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Xik
Mar 10, 2011

Dinosaur Gum

Literally how it used to go, so now when asked "are you free" will reply "chat yes, voice no" or "yeah sure" if I'm prepared for either.

I mean, if I'm already in a meeting then I can't literally talk to you, but it's probably boring enough to be able to multi-task some simple questions over chat.

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Carbon dioxide
Oct 9, 2012

downout posted:

Ya'll need kids. I welcome coworkers interruptions over the kids every 15 minutes "can you come HERE? I need xxxxxx!"

But seriously there is no perfect way to do it. I start some conversations with "Morning/Afternoon <persons name>, *some useful, concise words*." I think it makes it a little more personable in times of 100% remote work.

Did you know that in the precoronal era, people would go to buildings called "offices" to work. They were places were kids weren't allowed in so you didn't have any distractions.

It's true! I saw a History Channel documentary about it once.

Woebin
Feb 6, 2006

Carbon dioxide posted:

Did you know that in the precoronal era, people would go to buildings called "offices" to work. They were places were kids weren't allowed in so you didn't have any distractions.

It's true! I saw a History Channel documentary about it once.
Lol, "no distractions". Either that documentary's about the time before office landscapes or it's thinly veiled propaganda.

prom candy
Dec 16, 2005

Only I may dance

Carbon dioxide posted:

you didn't have any distractions.

*cue two managers having an extremely loud conversation in an open office full of designers and developers trying to focus*

Volmarias
Dec 31, 2002

EMAIL... THE INTERNET... SEARCH ENGINES...
Manager just repeating as you're trying to fix a critical issue, like a child in a car

"IS IT FIXED YET?"

No.

"IS IT FIXED YET?"

No.

"IS IT FIXED YET?"

No.

"IS IT FIXED YET?"

I SWEAR, STEVE, IF YOU DON'T JUST WAIT FOR ME TO GIVE YOU A STATUS UPDATE I WILL TURN THIS CHAIR RIGHT AROUND AND GO HOME.

Bruegels Fuckbooks
Sep 14, 2004

Now, listen - I know the two of you are very different from each other in a lot of ways, but you have to understand that as far as Grandpa's concerned, you're both pieces of shit! Yeah. I can prove it mathematically.

Piano Maniac posted:

Man I was having a google meets call with my coworkers yesterday (since both me and my wife were working from home).
Anyway my coworker needed some help making some dumb-rear end excel sheet for a report and he just couldn't handle writing poo poo like "we found this error, fixed in this branch (link to merge request). Merging is done."
So I told my coworker to stop loving around, let's pick up the pace and get it done within an hour. So I did most of the heavy lifting and got the drat report done within 20 mins.

The call ended and my wife just asked "why are your coworkers so useless?"

I sighed heavily. I think it's time to switch jobs...

This is why I only like stuff like pair programming and group work in theory, because almost everyone I've ever paired with or done group work with will either play deadline chicken or just pretend to be useless and I end up doing most of the work.

ChickenWing
Jul 22, 2010

:v:

"Hey, got a minute?" if I need them to be present for a conversation


"Hey, <question>" if it's a one off


I'm an unabashed message dribbler because if I try and write a whole rear end message I'm gonna get stuck in an edit loop

beuges
Jul 4, 2005
fluffy bunny butterfly broomstick

ChickenWing posted:

"Hey, got a minute?" if I need them to be present for a conversation


"Hey, <question>" if it's a one off


I'm an unabashed message dribbler because if I try and write a whole rear end message I'm gonna get stuck in an edit loop

On the other hand, preparing the entire question ahead of time, including adding as much context as possible, has often led me to figure out the answer myself without having to actually send the message out. If I were a dribbler I’d send a bunch of disjointed messages only to end off with ‘oh nm I figured it out already’.

Ruggan
Feb 20, 2007
WHAT THAT SMELL LIKE?!


beuges posted:

On the other hand, preparing the entire question ahead of time, including adding as much context as possible, has often led me to figure out the answer myself without having to actually send the message out. If I were a dribbler I’d send a bunch of disjointed messages only to end off with ‘oh nm I figured it out already’.

Yeah. Put enough time to compose a full thought and they often figure out the solution in the process.

ChickenWing
Jul 22, 2010

:v:

fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck I joined a new team a couple of weeks ago and the other Sr. on the team and I are butting heads on basically everything and I am torn between not wanting to be That Guy who comes into a team and says "no no you're doing everything wrong sillies :)" and wanting to be confident in stuff I've previously learned and :tizzy:

Smugworth
Apr 18, 2003

ChickenWing posted:

fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck I joined a new team a couple of weeks ago and the other Sr. on the team and I are butting heads on basically everything and I am torn between not wanting to be That Guy who comes into a team and says "no no you're doing everything wrong sillies :)" and wanting to be confident in stuff I've previously learned and :tizzy:

The fact that you are having this personal quandary is a good indicator that you probably aren't totally insufferable, if that helps.

Ruggan
Feb 20, 2007
WHAT THAT SMELL LIKE?!


Smugworth posted:

The fact that you are having this personal quandary is a good indicator that you probably aren't totally insufferable, if that helps.

username / topic combo

prom candy
Dec 16, 2005

Only I may dance
The LinkedIn api is a giant piece of poo poo, in case anyone was curious

ChickenWing
Jul 22, 2010

:v:

prom candy posted:

The LinkedIn api is a giant piece of poo poo, in case anyone was curious

good to know it's not an outlier on the platform

Smugworth posted:

The fact that you are having this personal quandary is a good indicator that you probably aren't totally insufferable, if that helps.

it does a bit, thanks

being a senior is weird because now I don't have a lot of immediate coworkers that I can just sorta defer to in times of crisis and I gotta say, I don't love it

YanniRotten
Apr 3, 2010

We're so pretty,
oh so pretty

ChickenWing posted:

good to know it's not an outlier on the platform


it does a bit, thanks

being a senior is weird because now I don't have a lot of immediate coworkers that I can just sorta defer to in times of crisis and I gotta say, I don't love it

All truly great seniors understand the value of delegating the stuff you can’t figure out to people on your team who can’t say no.

Macichne Leainig
Jul 26, 2012

by VG

ChickenWing posted:

good to know it's not an outlier on the platform

So, in summary

prom candy posted:

LinkedIn is a giant piece of poo poo

ChickenWing
Jul 22, 2010

:v:

"Two Hours Is Too Long For Retro" Says Man Who Spent An Hour And Fifteen Minutes Talking About A Single Point At Retro

ChickenWing
Jul 22, 2010

:v:

YanniRotten posted:

All truly great seniors understand the value of delegating the stuff you can’t figure out to people on your team who can’t say no.

gently caress that I am a senior and by god I take full responsibility for every problem that ever has existed or will exist on my project :colbert:

Pile Of Garbage
May 28, 2007



When I finally got that senior bump I assumed that I'd be able to gently caress poo poo up on a significantly larger scale but so far it has been disappointing.

vonnegutt
Aug 7, 2006
Hobocamp.
Does anyone have any favorite books / resources about analytics / metrics? I've been looking around but everything seems to be focused on marketing stuff like conversion rates. I'm more interested in gathering data about frequency of errors, size of queries, that sort of thing. Is there different terminology I should be using?

ultrafilter
Aug 23, 2007

It's okay if you have any questions.


A lot of that falls under the umbrella of telemetry. That's more general than engineering, but if you refine your search a bit, you should get relevant hits.

Xguard86
Nov 22, 2004

"You don't understand his pain. Everywhere he goes he sees women working, wearing pants, speaking in gatherings, voting. Surely they will burn in the white hot flames of Hell"
"observability" is a good key word too. Often paired with DevOps and SRE.

Vulture Culture
Jul 14, 2003

I was never enjoying it. I only eat it for the nutrients.

vonnegutt posted:

Does anyone have any favorite books / resources about analytics / metrics? I've been looking around but everything seems to be focused on marketing stuff like conversion rates. I'm more interested in gathering data about frequency of errors, size of queries, that sort of thing. Is there different terminology I should be using?
Start with the Google SRE book
https://landing.google.com/sre/sre-book/toc/index.html

feedmegin
Jul 30, 2008

Cugel the Clever posted:

How can I persuade people to formulate a single coherent message that they can then send in its entirety in chat instead of a slow, drawn-out stream of consciousness over a series of messages? I've tried telling folks that they don't need to start a query with just "Hi" and await response before proceeding to their specific question/thought, but it just doesn't stick.

I've had some coworkers get grumpy when I do this, and some coworkers get grumpy when I don't do this :shrug: Can't win really.

LLSix
Jan 20, 2010

The real power behind countless overlords

Work shipped me the hardware to work on, but none of the accessories it needs. So I've got a fun little Jetson nano sitting on my desk but no power cables, usb-cables, or even a large enough SD card to hold the SDK. Oops.

My favorite part about this story is, I asked for all this stuff 3 weeks ago. I'm trying to make this screwup productive by adding a list of essential components to the onboarding document for this product.

LLSix fucked around with this message at 04:19 on Oct 27, 2020

ChickenWing
Jul 22, 2010

:v:

LLSix posted:

Work shipped me the hardware to work on, but none of the accessories it needs. So I've got a fun little Jetson nano sitting on my desk but no power cables, usb-cables, or even a large enough SD card to hold the SDK. Oops.

My favorite part about this story is asked for all this stuff 3 weeks ago. I'm trying to make this screwup productive by adding a list of essential components to the onboarding document for this product.

Using a delay to rewrite onboarding documentation is great because you get to be productive and ever so slightly passive aggressive towards your team/company :sun:

Vulture Culture
Jul 14, 2003

I was never enjoying it. I only eat it for the nutrients.

LLSix posted:

Work shipped me the hardware to work on, but none of the accessories it needs. So I've got a fun little Jetson nano sitting on my desk but no power cables, usb-cables, or even a large enough SD card to hold the SDK. Oops.

My favorite part about this story is asked for all this stuff 3 weeks ago. I'm trying to make this screwup productive by adding a list of essential components to the onboarding document for this product.
Not sure about more modern Jetsons, but the older TK1s used a 5.5mm OD/2.1mm ID barrel jack connector at 12V, the kind of thing you probably have lying around somewhere already. I've got a whole pile of adjustable power supplies with swappable 2.1mm tips.

SD is fine, but NFS also works great. The thing will even boot PXE if you play with the U-Boot params to put it above the eMMC in the boot order.

Vulture Culture fucked around with this message at 04:09 on Oct 27, 2020

captkirk
Feb 5, 2010

vonnegutt posted:

Does anyone have any favorite books / resources about analytics / metrics? I've been looking around but everything seems to be focused on marketing stuff like conversion rates. I'm more interested in gathering data about frequency of errors, size of queries, that sort of thing. Is there different terminology I should be using?

What are you looking for? The theory? Or like, "yo! implement this OSS project for much glory!"

vonnegutt
Aug 7, 2006
Hobocamp.

captkirk posted:

What are you looking for? The theory? Or like, "yo! implement this OSS project for much glory!"

A general overview? Best practices I guess?

I'm on a project that is maturing (as in, has customers who have expectations) and we don't have a dedicated team keeping an eye on how things are running. There's a lot of "wait for customer to report issue and then grep logs for likely suspects" which is not efficient. In the past I was either working for startups with no customers (or so few that you could just read logs to see how things were going), or large companies that had dedicated reliability teams that I was not part of. This is a big hole in my knowledge - I've spent my career building things and not so much maintaining them.

The Google SRE suggestion Vulture Culture made was an excellent resource. Already started implementing a way to get some of our errors propagating into our ticketing system.

captkirk
Feb 5, 2010

vonnegutt posted:

A general overview? Best practices I guess?

I'm on a project that is maturing (as in, has customers who have expectations) and we don't have a dedicated team keeping an eye on how things are running. There's a lot of "wait for customer to report issue and then grep logs for likely suspects" which is not efficient. In the past I was either working for startups with no customers (or so few that you could just read logs to see how things were going), or large companies that had dedicated reliability teams that I was not part of. This is a big hole in my knowledge - I've spent my career building things and not so much maintaining them.

The Google SRE suggestion Vulture Culture made was an excellent resource. Already started implementing a way to get some of our errors propagating into our ticketing system.

The SRE book is good, there are some additional books (SRE Workbook, Pursuing SRE) which could also be helpful. There's also Implementing Service Level Objectives which I can't fully recommend yet as I haven't finished it but if you aren't satisfied with the treatment of SLI/SLO in the SRE book, it does have a more thorough treatment.

As you're diving into the land of observability you should keep your eye on three arms of observability:

1) metrics - what most folks think of as monitoring: collecting numeric data over time.

2) logging - stuff your logs somewhere, ideally centralized that you can easily search and do analysis on.

3) tracing - this is the arm that is often ignore because it can difficult to implement and to train developers to make effective use of (there is an O'Reilly book, Distributed Tracing in Practice, which I can half recommend)


Metrics and logging in particular are likely to result in monitors/alerts being set up to notify admins/devs/sres/whatevers. You should make sure to give thought to how your folks get notified (e-mail is probably the wrong choice, it's not interruptive enough and it's easy to lose alerts in the noise of your inbox) and make sure you're watching out for alert fatigue.

vonnegutt
Aug 7, 2006
Hobocamp.
Thanks, that seems like exactly what I'm looking for. We just got logs centralized in Kubernetes and spent some time tuning them to make them easier to query - which is when I realized that there is a lot I can probably figure out how to do but I had no real idea what I should be doing.

kitten emergency
Jan 13, 2008

get meow this wack-ass crystal prison

captkirk posted:

3) tracing - this is the arm that is often ignore because it can difficult to implement and to train developers to make effective use of (there is an O'Reilly book, Distributed Tracing in Practice, which I can half recommend)

what’s the half you can’t recommend? (I’m one of the authors)

captkirk
Feb 5, 2010

kitten emergency posted:

what’s the half you can’t recommend? (I’m one of the authors)

Wait, does your CEO currently sport a ZZ top beard?

kitten emergency
Jan 13, 2008

get meow this wack-ass crystal prison

captkirk posted:

Wait, does your CEO currently sport a ZZ top beard?

not really ZZ Top length no

kitten emergency
Jan 13, 2008

get meow this wack-ass crystal prison
but seriously I’m thinking about taking some time next year to write errata and maybe do a second edition so if you have any feedback I’d love to hear it

captkirk
Feb 5, 2010

kitten emergency posted:

not really ZZ Top length no

We might work for the same company... anyway! It seems like a fine book, I just can't recommend the second half. Because I haven't read it yet.

kitten emergency
Jan 13, 2008

get meow this wack-ass crystal prison

captkirk posted:

We might work for the same company... anyway! It seems like a fine book, I just can't recommend the second half. Because I haven't read it yet.

:stare:

kitten emergency
Jan 13, 2008

get meow this wack-ass crystal prison
although you know there’s a bunch of companies that have ceos with ZZ Top beards

Munkeymon
Aug 14, 2003

Motherfucker's got an
armor-piercing crowbar! Rigoddamndicu𝜆ous.



If y'all work at Twitter, tell the web UI teams they suck TIA

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marumaru
May 20, 2013



if you work at reddit and you have anything to do with their new site, i really don't like you

even though all that poo poo seems like it comes straight from a suit's mouth

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