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Yuzenn posted:Not that I disagree with the premise, unless I'm missing something from the board state this combo doesn't work?? Nah she (and the rest of the table) is either unaware of the fact that it doesn't work because it's too complicated to parse, or she's cheating. Perfectly encompasses casual Commander gameplay, actually. *edit: also, the tweet is over a year old FWIW Katana Gomai fucked around with this message at 14:16 on Oct 31, 2020 |
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Oct 31, 2020 14:11
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Bust Rodd posted:Railing against infinite combos is just one head of the “Blue is OP” hydra that denotes people who haven’t explored multiple high-power formats While you aren't wrong, I think Leperfish's post rings true. I also like to explore how games (and things in general) work. This led me to an interest in high level competitive play, because I wanted to see how high powered decks played. However, the people who have real investments of self worth tied to wins are often not pleasant to interact with. I went to several GP's etc. but that scene wasn't for me. There is no room for someone who may make honest mistakes at a GP or SCG until you are x-3 and people are playing just to play. Then I think WotC went nuts and high level play is less interesting because they said gently caress balancing the game.
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Oct 31, 2020 14:16
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Look, you can't blame wotc for alienating their core audience in order to capture the ephemeral and oft-fickle dollar of the casual market for short-term gain... ...because everyone else is doing it!!!!!
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Oct 31, 2020 14:22
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Leperflesh posted:Well, maybe. Although for me, I believed I was talking specifically about "unintended" infinite combos, not something Magic designers intentionally put into the game over and over. That they have codified rules to handle those cases proves otherwise. I don't necessarily hold that this was a wise decision, but it's not quite the same as being offended that another player has chosen to interact with that part of the rules. To me the comparison to D&D doesn't seem applicable at all. D&D is completely different style of game than Magic and to me the beauty of D&D is the flexibility within the rules. It's cooperative and competitive play isn't really a thing so there's never a reason to allow a player to abuse a rule to get an edge on their fellow players since that is a detriment to everyone's enjoyment of the game. It's generally played as a long term group effort so if you have one player who wants to try and break the game with a munchkin build you just tell them no or kick them out. Magic is beautiful in the opposite way. There is a very rigid rules structure and pushing those rules to the limit is a part of the game. To me some of the most fun experiences in Magic come from abusing rules to do crazy or unexpected things. 'Infinite' combos are necessary because any limit would be totally arbitrary and abusable in a different way. I've been trying to think of a way to cap arbitrarily large loops in Magic but any rule I can think of is far more complicated than just allowing them.
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Oct 31, 2020 14:28
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Katana Gomai posted:Nah she (and the rest of the table) is either unaware of the fact that it doesn't work because it's too complicated to parse, or she's cheating. Perfectly encompasses casual Commander gameplay, actually. Ok I thought I was crazy but this is why I basically only play through MTA or MTGO so I don't have to try to follow such nuts interactions. I couldn't imagine trying commander with my angle shooting rear end friends and board states.
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Oct 31, 2020 14:29
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The Klowner posted:Look, you can't blame wotc for alienating their core audience in order to capture the ephemeral and oft-fickle dollar of the casual market for short-term gain... New thread title?
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Oct 31, 2020 14:32
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 lol  Also an old old card rerprint!
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Oct 31, 2020 16:21
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 Seb McKinnon Cuombajj Witches being printed first time in paper
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Oct 31, 2020 16:22
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it's goofy cards like this that make me wish the commander-only sets landed on arena in some form
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Oct 31, 2020 16:28
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Everyone rightly loves Seb, but the goofy original Foglio art had some great personality to it e: is this the first paper printing since Chronicles? Wanna live the dream and hit Maelstrom Wanderer with this. Entropic fucked around with this message at 16:32 on Oct 31, 2020 |
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Oct 31, 2020 16:29
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Y'know, the whole going infinite discussion reminds me of how people see infinite combos in fighting games. Most casual players look at one of those and go "why isn't that banned? It's unfair, it's not intended, you just die off of one hit!". At a first glance, that makes sense, but it ignores a few key aspects of competitive fighting game play, which I think transfer to card games pretty well. One of them is that combos are fun and effectively a strong combo that goes off once is just as powerful as an infinite. It being infinite doesn't matter all that much and trying to put a hard limit on a loop tends to just make things less elegant and more obtuse (see Vanilla Skullgirls). Another one is that people like breaking competitive games. I mean, they like breaking games in general, but it's fun to find something exploitable to beat people with. In cooperative or storytelling games, that's frowned upon because you're just the powergaming rear end in a top hat ruining everyone's fun, but in versus games...I mean, you wanna win, and if you can pull off something flashy and just lock down a game, that's even better. In D&D your objective is to win together. In MTG or a fighting game, your objective is to defeat your opponent. Different mentality. Which leads me to my third point: going infinite isn't always the best strategy anyway. Sometimes you need a specific setup that can easily be stopped if the opponent knows what to look for. Sometimes you have to give up on a resource you need for a combo because otherwise you're gonna die. A lot of games just balance around ToD combos and going infinite as a core part of gameplay, and I think by now MTG has mostly embraced infinite combos as a thing that happens. Most formats try to stop decks from going off T1, but as a whole you have instant speed answers, hate cards and removal for a reason.
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Oct 31, 2020 19:13
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ah yes because the fgc definitely doesnt hate infinite combos (see: wobbling, mvc, brawl ice climbers)
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Oct 31, 2020 19:25
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Sampatrick posted:ah yes because the fgc definitely doesnt hate infinite combos (see: wobbling, mvc, brawl ice climbers) Oh, people complain about everything in competitive games, but "hate" is a strong generalization, no one was petitioning for a ban on TAC infinites in MVC3 because it's a game where you expect that poo poo to happen. At the end of the day Storm, Cable and Sentinel were more played that Iron Man and Sim in MVC2. Point is, it's an accepted part of many games who are kinda balanced towards insanity anyway. also obligatory smash isn't a fighting game
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Oct 31, 2020 19:34
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Tag fighters tend to favor consistency over insanity. Which is why Magneto Storm Sentinel was the team you always saw, it was just consistently good.
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Oct 31, 2020 19:36
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As someone who doesn't play commander, I don't think the Lotus is a power level problem. It is kinda annoying that like 90% of commander decks now need a card that is 130 bucks though.
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Oct 31, 2020 21:34
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mcmagic posted:As someone who doesn't play commander, I don't think the Lotus is a power level problem. It is kinda annoying that like 90% of commander decks now need a card that is 130 bucks though. But enough about Mana Crypt.
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Oct 31, 2020 21:41
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infinites break smash more dramatically than they break other fighting games, in the same way that infinites break other tcgs more dramatically than they break magic
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Oct 31, 2020 22:25
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 i love this. it even interacts favourably with saffi eriksdotter
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Oct 31, 2020 22:30
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He knows to stop and smell the flowers. 
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Oct 31, 2020 22:33
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Count Bleck posted:But enough about Mana Crypt. Mana Crypt existed before Commander lol
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Oct 31, 2020 22:51
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The World Inferno posted:
this will/would make a glorious playmat
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Oct 31, 2020 23:04
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So on an unrelated note, I've been thinking of getting back into Standard on Arena for the first time in ages.. any good guides out there to the meta that aren't horribly pay walled? It looks like CFB has paywalled half their articles these days, and they used to be my go-to resource for this stuff.
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Oct 31, 2020 23:18
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PlasticAutomaton posted:So on an unrelated note, I've been thinking of getting back into Standard on Arena for the first time in ages.. any good guides out there to the meta that aren't horribly pay walled? It looks like CFB has paywalled half their articles these days, and they used to be my go-to resource for this stuff. MTGA Zone is pretty much my go-to site for anything Arena related. https://mtgazone.com/metagame/standard/
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Oct 31, 2020 23:27
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ungulateman posted:
So the creature attacks a player but also fights Hans?
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Nov 1, 2020 00:05
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It's kind of a shame all of the decent noncombat damage prevention stuff is in white.
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Nov 1, 2020 00:09
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thetoughestbean posted:So the creature attacks a player but also fights Hans? Yup
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Nov 1, 2020 00:38
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The Shortest Path posted:It's kind of a shame all of the decent noncombat damage prevention stuff is in white. Also means you can't run Saffi in a Hans deck. C'mon Wizards!
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Nov 1, 2020 00:43
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Sometimes Rosawatta Stone is too good: https://twitter.com/RosewattaStone/status/1322553725714636800?s=20
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Nov 1, 2020 01:24
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I was talking to the owner of my LGS and they said they’ve received official confirmation that the Jumpstart reprint has been cancelled. Backing up Commander Legends has shifted their timetables to the point that they just can’t do it and they’ve cancelled all outstanding requests. I don’t know if distributors elsewhere have different news but this what he just told me. So the unlimited print run is now basically a Magic summer series ultra-limited run and Allosaurus Shepherd will probably be a $120 card... forever lmao
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Nov 1, 2020 01:28
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Bust Rodd posted:I was talking to the owner of my LGS and they said they’ve received official confirmation that the Jumpstart reprint has been cancelled. Backing up Commander Legends has shifted their timetables to the point that they just can’t do it and they’ve cancelled all outstanding requests. I don’t know if distributors elsewhere have different news but this what he just told me. I can’t thank whatever goon posted that the cards in it had started to leak so prices were going up early enough to snag a $85 box enough  edit: Amazon appears to let you buy boxes from the uk at not-insane markups even including shipping. evilweasel fucked around with this message at 01:33 on Nov 1, 2020 |
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Nov 1, 2020 01:30
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evilweasel posted:I can’t thank whatever goon posted that the cards in it had started to leak so prices were going up early enough to snag a $85 box enough still 115 euros in france o_O
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Nov 1, 2020 01:35
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GoutPatrol posted:Sometimes Rosawatta Stone is too good: Protection from salamanders was already way funnier
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Nov 1, 2020 01:40
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Yeah after shipping I can get one from the UK for $143 to SC and if I did that and don’t rip a Shepherd I would be devastated, so hopefully I can just grab a shepherd sometime down the road in a high value trade.
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Nov 1, 2020 01:40
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evilweasel posted:I can’t thank whatever goon posted that the cards in it had started to leak so prices were going up early enough to snag a $85 box enough I just wish I took my own advice. I ended up canceling my pre-order because I had some job search issues and thought, "Its fine, I'm sure the price will flatten back after a few months." One thing I'm not sure of, the 32 popular reprint legends, are they showing up as part of the set regular or only in that etched foil format? Macdeo Lurjtux fucked around with this message at 01:45 on Nov 1, 2020 |
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Nov 1, 2020 01:41
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Bust Rodd posted:Yeah after shipping I can get one from the UK for $143 to SC and if I did that and don’t rip a Shepherd I would be devastated, so hopefully I can just grab a shepherd sometime down the road in a high value trade. Yeah but it beats the $250 the boxes are going for otherwise! edit: nm not much compared to the 175 on tcgplayer evilweasel fucked around with this message at 01:46 on Nov 1, 2020 |
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Nov 1, 2020 01:42
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Orange Fluffy Sheep posted:So you never saw the G/W Devotion decks back during Theros/Khans standard, eh? I think I'm missing how exactly these interact, someone explain what's happening?
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Nov 1, 2020 02:30
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Dumper Humper posted:I think I'm missing how exactly these interact, someone explain what's happening? They don't directly interact; the overwhelming majority of the lifegain was from Mastery triggers. Courser mostly allowed you to know when you were manifesting a creature and plan accordingly.
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Nov 1, 2020 02:36
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tqilamknbrd posted:this will/would make a glorious playmat Unfortunate news: Seb had that one in his first playmat kickstarter, and any playmat that gets made in a kickstarter of his will never be printed again. 
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Nov 1, 2020 02:40
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BioThermo posted:They don't directly interact; the overwhelming majority of the lifegain was from Mastery triggers. Courser mostly allowed you to know when you were manifesting a creature and plan accordingly. To explain a little further, the idea is that you want to manifest creatures because then you can flip them up for ~value~ and tons of life So your turn would start, in your upkeep you spend 3W to manifest because you see you have a creature on top, then it's a land so you draw for turn, then it's a creature so you manifest again, then you see it's a land so you play the land off the top because of Courser of Kruphix, then you manifest because it's a creature. Throw in some manifesting of Den Protector and recurring Deathmist Raptor and oh god
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Nov 1, 2020 02:44
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Lone Goat posted:Wasn't Four Horsemen the deck that was physically incapable of accomplishing it's win condition, and if you tried it you'd get DQ'd for stalling? Basically you can do the loop infinite times and not necessarily hit the wincon and because the board state doesn't advance you're slow-playing, and you can't shortcut it. If I'm playing Gitrog Dredge in Commander and I pitch my Dakmor Salvage and dredge 2, I may not hit a land. That's okay, because I do it again, and I hit a land, and I do it again, and I shuffle, etc, and I demonstrate that the loop will advance the game state, and then I win using the infinite draw triggers I've generated. Horsemen can't actually do that. It's not banned it's just strongly discouraged
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Nov 1, 2020 02:48
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