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Darko posted:YOLT has the space theme which is one of the most definitive Bond themes. Austin Powers and Incredibles riff in it quite well too. The Propellerheads song "On Her Majesty's Secret Service" uses this at 5:00 as a transition, it's great. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7O1_0hikl-A Trivia for this song: Both the morse code at the beginning of the song and the bass in the second half of the song are spelling out the O-H-M-S-S AFewBricksShy fucked around with this message at 13:07 on Oct 20, 2020 |
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Oct 20, 2020 13:02
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Yeah, Capsule in Space is sooo goddamn good. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7dqimbX0l0E
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Oct 20, 2020 13:41
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That's the Moores done. My favorite is For Your Eyes Only. I really, really enjoyed that and will definitely rewatch it soon. Followed closely by The Spy Who Loved Me, y'all don't miss. Kind of ludicrous but in a fun way. FYEO was just a solid spy film. And that soundtrack? God drat. Did people really not like the disco influences? That poo poo banged. Bond using a prusik knot to climb back up the rope at the end was cool. My biggest beef would have to be that Moore was so definitely beginning to show his age there. The others though? Uhh. Yeah. Live And Let Die has a great theme and The Man With The Golden Gun has....Christopher Lee I guess?? I got nothihng for Octopussy. A View To A Kill was weird. The cave collapse + gunning down the miners scene felt like it went on for 50 hours. At least Walken was clearly having fun. Grace Jones is always a treat and Duran Duran's theme is a blast but I never want to see that again. But now I get an excuse to watch The Living Daylights again and I haven't seen License to Kill in well over a decade so hell yeah.
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Oct 28, 2020 14:41
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Score-wise, having finished most of them now I've got to 100% echo the above and add: -Goldeneye score rules IMO (but I've got a soft spot for funky computer music). Tina Turner theme is the bomb. -Moonraker is under-rated. I love the combo space opera/spy feel, and like the theme better than I remember from when I was a kid. -I like the 70's soft-rock/disco vibe of Spy Who Loved Me. The "Eastern Lights" theme is just a good funky tune: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OIiy5cs7Ta4 Drink-Mix Man fucked around with this message at 02:58 on Oct 29, 2020 |
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Oct 29, 2020 01:55
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Al Cu Ad Solte posted:FYEO was just a solid spy film. And that soundtrack? God drat. Did people really not like the disco influences? That poo poo banged. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MtLjTnG16rk No kidding, it's got a great score.
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Oct 29, 2020 14:17
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Coheed and Camembert posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MtLjTnG16rk That screencap brings up a good question: was a Bond poster/promotional image the first time a character was between someone's legs like that?
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Oct 29, 2020 15:45
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Coheed and Camembert posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MtLjTnG16rk That motif gave me chills every time it came up.
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Oct 29, 2020 16:51
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Al Cu Ad Solte posted:In Skyfall, Bond identifies a woman as a sex slave since she was a child. He then sneaks on her boat, walks in on her in the shower, and "coerces" her into sex. This is then followed by her being brutally murdered by the villain, which results in a quip from Bond and the character immediately forgotton. This is the same movie where Moneypenny only exists because she got demoted for not being able to make an impossible shot and M just fucken' dying miserably so she could be replaced by a man. I think in the years since its release this has become a decidedly uncontroversial opinion.
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Oct 30, 2020 08:37
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Lobok posted:That screencap brings up a good question: was a Bond poster/promotional image the first time a character was between someone's legs like that? I think it’s a callback to this shot from You Only Live Twice, but I think the FYEO poster was the first time it became a “thing” that people associate with Bond, use as visual shorthand in parodies etc. 
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Oct 30, 2020 09:34
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Prince Myshkin posted:I think in the years since its release this has become a decidedly uncontroversial opinion. God I hope so. Did Moore ever explain why he decided to hold his gun like that? You know, bracing his elbow or forearm? I don't know guns but that really doesn't look like a stable way to hold a firearm 
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Oct 30, 2020 11:30
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Prince Myshkin posted:I think in the years since its release this has become a decidedly uncontroversial opinion. Outside of that scene which I had issues with from the first time I saw it, it’s still up there for me. The way it looks and sounds is pretty fantastic and really shows what a Bond movie with a vision could look like. Also I really love Javier Bardem as Silva. Best modern Bond villain for sure. Madds comes very close second but Bardem is just a bit more classic to me.
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Oct 30, 2020 15:45
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Al Cu Ad Solte posted:God I hope so. Serious education in handgun shooting was barely a thing at the time if you weren't an actual commando. There were a few books like Fairbairn & Sykes' Shooting to Live and Rex Applegate's Kill Or Get Killed, but for the most part people were making it up as they went along and often imitating things they saw other people do (especially in movies and TV). The "holding the wrist" position is one that Fairbairn & Sykes advocated as an alternative to the standard two-handed grip....in the 1940s.
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Oct 30, 2020 18:49
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Prince Myshkin posted:I think in the years since its release this has become a decidedly uncontroversial opinion. I think if folks are looking for a franchise that treats female characters in a respectful and serious way, James Bond is maybe not the thing for them? Yeah Bond does not come out of the Severine sequence looking particularly good, but how many movies are there where a woman he sleeps with early in the movie dies and he makes a quip about it? At least half? How many movies are there where he sleeps with a woman who is under some form of duress? Again, probably more than half? Saying that James Bond movies have bad sexual politics is like saying the sun tends to rise in the east. I don't know why anyone would call out Skyfall for it any more than most of the rest, certainly not more so than stuff like Goldfinger and Thunderball. If anything I think that M's arc in the Craig films culminating in Skyfall is one of the best depictions of a female character in the whole franchise.
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Oct 30, 2020 19:27
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chitoryu12 posted:Serious education in handgun shooting was barely a thing at the time if you weren't an actual commando. There were a few books like Fairbairn & Sykes' Shooting to Live and Rex Applegate's Kill Or Get Killed, but for the most part people were making it up as they went along and often imitating things they saw other people do (especially in movies and TV). The "holding the wrist" position is one that Fairbairn & Sykes advocated as an alternative to the standard two-handed grip....in the 1940s. Interesting! It is a pretty unique visual I'll admit. On that note, who has the best gunbarrel and why is it Brosnan? That power stance.  gohuskies posted:I think if folks are looking for a franchise that treats female characters in a respectful and serious way, James Bond is maybe not the thing for them? Yeah Bond does not come out of the Severine sequence looking particularly good, but how many movies are there where a woman he sleeps with early in the movie dies and he makes a quip about it? At least half? How many movies are there where he sleeps with a woman who is under some form of duress? Again, probably more than half? Saying that James Bond movies have bad sexual politics is like saying the sun tends to rise in the east. I don't know why anyone would call out Skyfall for it any more than most of the rest, certainly not more so than stuff like Goldfinger and Thunderball. If anything I think that M's arc in the Craig films culminating in Skyfall is one of the best depictions of a female character in the whole franchise. The point is it's 2020 (er, well, 2012 when Skyfall came out) and that poo poo really don't fly any more. Goldfinger is particularly yikes but it came out 5 decades ago. It's not too much to expect some kind of decency. With Skyfall it's not just the Severine thing either, it's that in combination with all the other questionable at best decisions made with regards to the female characters.
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Oct 30, 2020 19:32
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Al Cu Ad Solte posted:The point is it's 2020 (er, well, 2012 when Skyfall came out) and that poo poo really don't fly any more. Goldfinger is particularly yikes but it came out 5 decades ago. It's not too much to expect some kind of decency. With Skyfall it's not just the Severine thing either, it's that in combination with all the other questionable at best decisions made with regards to the female characters. I agree only partially with this. I expect the overall product of James Bond to get less sexist as it becomes more of a product of its time. While many Bond Girls have been useful allies or dangerous enemies, the movies have also had their share of dumb sexy airheads. I don't think we will be seeing the airhead accomplice in future installments, and that's a good thing. The Bond and Severine scenario, along with the casualness in which Bond seems to accept the death of women is actually something I think makes his character. James Bond lives in a world where he is constantly around the worst people on Earth every day, and everyone he talks to or has sex with dies. I see all of his behaviors as more of an acceptance that he is a crepuscular animal but his life, and the lives of everyone he meets, is really really dark. So overall, I'd like Bond as product to not be sexist, but I don't want the character's behavior to conform to our current outlook.
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Oct 30, 2020 20:03
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Al Cu Ad Solte posted:
My point is two-fold - first, I think that outdated sexual politics are part of what makes the Bond movies unique. It's part of the DNA of the franchise and it can be done in better or worse ways, but Bond movies aren't "woke" and they aren't supposed to be. That's what Bourne and Mission Impossible are for. Second, I don't agree that the other decisions with female characters in Skyfall are questionable at best. I think M's story arc over the three Craig-Dench movies is quite good and saying quote:M just fucken' dying miserably so she could be replaced by a man This is a good point as well: The Human Crouton posted:I agree only partially with this. I expect the overall product of James Bond to get less sexist as it becomes more of a product of its time. While many Bond Girls have been useful allies or dangerous enemies, the movies have also had their share of dumb sexy airheads. I don't think we will be seeing the airhead accomplice in future installments, and that's a good thing.
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Oct 30, 2020 20:06
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All the Craig films have a moment - or multiple moments - where a character turns almost directly to the audience and says “wow this James Bond is really misogynistic, to the point that it’s basically his defining character flaw.” Like, his fuckin origin story culminates in him calling a woman a bitch. Let’s face it: lose his severe issues with women, and Bond is just another spy character.
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Oct 30, 2020 22:23
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I maintain that Craig's reading of the "that's a waste of good Scotch" line in Skyfall is him reluctantly giving a quip even though he's disgusted. Silva challenges him to say something, "and what do you say to that?", in a way that conveys "I bet those famous James Bond one-liners aren't helping you sleep at night any more". The shower scene is still inexcusable but in that "good Scotch" moment it reads like an indictment of the glib one-liners (and the casual murder of disposable women) rather than an actual honest to god quip. Edit: Rewatched the scene, Silva even asks Bond before he takes the shot "is there any of the old 007 left?" Human Tornada fucked around with this message at 23:52 on Oct 30, 2020 |
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Oct 30, 2020 23:44
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Yeah, I took it that way too. Silva was challenging him. Bond can't look shook here.
The Human Crouton fucked around with this message at 00:07 on Oct 31, 2020 |
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Oct 30, 2020 23:51
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:Let’s face it: lose his severe issues with women, and Bond is just another spy character.  The casual attitude in the face of danger? The confidence in his skill? The repertoire with his support group? His multifaceted skillset and expertise in combat, driving, all things military to give him a rugged edge combined with his his love of fine booze, upscale gambling, and tailored clothes to form an interesting contradiction as a trained, cultured killer? None of those are important parts of his character and set him apart? Also M being Bond's mom is not an interesting character arc for a grown rear end woman. 
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Oct 31, 2020 02:24
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Sean Connery, RIP https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-54761824
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Oct 31, 2020 13:33
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Nobody Did It Better 
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Oct 31, 2020 14:42
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Al Cu Ad Solte posted:
What you’re describing is basically just the concept of a ‘Gentleman Thief’, albeit one who happens to kill rich people instead of stealing their artworks. The Bond character is better understood by what he doesn’t do. Like, even when stopping whatever massive doomsday weapons, Bond doesn’t seem to ever particularly care about saving lives. Nor is he particularly loyal to his organization, despite his ostensible patriotism. Bond’s adventures are always heavily decontextualized from “normal life”. We instead get a repeated narrative of Bond “retiring” - invariably with a woman that he ‘actually cares about’ - while the metanarrative is that it’ll inevitably fail. The best he can achieve is casual sex without major regrets (e.g. the end of Goldeneye), while a good number of the films focus on his pathological need to use women as a means of harming rival men.
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Oct 31, 2020 15:02
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Cerv posted:Sean Connery, RIP I knew this day would come eventually, but that doesn’t make it any less lovely. Fuckin’ 2020, man
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Oct 31, 2020 15:53
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It's definitely a bummer, but man, what a ride. There are very few people who can truly claim the title of 'legendary' but Sean Connery is definitely one of them.
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Oct 31, 2020 16:10
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It makes sense to have Bond as a character do sexist anti hero stuff. But the writers of Skyfall seemed to go out of their way to tell a sexist story that had nothing to do with "Hey, look what a messed up dude Bond is." I'm talking the film's treatment of Moneypenny and M.
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Oct 31, 2020 16:29
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Having moneypenny be a former field agent who screwed up is loads more characterization than "secretary" and makes her loads more interesting than she was in any single specific older film (though the chemistry lois maxwell had with most of old bonds does a ton of heavy lifting towards memorability) Its not misogynist to have a minor female character be, well, supporting The severine stuff is squicky but the "skyfall is misogynist" narrative is mostly ad hoc contrarianism because it was received so rapturously now that pop culture is mostly film illiterate and prefers to talk politics than how art is made
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Oct 31, 2020 20:17
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Al Cu Ad Solte posted:In Skyfall, Bond identifies a woman as a sex slave since she was a child. He then sneaks on her boat, walks in on her in the shower, and "coerces" her into sex. This is then followed by her being brutally murdered by the villain, which results in a quip from Bond and the character immediately forgotton. This is the same movie where Moneypenny only exists because she got demoted for not being able to make an impossible shot and M just fucken' dying miserably so she could be replaced by a man. Skyfall was the first Bond movie my Wife ever watched, and this scene turned her off of watching anymore Bond films ever.
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Oct 31, 2020 20:31
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RIP to an absolute legend. The once and future man, now dog.
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Oct 31, 2020 22:15
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BiggestBatman posted:Having moneypenny be a former field agent who screwed up is loads more characterization than "secretary" and makes her loads more interesting than she was in any single specific older film (though the chemistry lois maxwell had with most of old bonds does a ton of heavy lifting towards memorability) I mean, this was my opinion when I first saw the movie, even though I still mostly enjoyed it. I was like, "Hey, this is cool, Bond has a kick-rear end female partner from the outset that doesn't feel like tacked-on celebrity stunt casting. Oh, wait, no. She's the secretary now because she's a fuckup." That combined with the film's treatment of M, as well as all the themes about "going back to the old ways" just seemed to carry an anti-feminist message. It almost played like a rebuke to or reversal of the themes in Goldeneye. That's my film analysis, not my political analysis. I actually didn't really think much of the Severine stuff, I chalked that up to Bond's characterization. Drink-Mix Man fucked around with this message at 22:40 on Oct 31, 2020 |
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Oct 31, 2020 22:30
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Human Tornada posted:I maintain that Craig's reading of the "that's a waste of good Scotch" line in Skyfall is him reluctantly giving a quip even though he's disgusted. Silva challenges him to say something, "and what do you say to that?", in a way that conveys "I bet those famous James Bond one-liners aren't helping you sleep at night any more". It also follows along with the original writing of Bond by Fleming. Bond lives a life that he knows is very violent to him and everyone around him, and he stands a good chance of suddenly being shot in the back of the head or suffering an equally random death at any time before he retires. He handles this partly through his devil-may-care attitude toward his health (drinking and smoking insane amounts, driving recklessly, and maintaining numerous affairs) and partly through compartmentalization. When emotions risk jeopardizing his mission, he shuts off that part of his brain and becomes the cold and calculating weapon he's employed to be. The prior Bonds rarely got direction that made their quips in these cases come off as more than quips, but this scene does it very well. Bond is hurt by what happened, but he's surrounded by enemies with guns drawn and in a situation where it looks like Silva has no need not to order him executed in a few seconds. He's mad, and he's going to show it by demonstrating to Silva just why M put him back in the field.
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Oct 31, 2020 22:51
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I like Dan Craig’s Bond precisely because he’s played as “probably not a very good person”. He’s an assassin. I look at it as a reflection of the source material, which is hard to modernize without losing Bond’s characterization. In the Craig era it’s easy to believe you’re watching a government agent with some psychological issues that make him suitable to his kind of work. I get the arguments that the shower scene is mysognistic and you’re correct, it’s probably meant to be. I certainly didn’t read it as a sweeping scene of romance and heroism. It’s established pretty early in Casino Royale that he’ll use women as a means to an end. Whether or not it’s acceptable for a big name franchise like this to put stuff like that on screen anymore is up for debate. But it is true to the character.
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Nov 1, 2020 00:51
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At the same time, I think they lost something in the attempt to be “more like the books.” The Bond of Fleming isn’t just a scowling thug with tons of mental health issues concealed by liquor. He’s a hopeless romantic who falls in love too quickly with the wrong girls to settle down with, has a caring and affectionate side (the original book The Spy Who Loved Me is a great example), has legitimate friends that he can laugh and joke with and go to dinner with, and is content to generally live a normal upper middle-class lifestyle with simple pleasures while awaiting retirement or death. He comes off very similarly to how real people in his position of the time did in historic accounts, and I think that the Craig persona goes too far into darkness for the sake of “realism” to the point where he often struggles to be really likable.
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Nov 1, 2020 01:12
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I guess it’s just after all the camp of some of the other actors and the idea that Bond is the super slick guy with the gadgets and cars, it is super refreshing for me that they took on a harder edge this time around. I feel like Dalton was the closest we ever got to that, and to a lesser degree some of Connery’s work. I can certainly understand the argument that it took some of the “fun” out of the series, and turns off people who look for that kind of escapism in Bond movies.
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Nov 1, 2020 01:44
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I think they also touch on Bond’s caring side with Craig. Vesper, the girl in Quantum, the whole thing with Swan in Spectre and probably this new one. They do try to play both ends of the character, and his internal struggle with getting too close.
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Nov 1, 2020 01:46
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Was Moore's Bond particularly misogynistic beyond casually objectifying women in a 60's-70's sort of way? I remember him being more of a romance novel sort of protagonist but I haven't seen all his movies in a while.
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Nov 1, 2020 05:29
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It's not just a matter of escapism, but having a character who feels human in a way that's appealing to watch. Craig's Bond is a very dark character who suffers incredible loss and pain constantly, barely managing to stay in MI6 for the whole length of a movie without getting suspended, retiring, or faking his death to get out of it. The moments where he gets to show a more positive side to himself (at least not hidden behind more scowling and snarking) are usually a very small portion of each film's runtime. Hell, the dude lives in a virtually empty apartment because he has so little in his life that he really cares about and his time "enjoying death" is spent just getting dangerously drunk and playing with scorpions while living in a shack on the beach. A short film adaptation of the original The Spy Who Loved Me could actually come out really well. Bond shows up 60% of the way through the book and it's mostly about Vivienne Michel, but she's one of the strongest and most complex Bond Girls in the books (and the book has some surprisingly feminist positions for its time and the background of the author, including not vilifying her for being forced into an abortion and specifically calling out the idea that a girl is slutty for enjoying casual sex) who nearly escapes and nearly kills one of the bad guys before Bond arrives. When he shows up, he initially gets mistaken for another gangster before Viv is able to talk to him, and he immediately begins working to get her out of the situation while also being his usual dumbass self and encouraging her to just go to sleep in a dangerous situation instead of fleeing. The book ends with what could be a very well-shot battle, with the half-naked and scorched Bond and Viv in a gunfight against the backdrop of a burning mountain motel at night. Viv is actively involved in the action, reaching into a burning building for a first aid kit and firing at the gangsters' car with Bond's spare gun. When the fight is over, Bond shows Viv the first legitimate care and affection that she's ever had from a man in her life after receiving nothing but abuse or being treated as disposable. He's obviously gone in the morning and she expects it, but she's also come out of it with a better sense of who she is and what the world is like. When the cops try to warn her away from thinking she could love a man in the kind of dangerous and morally gray work as a spy, she basically goes "Okay boomer" and rides off on her Vespa into the sunset. Drink-Mix Man posted:Was Moore's Bond particularly misogynistic beyond casually objectifying women in a 60's-70's sort of way? I remember him being more of a romance novel sort of protagonist but I haven't seen all his movies in a while. For the most part, women in Moore's films were disposable and interchangeable. They rarely did more than a few token important actions and many of them (like Mary Goodnight or Stacey Sutton) ranged from utterly useless to an active hinderance to his mission. He'd often meet a girl half his age and be getting into foreplay within literal minutes through nothing but a few quips and a shared drink, and she may or may not appear again or do anything else in the plot. The only one to really be memorable and strong was Melina Havelock in For Your Eyes Only. It's not a surprise that it was the closest in tone to the original books, which always tried to have strong and important female characters for the time. Gala Brand in Moonraker literally does rocket science in her head to uncover Drax's plan and Bond only has to do the physical parts of their plan like saving them from captivity. chitoryu12 fucked around with this message at 05:34 on Nov 1, 2020 |
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Nov 1, 2020 05:30
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Drink-Mix Man posted:Was Moore's Bond particularly misogynistic beyond casually objectifying women in a 60's-70's sort of way? I remember him being more of a romance novel sort of protagonist but I haven't seen all his movies in a while. How much of this is Moore and how much is the screenwriters is up for debate, but the scripts were definitely written with his persona in mind. Even after he left, The Living Daylights had a couple of bits that felt to have been written for Moore rather than Dalton's harder, more serious take. All that said, The Spy Who Loves Me (my favourite Bond film, and also one with a strong female lead in Anya) still has a moment that makes me cringe today - when Bond is presented with essentially a slave girl and gives the line about delving deeply into Egypt's treasures. Holy poo poo, Bond.
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Nov 1, 2020 10:34
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Roger Moore has one of Bond's coldest moments. A guy about to fall off a building grabs Bond's tie, and then Bond interrogates him while the guy is teetering. Once Bond gets the information he needs, he smacks the guy's hand off his tie, and the guy falls to his death. Bond then quips "helpful chap".
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Nov 1, 2020 13:38
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chitoryu12 posted:The only one to really be memorable and strong was Melina Havelock in For Your Eyes Only. It's not a surprise that it was the closest in tone to the original books, which always tried to have strong and important female characters for the time. Gala Brand in Moonraker literally does rocket science in her head to uncover Drax's plan and Bond only has to do the physical parts of their plan like saving them from captivity.
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Nov 1, 2020 22:22
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