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insider posted:Where are you getting this "ancient code/virus" from? There is literally no evidence of that in the show. Somewhere around ep 7 or 8 Carl the medical android explains to Mother that the Necromancers (and by implication, all android and AI tech in general) were not invented by modern people, they were built off of blueprints and code found in the Mithraic holy texts. It's not spelled out 100% explicitly but it seemed very clear to me this was the method the precursor race used to get some other culture to come build the androids and entire space travel tech base needed to recreate them. https://raised-by-wolves.fandom.com/wiki/Necromancer#History quote:I disagree completely that there was no real Sturges because why are they there in the first place? The Voice/Serpent didn't send them to Keppler and it didn't talk to anyone until they arrived. In fact it didn't talk to anyone on the planet until the Ark arrived. It makes much more sense to me that the Serpent/Devil would use real memories to convince Mother to take that bite of the apple. Maybe he altered the memories to add the romance angle but I see no reason to believe he wasn't a real person who sent Father/Mother to try and populate a new world. If Sturges wasn't real who reprogrammed Mother and Father? Like I said it's not clearly shown one way or the other, and that's good, either interpretation works and makes for an interesting story and I expect they'll return to this in later episodes. If this manipulative Satan/AI presence existed in the Mithraic equipment from the beginning, as it must have, then really all bets are off and even the human characters might have had their memories manipulated, or some of them might even have been created from scratch while the ship was in flight. Or all of them! quote:Yea this was not correct. The creator actually said in an interview that The Voice speaks only to one person at a time and it is easier if they have a broken mind (like Marcus and Otho). It was just a guess based on mostly Atheists hearing the Voice, but it makes sense from the war that mostly the Atheists would be the broken minded. Maybe that was what they had planned at one point but what about Paul? He hears the voice just fine and is pretty clearly the least crazy of all the characters on the show e: quote:I didn't take it as voluntary at all as they wouldn't need to cover the eyes and bind the body of the necromancer if it was voluntary. It was clearly a cage (which is also clearly an "egg") used to hold the necromancer while the snake gestates. I'm not gonna say definitively that you're wrong but why would a cage be necessary at all, Mother's cooperation is pretty clearly not voluntary. Flesh Forge fucked around with this message at 03:55 on Nov 2, 2020 |
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Nov 2, 2020 03:50
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Flesh Forge posted:I'm not gonna say definitively that you're wrong but why would a cage be necessary at all, Mother's cooperation is pretty clearly not voluntary. mother's situation is very different than that of an android/necromancer in the previous civilization on kepler, she wasn't "born" in this culture of snake worship or whatever, and obviously there isn't a civilization like that on kepler anymore, so she needs to be coaxed/raped/mindfucked into the pregnancy if you have an organized society you don't have to bother with luring androids into snake sex, you just make them, cage them, put a snakeoid into them and wait until it hatches is paul talking to the same intelligence marcus is, or is there a second one (the real Sol?) and if there is a second one I can hardly see it as a positive influence since it convinced him to shoot his "mother" who actually gives a poo poo about him
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Nov 2, 2020 11:23
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what makes you think this was the first generation? it isn't stated either way (and if the writers are smart, it never will be)Doctor Jeep posted:is paul talking to the same intelligence marcus is, or is there a second one (the real Sol?) Good question! but now that I've thought about it some more, it seems pretty clear that the voice speaking to them and manipulating them is what actually breaks Otho's and Caleb's minds, and maybe their broken-ness is the reason it stops speaking to them. At this point there are three obvious possibilities for the source of the voice - the big dodecahedron, the core of the planet itself, and that free running humanoid (probably an android) shown briefly when the Mithraics are out on walkabout, the one apparently leaving the metal cards. also the shooting Mary thing was utterly baffling, it felt like a writer inserted it because they didn't feel the stakes were high enough. really just weird unless as you say maybe there are two voices with different goals 
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Nov 2, 2020 11:36
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Flesh Forge posted:what makes you think this was the first generation? it isn't stated either way (and if the writers are smart, it never will be) first generation of what? Flesh Forge posted:Good question! but now that I've thought about it some more, it seems pretty clear that the voice speaking to them and manipulating them is what actually breaks Otho's and Caleb's minds, and maybe their broken-ness is the reason it stops speaking to them. At this point there are three obvious possibilities for the source of the voice - the big dodecahedron, the core of the planet itself, and that free running humanoid (probably an android) shown briefly when the Mithraics are out on walkabout, the one apparently leaving the metal cards. the free running humanoid was later killed by mother, and the voices didn't stop
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Nov 2, 2020 14:23
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the first generation of necromancers and snake creatures, there's not really any reason to conclude this is the first time this pattern has unfolded.Doctor Jeep posted:the free running humanoid was later killed by mother, and the voices didn't stop I have no memory of this at all, roughly where in the series did this happen?
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Nov 2, 2020 14:51
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Flesh Forge posted:the first generation of necromancers and snake creatures, there's not really any reason to conclude this is the first time this pattern has unfolded. I never said there was, I think we're misunderstanding each other here you asked why a cage is necessary and referenced mother's pregnancy not needing one my point is that her circumstances are vastly different from those of a necromancer/android in a presumed kepler civilization whose big thing is birthing snakes by using others (humans/necros/androids/whatever) as their incubators so in such a civilization you have to use force and cages, because the incubators know what's going on and what will happen to them (because they're familiar with the world they grew up/live in), whereas mother is arriving on kepler in a time when that civilization and its power is apparently gone so the snakes/AI/planetary intelligence must manipulate her through all those VR simulations of her creator in the crashed pod, where it pretty much rapes her and convinces her to bring the snake to term through blatant lies Flesh Forge posted:I have no memory of this at all, roughly where in the series did this happen? I don't have the  anymore but it's after they all get away from the mithraists that kept them imprisoned and come to the pit, mother is lollygagging in front of it, the humanoid comes at her, she kills it and her and father take off its cowl/mask, revealing a human-ish face and concluding that these are devolved neanderthals/humans, and the same goes for the creaturesthey decide to keep schtum about it to spare the kids' feelings because they've been eating the creatures all this time lmao
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Nov 2, 2020 15:37
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Doctor Jeep posted:my point is that her circumstances are vastly different from those of a necromancer/android in a presumed kepler civilization whose big thing is birthing snakes by using others (humans/necros/androids/whatever) as their incubators Again I'm not gonna say you're wrong, but this is an assumption - completely reasonable based on what's given in the show, but there are other interpretations that also fit, and that's great. quote:I don't have the Yeah I remember this now, thanks for the recap of that. Maybe they'll come back to these clothes-wearing card-dealing variant on the native humanoids, who knows 
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Nov 2, 2020 15:51
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the show is at times ridiculous (mother and father's dumbfuck plan for killing the snake, why not just snap it half?) but it's an extremely fun ride and father is brilliant
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Nov 2, 2020 16:00
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tbf they probably couldn't have made themselves harm it, but yeah it could have been shown in a less weird way. I forgave basically everything that bothered me about the story just based on Mother and Father's awesome performances, Caleb and Mary were super good as well.
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Nov 2, 2020 16:05
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I loved that even the shithead "I'm a cleric I don't have to do any work!" kid liked father and helped him get out of being reprogrammed
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Nov 2, 2020 16:34
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Flesh Forge posted:also the shooting Mary thing was utterly baffling, it felt like a writer inserted it because they didn't feel the stakes were high enough. really just weird unless as you say maybe there are two voices with different goals I think the rest of what I said was addressed by Doctor Jeep but just want to touch on this again. We never actually see Paul hear The Voice on the show like we do with Caleb/Marcus and Campion, nor does he see any visions shown to the audience at least like Mother/Father/Marcus/Campion. He also seems to have knowledge he shouldn't, like the plans for a holy city, knowing to destroy the tarot cards (which Otho confirmed were from basically Satan worshippers), and trying to disable the lander. He also has a seemingly resurrected mouse. When pressed on these he always says that Sol told him/Sol gave him the mouse. Again though we don't actually ever see him hearing a voice like the other characters or seeing any visions. I definitely think whoever is talking to Paul is a separate entity than The Voice and is actually trying to prevent the Serpent from being born. I somewhat think its going to be whatever is caged in the big dodecahedron which is why it seems weaker than The Voice which is coming from the weird core/underworld/hell which has easy 'mind' access to everyone via those giant holes.
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Nov 3, 2020 01:43
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Maybe it just felt utterly baffling, it didn't occur to me at all that the kid was trying to prevent the baby from being born. Mary looks at her medical gizmo and says "oh poo poo!" and then boom the kid shoots her. I guess they'll come back to that in season two
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Nov 3, 2020 02:05
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Remember when they caught the parkour alien in this show and it was a neanderthal 
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Nov 4, 2020 03:02
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General Battuta posted:Remember when they caught the parkour alien in this show and it was a neanderthal I'm sure it will all make sense in the end!
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Nov 4, 2020 03:06
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tbh while this show definitely had its bizarre leaps and holes at least it didn't piss me off as bad as Prometheus.
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Nov 4, 2020 04:04
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Its way easier to forgive two mentally castrated robots and a bunch of kids making stupid decisions than a team of scientists.
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Nov 4, 2020 04:17
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Yeah that was most of it, plus the other characters all being religious fanatics. Some of the BIG IDEA story reveals would probably have worked better unstated and just shown or implied.
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Nov 4, 2020 04:19
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insider posted:I definitely think whoever is talking to Paul is a separate entity than The Voice and is actually trying to prevent the Serpent from being born. I somewhat think its going to be whatever is caged in the big dodecahedron which is why it seems weaker than The Voice which is coming from the weird core/underworld/hell which has easy 'mind' access to everyone via those giant holes. Ah poo poo, Ridley made Space Lost.
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Nov 5, 2020 03:25
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I think Campion is just young Conan in space  
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Nov 5, 2020 16:05
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Finally got around to watching the last ep and:Gonz posted:Uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh..... Indeed. Also: Cheryl Eatcock  Why is flying babbysnek some kind of loving flying catfish/lamprey, is this an inside joke? Like she did get catfished into having a baby alien. Collateral fucked around with this message at 19:06 on Nov 5, 2020 |
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Nov 5, 2020 19:00
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they didn't want it to look too weird or you might miss the point that woo hey it's the snake from the book of genesis *looks at nails* yes it's pretty clever we know
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Nov 5, 2020 19:14
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Hey Ridley how bout we name the newborn baby Snake or something? gently caress you it’s a real snake....and it flies!
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Nov 5, 2020 20:47
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Invalid Validation posted:Hey Ridley how bout we name the newborn baby Snake or something? "This is my miraculous maybe-not-human baby: Ophidia" "Too subtle, it's an actual snake."
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Nov 5, 2020 20:53
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Flesh Forge posted:they didn't want it to look too weird or you might miss the point that woo hey it's the snake from the book of genesis *looks at nails* yes it's pretty clever we know It's a little cleverer than that. The start of the show is blatantly meant to suggest a Garden of Eden scenario, Mother and Father are the original couple with the snake's presence implied by the massive skeletons. The ending subverts* this to reveal that Mother is not Eve at all but Lilith, the actual first woman and Mother of Monsters. She even has the traditional red hair. Her name Lamia, further links her to a woman whose seeking of revenge for the death of her children turns her into a semi-serpentine monster (who can remove her eyes). Iirc the showrunner said that the baby-snake looks different to the skeletons to underline that it's a new thing, a cross between snake and Mother. Kind of feel that a lot of the complaints here about the seeming lack of logic/hard sci-fi are missing the point, this is not a 'realistic' depiction of a series of events it's a fairy-tale (just as the biblical Genesis is a fairy-tale/origin myth) and told with just as much disregard for realism. It's more a Bayeux tapestry than objective reportage, or a story told by children where the dramatic beats are more important than the chain of logic joining them together. Are we watching the dramatisation of a future Paul and/or Campion's recollections? Or perhaps the story as told by the graffiti inside the dome? *imo Subversion/dashing of expectations and the assumptions underlying them is a current thing with Scott. Prometheus is the absolute pinnacle of this of course, nobody, characters or audience, gets their expectations met. And it's bloody hilarious.
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Nov 5, 2020 21:06
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The complaint is specifically about the extremely lame creature design of snakebaby, not so much the rest of the Christianity 101 elements of the plot. And lol ~subverting expectations~ 
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Nov 5, 2020 21:23
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Flesh Forge posted:The complaint is specifically about the extremely lame creature design of snakebaby, not so much the rest of the Christianity 101 elements of the plot. And lol ~subverting expectations~  Genesis is pre-Christian mythology, as is Lamia."Lame creature design" => lamprey creature design. You are literally complaining that your expectation of what a fantasy cross between an android and an alien entity should look like was not met. Cool, and so what?
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Nov 5, 2020 22:17
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"good storytelling!"
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Nov 5, 2020 22:34
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Jorgos Nuuh posted:I think Campion is just young Conan in space I can’t help but notice how much the actor’s face looks like he’s the brother of Sabrina (Kiernan Shipka).
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Nov 8, 2020 09:39
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thinking about it how is campions hair so luxurious? can the milky blood power super rapists AND serve as conditioner too?
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Nov 8, 2020 10:12
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Eau de MacGowan posted:thinking about it how is campions hair so luxurious? Turns out when you're immune to radiation it just makes your hair super awesome.
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Nov 11, 2020 00:54
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Much like fusion energy, the technology of goons washing their hair is always 50 years away, but we must do whatever possible to keep the hope alive.
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Nov 11, 2020 00:58
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Lol I forgot how Campion built up an immunity to radiation. Nice work kid!
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Nov 11, 2020 05:38
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i say swears online posted:IT'S SO GOOD
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Nov 12, 2020 07:39
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Is it worth watching Prometheus and Alien: Covenant if I enjoyed this show?
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Nov 15, 2020 10:46
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Kanine posted:Is it worth watching Prometheus and Alien: Covenant if I enjoyed this show? Give it a shot. Both of them are bad in different ways.
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Nov 15, 2020 10:57
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Kanine posted:Is it worth watching Prometheus and Alien: Covenant if I enjoyed this show?
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Nov 15, 2020 11:01
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Stray thought, I hope they're paying William Gibson royalties for calling an all-powerful artificial life form with a weird religious status Nexxxmancer.
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Nov 15, 2020 11:02
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Cingulate posted:Stray thought, I hope they're paying William Gibson royalties for calling an all-powerful artificial life form with a weird religious status Nexxxmancer.
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Nov 16, 2020 06:17
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Kanine posted:Is it worth watching Prometheus and Alien: Covenant if I enjoyed this show? the best part of raised by wolves is the androids and the same goes for those movies, watch them for David.
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Nov 16, 2020 06:30
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Ersatz posted:Up to this point the term "Necromancer" doesn't really seem to have much to do with who the character is or what she does. Remember how in the first episode Campion was stillborn?
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Nov 16, 2020 06:42
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