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That comments section is a loving cesspit.
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Nov 9, 2020 23:34
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arrested_development_dead_pigeon.gif
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Nov 9, 2020 23:40
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Mors Rattus posted:That comments section is a loving cesspit. I clicked the link, and I read them. I knew what I was going to find there. I have only myself to blame. e: some of them refer to themselves as "their wives' third child" or similar. God. paradoxGentleman fucked around with this message at 00:38 on Nov 10, 2020 |
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Nov 10, 2020 00:31
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paradoxGentleman posted:e: some of them refer to themselves as "their wives' third child" or similar. God. What the gently caress does this even mean?
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Nov 10, 2020 00:58
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Zurui posted:What the gently caress does this even mean? That they never really grew up and now some poor woman has to play mom for them.
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Nov 10, 2020 01:05
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It's honestly kind of entertaining seeing the handful commenters who are just openly saying "What? They removed the racism!? But that's specifically what I wanted!".
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Nov 10, 2020 01:06
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Zurui posted:What the gently caress does this even mean? It means they consider their wife to be their mom/caretaker more than their romantic partner/best friend/life mate. It was a facebook joke a while back that was absolutely not originally a joke, just women complaining about their terrible husbands who never help around the house, which some also-terrible men found funny. Like "my wife has to take care of me as much as she takes care of our two kids." It's a big red flag for someone to call themselves that.
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Nov 10, 2020 01:07
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I thought it was some kind of sarcastic racism thing, this is dumber.
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Nov 10, 2020 01:09
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Yeah but it's mostly complaining of how their money was spent and if they can get an older version and "SJW" and and and God. I'm so tired of this.
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Nov 10, 2020 01:09
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Leperflesh posted:https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/modiphius/robert-e-howards-conan-roleplaying-game/posts/3014286 The comments, sadly, are awful. Same on the Modiphius forums. Lots of people shouting 'I paid for the racism, how dare you take it out!'
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Nov 10, 2020 02:30
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Modiphus' approach sounds fantastic to me, respectful and actually fans of the source material but acknowledging and tuning racist elements so minor you shouldn't even notice.
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Nov 10, 2020 03:00
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Tsilkani posted:The comments, sadly, are awful. Same on the Modiphius forums. Lots of people shouting 'I paid for the racism, how dare you take it out!' Yeah it's a bit depressing. And they haven't even actually seen the text, or what's been changed, it's 100% reflexive.
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Nov 10, 2020 03:32
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Leperflesh posted:Yeah it's a bit depressing. And they haven't even actually seen the text, or what's been changed, it's 100% reflexive. It got linked to some gamergate and right wing gaming sites (i mean, rpgsite is basically just far right gaming outrage now and has been for a long time). I'm not linking the comments there, but it's far worse and runs the full 'racism, misogyny, transphobia, homophobia etc range of bigotry'. -- As an aside for anyone who ran into this, or sees it mentioned in the future, some people are up in arms that Matt Mercer was going to play a Chinese character in a livestream of Chris Spivey's game of Haunted West. Turns out Mercer didn't know what character he was going to play, and pulled out when he found out (the majority of criticism has been aimed at Mercer/Critical Role) Spivey did some not great justification but then agreed with people. I think there's a complicated argument on 'should white people be playing other ethnicities in live stream games' (L5R is a perfect example) as opposed to 'is it okay to do it in your home game' but definitely this game with its setting and messaging wasn't a good one to raise that discussion on, and anyway Mercer pulled out, albeit is still being criticised for something he didn't do. PST fucked around with this message at 20:05 on Nov 10, 2020 |
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Nov 10, 2020 19:53
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Regardless of the comments being a predictable cesspit, the post itself is good.
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Nov 10, 2020 21:01
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Please excuse the spam~  TG Secret Santa is Back Again
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Nov 11, 2020 01:20
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Tsilkani posted:The comments, sadly, are awful. Same on the Modiphius forums. Lots of people shouting 'I paid for the racism, how dare you take it out!'
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Nov 11, 2020 01:44
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Halloween Jack posted:It's as if there's just something unique about Conan. I remember, for example, people being incensed at Conan being played by Jason Momoa, who does not have Conan's "volcanic blue eyes" and it only gets worse from there. That's... not the color that volcanos are though.
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Nov 11, 2020 01:46
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paradoxGentleman posted:e: some of them refer to themselves as "their wives' third child" or similar. God. Discussion > Games > Traditional Games > TG As An Industry: I'm My Wife's Fourth Child And I'm Here To Own The Libs
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Nov 11, 2020 01:52
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PST posted:It got linked to some gamergate and right wing gaming sites (i mean, rpgsite is basically just far right gaming outrage now and has been for a long time). I'm not linking the comments there, but it's far worse and runs the full 'racism, misogyny, transphobia, homophobia etc range of bigotry'. Mercer did then happily announce that he was a white guy playing a Japanese man in the new Yakuza video game, so while in one instance he wasn't really the one in the wrong, he did commit that error for real almost immediately afterwards(yes I know the work for that was done a whole back, still wrong though).
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Nov 11, 2020 09:12
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I really struggle to see the problem with Matt Mercer doing voice work in Yakuza, is anyone here under the impression that you can dub foreign works only with the right ethnic actors?
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Nov 11, 2020 09:30
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Not So Fast posted:I really struggle to see the problem with Matt Mercer doing voice work in Yakuza, is anyone here under the impression that you can dub foreign works only with the right ethnic actors? Judging from the bile (and bilious subtweets) doing the rounds, apparently yes, his voicing a character in Yakuza is being held up as rank hypocrisy as well as being problematic on its face.
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Nov 11, 2020 09:40
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There is an entire discussion going around the last few years about "digital blackface" and stuff like that, where people want to cosume someone elses culture but not want to actually bring in or pay the people from that culture. And a big part of it is continuing the catch 22 of there are no famous "ethnic" actors so we keep hiring white guys so no one else gets famous because the white people get all the work. Similar issue for stuff like having cis people playing opposite gender trans roles(cis men playing trans women and vise versa). It's a systemic thing not just individual events and it just comes of really badly when Mercer appologises and then goes right back into happily announces he just did that thing at a bigger scale. And if you have trouble finding actors of the right ethnicity for at least the main cast in america and canada you probably suck or aren't even looking. How hard is it to find like 20 competent voice actors, they aren't even recording together usually so scheduling is a lot easier.
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Nov 11, 2020 09:51
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Not So Fast posted:I really struggle to see the problem with Matt Mercer doing voice work in Yakuza, is anyone here under the impression that you can dub foreign works only with the right ethnic actors? it's not whether you can so much as whether you should there are more than enough people out there that if you wanted to voice-over a foreign work with only people of that ethnicity, you should be able to do so
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Nov 11, 2020 09:56
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So, digging into it, the character Mercer plays, while a small part in Yakuza 7 was a significant character in two of the previous games (0 and 4), and was voiced for the English dubs in 0 and 1 previously by Mark Hamill. Here's the cast list on imdb listing both the Japanese and English versions and who voiced them, and it does look as if a lot of the English-speaking cast are, well, not Japanese. Edit: so that speaks to the issue of representation across VA and English dubs in anime/games etc. https://www.imdb.com/title/tt11121754/fullcredits?ref_=tt_cl_sm#cast Maybe the announcement of him as Majima coming right after him pulling out of the Haunted West stream is why this got attention, as it certainly didn't happen when he did the English dub for Kuroiwa in Judgment. PST fucked around with this message at 13:16 on Nov 11, 2020 |
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Nov 11, 2020 13:02
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PST posted:So, digging into it, the character Mercer plays, while a small part in Yakuza 7 was a significant character in two of the previous games (0 and 4), and was voiced for the English dubs in 0 and 1 previously by Mark Hamill. Just 1, Yakuza stopped getting dubs after the first game because it didn't do well enough to justify it. With the sudden popularity from Yakuza 0, the main Kiryu-starring games remained sub only but spinoffs like Judgment and the Fist of the North Star games started to get dubs. With 7 it's the beginning of a whole new saga post-Kiryu so they seem to be giving it a shot again. The Judgment dub is supposed to be pretty good.
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Nov 11, 2020 14:19
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Streaming RPGs are in a weird space between acting and home games, and I can imagine that it's a thorny issue about whether white people can play non-white people. My fear is that, should we (or should under represented minorities) feel that cishet white men shouldn't be playing non-cishet white men in streaming games, that the "Critical Role" effect will mean that people normalize that into their home games. At a kitchen table, you should absolutely be able to role play across race, gender, sexual identity, etc. Right? There's a difference between "I'm getting paid to do this publicly" and "I'm doing this for funsies with friends", but also, I worry that difference is going to be lost to a lot of people.
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Nov 11, 2020 15:53
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I have been playing L5R since first edition and it really strange to think I could release an audio podcast of the sessions and there is no problem but a video would be an issue. I definitely think once you are doing it as part of a business (once you have a sponsorship, or maybe even ad reads) it really changes things. Obviously people shouldn't play racist stereotypes, but that line can be tricky. Like, I have played female characters in the past. Do you end up in a situation where the GM just never includes different races/genders/sexual orientations? At the same time I have seen tons of white dudes in bathrobes at L5R ccg tournaments to know that people can definitely make things uncomfortable as hell.
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Nov 11, 2020 16:04
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PST posted:Here's the cast list on imdb listing both the Japanese and English versions and who voiced them, and it does look as if a lot of the English-speaking cast are, well, not Japanese. Edit: so that speaks to the issue of representation across VA and English dubs in anime/games etc. And you certainly can cast appropriately if you want. Sleeping Dogs had a cast of primarily Chinese descent.
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Nov 11, 2020 16:10
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CitizenKeen posted:Streaming RPGs are in a weird space between acting and home games, and I can imagine that it's a thorny issue about whether white people can play non-white people. Yes, of course! You should absolutely be able to play whoever in an RPG. The fact that it's seen as a problem here is indicative of the fact that these streams are really much closer to TV shows than they are to a bunch of friends playing D&D. In a TV show, you can put out a casting call and find someone to play whatever character. Obviously you don't do that in a home game. In streaming? If you are a small group of pals doing an AP podcast as a hobby, you aren't casting professional actors. If you are Critical Role? Then yeah, you are casting professional actors.
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Nov 11, 2020 16:11
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Jimbozig posted:Yes, of course! You should absolutely be able to play whoever in an RPG. I think the issue is that Critical Role organically grew into what it is now from a group of pals doing an AP as a hobby. AFAIK, the core group was never "cast" in any traditional sense.
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Nov 11, 2020 16:37
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whydirt posted:I think the issue is that Critical Role organically grew into what it is now from a group of pals doing an AP as a hobby. AFAIK, the core group was never "cast" in any traditional sense. His Horatio Alger origin story doesn't have much to do with the current kerfuffle, since the Asian character he was cast to play was a celebrity guest appearance on a different show and is a working voice actor. I've been legitimately surprised how many people's take on this has basically been "Poor beleaguered Matt Mercer, he didn't even know!" when the truth is he did the right thing, backed away immediately, and is fine. The real things on trial here are the practice of casting white guys as Asians and the praxis that doing so becomes morally okay at a tipping point where they make enough money. If anything, the only thing we should be talking about with Mercer is that it's high time he decenter himself. He's got enough clout and reach to push worthy projects without also having to star in them. He could host their streams, do followup interviews, and in general use his platform to advocate in ways that don't involve him taking voice roles that could go to POCs. theironjef fucked around with this message at 17:19 on Nov 11, 2020 |
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Nov 11, 2020 17:14
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Some additional thoughts on this, keeping in mind the creator that invited Mercer to play the Asian character is a non-Asian PoC: https://twitter.com/ajitgeorgeSB/status/1326372574935199744 but there were some issues with the character itself (thread retweeted by the creator): https://twitter.com/danielhkwan/status/1325921220848660480
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Nov 11, 2020 17:29
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CitizenKeen posted:Streaming RPGs are in a weird space between acting and home games, and I can imagine that it's a thorny issue about whether white people can play non-white people.
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Nov 11, 2020 17:43
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admanb posted:Some additional thoughts on this, keeping in mind the creator that invited Mercer to play the Asian character is a non-Asian PoC: That's a load bearing "well known". Is there a qualified metric for when you're officially well known enough to do whatever? Edit: I was being way too inflammatory and have removed it. My bad. theironjef fucked around with this message at 18:34 on Nov 11, 2020 |
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Nov 11, 2020 17:50
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What kinda loving wild leap and projection is that.
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Nov 11, 2020 17:58
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Matt Mercer grabbed my character sheet by the pussy once
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Nov 11, 2020 18:00
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matt mercer punched me in the gut in a subway, then he showed me the script for the next CR episode and laughed because no one would ever believe me
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Nov 11, 2020 18:01
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All I'm saying is fame isn't a viable metric for if it's okay to do things, and that the rhetoric of "it's okay to do stuff if you're famous" isn't new. I apologize for the over-escalation.
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Nov 11, 2020 18:04
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theironjef posted:That's a load bearing "well known". Is there a qualified metric for when you're officially well known enough to do whatever? Is this before or after you can grab 'em by the pussy? Did you read the rest of the thread or are you just going to “grab em by the pussy” out of reflex
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Nov 11, 2020 18:24
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thetoughestbean posted:Did you read the rest of the thread or are you just going to “grab em by the pussy” out of reflex First off I already apologized but moreover I'm more or less on Mercer's side. What I'm calling out is the rhetoric that it's okay to hire Mercer for games specifically because he's famous enough to override any discomfort caused by whitewashing a role with a wave of money and eyes. Mercer clearly doesn't want to do anything lovely.
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Nov 11, 2020 18:31
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