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Kaczyński will not live forever. And Ziobro is luckily nowhere close to him wrt getting right side under him. But the next elections are in 2023 so we're in deep poo poo until then.
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Oct 26, 2020 16:19
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threaten one, sure, but i don't think pis would dare try an exit.
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Oct 26, 2020 16:20
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alex314 posted:Kaczyński will not live forever. And Ziobro is luckily nowhere close to him wrt getting right side under him. But the next elections are in 2023 so we're in deep poo poo until then. in 2015 I estimated that it will take like 16 years or so. Two pis stints, then two from po, full discrediting of "post-solidarity boomer" (© Lichtenstein) people and maybe, maybe whatever leftist force is there will have a chance. Now it's a lot less likely because pis has basically redefined the boundaries of what's politically acceptable. I am almost sure that next in line will be a full on fash gov. No telling what will come after that. Rinkles posted:threaten one, sure, but i don't think pis would dare try an exit. Europe - in the shitter with regards to corona, immoral due to its thirst for civilization of death. It's a dishonor for us to be in that club. Anne Frank Funk fucked around with this message at 17:37 on Oct 26, 2020 |
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Oct 26, 2020 16:38
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Kraków is basically paralysed by the blockades we're making rn
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Oct 26, 2020 17:26
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Anne Frank Funk posted:As a hypothetical, how many years before a leftist party wins elections in Poland in your opinion? About 40, once all Gen-Xers die out. Only half-joking here, the stigma is too strong. We'll have some Inevitable Milquetoast Centrists eventually, but I do think there is some leftward shift going on. Not one that'll lead to Proper Left, but perhaps steer the center-right back more towards center. Another part of the post-solidarity boomer stasis that I think is slowly beginning to die out is this kind of never-mentally-left-the-nineties hyperliberal narrative. For all the PiS-PO polarization, one thing that did happen across the wider masses is that it became okay to say perhaps PO wasn't perfect just because it wasn't PiS. PiS' social programs have been a huge hit and while PO has been laughably slow to grok that maybe they could throw a concession or two to the softer economic voter base of their opponents, now you've got loving Trzaskowski bringing up the topic of junk contracts. There might be some moves in the right direction, carefully repackaged to never admit possible leftist-adjacency. Also, the next centrist to hit it big might do so without particular concessions to court the more moderate of churchgoing conservatives. It's been a bit of a running theme with all the Smiling, Pro-Western PO 2.0 Wannabes pussying out really quickly out of fear of losing moderate conservatives. I think some things could swing in a more progressive direction by sheer virtue of being opposite to what the badwrong pis wanted. I think more lax abortion laws and same-sex civil partnerships (probably not proper marriages though) are relatively realistic to wish for in the immediate post-pis future. Also maybe something concerning the coal industry, but not because they give a poo poo but rather that the inevitable implosion of the Silesian hot potato might complete/be pinned on the late PiS era. PS. Also, thankfully, I think the real hardcore flash in the pan nazi right is relatively short-lived. The whole Kukiz-and-whoever-the-other-idiots-were have been melting like Biedroń's support and what's left ofKonfederacja is having some real tensions between the libtards and nationalists. A lot of the Korwin brigade has been really, really unhappy with this little coalition for a long time. Guess it's been harder to ignore Korwin's more right-wing outbursts as Cool Rebellious Edge. I really wouldn't worry about some nazi apocalypse once we hit the coalition eating its tail due to internal bullshit eventually.
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Oct 26, 2020 17:35
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In the past 25 years, my hard left voting part of the family moved to the center right, while the right wing part went center left. I don’t know how representative that is of voter drift in Poland, but at least in Warsaw, it’s all over the place and you wouldn’t catch me making any prognosis regarding where we’re going.
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Oct 26, 2020 17:50
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Rinkles posted:threaten one, sure, but i don't think pis would dare try an exit. The day Poland joins the ranks of the net contributors to the EU budget is the day Polxit happens. Not one day before, but not one day later.
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Oct 26, 2020 19:08
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Cat Mattress posted:The day Poland joins the ranks of the net contributors to the EU budget is the day Polxit happens. Not one day before, but not one day later. Which will take a very loooooooooong time. Just how intertwined and dependent is the polish economy with Germany?
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Oct 26, 2020 19:24
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Not as intertwined as it used to be!
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Oct 26, 2020 20:31
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dex_sda posted:Kraków is basically paralysed by the blockades we're making rn krakow was cool when I was there, good luck guys  any idea what poznan's up to as far as all this? my polish literacy has collapsed in the last decade
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Oct 26, 2020 20:37
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There’s a surprising amount of business done with Russia and China - anything from coal to agricultural products. While Germany tops the import and export charts, Russia and China take the 2nd and 3rd in imports. Still, summing them up, we import 2/3 from them of what we import from Germany.
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Oct 26, 2020 20:41
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GreyjoyBastard posted:any idea what poznan's up to as far as all this? my polish literacy has collapsed in the last decade Here’s some pics from a local paper, you’ll need to Gtranslate for the details. https://gloswielkopolski.pl/strajk-.../ar/c6-15257226
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Oct 26, 2020 20:47
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Kind of surprising to see english slogans on the demo outside PiS HQ - “PiS off” and “PiS is a disease”. There’s also a homely “Jarek Wypierdalaj” (Jaroslaw Kaczynski gently caress off) and a steady chant of “Jebac PiS” (gently caress PiS). I guess no more  , to which the government and nationalists seem a bit surprised, as it was their forte up to now.Downtown Warsaw is jam packed with protesters, main streets closed. Police is taking a step back, which is new, as up until today they were extremely heavy handed in view of any sign of dissidence in the last few weeks. It didn’t stop them from siding with the nationalists gathered around one of the downtown churches, where scuffles erupted with the general public trying to make their way inside. There were two car attacks on blockades in Warsaw downtown - one guy struck down two girls and fled, and a car full of nationalists tried to ram their way through the crowd surrounding the aforementioned church. Cops bailed them out from the crowd and even managed to save their car from getting tipped over. No casualties reported. There’s a planned 500,000 people march on Friday in Warsaw. https://twitter.com/marcinterlik/status/1320841823863083015?s=21 https://twitter.com/brumienczyk/status/1320838835425759234?s=21 gently caress, why am I always away when this poo poo breaks. Mokotow fucked around with this message at 22:47 on Oct 26, 2020 |
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Oct 26, 2020 22:28
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Truga posted:as a stupid slav, borat is extremely cool and good. a really big portion of internet left has lost its sense of humour somewhere, and it's getting incredibly tiring Nah, some of it was definitely coming from enlightened centrists in a "see, the left has no problem with offensive stereotypes when it fits their narrative and what's up with carpeted walls anyway" kind of way. It died down since.
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Oct 27, 2020 10:39
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All the best wishes for our Polska brothers. God I wish more people in my east shithole will wake up looking up to you guys.
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Oct 27, 2020 11:39
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Mokotow posted:Kind of surprising to see english slogans on the demo outside PiS HQ - “PiS off” and “PiS is a disease”. There’s also a homely “Jarek Wypierdalaj” (Jaroslaw Kaczynski gently caress off) and a steady chant of “Jebac PiS” (gently caress PiS). I guess no more It kinda makes sense to me. It appeals to international news coverage, and if you're being covered internationally, it's harder for national media to ignore or unfairly report on your cause.
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Oct 27, 2020 13:02
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one of the weirdest consequences of this whole debacle is that our The Onion, Asz Dziennik, which publishes satirical stories online, has dedicated most of their coverage to actual, legitimate news articles now ripping into the ruling class. the lightning bolt, which the women are using as a symbol of the protests, has been likened to the SS insignia by the parliament's marshall.
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Oct 27, 2020 18:18
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Kaczyński has just addressed the nation in a truly psychotic video. He called for outright civil war. He's calling on supporters to defend churches by any means necessary, and says the State has moral imperative to crush the attacks. He has also insinuated the protests and direct action are a direct attack by trained hostiles. He said, head on, there will be bodies. Starting tomorrow, the army is authorised to "assist the police in helping control the spread of the pandemic." poo poo is about to pop off in Poland big time.
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Oct 27, 2020 18:50
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drat, I thought they would try to deescalate, poo poo's definitely going to go down.
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Oct 27, 2020 18:57
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Alright, I am now genuinely terrified. Deep down I hoped this might be the one time they do anything other than double down, but no. The protesters are foreign inspired criminal nihilists trying to destroy Poland. Absolute Lukashenko energy, but the call on supporters to defend the church is loving chilling. gently caress and poo poo, they're gonna crack down and they're gonna do it by turning fascist gangs into titushki.
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Oct 27, 2020 18:58
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Bring it. I’m the least adventurous person the likes of which have ever been seen, to quote the classics, but this is just too much. I seriously doubt any significant part of the police or army would do anything he’s suggesting, but the fash will listen and I’m ready to go and beat the fash.
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Oct 27, 2020 19:00
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loving same, and I'm a basement dweller who's terrified of going outside
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Oct 27, 2020 19:03
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If it escalates further there will be civil war by Monday in Poland. FYI. This is a weak attempt at humor but it is getting more outlandish and dangerous hour by hour.
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Oct 27, 2020 19:25
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sznurowadlo posted:If it escalates further there will be civil war by Monday in Poland. Friday is going to be an enormous nationwide protest, and I expect serious direct action on Monday. In the meantime, Młodzież Wszechpolska has started gathering fash volunteers for defending churches. Stay alert, stay calm, and remember: bash the fash
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Oct 27, 2020 19:30
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Scratch Monkey posted:Is Borat supposed to be a Slav or a Turkman? I thought he was the latter as he's from Kazakhstan. The actual reason has already been given (he's from Kazakhstan because the people he's interacting with and who are likely to buy into the act and say vile poo poo are likely to not know what the hell people from Kazakhstan are like), but it's worth noting that there are a substantial number of ethnic Russians in Kazakhstan. This goes a way back to Tsarist days, but really took off under the Soviet period when the native Kazakh population was devastated by famine in the 30s, which was exacerbated by Soviet efforts to destroy Kazakh nomadism which resulted in about 90% of the famine deaths being ethnic Kazakhs, combined with deportations, Kazakhs fleeing and Russians settled on the now vacant land (and populating the new urbana and industrial centers). This resulted in Kazakhs actually being a minority in their own country (making up about one third of the population, with Russians making up about 60%) throughout most of the Soviet period. This was partially reversed upon independence, with more than half of the Russians leaving and the Kazakh diaspora having the opportunity to return, but Russians still make up around 20% of the population, and probably still make up the majority in some cities.
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Oct 27, 2020 19:41
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As a side note, tomorrow's going to be Women's Strike. Going to be interesting to see how widespread it will get. Combining protests with strike seems p good. Hopefully more to come. Some fuckers like Morawiecki will probably get more scared by line on a graph going down a little bit than by protesting. It's interesting how radicalizing the situation is becoming. People really losing their patience. Abortion ban was one thing, but tone deaf, smug, gas lighting reactions from ruling party seem to be escalating the situation. Pis' shenanigans have caused several widespread protests that have fizzled out in the end but this... feels like it could get real ugly. And loving fascists "protecting" churches because a woman with a banner might go inside is just cherry on top of this poo poo. What happened to this country. Edit: One upside is that I'm too mad to be as scared by covid as I was so far  .
sad question fucked around with this message at 19:49 on Oct 27, 2020 |
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Oct 27, 2020 19:47
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As expected, Belarusian propagandists are already clowning on Morawiecki for calling Belarusian protests a desperate cry for freedom, while condemning Polish protests as barbaric acts of aggression. Stones, glass houses, etc.
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Oct 27, 2020 19:48
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That’s a lol
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Oct 27, 2020 20:06
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Paladinus posted:As expected, Belarusian propagandists are already clowning on Morawiecki for calling Belarusian protests a desperate cry for freedom, while condemning Polish protests as barbaric acts of aggression. Stones, glass houses, etc. broken clocks and all that
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Oct 27, 2020 20:08
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So we had (at least) two instances of mad chuds wilfully driving cars into protesters (thankfully no major injuries inflicted, I believe). One of whom got a friendly escort from cops instead of even a slap on the wrist. On the other hand, I really do appreciate amounts of personal trolling of people behind the establishment, with home addresses and phone numbers flowing all over the internet. Can't say I'm not tempted to do something about now knowing the entry code to the building Ziemkiewicz lives in.
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Oct 27, 2020 20:38
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sad question posted:Edit: One upside is that I'm too mad to be as scared by covid as I was so far This all makes me kind of glad I got covid in September. One, I got it when the healthcare system was doing relatively OK and got quick testing and doctor's advice, and two, well, this. I still don't feel great, but at least I know I'm in the golden window when the chance of reinfection is super low and don't need another thing to be scared of when I go to the protest.
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Oct 27, 2020 22:54
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drat, I missed you had it. Great to hear you’re through!
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Oct 27, 2020 23:42
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Lichtenstein posted:So we had (at least) two instances of mad chuds wilfully driving cars into protesters (thankfully no major injuries inflicted, I believe). One of whom got a friendly escort from cops instead of even a slap on the wrist. Update: turns out the dude was an ABW officer.
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Oct 28, 2020 11:51
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ABW fuckers have some final destination poo poo hanging over them every time they enter a vehicle
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Oct 28, 2020 13:11
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I think it's more of a BOR thing. ABW - military intelligence, BOR - government bodyguards.
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Oct 28, 2020 14:19
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Heh what a brainfart and I don't even have corona. It's SOP now either way, ain't it?
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Oct 28, 2020 14:37
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I think so.
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Oct 28, 2020 14:50
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alex314 posted:I think it's more of a BOR thing. ABW - military intelligence, BOR - government bodyguards. Kinda close! Know you uniformed services!  BOR, now known as SOP, is indeed like the Secret Service in the US, but they’re also responsible for protecting any and all gov installations. They’re protecting politicians (poorly) but most of SOP is just dudes standing around in a booth in a forrest guarding an ammo dump. ABW is an internal security agency, used to answer to the ministry of admin and interior, now part of the special forces ministry. They’re not a part of the police structure, but they do a lot of investigative and operational work - mostly external dangers manifesting internally. AW is the external intelligence agency and used to report to the ministry of external affairs, now reports to special forces ministry. Technically its a uniformed service but you’re super unlikely to run into them actually running ops in Poland. SW and SKW are purely military intelligence and counterintelligence and report to minister of defense, as does ZW (military police). GROM is a military special unit for external threats only. CBA and CBŚ are bot police forces operating within the Police structure so they report to the chief of Police, but are outside the regional structures. CBA is anti corruption (both civil and government) and CBŚ is hard crime on country wide level. There’s also Sluzba Celna, dealing with customs, and they even have a special forces unit. SG protects the borders, but that also includes airports, seaports and all sorts of other surprising places. Polish Police follows a local administration structure, so you have Komenda Krajow, Komenda Wojewodzla, Komenda Powiatowa and your humble next door Komisariat. Ultimately they answer tot he minister of interior. The riot police (prewencja) is kinda seperate and operates on Wojewodztwo level mostly. Larger cities have their own “watch” outfits and these guys answer to the mayor and have limited physical authority. Their unlikely to get involved into any riot type situations.
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Oct 28, 2020 15:13
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Belarusian Minister of Internal Affairs explained why threatening to use lethal weapons against protesters is not scandalous at all. 'We are at war. How can we still be so slow to react? Every local policeman should know, their life and the happiness of their family depends on how quick they are going to be to draw their gun.'
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Oct 28, 2020 15:20
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Paladinus posted:Belarusian Minister of Internal Affairs explained why threatening to use lethal weapons against protesters is not scandalous at all. This sounds much less like the protesters are a lethal threat and much more like the policemen will get purged Stalin style if they don't shoot the protesters.
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Oct 28, 2020 16:02
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