this case is a hot (phase) and not a neutral (unless the heater is 120V, but I doubt it. It's a two-pole breaker running this I assume). Seconded, I'd also be wary of that old-rear end baseboard and WHY it was disconnected in the first place.
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Oct 27, 2020 18:52
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Elviscat posted:Seconded, I'd also be wary of that old-rear end baseboard and WHY it was disconnected in the first place. This. A new baseboard heater is gonna be 50-200 dollars and save you so much potential anxiety about safety, tbh. Blindeye fucked around with this message at 19:06 on Oct 27, 2020 |
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Oct 27, 2020 19:03
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The way it's currently wired means the thermostat when turned on is just shorting the two phases, right? That seems like a bad way of 'disconnecting' the heater, I'm guessing the person who did it just figured white-to-white / black-to-black and everything's good?
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Oct 27, 2020 19:05
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Blackbeer posted:Yes, this will work, though the white wire in this case is a hot (phase) and not a neutral (unless the heater is 120V, but I doubt it. It's a two-pole breaker running this I assume). Awesome, thanks for the clarification. The solution made sense in my head, but I am definitely not an electrician. Elviscat posted:Seconded, I'd also be wary of that old-rear end baseboard and WHY it was disconnected in the first place. While I can see what you are saying, seeing as they "disconnected it" by basically shorted the wire back to itself, I assume who ever did it had no idea wtf they were doing. That being said, seeing as I can get a new one from home depot for ~$60, I might as well swap it out. Nevets posted:The way it's currently wired means the thermostat when turned on is just shorting the two phases, right? That seems like a bad way of 'disconnecting' the heater, I'm guessing the person who did it just figured white-to-white / black-to-black and everything's good? Yup, thats how it was setup. No clue what the person was thinking when they did that. I have disconnected everything and put wire nuts on all the wires to be safe till I figure out how to "fix" it.
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Oct 27, 2020 19:23
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Nevets posted:That sounds bad, if you hear crackling from another outlet when you plug something in I think that means a loose neutral connection downstream. The crackling is electricity arcing through the air between two close but not touching points, and it can light something flamable nearby on fire, or melt insulation off something else and cause other problems. SpartanIvy posted:I would flip breakers off to everything non-critical asap. That's scary as hell. H110Hawk posted:Buy renters insurance right now. Yesterday if you can. Thanks all -- I already have renter's insurance, and this was a good reminder to update the address on that so that's done. I took a video of the sparking and went out to city hall to engage the building inspectors bright and early this morning. They sent out someone, although unfortunately it was a guy who didn't really know about electrical work, he seemed to just be here to document that the issues got fixed and take pictures of whatever problems/repairs were being done. I guess it's good that this has been Officially Documented now. It also spurred the building manager into action, he was on site and ready to go in the ten minutes it took me to get back from city hall. I was expecting him to be pissed, but he seemed pretty understanding of why I'd get the town involved for multiple electrical issues. He opened up the electrical outlet that was sparking when I plugged in my laptop, and the issue indeed seemed to be a loose connection (there was some kind of "rust" on it which is apparently a thing with aluminum wiring?). I don't think it had anything to do with the renovations, it was an old outlet that had degraded over time. I'm not sure why the previous tenant didn't discover it -- maybe she just didn't use any of those outlets, or maybe her couch was up against it and she just didn't notice it snap crackling and popping which is scary af. The light switch I have no understanding of besides that it appeared to just be a bad light switch. Building manager replaced that as well. I wish that I'd been more on the ball to ask coherent questions about that one, but I was sleep delirious after three days of moving and a night of dealing with electrical stuff. I went around with the buiding inspector guy and we flipped on all the switches and plugged something into all the outlets, didn't see anything out of the ordinary. I called Electrician Stepdad and his advice was to be ultra wary for any electrical problems, and be ready to hit the ejector seat if I see any more. He's going to drive out within the next week to take a look himself. So I'm tentatively planning to stay here. My plan anyway was to use this place as a base camp to find something to buy within the next year or so, so if I find something that looks good maybe I'll accelerate my timeline on that.
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Oct 27, 2020 21:03
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Chomposaur posted:Thanks all -- I already have renter's insurance, and this was a good reminder to update the address on that so that's done. You have done well, good job. This will hopefully save someones life. Chomposaur posted:
Aluminum wiring corrodes but that is not an excuse here. There are things which are rated to help with that. Your Electrician Stepdad should be able to instantly tell what is right or wrong here, can he visit your apartment?
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Oct 27, 2020 21:14
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H110Hawk posted:You have done well, good job. This will hopefully save someones life. Thanks! I've been trying to be less passive about things that seem wrong. Even if it doesn't turn out to help, I bonded with the building inspector chatting about starcraft so I have a new local nerd buddy :P My stepdad's going to come out and take a look at the apartment this weekend I think. He's a few hours away and he's got work so that's the earliest he can make it.
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Oct 27, 2020 21:55
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Chomposaur posted:Thanks! I've been trying to be less passive about things that seem wrong. Even if it doesn't turn out to help, I bonded with the building inspector chatting about starcraft so I have a new local nerd buddy :P If you are now starcraft buddies with the building inspector now is your chance to have your very own  / be a slumlord!Hopefully things get going in the right direction, if your stepdad is hours away then I wouldn't press him on it, but do take pictures for the thread if you want to! Repairs should be easy to verify ("did they use al/cu connectors? noalox? new devices? Did the city sign off?") But you should seriously consider just asking to get out of your lease and go elsewhere. If your apartment is that bad so is everyone else's, unless you can get your starcraft buddy's electrical coworker to go door-to-door and inspect things.
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Oct 27, 2020 22:42
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slurry_curry posted:
As long as the heater frame is grounded there's not much that can go wrong with baseboard heaters (electrically). I've never actually seen a failed baseboard; it's always been a thermostat, breaker, or like in your case someone mis-wired it. If you had a probe tester you could check for continuity (Ohms) between the hot leads of the heater and the grounded frame, and check voltage between power and ground, but even if I didn't have one I'd just wire it up and try it before spending the money to replace it.
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Oct 27, 2020 22:54
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I'm installing a bathroom exhaust fan/ceiling light this weekend. How this house didn't have one before, I don't know...it's not THAT old, 1970, but it is what is it I suppose. There is NOTHING there right now. Only lights in the bathroom are the vanity, so I have to run electrical up there. Current plan, and tell me if this seems wrong. 1) Find where fixture will go, cut hole in ceiling, install. 2) Remove existing light-switch for the vanity lights and single-gang box (nothing wrong with the light-switch, but just swapping from "regular beige" to "decora bright white") to match the other switches and outlets I've replaced 3) Make bigger hole in drywall, install old-work double-gang box. 4) Fish a new drop from attic down to the box. I'm hoping this is easy, it's an interior, non-insulated wall so I should be able to follow along the existing romex that is there for the vanity lights 5) Pigtail from the existing romex, with neutrals and ground connecting straight to the new drop, and the hot wired to a timer switch for the fan. 6) Connect new switch for vanity lights (same as the new drop, neutral+ ground pigtailed from existing romex back to the lights for the vanity, hot wired to switch) 7) Back in the attic, connect the new drop to the exhaust fan 8) Not electrical related, but for completeness sake less anyone think I'm stupid, install roof vent and connect exhaust fan to said vent Mostly I just want to make sure that pigtailing from the one wire that's there now for the vanity to a new switch then up to the ceiling fan is ok, code wise.
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Oct 30, 2020 19:54
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The pigtail is fine. If the house is from 1970 you very well might have "adjustable" metal boxes. If that's the case you can pull the end off and add another gang to it. This is preferable because then you won't have to disturb the existing cabling.
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Oct 30, 2020 20:02
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It's a good opportunity to swap out the box for a 2 gang and install a GFCI if the bathroom is missing one like many 70s homes, if you have room on the wall and it's close enough to the counter to be useful.
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Oct 30, 2020 20:11
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Motronic posted:The pigtail is fine. If the house is from 1970 you very well might have "adjustable" metal boxes. If that's the case you can pull the end off and add another gang to it. This is preferable because then you won't have to disturb the existing cabling. Hmm...I'll have to take a look, then. I assume adding a box to the existing one is easy enough to do in-place? I'm looking online for an example of what it looks like/how to do it, but every result I'm getting is for box extensions going outward, like when you're tiling a wall and need to get it flush. angryrobots posted:It's a good opportunity to swap out the box for a 2 gang and install a GFCI if the bathroom is missing one like many 70s homes, if you have room on the wall and it's close enough to the counter to be useful. The bathroom IS missing an outlet, so I'd love to do that... BUT the existing box/switch is on the outside of the door, so won't do much good to install an outlet there. I am planning on doing an almost full* bathroom reno in the spring, which will include removing all existing drywall, so I will install an outlet then when the walls are all open and it's easy to run a line, and probably re-locate the light switches as well. *Almost full because the tub/shower is not getting replaced.
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Oct 30, 2020 20:30
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DrBouvenstein posted:Hmm...I'll have to take a look, then. I assume adding a box to the existing one is easy enough to do in-place? I'm looking online for an example of what it looks like/how to do it, but every result I'm getting is for box extensions going outward, like when you're tiling a wall and need to get it flush. Yeah, I just know them as "metal boxes" so I don't know what to search on. Here's a bad youtube video with the styles of them: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gE1E1TmpEm8 Each of those you can take the "end cap" off with a screwdriver from the inside and add additional gangs to them. I just spent a couple minutes looking around the barn and can't seem to find any spares to take a pic of. Might have them somewhere else. I'll look again later.
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Oct 30, 2020 20:44
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DrBouvenstein posted:
In that case, maybe just swap in a single gang dual-switch Decora and don't mess with the box unless you have to?  Edit -though when I've done exactly what you're doing, I found it easier to remove the metal box, fish my new wire, and install an old work box. YMMV. angryrobots fucked around with this message at 21:17 on Oct 30, 2020 |
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Oct 30, 2020 21:14
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angryrobots posted:In that case, maybe just swap in a single gang dual-switch Decora and don't mess with the box unless you have to? Thought about it, but I do want the fan to be on a timer so I can just set it to like 30/45/60 minutes, depending on how much internal dread I'm feeling and how long it will take to wash away the dread, and have it keep going when I'm done to continue to exhaust the water vapor without having to remember to go turn it off, especially if it's also going to have a light. Of course, another option is install that double switch like you posted, but ALSO a timer switch, fish two lines up to the attic, and have the light and fan wired independently so that I can keep the exhaust going after a shower but not also have to have the light on. gently caress, I think I'm going to have to do that. Will a standard double-gang fit 4 sets of romex (power in, three out to the two lights and fan) PLUS the triple pigtail (likely will actually use WAGO) or do I need an extra deep version? DrBouvenstein fucked around with this message at 21:29 on Oct 30, 2020 |
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Oct 30, 2020 21:24
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DrBouvenstein posted:Of course, another option is install that double switch like you posted, but ALSO a timer switch, fish two lines up to the attic, and have the light and fan wired independently so that I can keep the exhaust going after a shower but not also have to have the light on. What about one of the fancy fans that turns itself on with a motion sensor for X minutes and also has a humidity sensor? If that would work for you all you need is hot/neutral/ground up there. Forget the switch. Not an endorsement of this model, but this kind of thing: https://www.homedepot.com/p/Panason...roduct-overview
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Oct 30, 2020 22:03
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