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TooMuchAbstraction posted:I swear I've read that siege equipment was used to throw death people over the walls to attempt to infect the defenders with disease. Oh yeah those death people.
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Oct 31, 2020 20:14
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I like how the denizens of the besieged city are "Christians" and the Mongol forces who are probably from half a dozen different religions some of whom might be Nestorian Christians are just 'Tatars'.
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Oct 31, 2020 20:45
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wonder how big War Wolf is and why the gently caress it wasn't in Age of Kings ah God's Own Sling was based off God's Stone Thrower which was used in the Third Crusade during the siege of Acre. Bad Neighbor was also used in this siege verbal enema has a new favorite as of 21:12 on Oct 31, 2020 |
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Oct 31, 2020 21:08
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verbal enema posted:wonder how big War Wolf is and why the gently caress it wasn't in Age of Kings If you mean AOE2, it was added as a special unique technology for the English faction as part of the HD re-release.
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Oct 31, 2020 21:10
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FreudianSlippers posted:I like how the denizens of the besieged city are "Christians" and the Mongol forces who are probably from half a dozen different religions some of whom might be Nestorian Christians are just 'Tatars'. It's a quote from a contemporary source. They weren't big on ethnology back in the 1300s.
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Oct 31, 2020 21:10
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verbal enema posted:Bad Neighbor was also used in this siege That is a great name for a siege engine
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Oct 31, 2020 22:03
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FreudianSlippers posted:I like how the denizens of the besieged city are "Muslim" and the US forces who are probably from half a dozen different religions some of whom might be Nestorian Christians are just 'Americans'.
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Oct 31, 2020 22:30
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Stockholm had two cannons in the late 1400s called "The Devil" and "The Devil's mother"
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Oct 31, 2020 22:45
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While there are solid accounts of Mongols flinging things like human heads into cities, the account of the "Tatars" flinging corpses into Caffa as a form of biological warfare, the only remaining account of which comes from Gabriele de Mussi's Historia de Morbo, has come under scrutiny in recent years. No other contemporary writings concerning the siege corroborates that this happened, and de Mussi is certainly wrong in his claim that the plague spread through Italy and thus Western Europe by the fleeing survivors of Caffa. This upcoming paper on the subject asserts that the siege actually delayed the spread of plague into the city, until it was lifted and grain shipments resumed. https://osf.io/preprints/bodoarxiv/rqn8h/ quote:To conclude, the explanation usually given for the transmission of plague to western Europe in 1347, the story of plague-infested bodies catapulted over the walls of a besieged city, is based on a single text by Gabriele de’ Mussi, a Piacenzan notary with no direct knowledge of events in the Black Sea. When emphasis is placed on texts written by people who lived in or passed through the Black Sea in the 1340s, a different narrative emerges of the chronology, Kevin DuBrow has a new favorite as of 03:31 on Nov 1, 2020 |
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Oct 31, 2020 22:52
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Genghis Khan had some good ideas. Total religious freedom being one of them.
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Oct 31, 2020 22:58
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It is pretty funny the west called the mongols Tatars considering they were Ghengis biggest enemy and probably the only group that he hated on a personal level
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Oct 31, 2020 22:59
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FreudianSlippers posted:Genghis Khan had some good ideas. Genghis Khan was a liberal 
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Oct 31, 2020 23:12
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CharlestheHammer posted:It is pretty funny the west called the mongols Tatars considering they were Ghengis biggest enemy and probably the only group that he hated on a personal level Similarly, "Frank" was a blanket term for Western or Central European Christian in the Medieval Islamic world. To be fair, most crusaders would have been from France. Western Europeans were called Franjī in Arabic and Western Europe was sometimes referred to as Frangistan by Persians. "Latins" was also used in this manner. In many Asian languages Europeans/white people are still referred to by words derived from "Frank", like feringhi in Hindi or farang in Thailand. In Thailand black people are called "black farang". Kevin DuBrow has a new favorite as of 23:27 on Oct 31, 2020 |
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Oct 31, 2020 23:12
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Kevin DuBrow posted:Similarly, "Frank" was a blanket term for Western or Central European Christian in the Medieval Islamic world. To be fair, most crusaders would have been from France. Western Europeans were called Franjī in Arabic and Western Europe was sometimes referred to as Frangistan by Persians. "Latins" was also used in this manner. That made me wonder... and I looked it up, and turns out, no, it isn't a coincidence: quote:The word "Ferengi" was derived from the Arabic and Persian word faranji (written فرنجي), which meant "frank", as in the Frankish/European traders who made contact with Arabic traders; the word later came to mean "foreigner" in general, though in modern Arabic, it is generally restricted to the meaning "European".
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Oct 31, 2020 23:29
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FreudianSlippers posted:Genghis Khan had some good ideas. As my mangled body is thrown on the pyre, I'm comforted by the knowledge that my religious freedoms aren't trampled upon.
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Nov 1, 2020 01:08
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I read about how the Mongols destroyed the Middle East in a really horrible way. It wasn't due to religious reasons though, it was because they disrespected the emissaries and the Mongols really wanted to go gently caress someone up due to internal politics.
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Nov 1, 2020 01:37
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That was shah yes. Though he also masssacred a town of Mongolian merchants. Which Ghengis was really forgiving about. In fact if the Shah hadn’t been a prick the mongols probably don’t end up in Russia
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Nov 1, 2020 01:51
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A lot of problems can be avoided with respect and considering the consequences of your actions. Applies to shah and my relations with my neighbours.
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Nov 1, 2020 02:08
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System Metternich posted:Not really related to anything but execution methods, but I just remembered an account of a Soviet officer I read who was part of the Red Army forces approaching Berlin. Apparently a couple hours to the east of Berlin they suddenly saw a lone German soldier appear on a hilltop in front of them. They were about to open fire, when the officer realised that something was amiss and ordered them to stand down. The German guy just stood there, unarmed, for hours without moving at all, until he drew back at nightfall. The Soviets reckoned that for whatever reason he was supposed to get shot by them on orders of his CO - execution by proxy Maybe he was the speed bump. He delayed the Soviet unit till nightfall. verbal enema posted:Bad Neighbor was also used in this siege the catapult “Rand Paul”
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Nov 1, 2020 03:21
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Phy posted:That is a great name for a siege engine Apparently the Muslims named one of their own siege engines 'Bad Kinsman' in response. Makes a lot of sense considering these things would be huge investments in engineering and resources, and no two would be exactly alike. The Crusaders apparently also had a siege ladder they called The Cat. Carbon dioxide posted:That made me wonder... and I looked it up, and turns out, no, it isn't a coincidence: Yeah, one of the early episodes with the Ferengi has them described as 'Yankee traders', and they're actually treated as being more representative of 20th century capitalist humanity in some respects in comparison to the vaguely socialist Federation.
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Nov 1, 2020 04:10
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Kevin DuBrow posted:Similarly, "Frank" was a blanket term for Western or Central European Christian in the Medieval Islamic world. To be fair, most crusaders would have been from France. Western Europeans were called Franjī in Arabic and Western Europe was sometimes referred to as Frangistan by Persians. "Latins" was also used in this manner. iirc it's worth noting that it's not exactly because most of them were from France, it's because it's derived from the Frankish kingdom of Francia, the latin/germanic successor state to the Western Roman Empire that encompassed France, western Germany & northern Italy. Tbh, something I find interesting about Europe is that if things went differently it could have gone in the same direction as China, where it's been conquered and collapsed and reconquered and reconsolidated multiple times whilst remaining a sense of cultural and political continuity as multiple dynasties of the same 'country'. Enough European states have claimed to be the successors of Rome, and so much of the subcontinent is one big semi-forested plain, that it's easy to imagine a different history where Europe was a series of Romes broken up by interdynastic periods of conflict.
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Nov 1, 2020 11:00
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The converse is equally interesting: what if China had developed into a group of states as independent from each other as those of Europe?
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Nov 1, 2020 11:12
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Hey! No turtledoving please
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Nov 1, 2020 13:05
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I mean if global warming doesn’t drive us extinct there’s no way of knowing that the Guangdong Megacity Collective won’t be allied with the Federal Republic of Europe against Yellow River Plain, Land of the Screamers in a few centuries. China’s been divided for huge periods.
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Nov 1, 2020 15:31
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I've checked the actual accurate map of the future and China is marked 'Lion Hordes vs Mao-Tse-Tigers - Little Red Book Wars' so it looks like some division there, yep.
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Nov 1, 2020 16:21
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Unkempt posted:I've checked the actual accurate map of the future and China is marked 'Lion Hordes vs Mao-Tse-Tigers - Little Red Book Wars' so it looks like some division there, yep. I think ultimate victory will go to the kanga-rat collective
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Nov 1, 2020 17:29
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Kevin DuBrow posted:Similarly, "Frank" was a blanket term for Western or Central European Christian in the Medieval Islamic world. To be fair, most crusaders would have been from France. Western Europeans were called Franjī in Arabic and Western Europe was sometimes referred to as Frangistan by Persians. "Latins" was also used in this manner. and syphilis was called the frankish disease: 
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Nov 1, 2020 22:25
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ChubbyChecker posted:and syphilis was called the frankish disease:
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Nov 1, 2020 23:25
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Wipfmetz posted:I like how France tried to point fingers at Italy, going "Uh... uh... THEY started it". France didn’t start it, everyone just named it after whoever they fought (because soldiers would commit certain obvious war crimes as a matter of course)
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Nov 1, 2020 23:34
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I like the Scottish attitude. Let's not blame it on anyone in particular but just give it a really descriptive name. Grandgore. The drip, drip, drip, of the syphilitic prick.
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Nov 2, 2020 00:10
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:France didn’t start it, everyone just named it after whoever they fought (because soldiers would commit certain obvious war crimes as a matter of course) The actual origin of Syphilis might be a completly different story. Wipfmetz has a new favorite as of 00:34 on Nov 2, 2020 |
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Nov 2, 2020 00:31
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Wipfmetz posted:There's a pretty direct path going eastward, away from france. With a spinoff going south through the iberian peninsula. I will give you one guess as to which country brought syphilis to Europe, from the Americas, at the end of the 15th century
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Nov 2, 2020 00:33
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:I will give you one guess as to which country brought syphilis to Europe, from the Americas, at the end of the 15th century Scotland. You can tell because they had to come up with a name for it.
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Nov 2, 2020 00:37
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Red Bones posted:it's easy to imagine a different history where Europe was a series of Romes broken up by interdynastic periods of conflict. I mean, we tried.
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Nov 2, 2020 02:06
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:I will give you one guess as to which country brought syphilis to Europe, from the Americas, at the end of the 15th century So it should be called the American disease 
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Nov 2, 2020 05:45
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I thought there was recent evidence (August 2020) that Syphilis in Europe might predate the Columbian exchange: https://www.cell.com/current-biology/fulltext/S0960-9822(20)31083-6 quote:Summary
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Nov 2, 2020 10:01
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Byzantine posted:I mean, we tried. lol nice
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Nov 2, 2020 14:39
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Sulla Faex posted:I thought there was recent evidence (August 2020) that Syphilis in Europe might predate the Columbian exchange: Wipfmetz posted:Scotland. You can tell because they had to come up with a name for it. This is a good point.
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Nov 3, 2020 01:34
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This is probably something a lot of you already know but it's still a really weird fact for me, when I think about how people actually unironically behaved like this. It's not exactly clear when this practice started, but at least from medieval times forward, it was not uncommon to challenge a fellow gentleman to a duel in order to "restore honor". For instance, if you insulted a gentleman in public, it was in their right to challenge you to a duel, and you couldn't just refuse. If you refused, you would either be seen as a coward, or it meant that you didn't see the other person as a gentleman at all (because dueling between different social classes was frowned upon), which might lead you to being spit out from that entire social group. Duels were treated as very formal matters, where each side would appoint "seconds", people that negotiated the rules on their behalf and would first seek to come to a non-violent compromise. If that didn't work out, the seconds would find an open space for the duel, pick a time, decide upon a dress code (it was a very formal matter), decide the weapons and decide if refreshments would be served during the event. Duels at first were often fought with swords, later on pistols became more common. The duelers, together with the seconds, would decide when a duel would end, which would be when the duelers gained "satisfaction". Often that was at first drawn blood, or when both duelers had had a chance at one shot. And a surgeon would be waiting nearby trying to save the dueler's lives afterwards. Duels were banned by many legislations around the second half of the 19th century, because they were very often done by military officers, and losing well-trained officers to something like this was a quite big drain on the military. For a while that just meant duels would often be fought on disputed ground between legislations so that persecution was harder, but in the early 20th century society started frowning on the practice as a whole. However, Wikipedia notes that in France, there was a sword duel between parlementarians as recently as 1967, and in Uruguay there was a pistol duel in 1971.
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Nov 28, 2020 08:42
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If only they had invented children's card games.
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Nov 28, 2020 09:11
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