|
mastershakeman posted:do 2 2nd rounders and a 3rd rounder on interior lineman + 2 more 2nd rounders on TEs not count? one would think there'd be a run game with all of that Honestly, Whitehair and Daniel are the only guys who have been worth a drat. The fact that we haven't taken a tackle in the first three rounds in over a decade is a problem. Anything after that is a crapshoot. You don't get All-Pro talent in the sixth round. I also don't buy that there weren't good lineman available. For all the supposed dearth of talent, other teams seem to have found good players. Instead, we trade up for the likes of Leonard Floyd. I honestly thought we'd be building our team more like the Saints when we got Pace. They seem to grab at least one offensive lineman in the first three rounds every year.
|
#
?
Oct 27, 2020 17:00
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 12, 2024 19:33 |
|
|
I haven't seen an article this brutal towards a NFC North team in years 😬 https://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2020/10/23/21529778/minnesota-vikings-collapse-terrible-trade-kirk-cousins-contract quote:The Vikings’ rotten, precipitous collapse will take years to correct
|
|
#
?
Oct 27, 2020 17:01
|
|
|
the bears traded up for floyd? *flood of memories come back* aaaaaaAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
|
|
#
?
Oct 27, 2020 17:01
|
|
|
mastershakeman posted:the bears traded up for floyd? *flood of memories come back* aaaaaaAAAAAAA Why are you complaining, he had a good sack last night.
|
|
#
?
Oct 27, 2020 17:16
|
|
|
Pace apparently loves trading up for mediocre guys.
|
|
#
?
Oct 27, 2020 17:32
|
|
|
I want to see protestors with placards chanting "NO MORE PLAYCALLING" in front of Nagy's house
|
|
#
?
Oct 27, 2020 17:55
|
|
|
The Athletic posted:Nagy didn’t quite know what to make of Griese’s comments when they were read to him over Zoom after the game.
|
|
#
?
Oct 27, 2020 18:15
|
|
|
That's my mistake then. Regarding the fact that the Packers o-line is good. I just must have been mis-remembering other posters complaints or something? So I guess 3 of 4 teams have trash lines in the north.SKULL.GIF posted:I haven't seen an article this brutal towards a NFC North team in years 😬 I really think this is overstating things. Its not an overstatement to say they're trapped in some bad contracts and bad front office decisions...but just like this is some insanely epic terrible thing that could only happen to the vikings. The upside of the Vikings right now is historically they are all things considered relatively competently run. They've definitely made mistakes on personnel and had down years but they've rebounded. They are not an absolute trash fire that is lead by a moribund front office. They finished last in the NFC North in 2010 and 2011 seasons. They had a five year stretch in that run where they made the wildcard once and lost. Unfortunately this type of stuff happens. They might have a few down years. Its remarkable how fast a team can turn around when they get a few decent drafts and maybe, just maybe, the Vikings get lucky and draft a really good young QB. Who knows. But they simply guessed wrong on a few things and now they're sort of trapped.
|
|
#
?
Oct 27, 2020 18:17
|
|
|
Bird in a Blender posted:Pace apparently loves trading up for mediocre guys. I've been trying to decide how I feel about Montgomery and part of my rant on the offensive line is solely based on his advanced rushing numbers. SKULL.GIF posted:I haven't seen an article this brutal towards a NFC North team in years 😬 Most of the points made here are pretty dumb. You can't resign everyone in the NFL and while it definitely isn't a good thing to flip your top three corners Zimmer has a pretty well -established history of flipping talent on that side of the ball and making it work. As for the Vikings believing they can replace Diggs, Jefferson has looked good. Is he equally good? No, but if other things had worked out for the Vikings this year, the loss of Diggs probably wouldn't have been a dealbreaker for their season. Even the Cousins thing is a lot of hindsight. A lot of smart football people thought just surrounding him with a strong set of skill position players would put him over the hump. They were wrong. Don't get me wrong, the Vikings are hosed short-term because of that Cousins contract, but their decision making process clearly followed a plan that has worked for them in the past.
|
|
#
?
Oct 27, 2020 18:31
|
|
|
adaz posted:Yeah the Packer's o-line is usually graded #1 in pass block and has been for the last 2-3 years. Run block they usually score a bit lower. Was lazy this year and didn't subscribe to PFF to check and see. I’m sure continuity helps a bit with this right? Seems like packers had been trotting out the same LT, RT and center for like a decade. Trying to validate that, looks like Bakhtiari(2013), Bulaga(2010), and Linsley(2014). Bulaga was a 1st rounder and the other two were 4th and 5th. Not sure about their guards, but those three names had been so consistently...there, for the Pack Oline. A more informed fan could say whether they are good, great, or average. I don’t think the Vikings have a single lineman from their 2016 roster still on the team or active. Not saying the 2016 line was worth ‘keeping around’, but just not a lot of consistency there. Is finding a franchise OT in late rounds like Bakhtiari as big of a coup as finding a franchise QB outside of early round 1?
|
|
#
?
Oct 27, 2020 18:46
|
|
|
DoctaFun posted:I’m sure continuity helps a bit with this right? Seems like packers had been trotting out the same LT, RT and center for like a decade. Trying to validate that, looks like Bakhtiari(2013), Bulaga(2010), and Linsley(2014). Bulaga was a 1st rounder and the other two were 4th and 5th. I think finding any all pro talent in the later rounds is a big coup
|
|
#
?
Oct 27, 2020 18:58
|
|
|
Sataere posted:I've been trying to decide how I feel about Montgomery and part of my rant on the offensive line is solely based on his advanced rushing numbers. deets on these
|
|
#
?
Oct 27, 2020 19:14
|
|
|
Sataere posted:I've been trying to decide how I feel about Montgomery and part of my rant on the offensive line is solely based on his advanced rushing numbers. my advanced stat the eyeball test says that he is garbage, op
|
|
#
?
Oct 27, 2020 19:23
|
|
|
DoctaFun posted:I’m sure continuity helps a bit with this right? Seems like packers had been trotting out the same LT, RT and center for like a decade. Trying to validate that, looks like Bakhtiari(2013), Bulaga(2010), and Linsley(2014). Bulaga was a 1st rounder and the other two were 4th and 5th. Bulaga isn't on GB anymore. The line this year has dealt with a ton of injuries and reshuffling. Aside from the TB game they've been insanely good despite injuries to both tackles and guards, including kicking Billy Turner from guard to left tackle fairly successfully. The backup guard Lucas Patrick has played left guard, center and right guard. They've played three or four different players at right tackle and three or four different players at right guard so far. This year they've gotten hammered by injuries, but still have been outstanding (sans TB). Bakhtiari is a top 3 left tackle, no question, and LG Jenkins was a second round pick last year who's been nothing short of incredible. He's currently the highest drafted player by the Packers on the line. And yeah, finding a franchise tackle late is a huge coup. Hot Diggity! fucked around with this message at 19:41 on Oct 27, 2020 |
|
#
?
Oct 27, 2020 19:25
|
|
|
Sataere posted:I've been trying to decide how I feel about Montgomery and part of my rant on the offensive line is solely based on his advanced rushing numbers. I really hope he pans out, and is just getting hampered by bad blocking. The playcalling isn't helping with like 99% of his runs are up the gut behind a crap line.
|
|
#
?
Oct 27, 2020 19:34
|
|
|
Hot Diggity! posted:, and LG Jenkins was a second round pick last year who's been nothing short of incredible. He's currently the highest drafted player by the Packers on the line. Jenkins is in line to become an All-Pro. Not as good as Quenton Nelson on the Colts, of course, but it's actually shocking how fast he's acclimatized to the NFL with minimal mistakes or pain or anything.
|
|
#
?
Oct 27, 2020 19:41
|
|
|
Rooster Brooster posted:my advanced stat the eyeball test says that he is garbage, op Your eyeballs are liars! Writing my weekly fantasy football article on this and I just hate Ryan Pace more.
|
|
#
?
Oct 27, 2020 19:56
|
|
|
SKULL.GIF posted:I haven't seen an article this brutal towards a NFC North team in years 😬 Yeah this was why I was kinda bummed about that Ngakoue deal: https://twitter.com/PFF_Brad/status/1319295638178320384?s=20 you're giving him up 6 games into the season (fair, start rebuilding now and gameplan for next year) but you're losing a good player for a loss and still paying him 6mil. Coming out of an awful year is not a good time to be dropping backwards in draft order. Also double lol: https://twitter.com/AdamSchefter/status/1321193604803645448?s=20 https://twitter.com/ProFootballTalk/status/1321195277290741769?s=20
|
|
#
?
Oct 27, 2020 22:11
|
|
|
E: beaten. That's a pretty good deal
|
|
#
?
Oct 27, 2020 22:12
|
|
|
considering the cowboys currently have like the second worse defense in franchise history too poo poo's gonna get grim in dallas
|
|
#
?
Oct 27, 2020 22:16
|
|
|
https://twitter.com/packers/status/1321197569679216643 Very cool!
|
|
#
?
Oct 27, 2020 22:17
|
|
|
SKULL.GIF posted:I haven't seen an article this brutal towards a NFC North team in years 😬 This is all a bit too 'sky is falling' for me, I wouldn't call it wrong to gamble on Cousins working out (what other option has there been lately QB-wise?) and I still think the problem is the OL can't get it done against any defense worth poo poo. Zimmer has proven he can keep the defense rolling even through personnel changes, and this year is the only real failure (and there is a decent claim that's magnified by injuries) on that front.
|
|
#
?
Oct 28, 2020 00:25
|
|
|
ghosthorse posted:Yeah this was why I was kinda bummed about that Ngakoue deal: The alternative is still paying him for a full season and not getting poo poo but a comp pick in return. You aren't making the playoffs. I wish more GMs knew when to cut their losses. This trade is a sign that your GM has reasonable expectations for this year and is focused on getting you ready for next season.
|
|
#
?
Oct 28, 2020 00:39
|
|
|
the bears should fire nagy and hire jim tomsula
|
|
#
?
Oct 28, 2020 01:30
|
|
|
Vando posted:This is all a bit too 'sky is falling' for me, I wouldn't call it wrong to gamble on Cousins working out (what other option has there been lately QB-wise?) and I still think the problem is the OL can't get it done against any defense worth poo poo. Zimmer has proven he can keep the defense rolling even through personnel changes, and this year is the only real failure (and there is a decent claim that's magnified by injuries) on that front. The team isn't in the kind of terminal spin that Cleveland was in for years and that the Jets are in now. The front office has been good about finding guys in the middle to late round and the coaching has been far better than average on defense. The offense has been uneven and O-line has been below average most of the time. The team has also had a streak of uncontrollable WTF's since Zimmer got here. Everything from AD having legal issues to Teddy Bridgewater exploding to two offensive co-ordinators checking out in critical playoff games as they move on to new jobs. This year had the defensive changeover + Covid + critical injuries. How much of Cousins happiness to throw to the wrong jersey has to do with having an empty space at guard and how much of it is Don't Care, Got Paid is uncertain. The team they remind me of is the 2018 49ers. They're a solid team that is almost artificially bad. They have holes to fill but should be in a good spot to find a gamechanger on the defensive line. The team needs to address other issues, like offensive line coach but none of these are impossible.
|
|
#
?
Oct 28, 2020 02:32
|
|
|
A thing we need to remember is that this year is completely hosed by COVID. Players opting out, no OTAs, no training camp, no pre-season. Players are getting hurt in droves, games are getting rescheduled on the fly (thanks, Titans!) and everything is completely hosed up. So while some teams and situations are probably unsalvageable and everyone needs to go (Dallas, Jets), if your team isn't completely bottoming out, maybe you should wait a year and see how you do when things (hopefully) return (closer) to normal.
|
|
#
?
Oct 28, 2020 06:41
|
|
|
As a Lions fan, no.
|
|
#
?
Oct 28, 2020 07:02
|
|
|
Parallelwoody posted:As a Lions fan, no. Not to crush your dreams or anything, but I'm afraid that the Lions have managed to climb up to mediocrity. If they manage to stay there, there's every reason to think Patricia will probably get another season at least. 
|
|
#
?
Oct 28, 2020 07:58
|
|
|
the absolute worst possible outcome for the lions season is 7-9 or 8-8 and retaining patricia, so i feel like its almost totally unavoidable
|
|
#
?
Oct 28, 2020 08:13
|
|
|
I'm interested to see if they stick to their guns and poo poo can them both if they don't make the playoffs. The Griffin trade with dallas was pretty good though.
Parallelwoody fucked around with this message at 09:02 on Oct 28, 2020 |
|
#
?
Oct 28, 2020 08:14
|
|
|
Everson Griffin is going to be a latter day Robert Porcher. Book it baby, Detroit Lions first super bowl. And guess who's playing half time? Kid Rock, Big Sean, and Tyler Perry as a new singing character called "Silly Sally" (for nationwide appeal).
|
|
#
?
Oct 28, 2020 08:17
|
|
|
In which Everson Griffin sacks Baker Mayfield for the game-winning safety in Super Bowl overtime.
|
|
#
?
Oct 28, 2020 08:40
|
|
|
https://twitter.com/EversonGriffen/status/1321247976837316608
|
|
#
?
Oct 28, 2020 13:26
|
|
|
Darth Brooks posted:The team isn't in the kind of terminal spin that Cleveland was in for years and that the Jets are in now. The front office has been good about finding guys in the middle to late round and the coaching has been far better than average on defense. The offense has been uneven and O-line has been below average most of the time. The team has also had a streak of uncontrollable WTF's since Zimmer got here. Everything from AD having legal issues to Teddy Bridgewater exploding to two offensive co-ordinators checking out in critical playoff games as they move on to new jobs. Agreed that that article was very heavy on the sky is falling, but the current situation isn't as dire as the article appears. While the Cousins contract is a bad I dont think it was their worst move, which I still think is extending Rudolph and resigning Anthony Barr (who has the 3rd highest cap hit next year after Cousins and Hunter) and IMO signing Dalvin Cook though his contract is reasonable-ish, but ultimately I think their biggest issue was that most of their players came due for new contracts within two years and that is very difficult to manage when you also have to pay for a FA QB, and dont have one on a Rookie QB. Their moving on from Waynes, Rhodes and Alexander all make sense in that they underperformed last year and the cap was tight enough that bringing them back wasn't a possiblity. The new pre-season really hurt the development of the secondary, and Zimmer has an infamously difficult system to fully digest (as many CBs who have come into MIN such as Captain Munnerlyn, Mackenzie Alexander, Mike Hughes etc have stated in the past) and usually takes at least a year to get fully comfortable. Compound that with Michael Pierce opting out, and Hunter going out for a season with injury and that has seriously hurt their ability. But even with all of that, if they do go for a rebuild, there is enough talent around the team where I would imagine that 2021 could also be a down year, but then their cap situation opens up considerably (assuming they cut Cousins which would free up 35 million). Also everyone maligning the Cousins extension forgets that it was basically a must do move as it did open up a good amount of cap flexibility for a year or two. Im guessing for next year Reiff will be cut/traded, Rudolph will be cut/traded, Anthony Harris wont be resigned and either Barr or Thielen (or both!) will get their contracts restructured which according to overthecap will put them about 22 mil under the reduced cap next year, and if they cut Cousins, and the cap increases as expected in 2022 would give them around 82 million to play with. This season is obviously lost, its not something that they will take multiple years to fix (unless you wanna be a pedant about 2 years being multiple). Also Im confused as to the articles claim that they have invested substantial draft capital each of the past 4 years on olineman. As in 2016 they dropped a late 3rd round pick on Pat Elflein, which isn't that much on a guard tbh. (or a 4th on Dru Samia which is even less so.) In the mean time, keep putting the rookie CBs out there, let Ezra Cleveland play LT, move Reiff to G, and rotate in some of the other guys at FS to see if there is anything there for next year. Also keep feeding the ball to Justin Jefferson he seems really good and him winning OROY would be cool.
|
|
#
?
Oct 28, 2020 15:52
|
|
|
OxySnake posted:Agreed that that article was very heavy on the sky is falling, but the current situation isn't as dire as the article appears. I suppose the Hershel Walker trade *was* worse... IMHO, both moves were horrible for similar reasons. In both cases, the execs became convinced that they were "one piece away" and then paid a kings ransom for something that looked like that piece. The problem is that this isn't the way football works. Worse, in both cases, the actual moves they made were closer to (below average) --> (above average) than to (below average) --> (elite). I think the article is correct that the original sin has been forcing a long string of other moves...such that the overall effect will extend long past Cousins's tenure.
|
|
#
?
Oct 28, 2020 17:14
|
|
|
I mean when you have a team that went to the NFCC, and your returning options are a one legged Sam Bradford and Case Keenum generally speaking your are a QB away, and you will pay through the nose for a QB on the FA market. Even an average to above average one. I guess im confused as to how football should work? Especially for QBs? How often does a QB come on the market so you can go from Below Average -> Elite? Tom Brady this year, maybe, Peyton Manning in 2013.... Maybe Rivers this year as well? Brees in 2006? Plus like I said, most of these moves can be overcome by 2022.
|
|
#
?
Oct 28, 2020 17:39
|
|
|
Would you rather be the vikings or bears right now Vikings at least seem to be able to develop WRs and have a great young RB who's always banged up , neither team has a plan at QB
|
|
#
?
Oct 28, 2020 17:40
|
|
|
I would rather be the Bears; their defense is actually functioning.
|
|
#
?
Oct 28, 2020 17:41
|
|
|
OxySnake posted:Plus like I said, most of these moves can be overcome by 2022. I mean, there's still the matter of finding the next QB.
|
|
#
?
Oct 28, 2020 17:41
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 12, 2024 19:33 |
|
|
mastershakeman posted:Would you rather be the vikings or bears right now Vikings because its better to have one good QB season every decade than zero good QB seasons ever.
|
|
#
?
Oct 28, 2020 17:43
|
|