|
ExcessBLarg! posted:Also, "NES hard" wasn't/isn't a good thing. There's a reason why modern NES releases all include save states or rewind features and that enables people to enjoy the games of their childhood that they really couldn't before. This would be a valid criticism if it wasn't ignoring half the claim NES games were balls hard because the were $$$ and generally short as gently caress. Having to play forever to get good was the only reason they didn't feel like a rip off to parents buying them. Problem is they were hard in cheap ways, like the aforementioned spikes of death in MM and complete bullshit hitboxes in a lot of games and instant death poo poo that feels like a quarter grabbing arcade mechanic. Lots of the games had cheats built in like the konami code. Contra had several cheats because the game was nearly impossible without them. Even Mario and Zelda had hidden commands that you might count as cheats. Hollow Knight is HARD like a NES game but NOT cheap. When you die you can easily say "yeah that was my fault" 99+% of the time. It also has infinite lives. When you die you basically lose money OR not, just like thread favorite Shovel Knight. Hell, the money is USUALLY easier to get back in HK than SK. Also, it's a slow game about deliberate actions and risk management but the bosses are fast paced pattern fights, and either one of those things might put some people off. I agree that there should probably be an "easy mode" for people who want to experience the exploration without mastering the combat, but the constant danger is the point. Like, some games have great gameplay but only mediocre graphics and so people still play it, some games people play for the story, etc. A lot of the games people in the thread rave about, like DQXIS, other people don't like because they aren't for everybody. The raison d'etre of HK is the danger and tension. The fact that it ALSO has fantastic graphics and poo poo is just a bonus! If Xenoblade Chronicles didn't have the easy mode I wouldn't have made it through because I think the combat is bad, so I get it. But any significant change to make the core game of HK easier would have greatly reduced my enjoyment of it.
|
#
?
Nov 13, 2020 05:03
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 6, 2024 00:59 |
|
|
Hollow Knight is a game I really appreciate, but it is way too difficult for me to play. Actually exploring and finding cool new stuff feels really exciting, but getting lost yet again or dying over and over are just things I don't need anymore. The visuals are gorgeous though. Worth it just for that.
|
|
#
?
Nov 13, 2020 05:08
|
|
|
Hollow Knight’s ghost mechanic is actually less forgiving than the Dark Souls equivalent, I think. In Dark Souls you can level up at any bonfire, so there’s always something to spend souls on if you’re uncomfortable with how many you’re carrying around. Hollow Knight doesn’t have an option like this. I’m a big Hollow Knight defender in these arguments but I think the death system was just ill-advised. The game world is threatening enough without it.
|
|
#
?
Nov 13, 2020 05:17
|
|
|
There's no Hornet fight worse than the Hornet fight in Axiom Verge
|
|
#
?
Nov 13, 2020 05:24
|
|
|
Poque posted:There's no Hornet fight worse than the Hornet fight in Axiom Verge why are the weapons so lovely with multiple overlapping options in an otherwise okay game
|
|
#
?
Nov 13, 2020 05:36
|
|
|
The Bloop posted:I agree that there should probably be an "easy mode" for people who want to experience the exploration without mastering the combat, but the constant danger is the point. I think easy mode would go a long way. There are games with more challenging bosses (me: Megaman Zero, Monster Hunter), prettier environments (me: Castlevania), deeper platforming puzzles (me: Metroid), and harsher skill checks (me: fighting games against literally anyone with a pulse) so if HK would deign the honor of granting me any of the above without demanding that I prove myself worthy I might invest more time in it as opposed to anything else I mentioned.
|
|
#
?
Nov 13, 2020 05:56
|
|
|
I don't think Hollow Knight is anywhere close to "NES hard" anyway unless we are talking about some of the endgame optional bosses. An easy mode would probably for people who have difficulies with it though. As it is HK is like specifically made to my exact personal states
|
|
#
?
Nov 13, 2020 06:00
|
|
|
Nabbed a Game & Watch from gamestop website! Can't wait for it to come, I've been really looking forward to it.
|
|
#
?
Nov 13, 2020 06:17
|
|
|
Is the samurai jack game decent ? It’s on sale right now.
|
|
#
?
Nov 13, 2020 06:20
|
|
|
AlphaKeny1 posted:Nabbed a Game & Watch from gamestop website! Can't wait for it to come, I've been really looking forward to it. drat i just missed it!
|
|
#
?
Nov 13, 2020 06:26
|
|
|
Try again at midnight PST if you can, the other stores might have it.
|
|
#
?
Nov 13, 2020 06:30
|
|
|
AlphaKeny1 posted:Try again at midnight PST if you can, the other stores might have it. Good call! Hopefully they do. I had one when I was a kid and I have been looking forward to this thing.
|
|
#
?
Nov 13, 2020 06:38
|
|
|
Mr Phillby posted:The problem is that the tension comes from losing progress, the ghost busywork just feels extraneous and works against the open nature of the game. yeah ok if you're going to approach it by taking every single individual piece of the game and only relate it to whatever did it first, then it isn't very much like dark souls, I'll grant you that, but only because dark souls is an ocarina of time clone
|
|
#
?
Nov 13, 2020 06:48
|
|
|
Rupert Buttermilk posted:But you can make your own teams! Who needs licensing? You can now play as the Miami Beerfarts, or the Cincinnati Mice! I think this is the reason why the only other sports games that take off without real world licenses are tie-in ones like the Mario sports games, since even if people can't play as their favourite real world team they at least have a team that they already know and have a connection to. Always fun when you have both, like Sonic cameoing in that one soccer game and Little Mac in a boxing game.
|
|
#
?
Nov 13, 2020 07:00
|
|
|
ok ha ha bestbuy lemme buy a game an watch already
|
|
#
?
Nov 13, 2020 07:04
|
|
|
Junkie Disease posted:ok ha ha bestbuy lemme buy a game an watch already it's up in best buy with a queue now!
|
|
#
?
Nov 13, 2020 07:09
|
|
|
AlphaKeny1 posted:it's up in best buy with a queue now! Score! thanky this will go nicely with my G&W 4 from my childhood
|
|
#
?
Nov 13, 2020 07:10
|
|
|
I'm still salty about the evil mantis boss in hollow knight. I was having a great time and that guy was just a hard stop. When I found out he'd been buffed by a patch and would've been fine if I'd fought him before it, I never really tried again. Even after people told me what charms to use to cheese it, that just soured me on the game. I don't _want_ to cheese it - I want the fight to just be, you know, not terrible bullshit.
|
|
#
?
Nov 13, 2020 07:18
|
|
|
Also there's this place in the beginning-ish of the game where a hallway collapses and opens a hole to darknest. I wanna say it was by the part that has the exploding fungal enemies? I fell in and ended up in darknest without the lantern and had to fight my way back. It was insane and intense and super fun; I feel like if I can do that and get as far as I did I'm within my rights to just say that evil mantis fight is bad
|
|
#
?
Nov 13, 2020 07:22
|
|
|
I don't mind the added attacks, adds more variety to the fight, but giving the Traitor Lord double damage was a bit much.
|
|
#
?
Nov 13, 2020 07:26
|
|
|
Oh yeah I didn't realize he got new attacks - it was the damage buff that made me say "what the gently caress". I wanna say there was an hp buff too but could be misremembering. That's not such a big deal though
|
|
#
?
Nov 13, 2020 07:31
|
|
|
I seem to remember being able to dash through attacks sometimes, but sometimes I'd take damage and could never figure out how to tell which was which, or what I was doing wrong. I imagine it was a recharge thing with an indicator that was coded in a way I have trouble seeing; does that ring a bell?
|
|
#
?
Nov 13, 2020 07:35
|
|
|
Hollow Knight has some challenges, and the very last stuff, white palace and final boss, are very difficult. But most of the exploring isn't too bad, especially once you know what to expect. I'd say the platforming is often more challenging than the actual mobs wandering around.
|
|
#
?
Nov 13, 2020 09:10
|
|
|
Achmed Jones posted:Oh yeah I didn't realize he got new attacks - it was the damage buff that made me say "what the gently caress". I wanna say there was an hp buff too but could be misremembering. That's not such a big deal though Yeah Traitor Lord only had like, 2 attacks. The diving attack and dashing towards you. Not much to him before. The attack additions were fine to make it more of a dynamic fight, but double damage was way over the top. No HP buff thankfully. Achmed Jones posted:I seem to remember being able to dash through attacks sometimes, but sometimes I'd take damage and could never figure out how to tell which was which, or what I was doing wrong. I imagine it was a recharge thing with an indicator that was coded in a way I have trouble seeing; does that ring a bell? That would be the shadow dash I believe. It has a recharge, so you can't just dash through attacks willy nily. iirc the indicator that it's recharged is that there's a burst of blackness coming from the Knight, and the indicator that it's ready to use is like a black aura or particle effects coming from the Knight.
|
|
#
?
Nov 13, 2020 09:44
|
|
|
Yeah, it's the shadow dash. The recharge indicator is a bunch of black particles flying around the Knight and being absorbed into its body after a couple seconds.
|
|
#
?
Nov 13, 2020 09:53
|
|
|
drat, now I want to do another Hollow Knight playthrough. Gotta get back to Phoenotopia first, though. Barely made a dent on that one...
|
|
#
?
Nov 13, 2020 10:12
|
|
|
Can't wait for Silk Song 
|
|
#
?
Nov 13, 2020 10:46
|
|
|
Quantum of Phallus posted:Can't wait for Silk Song Gonna be good
|
|
#
?
Nov 13, 2020 10:55
|
|
|
ExcessBLarg! posted:Thing is, there's a lot to enjoy in Hollow Knight even for people who may not be as adept at the bosses or otherwise turned off by the death mechanic. It's neat, maybe, but it's not essential. Celeste does it right with an assist mode that allows players with less skill (or even accessibility difficulties) enjoy the entire game on their own terms.. From what I understand about Celeste the entire game is structured around the idea of doing what you can and positive affirmation and accessibility, based on the creator's struggles with anxiety. That's great, but it doesn't mean every other game has to take the exact same approach. It's ok for some games not to appeal to everyone and they don't have to try imo. There's a million reasons people bounce off games and difficulty is just one of them. Just as Celeste is built around inclusivity and customisation of the difficulty level, Hollow Knight is built around the initial feelings of isolation, fear and powerlessness giving way over many hours of methodical perseverance to a greater understanding of the world and your increasing skill, power and influence within it. Sure they could offer an 'easy mode' or whatever and that would allow a certain chunk of gamers who were otherwise put off by the process to see more of the game, but would they enjoy it and understand it the same as if they'd struggled through like everyone else? Evidently the creators think not, and that's ok. I've bounced off Dark Souls a few times but that's purely down to me not giving enough of a poo poo to persevere and push through the initial stages. I don't think the game is bad or should include settings that make it easier for me to get into, because I know it's on me to get over that initial hump.
|
|
#
?
Nov 13, 2020 11:23
|
|
|
I thought Nier automata had a cool system where rather than just setting a difficulty mode you had modules that made certain tasks automated in combat. I don't know if that was the intention but it meant that it was a way more accessible game for my disabled wife as well has having a decently challenging combat system
|
|
#
?
Nov 13, 2020 11:37
|
|
|
You cheated not only the game but yourself....
|
|
#
?
Nov 13, 2020 11:38
|
|
|
Sakurazuka posted:You cheated not only the game but yourself.... I do think the conversation on difficulty has been poisoned by this type of gamer. Like I think Butterfly Valley makes a good point, difficulty is part of the language of games and can be used to convey the themes of a title as much if not more than the written story. And to follow that through it's equally valid to have games that want everyone to win through assist modes and difficulty settings as it is games that want you to suffer and die and it's at the developer's discretion to what type of experience they want to create.
|
|
#
?
Nov 13, 2020 11:52
|
|
|
ExcessBLarg! posted:Does he have the OEM power adapter or is that also missing? Best Buy replaced it with their other store brand ricketfish which is currently* $25 for their black friday sale *It was yesterday
|
|
#
?
Nov 13, 2020 12:02
|
|
|
If hollow knight is an eight out of ten then shovel knight is a ten
|
|
#
?
Nov 13, 2020 12:32
|
|
|
I want silk song so much A whole new nest to explore 
|
|
#
?
Nov 13, 2020 13:21
|
|
|
I liked the game overall even though I’m usually pretty bad at them but those boss fights have way too much health.
|
|
#
?
Nov 13, 2020 13:47
|
|
|
If someone thinks something sucks for then stop trying to convince them otherwise, if your going to say not every game is for everyone then you can't discount people's personal problems with a game. Take the lumps. Just becuse someone dosn't like something dosnt mean its an attack on you, your tastes or, your sensibilities. Also Hollow Knight puts me to sleep its too soft and inviting, and I just want to grab a blanket and take a nap.
|
|
#
?
Nov 13, 2020 14:25
|
|
|
dbzfandiego posted:If someone thinks something sucks for then stop trying to convince them otherwise, if your going to say not every game is for everyone then you can't discount people's personal problems with a game. Nobody’s saying that people who claim to dislike Hollow Knight actually secretly enjoyed it or something, what are you talking about? The pushback is against the idea that every single game needs to have an easy mode added.
|
|
#
?
Nov 13, 2020 14:33
|
|
|
Hollow Knight was amazing my first time through but every subsequent time I've played it, I become demoralized remembering how huge it is and how easy it is to waste hours getting lost, and the insanely poor movement in the early game does it no favours.
|
|
#
?
Nov 13, 2020 14:37
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 6, 2024 00:59 |
|
|
Snake Maze posted:Nobody’s saying that people who claim to dislike Hollow Knight actually secretly enjoyed it or something, what are you talking about? The pushback is against the idea that every single game needs to have an easy mode added. I don't know if that's the takeaway I have from this Hollow Knight conversation. There are a lot of ways you could adjust the game without removing the sense of risk and threat from exploring. People have different skill levels and abilities, so someone could make the game easier for themselves and their personal experience would be just as difficult as yours. I also didn't think Hollow Knight's main draw for me was the difficulty. The worldbuilding, lore, music, everything in it was really well done, and the game being tough and scary added to the atmosphere, but not to the point where I thought it would be ruined by flexibility. Adding options would be great if it meant people who bounced off it got to experience the whole thing.
|
|
#
?
Nov 13, 2020 14:39
|
|
