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Reclaimer posted:What if Allison makes it to the top and murders the concept of Cruelty? Just cuts it out of all realities. I mean I feel like Zoss didn't really use his supergod powers very intelligently if he left in all this bad code. What concept would you guys cut out of the unreal and make real? also there are more than 36 lessons but you have to get all the books together and find the secret lessons through some cyphers and stuff like that. this is the first time i've been six billionposting while an update hit it's kinda crazy
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Oct 31, 2020 04:50
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1: the "good king" solomon saves himself at the expense of his own innocent people. He could have blocked that and chose not to. 2: tag yourself i'm the dead existing as some holographic imprint on the membrane that marks the border between the already-extinct world that is now and Jagganoth's world to come.
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Oct 31, 2020 04:54
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SniperWoreConverse posted:1: the "good king" solomon saves himself at the expense of his own innocent people. He could have blocked that and chose not to. You don't know that. Jaggonoth is powerful enough that all the other demiurges together still fear him. He's probably the one thing in existence that could kill Solomon, aside from a competent master key holder.
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Oct 31, 2020 05:18
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Given the Buddhist influence on K6BD, I'm guessing talk of cycles and wheels is a direct reference to the Wheel of Samsara/cycle of suffering and rebirth. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sa%E1%B9%83s%C4%81ra_(Buddhism)
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Oct 31, 2020 05:49
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Reclaimer posted:What if Allison makes it to the top and murders the concept of Cruelty? Just cuts it out of all realities. I mean I feel like Zoss didn't really use his supergod powers very intelligently if he left in all this bad code. That may be for the best, since the character with the infinite hubris to believe that he can remake the universe better is presently explaining why massive civilian casualties are no big deal. Reclaimer posted:Why do the demiurges all act like this is the first time Zoss has ever had an heir? Why do they never talk about having dealt with heirs in the past? Why did we watch Zoss literally die in the first sequence of the comic if there are one or more heirs between him and Allison?
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Oct 31, 2020 05:55
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Schwarzwald posted:okay but Jags being the blade as in "cutting the gordian knot" makes a whole lot of sense with the recent page Highly amusing alt text on this one.
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Oct 31, 2020 06:13
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Allison asking the real questions.
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Oct 31, 2020 06:31
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Ah, yes, now it's Allison's turn to learn the lesson that Meti (almost) taught Maya. Just with a city instead of a rat.
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Oct 31, 2020 06:38
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PMush Perfect posted:Ah, yes, now it's Allison's turn to learn the lesson that Meti (almost) taught Maya. Just with a city instead of a rat. I think you'll find Solomon just failed that lesson, considering he did nothing to deflect or block that strike.
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Oct 31, 2020 06:42
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drat, if Dave's already up for a round 2 this quick (and with this kind of speed) it kinda makes me feel like he might've thrown the fight with WC.
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Oct 31, 2020 06:44
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Jagganoth is explicitly not someone any of the six can beat alone. Saying ‘actually Solomon should have blocked that bullet with his face’ is very silly. Blame Jagganoth for the mega deaths he’s going to do, not Solomon. Blame Solomon for letting poo poo get to this point because he wanted his seventh of Creation. Also the point of Meti’s lesson wasn’t blocking it was preemptive murder, sadly inapplicable to the invulnerable Red God.
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Oct 31, 2020 06:52
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TwoPair posted:drat, if Dave's already up for a round 2 this quick (and with this kind of speed) it kinda makes me feel like he might've thrown the fight with WC. The fight was until WC died or surrendered, or she drew his blood. Technically she didn't succeed at the latter, but she did punch him in the face and that was as good as winning as it would have make Solomon look extremely petty in front of his people to go, "Well technically," and/or just kill her after that display.
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Oct 31, 2020 06:54
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Joe Slowboat posted:Jagganoth is explicitly not someone any of the six can beat alone. The point of Meti's lesson was that if you want to something to live, it's not enough to leave it be, you have to actually do something to protect it. Solomon's got a big angry giant who nuked his way into his capital city, and has made clear that they intend to kill everything as they please. Solomon chose to dodge and ignore a dangerous attack from that threat rather than do anything to consider what else it might destroy.
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Oct 31, 2020 06:59
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Neddy Seagoon posted:The point of Meti's lesson was that if you want to something to live, it's not enough to leave it be, you have to actually do something to protect it. Solomon's got a big angry giant who nuked his way into his capital city, and has made clear that they intend to kill everything as they please. Solomon chose to dodge and ignore a dangerous attack from that threat rather than do anything to consider what else it might destroy. No, that’s missing a crucial element of Meti’s lesson. If you want to save the rat you need to be prepared to strike down your peer with every ounce of your strength. You can’t just generically protect people. Sword Law says either the rat dies or Incubus. This is the dilemma of the comic - how do you restrain an all-encompassing power of violence without just becoming a tyrant yourself? How do you build a better world that isn’t rooted in killing and being the best at killing? The point is to transcend Sword Law, which Meti never did or she’d have been a noodle merchant. Solomon did not have an easy option to simply Stop Jagganoth.
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Oct 31, 2020 07:05
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Joe Slowboat posted:No, that’s missing a crucial element of Meti’s lesson. If you want to save the rat you need to be prepared to strike down your peer with every ounce of your strength. The man who has spent his entire life in the pursuit of Royalty, the self-proclaimed Paternum and protector of the Celestial Empire, standing in his own capital under siege?
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Oct 31, 2020 07:14
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I assume that if Solomon could've blocked or deflected that strike, he would have.
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Oct 31, 2020 07:17
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Yeah, seriously. If there’s one thing Solomon David isn’t, it’s afraid to prove his might by using it to protect and awe his people. If the theory was ‘he can no-sell that but chose not to’ - how does that fit his deal, at all?
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Oct 31, 2020 07:29
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Super late to time-loop talk, but the exact words Juggs uses - 'spin the wheel and laugh at god' - is straight up the name of the move in the K6BD RPG that lets you turn back time.
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Oct 31, 2020 07:31
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Rotten Red Rod posted:You don't know that. Jaggonoth is powerful enough that all the other demiurges together still fear him. He's probably the one thing in existence that could kill Solomon, aside from a competent master key holder. he could have ki rata'd into poking the sword hand one inch over and redirecting the blast or some poo poo like this. Solomon is crap and a garbage lord of trash. TwoPair posted:drat, if Dave's already up for a round 2 this quick (and with this kind of speed) it kinda makes me feel like he might've thrown the fight with WC. i was gonna make a "giving lover" joke but got disgusted by the idea so i'm gonna post that i had an idea that disgusts me Joe Slowboat posted:Jagganoth is explicitly not someone any of the six can beat alone. if solomon was a Real Good Paturnal Dad he would have done it without even thingking about consequences Neddy Seagoon posted:The point of Meti's lesson was that if you want to something to live, it's not enough to leave it be, you have to actually do something to protect it. Solomon's got a big angry giant who nuked his way into his capital city, and has made clear that they intend to kill everything as they please. Solomon chose to dodge and ignore a dangerous attack from that threat rather than do anything to consider what else it might destroy. ye Joe Slowboat posted:No, that’s missing a crucial element of Meti’s lesson. If you want to save the rat you need to be prepared to strike down your peer with every ounce of your strength. welp if you can't protect your empire apparently you're a weak idiot baby like solomon who loving sucks and is poo poo
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Oct 31, 2020 08:00
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I think we've established that Solomon is Not The Best, but if stopping Jagganoth from loving things up was within his personal span of control, Dave wouldn't have spent the last few books threatening, cajoling, and begging the other demiurges to take the possibility of having to team up against Jaggs seriously. He's already ordered the city evacuated anyway. Dave's fury may well be that Jagganoth is wrecking Dave's prized possession, the symbol of Dave's wisdom and power, and he's utterly impotent to make him stop. Dead Reckoning fucked around with this message at 08:40 on Oct 31, 2020 |
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Oct 31, 2020 08:30
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The point isn't that Daniel probably couldn't block Jagg's swing without dying immediately, the point is that Don's HARD MAN MAKING HARD DECISIONS justification for ruling did nothing to change how he could not protect his citizens from being obliterated by Jagganoth. Like drat people simping for Soloman hard lmao.
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Oct 31, 2020 09:02
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To say that he "let" Jagganoth blow up that neighborhood is to suppose that he's actually in control of this situation, which he obviously is not despite all his pretensions and grandstanding.
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Oct 31, 2020 09:13
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Bongo Bill posted:To say that he "let" Jagganoth blow up that neighborhood is to suppose that he's actually in control of this situation, which he obviously is not despite all his pretensions and grandstanding. Yeah I've been pretty clear on how much Solomon David is a person who has convinced himself change is impossible and is doing atrocities to prevent it. He's a tyrant! It's a bad thing to be! But right now, this is change for the burning and the dying, and the time to prevent it was literally millennia ago. Solomon David built a system on a rotten foundation of killing, and while I find him a sympathetic monster, that's true of all the demiurges. They're about 7 different flavors of PTSD-riddled tyrant, and while at the end I thought there was a chance David could change or at least consider changing after witnessing a genuine miracle, it turns out that even his possible transformation was poisoned by his decision to rule. Jagganoth is very clear on being the incarnation of the Universal War - he is the embodiment of how they got their kingdoms, and he's come due at last. Solomon David hadn't won yet.
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Oct 31, 2020 09:24
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Bongo Bill posted:To say that he "let" Jagganoth blow up that neighborhood is to suppose that he's actually in control of this situation, which he obviously is not despite all his pretensions and grandstanding. I never said that? Ya'll seem to be harping on how Soloman wasn't powerful enough to stop Jagg, which yes, he isn't. That also means his brutal dictatorship, which he justified solely on the fact that it was the only way to protect his people, was utterly useless in actually, y'know, protecting his people in the end.
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Oct 31, 2020 09:51
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Bongo Bill posted:To say that he "let" Jagganoth blow up that neighborhood is to suppose that he's actually in control of this situation, which he obviously is not despite all his pretensions and grandstanding. No control except being immediately ready for that strike with a ki-rata technique :hmmthunk:.
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Oct 31, 2020 11:31
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Yes, the point is that, in this particular situation, at this particular time,I'm not exactly sure Abbadon is specifically having Clodoman Dumbid dodge this attack to demonstrate how his personal philosophy is directly harming his citizens, and not simply doing this to show cool scale and hype up Jagganaughty since this is the beginning of the last book, where he wants to go the full Goku. To be contrarian for a moment, Solomon might very well have a fairly good idea of Jagganoths powers, and could possibly have made the calculation that he genuinely would jeprodize his ability to dodgetank for the others, and therefore definitely gently caress over his whole empire if he doesn't put his full ability into avoiding these attacks instead of trying to touch the nuclear sword for any reason. You could possibly criticise him for that, but I'd say his failure to smack that sword shockwave into the sky in what is a genuinely dangerous situation for him is at least more understandable than the thousands of years of tyranny he demonstrated to no purpose since he is the gently caress mothering lynchpin of his empire (by his own moronic design). He might even be pretty cut up about what just happened, even if or perhaps especially because it's his fault in multiple increasingly ironic ways, but I'm not sure how much he can afford to take his eyes off his opponent. Also don't know how fast that looked to Solomon You also have to consider that Abbadon's high detail style means it would take quite a bit of time to draw a hypothetical series of panels where we either show solomon deflecting or failing to deflect the attack in ki rata time. There is a budget to these kinda things. All things considered, I'm sure he is happy we're thinking about his world so meticulously, but I don't think this is what he would have predicted readers to focus on in this particular page. Not that you can't, just that I don't think what you are saying is something Abbadon's trying to describe with the action right now. EDIT: Note I posted this all early on the morning and have been editing it since. The wordings at the very least of the second paragraph have been modified which may change how it sounds. Even though the situation is at least about 1/7th his fault, I don't think Solomon's particular brand of evil is specifically 'I'm gonna let several hundred people die to show how cool my opponent's attacks are even though I could totally have blocked/deflected that into the sky or ocean no problem' thechosenone fucked around with this message at 12:53 on Oct 31, 2020 |
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Oct 31, 2020 11:50
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Yes, I'm going to let the omnicidal maniac kill me instead of dodging the attack and letting a neighborhood get blown up to show what a good person I am. Once I'm dead the omnicidal maniac surely won't, I dunno, swing his nuke sword a second time, blowing up that neighborhood anyhow. See what a smart and good ruler I am.
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Oct 31, 2020 12:53
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Well, the point is kinda that he isn't a smart and great ruler, but that him dodging and not deflecting that attack with a pinpoint strike probably isn't something that was made to demonstrate that. Like I'm actually pretty sure if Swoles Mc Photo-op here really freaked out and went full furious dumbass, like if he had a flashback to his children and wife dying (if he hasn't already) he could probably 108 point roundhouse kick juggs into next Wednesday literally (whether that would destroy Rayuba or not is a question for Abbadon) without even thinking if that was even a thing Ki-Rata could do, but if he could pull that off with any kind of regularity, he wouldn't be the loser he is today. thechosenone fucked around with this message at 13:15 on Oct 31, 2020 |
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Oct 31, 2020 13:09
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I'm pretty sure that we're about to be shown that Jaggs is not a problem that can be solved with force, sword law, punch good, or an especially sharp rock.
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Oct 31, 2020 13:28
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Well yes, that is probably the case since it would kinda make the story fall flat if it was ONLY kung fu nonsense in the end. I don't think being invincible stops time travel bullshit though, just saying that even if it isn't gonna happen in the story that doesn't mean it's impossible. Also part of the Seven's shtick is that they are stronk as hell, but the actually nonsensical abilities of Royalty are denied to them because they are basically the opposite of being Royal. In case It was missed, I also meant precisely when I said literally, and was not using it for emphasis (as in kick him such that he is thrown forward in time to next Wednesday, regardless of if it hurts or not). It would at least buy Solomon some time to really evacuate the city and let the seven bring any implements of destruction they might not have had time for to prepare to ambush Jagganoth when next Wednesday came around. thechosenone fucked around with this message at 13:47 on Oct 31, 2020 |
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Oct 31, 2020 13:38
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I felt like this page was a subversion of the typical anime "oh you're strong? well what if I ATTACK YOUR FRIENDS!" and then the hero dives on the sword to save them, and I like that. It's a lot more like a real fight this way.
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Oct 31, 2020 13:43
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If it is, then its being subtle about pushing that idea, but the visuals certainly do say that's something that isn't going to be tried here beyond just trolling Dave if that's what you mean.
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Oct 31, 2020 13:49
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I think it will be more interesting to see what Dave does about the sword now that he knows the swing can travel all the way to shore.
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Oct 31, 2020 14:24
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The correct response to an unstoppable instakilling strike was already demonstrated by White Chain, but Solomon failed to learn that lesson.
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Oct 31, 2020 14:53
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If we're still staking out questionable time loop positions: This isn't a loop, but the Universal War was.
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Oct 31, 2020 15:05
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i'm honestly confused why you're all jumping to 'time loop' instead of just 'there are people capable of time travel and have been groundhog-daying themselves.'
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Oct 31, 2020 15:20
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Is there an important difference between "time is a loop" and "time is an illusion, let's try again till we get it right"?
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Oct 31, 2020 16:33
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Rogue AI Goddess posted:The correct response to an unstoppable instakilling strike was already demonstrated by White Chain, but Solomon failed to learn that lesson. SolDave should have manifested his own nuclear sword and struck back at Jagg, potentially tearing his soul from his body and into a new form of life? I thought it over, I agree.
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Oct 31, 2020 17:01
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World Famous W posted:Is there an important difference between "time is a loop" and "time is an illusion, let's try again till we get it right"?
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Oct 31, 2020 17:07
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I don’t think Royalty lets you instantly save the world or delete the concept of cruelty or somehow make violence work as a long-term solution to violence. Using Royalty as one would use a particularly sharp rock isn’t an improvement over using the heat of the flame immortal for that, I would think.
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Oct 31, 2020 17:43
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