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Beet Wagon posted:Doing a called shot right now, they absolutely will be stupid enough to implement this at some point, and it will 100% kill the game lmao. "Oh, hold on, I died during that raid on the [whatever, some space bullshit]. I'll meet up with you guys in a bit, I just have to make a 45 minute round-trip to go pick up my guns." World of Warcraft tried this at launch. All the corpses killed the servers so bad they had to implement a downtime to sweep the zones free of them.
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Oct 31, 2020 18:25
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Also. I was going through my google docs and saw a link to a shared spreadsheet. Accurate Star Citizen best estimated feature dates as of 7/26/16.xls Ah the good olde days of 2016 when we could laugh at the non progress made.
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Oct 31, 2020 18:26
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quote:No it's not. SC is aiming to be somewhat like real life. If you walk outside your house you are taking a risk. The risks scale up pretty high the moment you enter a car, get into traffic... start engaging with people etc. Move from one location to another. Life has risks literally everywhere. The same will apply to Star Citizen. If you're so risk averse that you don't want to play the game because "risk" then this isn't the game for you. There will be ways of minimizing risk and playing in very chill/casual ways. However you'll never be able to completely negate risk no more so than you can in real life. (Hint: You can't) quote:SC is not nor has ever intended to be a mainstream game. So no, there doesn't need to be a balance. quote:That's absolutely true as an isolated generic statement. However in the context of Star Citizen where it actually matters and is applied it's absolute nonsense. If you're being punished too much or too frequently it's because you keep putting yourself in risky situations and for lack of a better term, failing. You've made bad choices. It isn't because "oh the game is too hard" or "oh the game is too punishing" it's not. You've made choices and those choices have resulted in significant risk and punishment for failure. You can fix those problems yourself without the design needing to be changed. As I said above, you will be able to minimize your risk. quote:Once death matters... it will matter for everyone and for the most part if they hit all their design cues it'll be pretty hard to identify you as a player to "gank". Which brings up another point. Do you assume there is going to be all combat all the time everywhere? Because there isn't. There might be combat potential but potential doesn't mean it'll end up happening. Just that it could happen.
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Oct 31, 2020 18:31
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https://i.imgur.com/yUh8kbj.gifv
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Oct 31, 2020 19:25
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"This was never meant to be a mainstream game and it will actively punish you for playing. Also hundreds of thousands of people will play in the verse at the same time, creating a surplus labor pool of newbies who will suck my dick for the chance to swab my decks. Also cig will make enough money to work on this game forever."
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Oct 31, 2020 19:35
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Mirificus posted:No it's not. SC is aiming to be somewhat like real life. Hold on a second, brb, I'm doing a corpse run.
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Oct 31, 2020 20:05
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monkeytek posted:It's brilliant! With inheritance tax and constant deaths Croberts has figured out how to keep inflation from spiraling out of control. After your 30th death of the day you'll have less than you started with, with nothing to show for it! I made this trade run and earned a cool $5K. How much did it cost me?  My entire in-game family tree.
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Oct 31, 2020 20:43
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All this Dead *** series talk made me want to go and play some more of Dead Cells. Try it out, lacks multiplayer, but other than that it's very similar and has more intuitive controls. Feels great to die and run again, too. I improved from failing at the first boss to reaching the final (secret) boss at highest difficulty over a year and it was immensely satisfying. And I am still in awe regarding what people can do - like reach the final boss (regular) without any weapons and killing him purely with weak stomping attack, their evade skill is just too godlike compared to mine.
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Oct 31, 2020 20:51
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Pixelate posted:Honestly what the gently caress... Sometimes when you need to have some object viewable in some screen, like maybe some inventory panel, you spawn the object some unthinkable distance away with a camera. So then it looks like it's just in your inventory and you can spin it, but it's actually spawned in the world somewhere as some object. In this case it looks like the player camera for this user is getting tangled up with the inventory view camera for some random gun. Maybe. No idea how they could screw that up but there it is. 
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Oct 31, 2020 20:56
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WTF?! Holy Gallant Energy Rifle?
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Sanya Juutilainen posted:All this Dead *** series talk made me want to go and play some more of Dead Cells. Try it out, lacks multiplayer, but other than that it's very similar and has more intuitive controls. Feels great to die and run again, too. Dragon's Dogma Dark Arisen was pretty good too - it's more of a standard RPG but it did some very interesting things with bosses, and the hit-a-wall, practice, gear, try again mixed with creative combinations of abilities/items to me was done very well. I never felt stuck, always that I was either doing something wrong or trying something too soon. Kind of a messy game though, Dark Souls series seems better engineered overall.
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Oct 31, 2020 21:03
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Lladre posted:World of Warcraft tried this at launch. All the corpses killed the servers so bad they had to implement a downtime to sweep the zones free of them. Heck, even when bodies despawned, for major events like the scourge plague at the launch of Wrath of the Lich King, sometimes there could be enough corpses in the main square of stormwind to make it virtually unplayable. CIG is putting on an absolute masterclass in "Not paying attention to lessons that were learned decades ago" lol
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Oct 31, 2020 21:04
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Beet Wagon posted:Heck, even when bodies despawned, for major events like the scourge plague at the launch of Wrath of the Lich King, sometimes there could be enough corpses in the main square of stormwind to make it virtually unplayable. Now I'm tempted to crosspost my multicrew rant from over on the FDev forums, because that's another area where they have managed to stay ignorant of two decades worth of game design experience. 
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Oct 31, 2020 21:16
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TheAgent posted:lol loving crobbo with more idiocy...throwing out demon souls without understanding why the death mechanics work so well in those games Shut up. Roberts did not reference demon souls. loving lmao. (ugh now I gotta watch this dumb video haha) tuo posted:It's even worse...not only does he have no clue what demons souls, dark souls etc. is (he obviously never played them), he only uses demon's souls because it's a PS5 title soon launching. He has no idea what soulsbornes are....this is so pathetic It physically hurts me. He's unironically exactly the typical parody of the clueless armchair game developer. "LIKE DARK SOULS!" but not remotely comprehending what that means or why. tuo posted:Yes and no (IIRC the only "prison" in soulsbornes is in bloodborne with the bagmen, but someone correct me please, I never finished DS3 or it's DLCs) Arguably you could say that Seathe's Library, The Painted World, The Bloodborne Bagmen, and a few other things could qualify as "jail" But lol nothing in souls is anything like roberts' nightmare world. Hahahahaha he's actually talking about inheritance tax?! "The sins of the father..." jesus christ roberts! Zaphod42 fucked around with this message at 21:20 on Oct 31, 2020 |
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Oct 31, 2020 21:17
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Rotten Red Rod posted:It's the one where the death mechanics are extremely well thought out and incorporated into the gameplay such that death no longer becomes a frustrating failure, but an expected part of the process of learning a level, and results in eventual victories being incredibly fulfilling. They were being sarcastic Mailer posted:Souls continues to be one of the weird anomalies in video games. Doom, Street Fighter 2, CoD, Everquest... there's an endless list of games that wowed people and were subsequently cloned and improved until the genre died. Then years later someone does an amazing revival and it starts all over again. This is a good post. Yeah agree on every count here. I think the souls like games that won't suck are coming (Nioh 1&2 weren't awful) but 3rd person animation driven games are a pain in the rear end compared to FPS, even action games like DMC are harder and I think Souls is harder to get right than a spectacle fighter still. So lots of devs at AAA aren't even trying. Zaphod42 fucked around with this message at 21:25 on Oct 31, 2020 |
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Oct 31, 2020 21:21
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For me the main appeal of soulsbourne games is the feeling of mastery you get when you have everything figured out, enemies goes from being scary to easy to beat once you have acquired the knowledge needed to beat them. Running through an area for the first time and being scared of everything and then later you just rush through because now you are the scariest thing there.
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Oct 31, 2020 21:28
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trucutru posted:If you avoid all the knights then the run to get squashed again by Ornstein and Smough takes less than 2 minutes. But that's only if you define "the action" as being bosses when you're repeating boss runs. But trying to dodge enemies (or even fight your way back to the boss like you should) counts as "action" compared to the dull experience SC is promoting of laying on the ground on some moon while your shattered leg bleeds into your spacesuit, waiting for someone to come and heal you so you can stand up and move again. Souls after you die you're back in the "action" in literally seconds, as soon as you're done loading. The only exception is if you're co-oping then you'll have to spend time activating humanity/embers/whatever and finding a sign, but you're still back in "action" in like, minutes. Souls doesn't really waste your time. You may die and have to do things again, but each time you're instantly back doing the thing again. Like Megaman. A game that wastes your time comparison would be Everquest. Everquest makes you sit down and WAIT real-time for your character to heal and recover mana. Wizards that rely on mana end up spending half of combat just sitting on the ground "meditating" with their spellbooks to recover mana slightly faster. Doing NOTHING. If you die, you may have to run literal hours to get back to where you were, if you don't have a friend with a teleport or SoW or something. You have to spend hours and hours and hours grinding to get money or farming camps to get something worthwhile, and if you play on a PvP server, getting murdered can lose some of your gear and move you back all that grinding. Dying loses you XP and makes you possibly de-level, so you have to grind it all out again. If you don't loot your corpse, you'll lose all the gear you had on you that isn't stored in the bank. The game Star Citizen is closest to is not remotely Dark Souls type death, its Everquest type death. Everquest is quite possibly my favorite gaming experience of all time. It was an electric virtual world that felt real and grounded in ways that modern MMO design like WoW doesn't really satisfy anymore. (look at the demand for WoW Classic) So if Star Citizen did it right, they could feasibly make a really cool game experience where the game requires heavy investment. And it could be cool. Buuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuut everybody at CIG is incompetent so instead they're not making a game they're making jpgs and tech debt, there's no design document, and everything that EQ did right SC is going to do x100000 worse and it won't be fun remotely. Sandweed posted:For me the main appeal of soulsbourne games is the feeling of mastery you get when you have everything figured out, enemies goes from being scary to easy to beat once you have acquired the knowledge needed to beat them. Running through an area for the first time and being scared of everything and then later you just rush through because now you are the scariest thing there. To me the point of Souls games is the bark is worse than the bite. You get into dungeons or bosses and you go "gently caress, that's too much. Maybe some pro gamer can do this, but I can't do this" Then an hour later, you're shouting "gently caress YOU YES I DID IT I DID THAT poo poo" Souls is about a balanced challenge and consistent mechanics so that success feels actually earned and so much sweeter than if it was just handed to you. You know what it means in a visceral personal way. Its about leveling up as a player, not as an rpg character. Which is what old NES games like Castlevania and Megaman were like, before everything became about skinner box loot and leveling or a lengthy tutorial with automatic achievements that gets playtested to the point of being a snooze. Zaphod42 fucked around with this message at 21:35 on Oct 31, 2020 |
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Oct 31, 2020 21:32
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str citzne should never be compared to another game, as it isn't one itself The nearest thing I can compare it to is Bonzi Buddy, it's a pile of annoying poo poo that uses system resources for no good reason and is a shitter to try and uninstall
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Oct 31, 2020 21:38
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peter gabriel posted:str citzne should never be compared to another game, as it isn't one itself Arguably, you could call it an ARG, since all the "gameplay" is done outside the game, in a meta shitposting sort of way.
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Oct 31, 2020 21:47
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the demons souls of space sims
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Oct 31, 2020 22:18
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Beet Wagon posted:Doing a called shot right now, they absolutely will be stupid enough to implement this at some point, and it will 100% kill the game lmao. "Oh, hold on, I died during that raid on the [whatever, some space bullshit]. I'll meet up with you guys in a bit, I just have to make a 45 minute round-trip to go pick up my guns." Wait, only 45 minutes? With all the running, elevator rides, train rides, and flight to exit the atmosphere? Did he die inside Loreville or something?
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Oct 31, 2020 22:24
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I think whatever happens to your spaceman should also happen to you in real life: turning into a golf ball, deskeletonization, face removal. Part of that comes from getting into the halloween spirit, but I also believe it would be good for star citizen.
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Oct 31, 2020 22:24
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The Titanic posted:I made this trade run and earned a cool $5K. How much did it cost me? Are you sure you weren't playing Crusader Kings?
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Oct 31, 2020 22:41
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Hell, they have enough trouble keeping a mining vehicle alive
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Oct 31, 2020 22:53
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Just a few easy workarounds! Such as, do not use the Roc.
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Oct 31, 2020 23:13
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Pixelate posted:Hell, they have enough trouble keeping a mining vehicle alive Any one of these should be enough to tell you the games turbo hosed. "Spawn your car but if it falls through the ground just spawn another one until it doesn't"
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Oct 31, 2020 23:15
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Pixelate posted:Hell, they have enough trouble keeping a mining vehicle alive 7- Put holy water around the computer exactly 8 inches from the cpu. You will need to measure this. If the cpu is too high off the floor do not attempt to spawn the roc. 8- Clap once, hit F, pay respects, and after saying the ABCs twice immediately hit Q then Y. This will prevent the roc from launching into orbit and killing you. 9- Click the left mouse button, right mouse button, K key, Space bar, middle mouse button, and within 4 seconds find the right hud menu item and open to menu 2 and set power to 75% to engines. This will allow you to drive the roc down a ramp. It works about 70% of the time guaranteed.
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Nov 1, 2020 00:05
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Zaphod42 posted:
Isn't the point to compare SC to good games? Yes, EQ wastes your time, but so does Bugsy 3D.
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Nov 1, 2020 00:40
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Flannelette posted:Any one of these should be enough to tell you the games turbo hosed. That's for a single vehicle. Everything from flying to getting the UI to load to using an elevator has a list of workarounds designed to pretend this is a game you can play. It's yet another thing about SC that would be fun and hilarious as an indie game concept piece if it was done ironically.
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Nov 1, 2020 00:53
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The Titanic posted:7- Put holy water around the computer exactly 8 inches from the cpu. You will need to measure this. If the cpu is too high off the floor do not attempt to spawn the roc. Make the sign of the Holy Thumb and hammer Esc
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Nov 1, 2020 01:21
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The third absurd ship showroom nears completion Fittingly, the base-building Pioneer doesn’t seem to exist...  Neither does whatever the hell this is: quote:The Anvil Crucible
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Nov 1, 2020 01:30
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10 - Look up at the sky in game if the sun is in the east and the moon is setting then continue but if not you're gonna need to... etc etc
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Nov 1, 2020 01:33
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Pixelate posted:Hell, they have enough trouble keeping a mining vehicle alive Yep this is the kind of dance that I keep referring to- this is the horseshit that every Citizen posting "Well I don't see any bugs" has done so often that they are now blind to it.
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Nov 1, 2020 01:46
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If steps 1-10 don't work for you it's probably your system and I'd consider an upgrade. If money is an issue this might not be the game for you.
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Nov 1, 2020 06:37
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I'm new to watching this dumpster fire with more attention than just hearing secondhand what a mess it is, but holy poo poo is it all so amazing. You all in this thread are doing god's work I watched a video where some veteran shitizen was giving a noob a tour of the new babbage "city". At some point he says something like, "hey see that bar? next patch they're going to actually add bartenders that will make you drinks  yeah..." He then shows the noob that you can purchase and consume a bottle of water as if that was the greatest thing to ever grace his computer monitor and was hopeful that "they will let us climb that in the future" when pointing out a climbing wall. Even the backers of this game have stupid loving priorities.Their codebase and design patterns must be such a hellish disaster at this point that a broken bartender feature would take a month of work for multiple people, those poor bastards.
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Nov 1, 2020 06:40
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They actually finished and implemented the bartenders, and it's hilarious how much work they clearly put into their animations and AI, and it's still janky as hell and often broken.
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Nov 1, 2020 06:43
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playground tough posted:Their codebase and design patterns must be such a hellish disaster at this point that a broken bartender feature would take a month of work for multiple people, those poor bastards. A month?!? I guess you really are new here! Welcome! Those bartenders were being built and hyped for years... seriously. It was supposed to be the base for their entire "subsumption" AI tech. You know, that would have AI indistinguishable from humans, and have bartenders live full and meaningful lives off screen, or whatever. Currently the big deal seems to be that occasionally, when they aren't janking out, they know where you move and serve you a drink. If you're lucky. This is how it is and how it always will be.
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Nov 1, 2020 07:09
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What's funny is I didn't even realize until recently that "subsumption" isn't even a CIG invented buzzword. Its a concept from the 80s. But Chris heard someone say that subsumption was how you make powerful AI so boom, subsumption in Star Citizen, even if it doesn't make any sense really. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subsumption_architecture
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Nov 1, 2020 07:11
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Mirificus posted:Once death matters... it will matter for everyone and for the most part if they hit all their design cues it'll be pretty hard to identify you as a player to "gank". Which brings up another point. Do you assume there is going to be all combat all the time everywhere? Because there isn't. There might be combat potential but potential doesn't mean it'll end up happening. Just that it could happen. Ok this is interesting to me because this is apparently how some shitizens have wiggled their way out of the death penalty issue. The game will have hundreds of thousands of living NPCs indistinguishable from players, so you wouldn't even know who to grief! Also, in this spaceship game which is ostensibly fun because you get to shoot your space lasers in your big sexy ship, actually you will only have the rare potential to shoot space lasers. Because like the real world, there is a huge death penalty and law enforcement is everywhere. So actually it will be just like real life where you just get in your car and take the freeway to work. This is what I want in my dream game.
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Nov 1, 2020 07:15
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L. Ron Hoover posted:A month?!? I guess you really are new here! Welcome! Zaphod42 posted:What's funny is I didn't even realize until recently that "subsumption" isn't even a CIG invented buzzword. Its a concept from the 80s. But Chris heard someone say that subsumption was how you make powerful AI so boom, subsumption in Star Citizen, even if it doesn't make any sense really. Oh my god this rocks so much
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Nov 1, 2020 07:31
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Zaphod42 posted:What's funny is I didn't even realize until recently that "subsumption" isn't even a CIG invented buzzword. Its a concept from the 80s. But Chris heard someone say that subsumption was how you make powerful AI so boom, subsumption in Star Citizen, even if it doesn't make any sense really. Yes, these days we call it “Radiant™” and we are all quite familiar with how well it operates in video games when done poorly. And this is CI¬G — it will be done poorly.
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