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Yeah constant crits is a pretty legit goal, at least now that making Caspar one doesn’t preclude losing his War outfit in the Warrior class.
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Oct 28, 2020 14:36
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FoolyCharged posted:Because 100% crit is hilarious Crits are bad.
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Oct 28, 2020 17:03
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Rimusutera posted:Crits are bad. Actually, crits are extremely good so long as it's my units getting them.
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Oct 28, 2020 17:07
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Rimusutera posted:Crits are bad.
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Oct 28, 2020 17:27
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Crits improve player-phase action economy, but they can also cause deaths. Sometimes, one of your units will survive an enemy attack, and then that enemy will body-block his teammates, preventing further attacks. But if your units crit, they may expose themselves to extra attacks and get killed. As a result, low-to-middling crit rates are usually more a hindrance than a help, even though they’re flashy and fun. However, in Three Houses, it’s possible to get such high crit rates that you can plan for these situations in advance, and you can combine that with skills like Vantage or Alert Stance+ that negate extra enemy attacks.
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Oct 28, 2020 18:06
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What Zoran said. I was mostly being glib.
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Oct 28, 2020 18:59
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It really is satisfying to see the combat forecast and see that you get 4 attacks, but the first one will kill them anyways.
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Oct 28, 2020 19:36
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I don't think I've ever used the Hero class in any of my playthroughs. That and Holy Knight are the only ones I think I've never used. Holy Knight looks kind of garbage. White Tomefaire doesn't do anything for healing spells, right? Actually, do the Faith Level X skills do anything for healing magic, or are they really only worth equipping if you have white magic you want to attack with? I was disappointed to realize recently that the Authority Level X skills don't up the hit rate of gambits. I think I had always assumed they did and hadn't read the description carefully. I'd rather have better hit than more power for gambits since I feel like freezing groups of enemies is one of the most important things they do.
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Oct 29, 2020 01:38
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Essentially, yeah they don't help your healing spells. Some people do actually have interesting offensive spell lists in Faith though if you want to build a Seraphim nuke Lys or such.
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Oct 29, 2020 01:40
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Holy Knight Byleth is fun if you're going for a caster build since they get White Magic Avo + 20.
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Oct 29, 2020 01:58
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Holy Knight has one of the best class outfits in game, but yeah it's probably the single worst class in game. If it got Lancefaire you could shove some of your cav units in there just for the upgraded outfit (Holy Knight Ferdie is amazing looking), but yeah. Hero is just a victim of arbitrary gender locks, and weapons being freeform. It does not get enough def (in a game where def tanking isn't that possible anyway) to make up for the fact that swordmaster/assassin is just better offensively.
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Oct 29, 2020 02:02
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AlternateNu posted:Holy Knight Byleth is fun if you're going for a caster build since they get White Magic Avo + 20. Is there a reason to do that instead of using Bishop/Gremory? Those have more spell uses, and even Byleth only gets two white attack spells, right?
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Oct 29, 2020 02:04
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Move and Canto are really good, in theory. In practice I doubt it’s ever worth it for Holy Knight. Dark Knight is good though.
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Oct 29, 2020 02:10
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Gremory is genderlocked and Bishop MV in lategame with Byleth's close-range spelllist isn't fun.
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Oct 29, 2020 02:17
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Best argument for Holy Knight is a mobile healer and that's only good if they don't have Physic.
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Oct 29, 2020 02:43
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Haha what? That's also good with Physic. That's even more range coverage.
Rimusutera fucked around with this message at 04:05 on Oct 29, 2020 |
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Oct 29, 2020 04:02
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Yeah but bishop can easily get in range for it, gets 2x casts, and has +10 healing on their physics.
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Oct 29, 2020 05:43
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Rimusutera posted:Haha what? That's also good with Physic. That's even more range coverage. Three House magic system works in such a way that anyone even tangentially magic has a ton of heal spells. By the time you could get someone into Holy Knight half your army might be able to heal. And that's not even counting all the goddess rings and passive self-heal skills the game hands out like candy. The likelihood that you're army will ever be so spread out as to need a physic user to be on a horse is next to nill.
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Oct 29, 2020 06:20
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None of the above is anything I'm unware of, and non of it makes any sense as to why a Holy Knight with Physic is bad because Physic access and not just because healing is redundant which applies to dedicated healers. Having more Movement and Range options is going to give more flexibility with healing, and in fact let you have people all over the map. That only holds if you're just blobbing down a singular path on a map.
Rimusutera fucked around with this message at 16:04 on Oct 29, 2020 |
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Oct 29, 2020 15:49
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I think the main reason I've never used Holy Knight is just that Dark Knight accomplishes basically the same thing. I've never trained a caster in only Faith and not Reason, and I'd generally prefer they have Dark/Black Tomefaire over White Tomefaire. Holy Knight really needs Lancefaire or White Magic Heal +10 to set it apart from Dark Knight. That would make it a much more interesting class.
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Oct 29, 2020 17:55
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I actually think that the mastery abilities of either one or both of Priest or Bishop should have functioned as healing enhancements. It would have made going through them to Holy Knight feel less like a kick in the proverbial gut for feeling like you nerfed healing utility in exchange for combat utility, and instead become a bit of both based on how you want to customize it. Lancefaire would also be nice, maybe but I'm apathetic about the game needing more of that as the emphasis of what a class should do/be. I wish Paladin maybe had Swordfaire, or something a la that or there was a Masterclass version that did.
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Oct 29, 2020 18:14
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Going away from restricted weapons and thus needing something like -faire to encourage you to use them in each class was a mistake. 
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Oct 29, 2020 18:50
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Free class change instead of set classes per character was a mistake. I’d much rather a FE8 branching promotion system than full class change in the future but that seems unlikely...
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Oct 29, 2020 19:00
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hopeandjoy posted:Free class change instead of set classes per character was a mistake. also this.
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Oct 29, 2020 19:03
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Eimi posted:Going away from restricted weapons and thus needing something like -faire to encourage you to use them in each class was a mistake. Or they could have just... not undermined the free form unit building aspect by trying to force certain weapons on certain classes? Imagine if all those xxxfaire skills were replaced with actually interesting poo poo so that classes actually functioned distinctly from each other.
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Oct 29, 2020 19:11
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FoolyCharged posted:Or they could have just... not undermined the free form unit building aspect by trying to force certain weapons on certain classes? Imagine if all those xxxfaire skills were replaced with actually interesting poo poo so that classes actually functioned distinctly from each other. Free form unit building undermines classes to begin with.
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Oct 29, 2020 19:18
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Eimi posted:Free form unit building undermines classes to begin with. Yeah, every part of the system is at odds with itself. It really needs to be either scrapped or rebuilt from the ground up
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Oct 29, 2020 19:19
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Personally I wish the "certain classes emphasized certain weapons" aspect was done more creatively, and there's elements of that existing to an extent in 3Houses, would be cooler than so much of it just being "x or y faire skill" if the abilities were oritented towards encouraging a certain weapon but something other than flat damage. I don't think the freeform reclassing should mean there's no classes should be specialists in certain weapons though. Stuff like Swordmasters having built in Sword Avoid +20 could be more interesting than just Swordfaire. The Combat Arts like Hunters Volley are what make Snipers meaningfully viable. Some spell caster classes having more unique spells built in could help mean you could put anyone in that class and actually it feel like its properly a Dark Mage, instead of only characters with Dark Magic in their unique lists wanting to ever even thematically be in that class, so on and so forth. I dunno. I'm in favour of building upon the system than just saying it belongs in the trash or was a mistake. Its weird they arbitrarily gave each class 3 set ability slots max and limited themselves by that as well. And then Mortal Savant as a master class even randomly only uses two of those. gently caress, the class would be so much better for Hubert or Lys at least as an interesting option if it had Dark Tomefaire, but Lys only takes advantage of the Swordfaire. Rimusutera fucked around with this message at 19:41 on Oct 29, 2020 |
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Oct 29, 2020 19:39
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Playing 3H really showed me how vital the weapon triangle and weapon restrictions are. I would vastly prefer a return to the older system than continuing 3H, that only mostly works because of the school setting. Not having to worry about the triangle or restrictions makes it really easy to see what the 'best' class is through the weight of stats, and those other marginal classes now have no real way to distinguish themselves. Unique weapon arts are good, and I'd hope they'd stay, but more to differentiate similar styles of classes. Why you'd prefer sniper vs bow knight, swordmaster vs assassin, etc. than justifying the classes existence.
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Oct 29, 2020 19:49
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Zore posted:Yeah, every part of the system is at odds with itself. It really needs to be either scrapped or rebuilt from the ground up That said, the free form class system has done more to get me to replay it than anything else.
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Oct 29, 2020 19:56
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I think the main hurdle to overcome if you want to move in the direction of, say, abolishing the class structure entirely (not that any of the current posts are advocating for this, but it's a sentiment that's come up before) is the knock on effect it would have on enemy design. Having clearly defined classes is important for communicating to the player what they can expect from a given enemy, not just in terms of weapons but also general stat trends. Even if you don't go nuts making every enemy a bespoke custom unit and instead keep them broadly in line with the archetypes that players have come to expect, you're still losing that concise visual indicator that a named class represents. The other option, I suppose, is to give you full customizing power for your own units, but preserve the traditional class system for enemies. This is a relatively functional solution, but FE has always predicated itself largely on the illusion of symmetry even when it doesn't actually exist, and "classes for enemies only" feels like it undermines that. I think the least bad way to handle something like this would be to have a campaign where you're fighting primarily nonhuman foes, and then free up the design space to go full custom bespoke artisanal for the few human opponents you do face.
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Oct 29, 2020 20:22
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Yeah its a particularly huge benefit that the skill combinations on Maddening are consistent to class type makes it easy to memorize. Leaving room for some Conquest like design around enemy compositions having interesting skills without needing to check perpetually. Snipers have Vantage+ Poison Strike? Gotcha. Warlocks got seal defence? Roger that. I wouldn't be against the next game, especially a remake, not going full reclassing freeform syndrome and scalling back but I think the Freeform system is appealing to enough people and has had enough praise sung that they're gonna continue to fiddle with it.
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Oct 29, 2020 20:32
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This discussion made me realize that yeah, all Holy Knight actually needed to feel good would be to replace the possibly most useless skill in the game, Terrain Resistance, with some other white magic related ability and they're good. terrain resistance feels like a skill from an entirely different game with actually present terrain hazards that got left over into 3H and nobody cared to change it.
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Oct 29, 2020 21:05
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Amppelix posted:This discussion made me realize that yeah, all Holy Knight actually needed to feel good would be to replace the possibly most useless skill in the game, Terrain Resistance, with some other white magic related ability and they're good. The only terrain hazards in the game are what, the lava in the Aiell map and the spike traps the Arianrhod map?
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Oct 29, 2020 21:08
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There are also burning tiles, including the ones made by the Blaze gambit. But Blaze never has friendly fire damage.
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Oct 29, 2020 21:11
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White Magic Line rework ideas: Priest gives Heal+10 or something as an assignable skill or Miracle. Miracle is very silly in a game with Divine Pulse though. Bishop either gives Heal+10/insert better number if Priest gives Miracle or something else thats whatever. Hell maybe Terrain Resistence. Maybe Renewal. War Monk is in the base game, is axe focused, and gives Renewal on mastery if Bishop doesn't or something useful. Idk. Its a weird side pick up for really tanky Fortress Knight builds now. Holy Knight is a master class and is mostly as is minus Terrain Resistence for ???. You grind out Priest or Bishop if you want more effective healing, or just enjoy a tanky paladin that maybe has some healing access. Insert a bunch of other changes that properly fix the ramifications of my madness here.
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Oct 29, 2020 21:23
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please, the game already has like 10 axe classes, we don't need more
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Oct 29, 2020 21:30
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Amppelix posted:please, the game already has like 10 axe classes, we don't need more Fine. Delete Wyvern Rider/Lord
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Oct 29, 2020 21:42
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Amppelix posted:This discussion made me realize that yeah, all Holy Knight actually needed to feel good would be to replace the possibly most useless skill in the game, Terrain Resistance, with some other white magic related ability and they're good. Doesn't terrain resistance also make it so your move is not reduced by like sand and trees or is that a different ability?
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Oct 29, 2020 21:57
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Epi Lepi posted:Doesn't terrain resistance also make it so your move is not reduced by like sand and trees or is that a different ability? Does Assassin have Terrain Resistance? Because the Assassin always has full move.
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Oct 29, 2020 22:02
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