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Some Goon posted:The only reason Apple can make this work is because the produce both the hardware and the software. Microsoft would have to (again) write Windows-on-ARM on spec and hope that manufacturers will produce ARM devices, and that developers won't just ignore it, whereas Apple can just strongarm everyone. I'm not saying it's impossible that the market will shift such that MS/Intel/Clevo are all on the same page, but I am going to stand over here eyeing the suggestion dismissively. apple also controls much more of the software on the mac than microsoft does on pcs. other than chrome what's the most popular non electron app on mac? maybe something from adobe? or ms office? apple can plausibly have a launch where 95% of the software users actually use is already optimized for their new hardware. microsoft is never going to be able to do that
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Nov 16, 2020 19:36
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Bob Morales posted:Developers won't write apps for a phone without a userbase, and a userbase won't switch to a phone without any apps. Yes. I literally made that point. The rest of it was that if Microsoft manages to make a version of windows on arm sufficiently attractive to grow a developer base they’ll have solved the biggest problem plaguing windows phone since a phone running windows software would suddenly have all these apps available, the inverse of what apple is doing on the desktop. That is, however, a big if
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Nov 16, 2020 19:38
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I feel like MS is gonna have to reach into their coffers and spend a lot, but they’re also arguably in a place to do it: MS directly controls Windows, MS Office, VStudio, and all of the games and developers that MS has bought or built, which is many. So if they want to push ARM as a platform for Windows they have to 1) make the best version of Windows for ARM that they can with Rosetta 2-class emulation for x86 apps. 2) They need native productivity apps day 1, which they already have- Office on ARM Windows is great, as it is on iOS and Android. Electron and Google apps will probably be fine. So that’s more or less solved. 3) They need to get a critical mass of games that they own running well enough on ARM, either through emulation or natively. That’s the hardest and most expensive part, I think. If they can do those, then the music and multimedia and creative apps, etc will follow, as Apple is already gonna be pushing many of them (your Abletons and Adobes and so forth).
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Nov 16, 2020 19:52
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Fame Douglas posted:Instagram has already opted out of letting their app run on Macs. I wonder why that is?
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Nov 16, 2020 20:01
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Ok Comboomer posted:I feel like MS is gonna have to reach into their coffers and spend a lot, but they’re also arguably in a place to do it: Yeah, I feel like one area where MS does themselves a big disservice is by not allowing their 1st and 2nd party games developers to port and release versions of Xbox games on the Switch. Yeah, it's a "competitor" to the XBox, but not really, and if/when they do want to push Windows on ARM, like you said, they could already have gaming somewhat ready from Day 1 via moving Switch ports over.
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Nov 16, 2020 20:01
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Looks like my M1 Macbook Air is getting delivered tomorrrow 
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Nov 16, 2020 20:02
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SourKraut posted:Yeah, it's a "competitor" to the XBox, but not really, Now they have a sku that's a direct competitor price wise, if not in portability: the XSeS. But yeah, not putting the Rare Collection or Viva Pinata onto the Switch is probably leaving money on the table.
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Nov 16, 2020 20:10
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SourKraut posted:Yeah, I feel like one area where MS does themselves a big disservice is by not allowing their 1st and 2nd party games developers to port and release versions of Xbox games on the Switch. Yeah, it's a "competitor" to the XBox, but not really, and if/when they do want to push Windows on ARM, like you said, they could already have gaming somewhat ready from Day 1 via moving Switch ports over. The way I picture it, it only really makes sense to target ultraportables and <$1k notebooks (and if a builder decides to make a mini desktop PC down the road off of that template then that’s gravy) with ARM at first. So MS doesn’t need to have all Windows software or all games running 100% to successfully pull off the introduction. They need to have enough games and enough apps running well enough for somebody buying a $1k laptop or cheaper PC to feel like they’re getting a good deal from the architecture switch. Then if benefits at the higher end materialize that base can push the adoption of ARM in beefier systems running more demanding software. Get a bunch of Bethesda and iD titles running decently on ARM, at least as good as Switch which shouldn’t be the hardest thing, get your Minecraft and your Forza, get Halo on there (lol, ok maybe this is actually gonna be impossible). arbybaconator posted:Looks like my M1 Macbook Air is getting delivered tomorrrow You’re gonna have to give us an initial trip report trilobite terror fucked around with this message at 20:17 on Nov 16, 2020 |
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Nov 16, 2020 20:14
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arbybaconator posted:I wonder why that is? Instagram wants you to do things and share pictures of you doing things that you took with your phone. Everything else impacts the experience they’re trying to give you.
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Nov 16, 2020 20:21
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Costco is stocking the M1 Macs now, $50 off and 2 or 4 year warranty included. https://www.costco.com/macbooks.html
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Nov 16, 2020 20:50
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jokes posted:I’m weirdly excited about a Mac that can run iOS apps. There are a lot of apps that just aren’t as good on desktop that are great on mobile. Having a little window on the left of your screen that’s running Instagram or something would be nice. I'm curious how many other people are excited for this. Maybe it's just me, but I'm really . . . not. Using touch UIs on a computer is usually pretty bad, and I could definitely see folks discontinuing their macOS apps because they also have an iPhone app available.
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Nov 16, 2020 21:09
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Kreeblah posted:I'm curious how many other people are excited for this. I am but it’s very much going to be an app by app thing. Some will be great, many won’t.
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Nov 16, 2020 21:13
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Kreeblah posted:I'm curious how many other people are excited for this. yeah I’m not thrilled, and I’m definitely not thrilled about being given the opportunity to download a bunch of service-specific and single-function apps to my Mac. Like, yay the Netflix app on my desktop. And the TD bank app. And Adult Swim. And TGI Friday’s. And the worst versions of lots of multiplat games. Most of the iOS games I’d want to play on Mac are already on Mac, albeit perhaps more expensively thanks to iOS pricing vs Steam pricing or whatever. If they run better then great but I don’t really want things to be potentially downgraded because it’s easier. I can’t see anything on my iPhone or iPad that I want on my Mac. Maybe some music apps and Aus/VSTs, but the Aus/VSTs are already compatible so whatever.
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Nov 16, 2020 21:21
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The press embargo for M1 Macs is 9am Eastern. Which is insane, because they go on sale here in Australia in 90mins. What a bizarre choice.
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Nov 16, 2020 21:24
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Ok Comboomer posted:yeah I’m not thrilled, and I’m definitely not thrilled about being given the opportunity to download a bunch of service-specific and single-function apps to my Mac. Like, yay the Netflix app on my desktop. And the TD bank app. And Adult Swim. And TGI Friday’s. And the worst versions of lots of multiplat games. What about App clips or whatever that dumb idea was
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Nov 16, 2020 21:43
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App clips (iirc) was actually a really good idea where you could access the services offered by an app (Lyft, Yelp) without having to download a whole app and create an account. Good use case for people on vacation, although that doesn't really happen anymore.
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Nov 16, 2020 21:44
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Some Goon posted:If a company ever says "up to" your bullshit alarm should be tingling, and if you gotta read the fine print to see what they're comparing, they're trying to spin because they can't make the claims they want to outright. Baronash posted:Yeah, I don’t know how this could possibly hold up given the presentation they gave. Look at the IPhone introduction, or the MacBook Air keynote. Those are pretty representative of how Apple acts when they are confident enough to say “this is the best thing out there, nothing comes close, and we’re two years ahead.” Some Goon posted:Yeah, companies with a clearly winning hand are loud about it, whereas ones with a lesser product tend to be unspecific like apple was. lol at all this We are talking about the company whose iconic founder/CEO introduced the PowerPC to Intel transition like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iNwvAuc0nCU&t=1473s You think Apple's ARM performance claims are too vague, the charts a little too abstract? Get a load of that poo poo. He didn't even define what the units were, and he wasn't even talking about real measurements, just roadmap promises. Yet that wasn't bluster from a position of weakness at all. For better or for worse, Jobs set the norms for Apple's communication style such that, no matter how confident Apple is, you aren't going to get too many details cluttering up their pretty marketing graphs. You guys are reading way too much into that. I had exactly the opposite reaction to their presentation; they're oozing confidence. The dodgy thing would be failing to use qualifiers like "up to", because computer performance gains do not work that way. You're never going to see a uniform X times faster across the board. It's marketing, so they're gonna highlight the highs, but reading the worst possible interpretation into the expected and routine qualifiers which go along with that isn't any smarter than ignoring them.
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Nov 16, 2020 22:19
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The irony is that apple is apparently the best they’ve ever been right now in terms of openness, transparency, and in terms of publishing and participating in industry-wide poo poo
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Nov 16, 2020 23:06
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They don't call them Bezos charts for no reason
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Nov 16, 2020 23:16
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The new chips are dropping support for a variety of CPU intensive tasks (Windows gaming, compute that leverages eGPU support, scientific computing in VMs etc) so talking about their raw performance is fairly uninteresting.
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Nov 16, 2020 23:23
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Thunderbolt is allegedly hosed in Big Sur for DROBOs according to some MacRumors reports.. People who own DROBOs report their arrays disappearing from the Finder after upgrading to Big Sur. At the moment the workaround is to switch to USB 3 cables; most DROBOs have both ports. However, access is slow and renders DROBO Dashboard useless as it needs Thunderbolt to do its management (DROBOs won't appear in Dashboard scans) Binary Badger fucked around with this message at 23:49 on Nov 16, 2020 |
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Nov 16, 2020 23:46
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Binary Badger posted:Thunderbolt is allegedly hosed in Big Sur for DROBOs according to some MacRumors reports.. That was a company that seemed really cool and together back in the day, then just wasted it
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Nov 17, 2020 00:02
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Binary Badger posted:Thunderbolt is allegedly hosed in Big Sur for DROBOs according to some MacRumors reports.. Yeah, this is true and got me in the rear end. Luckily Drobo included USB3 Type-B cables in the box so I wasn't completely screwed and was only down for a few minutes when I decided to look in the box. My cold storage NAS is now a Synology, but I still have my Drobo 5D in production.
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Nov 17, 2020 00:12
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BobHoward posted:lol at all this Lol, you're a rube. Also, I didn't say anything about taking the worst interpretation, just pointing out that, as you've noted, Apple didn't say anything of substance, and definitely wasn't making the comparisons people were saying they were. And 2005 Apple wasn't in a position of strength, lol. They were pivoting off a dead architecture while kept afloat by the ipod. It was a good move, but it was also just a necessary move, and not a seamless one for longtime mac users. Fantastic Foreskin fucked around with this message at 00:23 on Nov 17, 2020 |
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Nov 17, 2020 00:18
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Drobo the company is kinda neat as things go; in every DROBO I've set up they've always included both USB 3 -and- Thunderbolt 2/3 cables depending on when you bought it, they include loads of neat, cleanly laid out Apple-like documentation and packaging, and even a cloth carrying case because they know at some point you're gonna wanna carry your DROBO around for god knows what reason. poo poo, they even call their warranty DROBOCare, after you-know-what. Kinda neat how they shove a Linux mini-PC, power supply, and network interface (if you get a NAS and not a DAS model) into that case which is built like a tank. I think it's more a case of Apple switching poo poo out from under them and getting caught with their britches down rather than them not giving a poo poo about Big Sur, although they had to know they'd have users upgrading to Big Sur. But people on MRF kept saying their DROBOs worked fine in RC2. Amazing how one number in the build is the difference between working and crashing hard into a brick wall. Binary Badger fucked around with this message at 00:26 on Nov 17, 2020 |
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Nov 17, 2020 00:22
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Just listened to this week and tech from this week, and after hearing what a real pro (Alex Lindsey ) has to say about the Apple chips? I’m waiting for the next dip in Apple stock and then buying some. I think this thread is being suspicious and cynical for understandable reasons, and I think what Apple did i hindsight will be a real game changer long term to the whole industry, not just them.
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Nov 17, 2020 00:23
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Like I said in my first post, I think apple has the chops to pull this off, but their communication on this first outing is telling me it ain't where it's going to be, yet.
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Nov 17, 2020 00:27
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LionArcher posted:Just listened to this week and tech from this week, and after hearing what a real pro (Alex Lindsey ) has to say about the Apple chips? I’m waiting for the next dip in Apple stock and then buying some. I think this thread is being suspicious and cynical for understandable reasons, and I think what Apple did i hindsight will be a real game changer long term to the whole industry, not just them. I agree, this is Apple's endgame as far as computers goes and them finally being able to have total control of the hardware with their ability to create the software that goes with it means they can really build out their vision of the future of computing. I think they're taking a overly cautious approach with the first few products (low end first, no design changes) but once they hit their stride we're gonna see some cool stuff.
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Nov 17, 2020 00:36
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LionArcher posted:Just listened to this week and tech from this week, and after hearing what a real pro (Alex Lindsey ) has to say about the Apple chips? I’m waiting for the next dip in Apple stock and then buying some. I think this thread is being suspicious and cynical for understandable reasons, and I think what Apple did i hindsight will be a real game changer long term to the whole industry, not just them. I don't doubt it'll be a successful strategy in the long run. I do think that if you buy an M1 mac right now, you're joining the folks who bought the first revision of the Macbook Air, the iPad, the Watch (edition zero loving lol) the iBook, etc. First revision apple products do not have a good track record, and this transition is going to be messy in the best case scenario.
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Nov 17, 2020 00:49
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even if performance and compatibility meet your needs, most people would be better off waiting for gen2 laptops where they actually redesign the shells. picture the fomo when you see the sexy new laptops next year and your gen1 laptops look indistinguishable from the Intel SKUs
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Nov 17, 2020 00:54
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Dr. Fishopolis posted:I don't doubt it'll be a successful strategy in the long run. I do think that if you buy an M1 mac right now, you're joining the folks who bought the first revision of the Macbook Air, the iPad, the Watch (edition zero loving lol) the iBook, etc. First revision apple products do not have a good track record, and this transition is going to be messy in the best case scenario. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ no regrets buying the iPad. It was awesome, especially the 3G version. Felt like the goddamned future. Still in use as a video player. People trot this line out all the time and it’s so stupid. shrike82 posted:even if performance and compatibility meet your needs, most people would be better off waiting for gen2 laptops where they actually redesign the shells. I am hoping for a redesign, though. Call it the air if you want but that should be like the MacBook now. Or man. MacBook mini.
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Nov 17, 2020 00:57
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Dr. Fishopolis posted:I don't doubt it'll be a successful strategy in the long run. I do think that if you buy an M1 mac right now, you're joining the folks who bought the first revision of the Macbook Air, the iPad, the Watch (edition zero loving lol) the iBook, etc. First revision apple products do not have a good track record, and this transition is going to be messy in the best case scenario. On the other hand, if you need a mac now you have to choose, and I think the m1 is the smart choice now. Apple is never going back to intel (ok never say never but it would at least a decade) and the m1 Mac will be supported longer than any intel Mac.
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Nov 17, 2020 01:01
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https://www.macrumors.com/2020/11/16/m1-beats-geforce-gtx-1050-ti-and-radeon-rx-560/ The M1's GPU supposedly beats the nVidia GeForce GTX 1050Ti and the Radeon RX 560 in GFXBench tests.. not bad for a part of a new chip.. So right out of the gate the new Apple M1 notebooks have an integrated GPU that matches/beats mid-level desktop PCIe video cards..
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Nov 17, 2020 01:01
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Binary Badger posted:https://www.macrumors.com/2020/11/16/m1-beats-geforce-gtx-1050-ti-and-radeon-rx-560/ They were already the low end two years ago. The mid-level is currently the 1650/1660 series and their variants.
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Nov 17, 2020 01:03
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Mister Facetious posted:They were already the low end two years ago. The mid-level is currently the 1650/1660 series and their variants. Right, but the fact that a fanless integrated graphics chip is performing better than a 75w 1050ti is impressive.
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Nov 17, 2020 01:05
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can't wait to play the plethora of arm native games with my M1 laptop
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Nov 17, 2020 01:06
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FCKGW posted:Right, but the fact that a fanless integrated graphics chip is performing better than a 75w 1050ti is impressive. Assuming it can hold that performance longer than 30 seconds, yeah. Pretty sure this will be the end of Minecraft Java on Apple though. 
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Nov 17, 2020 01:07
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Binary Badger posted:https://www.macrumors.com/2020/11/16/m1-beats-geforce-gtx-1050-ti-and-radeon-rx-560/
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Nov 17, 2020 01:10
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Dr. Fishopolis posted:I don't doubt it'll be a successful strategy in the long run. I do think that if you buy an M1 mac right now, you're joining the folks who bought the first revision of the Macbook Air, the iPad, the Watch (edition zero loving lol) the iBook, etc. First revision apple products do not have a good track record, and this transition is going to be messy in the best case scenario. Oh 100%. I have no interest in a new Mac till they have 14 inch pros and hopefully airs, and a version 2 of a iMac redesign. But the faster these gen 1’s come out the sooner gen 2 is here.
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Nov 17, 2020 01:25
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shrike82 posted:can't wait to play the plethora of arm native games with my M1 laptop Hell its plenty to probably play the entire Mac OS Steam library in Rosetta 2 way better than the Intel GPUs it’s replacing
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Nov 17, 2020 01:34
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