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Wear one of those posh people bibs from the old cartoons and nothing else.
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Nov 16, 2020 22:56
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Ehh, it's going to be a slow process. We've had the last five years seeing every multiple example of the party, press and blue ticks maliciously misrepresent drat near aspect of Corbyn, you can't expect someone to pick that up in a day or even a week without there being some underlying "That... That can't be right can it? They couldn't have gotten away with that, could they?"
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Nov 16, 2020 22:57
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suck my woke dick posted:Three reasons come to mind why people don't want to change for the better Another reason I was reading about is that to say you are wrong usually means you have to reject your current in group and without a new one to join you are leaving yourself emotionally exposed. https://jamesclear.com/why-facts-dont-change-minds
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Nov 16, 2020 22:59
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The press only treated Corbyn in the best of faith
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Nov 16, 2020 23:05
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notaspy posted:Another reason I was reading about is that to say you are wrong usually means you have to reject your current in group and without a new one to join you are leaving yourself emotionally exposed. This won't effect me because I have no ingroup! HAhaahaaohno. suck my woke dick posted:Three reasons come to mind why people don't want to change for the better Those are so sad.
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Nov 16, 2020 23:17
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notaspy posted:Another reason I was reading about is that to say you are wrong usually means you have to reject your current in group and without a new one to join you are leaving yourself emotionally exposed. If that is the case it presumably also works the other way where if your ingroup changes (either compositionally or idealistically) then you are likely to change to fit in. Which would fit my observations.
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Nov 16, 2020 23:21
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BBC News - Boris Johnson 'called Scottish devolution disaster' https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-54965585 gently caress this gormless dickhead. "The PM has always supported devolution. But only when it's not used by separatists and nationalists trying to break up the UK" So basically. You only like devolution when you have a boot licker in power
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Nov 16, 2020 23:22
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therattle posted:I was thinking about Armistice Day and Corbyn, for obvious reasons, when he wore an M&S raincoat to the wreath-laying ceremony. So why did he do that? His supporters wouldn't have thought less of him for wearing proper garb to pay one's respects (which, to be honest, is what the working men he was paying respects to would have expected too). I would be very surprised if that won him a single vote, because it's a gesture that plays to the converted. But I bet it lost him votes, because when faced with a hostile media, he gave them fresh meat. That is either stubbornness and a kind of vanity masquerading as principle, or political foolishness. Incompetent politicking, on something that would not actually have compromised his principles or integrity one iota. It's nice that you've done what everyone clearly should do more frequently & admitted I am right, but then you post this extended fart noise. Why did he wear a M&S raincoat to a wreath-laying ceremony? I can't tell you exactly why because I'm not a mind-reader but I suspect it's because that was the coat he had. I doubt he gave it more thought than that because he's not a complete loving psycho. Which you have to be to spend 5 seconds wondering "what coat is acceptable to wear to the cenotaph?" It's a cold day, you put on a coat & you go out the door. If that counts as incompetent politicking then excuse me while I toot my own horn again but clearly parliamentary democracy is too stupid to engage with.
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Nov 16, 2020 23:26
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forkboy84 posted:It's nice that you've done what everyone clearly should do more frequently & admitted I am right, but then you post this extended fart noise. Why did he wear a M&S raincoat to a wreath-laying ceremony? I can't tell you exactly why because I'm not a mind-reader but I suspect it's because that was the coat he had. I doubt he gave it more thought than that because he's not a complete loving psycho. Which you have to be to spend 5 seconds wondering "what coat is acceptable to wear to the cenotaph?" It's a cold day, you put on a coat & you go out the door. If that counts as incompetent politicking then excuse me while I toot my own horn again but clearly parliamentary democracy is too stupid to engage with. It depends on what your idea of politics is. If it involves solving actual problems, you're right. If you're just playing the game and minmaxing your way into failing up the ladder, then clearly you should spend way more time thinking about which brand and colour of coat to wear to the cenotaph than about silly things like how to fund veterans' healthcare adequately. The problem is solving actual problems doesn't get rewarded as much as minmaxing your way into failing into the prime ministership.
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Nov 16, 2020 23:31
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I CANNOT EJACULATE WITHOUT SEEING NATIVE AMERICANS BRUTALISED!
suck my woke dick posted:It depends on what your idea of politics is. If it involves solving actual problems, you're right. If you're just playing the game and minmaxing your way into failing up the ladder, then clearly you should spend way more time thinking about which brand and colour of coat to wear to the cenotaph than about silly things like how to fund veterans' healthcare adequately. Boris Johnson turns up to work every day looking like someone shaved an Owl and punted it through a carwash.
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Nov 16, 2020 23:34
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Vigil for Virgil posted:Boris Johnson turns up to work every day looking like someone shaved an Owl and punted it through a carwash. Yeah but that's part of a very specific image he cultivates, and he does wear a (poorly fitted, ugly) suit to look like the people's toff. Corbs just dressed like an actual regular person and we can't have that.
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Nov 16, 2020 23:39
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CGI Stardust posted:The press only treated Corbyn in the best of faith 1984 convinced me that the mind control would be subtle and delicate: Individual changes in specific wordings across every piece of archived misinformation but nope, turns out dumb and stupid works just as well because all people really want is an excuse to kick down, no matter how flimsy.
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Nov 16, 2020 23:39
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Disnesquick posted:1984 convinced me that the mind control would be subtle and delicate: Individual changes in specific wordings across every piece of archived misinformation but nope, turns out dumb and stupid works just as well because all people really want is an excuse to kick down, no matter how flimsy. 
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Nov 16, 2020 23:39
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Disnesquick posted:1984 convinced me that the mind control would be subtle and delicate: Individual changes in specific wordings across every piece of archived misinformation but nope, turns out dumb and stupid works just as well because all people really want is an excuse to kick down, no matter how flimsy.
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Nov 16, 2020 23:46
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suck my woke dick posted:It depends on what your idea of politics is. If it involves solving actual problems, you're right. If you're just playing the game and minmaxing your way into failing up the ladder, then clearly you should spend way more time thinking about which brand and colour of coat to wear to the cenotaph than about silly things like how to fund veterans' healthcare adequately. If politics is just going to be virtue signalling then at some point it stops being politics & is something like the worlds dullest reality TV show. If he wore the right jacket they'd have attacked him for not bowing properly. If he bowed properly they'd find some other irrelevancy to attack him for because that's what happened consistently for 4 years. You can argue he should have played the game but you're wrong. The game is a stupid distraction aimed to ensure no one from outwith an incredibly narrow realm of acceptability as defined by a very small group of middle class & upper class twats gets to play, & even if you do engage with it you'll find the rules changing constantly. It can't be won from that perspective. I dont really know why I quoted you, it's not like we're disagreeing.
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Nov 16, 2020 23:46
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forkboy84 posted:If politics is just going to be virtue signalling then at some point it stops being politics & is something like the worlds dullest reality TV show. If he wore the right jacket they'd have attacked him for not bowing properly. If he bowed properly they'd find some other irrelevancy to attack him for because that's what happened consistently for 4 years.
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Nov 16, 2020 23:52
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forkboy84 posted:If politics is just going to be virtue signalling then at some point it stops being politics & is something like the worlds dullest reality TV show Waaaaaaaaay too fukken late
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Nov 16, 2020 23:54
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CGI Stardust posted:Just to add to this, Ed Miliband played the game, and became Ed "Two Kitchens Elite whose Marxist Dad hated Britain, also he can't eat a bacon sandwich properly" Miliband All of which were anti-Semitic dog whistles, but that didn't stop the British press.
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Nov 16, 2020 23:56
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The thing I hate most discussing Corbyn with people who bought the press lies is when you point out the report etc get told he was a bad leader and when asking how you reconcile people who refused him permanently just get hanfwaved away he was a bad leader So what I'm saying is be the biggest starmer wreckers possible if you're still a member
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Nov 16, 2020 23:56
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https://twitter.com/DMReporter/status/1328471896078372867 So the Mail has decided to actively try to kill anyone over 70.
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Nov 16, 2020 23:57
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I support the mail killing it's readers
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Nov 16, 2020 23:59
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forkboy84 posted:If politics is just going to be virtue signalling then at some point it stops being politics & is something like the worlds dullest reality TV show. If he wore the right jacket they'd have attacked him for not bowing properly. If he bowed properly they'd find some other irrelevancy to attack him for because that's what happened consistently for 4 years. You can argue he should have played the game but you're wrong. The game is a stupid distraction aimed to ensure no one from outwith an incredibly narrow realm of acceptability as defined by a very small group of middle class & upper class twats gets to play, & even if you do engage with it you'll find the rules changing constantly. It can't be won from that perspective. I actually agree with this. But I think if you try and play the game a little bit then you might not lose as badly. forkboy84 posted:It's nice that you've done what everyone clearly should do more frequently & admitted I am right, but then you post this extended fart noise. Why did he wear a M&S raincoat to a wreath-laying ceremony? I can't tell you exactly why because I'm not a mind-reader but I suspect it's because that was the coat he had. I doubt he gave it more thought than that because he's not a complete loving psycho. Which you have to be to spend 5 seconds wondering "what coat is acceptable to wear to the cenotaph?" It's a cold day, you put on a coat & you go out the door. If that counts as incompetent politicking then excuse me while I toot my own horn again but clearly parliamentary democracy is too stupid to engage with. Disagree. As a politician, a bit of you should be thinking of how you appear when you go to a high-profile public event. WhatEvil posted:If you think that all that bullshit about Corbyn's choice of coat is a sign of his incompetence moreso than it is a sign of the other million loving things wrong with the UK then you're simply not worth listening to, about anything. It's both. His treatment by the media was awful. I don't think he did much to help himself. You can think that it wouldn't have mattered. I get that. I just don't agree. That's not an awful opinion to hold. Julio Cruz posted:imagine fully acknowledging that Corbyn was constantly confronted by a hostile press but also thinking that if he'd worn a posh coat they would have been nice to him They would never have been nice to him. But they might have had less opportunity to be poo poo, and when they were poo poo it might have seemed less plausible. That's my point. ronya made a post a few days ago contrasting McDonnell's and Corbyn's responses to a similar issue (IRA, I believe). McDonnell played it more carefully; Corbyn didn't give a poo poo how he was perceived, despite knowing that his perspective was unpopular. Maybe that's why people like him. Probably. But I don't think it's going to win you elections.
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Nov 17, 2020 00:00
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Jose posted:The thing I hate most discussing Corbyn with people who bought the press lies is when you point out the report etc get told he was a bad leader and when asking how you reconcile people who refused him permanently just get hanfwaved away he was a bad leader He lost the dressing room.
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Nov 17, 2020 00:01
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If only Corbyn wore a nice suit and not given them an easy angle of attack, the press would've had no option but to treat him fairly and certainly wouldn't have cut together multiple stills of him walking and told everyone he was dancing on our brave boys' graves. Oh wait, that did still happen, didn't it?
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Nov 17, 2020 00:03
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therattle posted:Disagree. As a politician, a bit of you should be thinking of how you appear when you go to a high-profile public event. What was wrong with what he wore? What could he have worn that would have been "appropriately respectful" while also not get him lambasted as a "champagne socialist" because it's not a cloth bag? It's so mind numbingly stupid. forkboy84 fucked around with this message at 00:12 on Nov 17, 2020 |
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Nov 17, 2020 00:09
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therattle posted:
When he was walking along, talking to a loving veteran, in a normal, respectful way? A veteran they cropped out of the shot. Remember that loving time? It was I think the second or third time out, and the Mail couldn't find anything with even a scent of legitimacy to smear him with so they just went through every frame of continuous high definition photography they'd shot for the entire hour plus he was out there and invented something completely spurious to get angry about. They. Would. Never. Relent. No matter what he did, not matter what coat he wore, or how low he bowed, or how much the other people there made colossal fuckups, because they were not there to deliver an unbiased reporting of events, they were there to deliver Corbyn smears. And you loving bought it. You rube. thespaceinvader fucked around with this message at 00:12 on Nov 17, 2020 |
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Nov 17, 2020 00:09
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That, of course, was baseless and everyone could see that, but the normal coat, that is something I already think is disrespectful and so it was objectively the wrong thing to do.
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Nov 17, 2020 00:12
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Jose posted:I support the mail killing it's readers Shocking scenes as Corbyn expresses his open support for a known antisemitic media outlet AND says we should kill pensioners.
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Nov 17, 2020 00:13
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forkboy84 posted:If politics is just going to be virtue signalling then at some point it stops being politics & is something like the worlds dullest reality TV show. If he wore the right jacket they'd have attacked him for not bowing properly. If he bowed properly they'd find some other irrelevancy to attack him for because that's what happened consistently for 4 years. You can argue he should have played the game but you're wrong. The game is a stupid distraction aimed to ensure no one from outwith an incredibly narrow realm of acceptability as defined by a very small group of middle class & upper class twats gets to play, & even if you do engage with it you'll find the rules changing constantly. It can't be won from that perspective. Note: If Corbyn had wanted to play the game, he'd have sold out and become a neoliberal mouthpiece instead of having any ideas of his own.
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Nov 17, 2020 00:15
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OwlFancier posted:That, of course, was baseless and everyone could see that, but the normal coat, that is something I already think is disrespectful and so it was objectively the wrong thing to do. Everyone who stays plugged into following this stuff could see that, yeah. That's, what, 5% of the population at a generous estimate? The rest saw it as yet another example of Corbyn's hatred of Britain.
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Nov 17, 2020 00:16
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Jose posted:I support the mail killing it's readers harsh but fair
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Nov 17, 2020 00:18
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So, I clearly have something of a personal prejudice against Corbyn: I don't particularly like him or think that he was a good leader. I believe that examples I come up with support my view. However, I can recognise that my view may be distorted by what I have read (or haven't read). I think most people construct arguments and pick facts to suit prejudices, and that is possibly/probably/almost certainly what I am doing. On the other hand, there is stuff like Andrew Fisher's resignation, which is quite damning. A misunderstood analysis of the AS issue didn't help - although as I said, I think he could have handled it better. I listened to/watched/read a fair amount of PMQs and thought that he was pretty weak, against a poor government which was loving up left right and centre. I think Iran is a horrible regime and he has happily appeared on the state TV channel. Etc etc. I completely agree that the press was virulently hostile. I have probably been influenced by some of that. I think that maybe it would have been better for him if he had played along a bit, but maybe that isn't true. I don't really know. It wouldn''t have lessened the attacks but I think the attacks may have been more toothless, but it's impossible to prove either way. Perhaps it wouldn't have made a blind bit of difference. Despite my prejudice I really wanted Labour to win in 2017 and 2019, and part of my disappointment in him is that he did not play the game a bit to make that possible. We can differ on whether it would have done anything.
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Nov 17, 2020 00:18
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All my grandparents are long dead, but... Is holding your nans hand a Christmas tradition?
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Nov 17, 2020 00:20
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therattle posted:We can differ on whether it would have done anything. You can go ahead and keep being wrong if you want, IDK, you do you. Failed Imagineer posted:All my grandparents are long dead, but... Is holding your nans hand a Christmas tradition? Absolutely something I definitely did every Christmas, as opposed to suffering a brief kiss and cuddle then going and watching TV.
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Nov 17, 2020 00:21
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Failed Imagineer posted:All my grandparents are long dead, but... Is holding your nans hand a Christmas tradition? my grandparents shuffled off the mortal coil ~15 years ago but it feels appropriate to round out 2020 in the bony grasp of the dead
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Nov 17, 2020 00:28
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The only thing Corbyn did wrong was not purging labour hq when he came in.
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Nov 17, 2020 00:29
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Jose posted:The thing I hate most discussing Corbyn with people who bought the press lies is when you point out the report etc get told he was a bad leader and when asking how you reconcile people who refused him permanently just get hanfwaved away he was a bad leader sometimes i just agree with the point and don't clarify that my vision of good leadership would be directed by guy Ritchie and feature a big lad called "the dentist"
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Nov 17, 2020 00:33
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The only thing Corbyn did wrong was trying to be a socialist in late capitalism. That was an error on his part, did he think of trying milquetoast centrism and reassuring the ruling class that better things aren't possible?Rumda posted:The only thing Corbyn did wrong was not purging labour hq when he came in. In all seriousness, whilst I think this is true, he would probably have failed nonetheless if he'd done it - partly because the beauraucracy of the Labour party is hosed from like... CLP leadership in some cases, right on up, partly because a lot fo the power lies with the PLP who he couldn't remove, and partly because if he'd managed to overcome both of those and succeeded in purging the beauraucracy... now he's got nobody running the party, and nowhere to get competent experienced people to do it. I am honestly unsure there was ever a route to better things that involved electoralism under our current system, much as I believed that there was at the time.
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Nov 17, 2020 00:34
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Failed Imagineer posted:All my grandparents are long dead, but... Is holding your nans hand a Christmas tradition? Wow, you don't dig up your nan's grave & hold her hand? Outrageous. therattle posted:So, I clearly have something of a personal prejudice against Corbyn: I don't particularly like him or think that he was a good leader. I believe that examples I come up with support my view. However, I can recognise that my view may be distorted by what I have read (or haven't read). I think most people construct arguments and pick facts to suit prejudices, and that is possibly/probably/almost certainly what I am doing. On the other hand, there is stuff like Andrew Fisher's resignation, which is quite damning. A misunderstood analysis of the AS issue didn't help - although as I said, I think he could have handled it better. I listened to/watched/read a fair amount of PMQs and thought that he was pretty weak, against a poor government which was loving up left right and centre. I think Iran is a horrible regime and he has happily appeared on the state TV channel. Etc etc. Jeremy Corbyn being a bad leader is pretty undisputable. We know this because we look at where Labour is today & it's been given back to the melts. He didn't have the nastiness required for the job. And yet he was still the best person for the job on the ballot in 2015 & 2016. My problems about Corbyn are that he had a majority in the NEC & could've brought in open primaries so local members can punt hated MPs who were parachuted into a safe seat (hiya Kate Hoey) rather than have to lump it. He was too naive & optimistic & didn't imagine MPs would rather sink the Labour Party than see a Labour left lead party win a general election (which was loving stupid of him, he should remember the SDP well enough, he only won his seat in 1983 because of it, irony of ironies). Most of the rest of it was empty presentation stuff & I don't care. And yes I'm being hypocritical holding Keith to those standards, well gently caress him for being a lib, I'll rip him down on every single thing I can after those 4 years of venom & hatred towards the Labour left (hell, 5 years, even today we're seeing fuckwits in the establishment decide that pissweak social democrat Owen Jones is somehow the second coming of Oswald Mosley?) Corbyn was soft & thought the best of people & squandered quite possibly the only chance the left will have to take power in our lifetime because he was too nice & I doubt I'll ever forgive him for that. I dunno, lots of politicians appear on state TV of a horrible country (the BBC) & I don't see you greeting about that.
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Nov 17, 2020 00:38
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therattle posted:I actually agree with this. But I think if you try and play the game a little bit then you might not lose as badly. You still lose though so that's nonsense. No, it shouldn't. Yes, it is an awful opinion.
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Nov 17, 2020 00:46
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