[Asia/Oceania] Yellen says she hopes China wont mount retaliation against any steps Washington takes

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > C-SPAM > [Asia/Oceania] Yellen says she hopes China wont mount retaliation against any steps Washington takes

«‹›3008 »

(Thread IKs: fart simpson)

Cao Ni Ma: May 25, 2010

IAMKOREA posted:

not seeing how his analysis of biden's campaign - where he shat himself on camera and had to hide for weeks at a time due to severe bouts of dementia - is wrong?

Biden didn't campaign but that tweet is clearly insinuating that the elections were stolen.

# ? Nov 16, 2020 20:45

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ? May 29, 2024 18:02

stephenthinkpad: Jan 2, 2020

AWW make good arts. That's my take.

So do Jon McNaughton.

# ? Nov 16, 2020 20:58

mila kunis: Jun 10, 2011

very strange, i don't understand it. i thought they were pro-democracy?

https://twitter.com/guardian/status/1327038760798793729

# ? Nov 16, 2020 20:59

Not So Fast: Dec 27, 2007

mila kunis posted:

very strange, i don't understand it. i thought they were pro-democracy?

https://twitter.com/guardian/status/1327038760798793729

They're pro-democracy for them, and view Trump as their best shot at it. That's the entire rationale.

# ? Nov 16, 2020 21:17

mila kunis: Jun 10, 2011

seems more like the right wing anti-communist international they've nurtured and fostered is giving poor liberals the vapors

quote:

The Hong Kong Free Press, a local English-language title, has seen a huge backlash over its election coverage. An op-ed this week headlined �President Biden will stand with Hong Kong � more effectively than Trump ever did�, was met with hundreds of negative comments � including baseless accusations that Joe Biden was �in the CCP�s pocket� and assertions that the election result was yet to be decided.

...

�But I�m genuinely surprised at the level of rightwing disinformation that has influenced Hong Kong circles. The number of friends who have linked me to Breitbart articles or other easily-debunked misinformation is depressing.�

...

�I spoke to a woman at a pro-democracy [shop], she is hardcore pro-democracy and anti-Beijing � and she is hardcore Donald Trump. And she says Fox News is the only reliable media in the US,� he said.

...

Observers including Ramani said people in Hong Kong and Taiwan had become �collateral damage� of disinformation campaigns aimed at US voters but which had spread internationally through mainstream, far-right and social media.

# ? Nov 16, 2020 21:37

Cao Ni Ma: May 25, 2010

I'd like to see the venn diagram of the hong kong right wing thats embraced trump and the ones that would prefer being a British colony over re-integrating with the mainland.

# ? Nov 16, 2020 22:17

comedyblissoption: Mar 15, 2006

IAMKOREA posted:

not seeing how his analysis of biden's campaign - where he shat himself on camera and had to hide for weeks at a time due to severe bouts of dementia - is wrong?

if youre an outside observer looking at the biden campaign and the pathetically small rallies for whatever strange reason, i could see the confusion

# ? Nov 16, 2020 22:56

indigi: Jul 20, 2004; ^{how can we not talk about family

when family's all that we got?}

IAMKOREA posted:

not seeing how his analysis of biden's campaign - where he shat himself on camera and had to hide for weeks at a time due to severe bouts of dementia - is wrong?

I'm glad amateur-psychiatric-diagnosis-at-a-distance will be sticking around under Biden, it was definitely one of the more helpful things to come out of the liberal reaction to Trump's presidency. definitely not ableist or anything

# ? Nov 16, 2020 22:59

stephenthinkpad: Jan 2, 2020

If you want to read something funny, check out the comments of Tsai Eng-Wei's first tween congratulating on Biden and Harris. There are 100+ traditional chinese replied calling her moron and traitor. I had a blast reading thru them.

# ? Nov 17, 2020 02:46

Grapplejack: Nov 27, 2007

indigi posted:

I'm glad amateur-psychiatric-diagnosis-at-a-distance will be sticking around under Biden, it was definitely one of the more helpful things to come out of the liberal reaction to Trump's presidency. definitely not ableist or anything

please view a video of him from 2000, then a video of him recently.

stephenthinkpad posted:

If you want to read something funny, check out the comments of Tsai Eng-Wei's first tween congratulating on Biden and Harris. There are 100+ traditional chinese replied calling her moron and traitor. I had a blast reading thru them.

I wonder what Taiwan feels about Biden vs Trump. Are they worried that Biden wouldn't back them up like (assumedly) Trump would? Trump sure as poo poo gave them more than any previous president so I can see why they'd want him to stick around

# ? Nov 17, 2020 03:01

gradenko_2000: Oct 5, 2010; HELL SERPENT; Lipstick Apathy

I think the HK protesters supporting Trump doesn't go much deeper than - he was the President of the US at the time when they needed a backer against mainland China, and he made all the right anti-China noises, and they're being fed propaganda that Biden is going to be soft of China, so they're still behind Trump even as he's on his way out.

# ? Nov 17, 2020 05:13

GoutPatrol: Oct 17, 2009; *Stupid Babby*

Some Guy TT posted:

If you think that a breakup of China would be good for anyone except in the most narrow sense of it strategically benefitting China's regional adversaries, then yes you're being pretty naive. The breakup itself would be intensely violent and kill millions as people fought over everything from state assets to the final borders. All of the smaller states that resulted would have tons of reasons to try to pick off their neighbors or expand at their expense, which would lead to basically a new Warring States period. Without the Chinese economy international trade would get really hosed, leading to bad economic problems across the world.

I mean, poo poo, for a best case scenario where China isn't an integral part of the world economy look at the scale of the human suffering that took place following the collapse of the Qing dynasty. The opportunistic invasion by Japan was very much part and parcel of all that.

Would some people benefit? Yes. A ton of ethnic minorities would stop having their cultures hosed with. I'm sure tons of Uyghurs and Tibetans would applaud it. That's more of a silver lining than anything else, and even that is going to have a huge disruptive impact as ethnic and cultural groups try to sort themselves in a new post-China landscape. The partition of India is a pretty good modern example of just how ugly this can get.

China has a ton of problems and god knows the Chinese government does some hosed up poo poo, but the answer to that is to reform it - even if reform means throwing out the entire government and starting new - not trying to break it up into numerous smaller states.

on the other hand, revolution is cool and good

# ? Nov 17, 2020 05:24

sincx: Jul 13, 2012; furiously masturbating to anime titties

sincx has issued a correction as of 05:31 on Mar 23, 2021

# ? Nov 17, 2020 05:31

Shear Modulus: Jun 9, 2010

seems reasonable to me that people exposed to english-language internet would see the unceasing stream of right-wing bullshit that murdoch, zuckerberg, the kochs, et al have blanketed it with

# ? Nov 17, 2020 06:19

KaptainKrunk: Feb 6, 2006

indigi posted:

I'm glad amateur-psychiatric-diagnosis-at-a-distance will be sticking around under Biden, it was definitely one of the more helpful things to come out of the liberal reaction to Trump's presidency. definitely not ableist or anything

biden has had a history of brain bleeds and has obviously last a step; everyone is pretending to be nice because he's Not Trump, so politesse must be maintained.

# ? Nov 17, 2020 06:30

Ardennes: May 12, 2002

Shear Modulus posted:

seems reasonable to me that people exposed to english-language internet would see the unceasing stream of right-wing bullshit that murdoch, zuckerberg, the kochs, et al have blanketed it with

Also, in all honesty, usually the more pro-American people you meet outside the US in general are usually right/far-right on the political spectrum, it more or less follows from the tenor of American politics.

# ? Nov 17, 2020 06:38

Hubbert: Mar 25, 2007; At a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.

Ardennes posted:

Granted, getting out of the TPP was probably the right domestic decision to make and was one of the calls that probably gave him the presidency by giving him the Rust belt (Biden would have probably lost if he brought it up again publically). Arguably, it has been the result of a process since the formation of the GATT/Bretton woods that more and more of the American public would grow hostile to unfettered foreign trade until it became a wedge issue.

It is also why I am doubtful a full FTA is going to happen with India for a variety of reasons (especially IP enforcement on pharm and the generally protectionist nature of the Indian economy), but also just generally hostility of the American public.

It is an issue China may also have in the future, but they also have the tools in place to mitigate it.

Ardennes posted:

(That said, I think the RECP is a clear sign that any real attempt by the US at "containing" China has failed.)

Shear Modulus posted:

the TPP was a poo poo deal for anyone except multinational corporations. there just happened to only really be any of those in america and japan among its original signatories plus maybe australia and canada

In the Shadows of the American Century: The Rise and Decline of US Global Power (2017) posted:

In his second term, however, Obama unleashed a countervailing strategy, seeking to split the world island economically along its continental divide at the Ural Mountains through two trade agreements that aimed to capture nothing less than �the central global pole position� for �almost two-thirds of world GDP and nearly three-quarters of world trade.� By negotiating the Trans-Pacific Partnership (TPP), Washington hoped to redirect much of the vast trade in the Asian half of Eurasia toward North America. Simultaneously, Washington also tried to reorient the European Union�s portion of Eurasia�which still has the world�s largest single economy and another 16 percent of world trade�toward the United States through the Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership (TTIP).

Finally, in a stroke of personal diplomacy that much of the US media misconstrued as a sentimental journey, Obama was aggressive in his diplomatic courtship of Africa�that third continental component of China�s would-be world island�convening a White House summit for more than fifty of the continent�s leaders in 2014 and making a state visit to East Africa in July 2015. With its usual barbed insight, Beijing�s Global Times accurately identified the real aim of Obama�s Africa diplomacy as �off-setting China�s growing influence and recovering past U.S. leverage.�

When grandmasters like Obama play the Great Game of Geopolitics, there is, almost axiomatically a certain sangfroid to their moves as well as an indifference to any resulting collateral damage at home or abroad. Should some version of these two treaties or successor agreements, so central to Obama�s geopolitical strategy, ever be adopted, they will bring in their wake both diplomatic gains and high social costs. Think of it in blunt terms as the choice between maintaining the empire abroad and sustaining democracy at home.

In his first six years in office, Obama invested his diplomatic and political capital in advancing the TPP, a prospective treaty that carefully excluded China from membership. Surpassing any other economic alliance except the European Union, this treaty would have integrated the US economy with those of eleven nations around the Pacific Basin�including Australia, Canada, Chile, Japan, Malaysia, Mexico, and Vietnam�that represent $28 trillion in combined GDP or 40 percent of gross world product and a third of all global trade. By sweeping up areas like agriculture, data flows, and service industries, this treaty aspired to an unparalleled Pacific economic integration. In the process, it would decisively secure these highly productive nations in America�s orbit.

Not surprisingly, Obama faced ferocious opposition from progressive leaders within his own party, like Senator Elizabeth Warren, who were sharply critical of the highly secretive nature of the negotiations for the pact and the way it was likely to degrade American labor and environmental laws. The left-leaning Economic Policy Institute estimated that the TTP would eliminate 370,000 jobs in the industrial heartland of the upper Midwest. So scathing was this critique that, in June 2015, the president needed Republican votes to win Senate approval for �fast track� authority just to complete the final round of negotiations on the treaty.

Obama also aggressively pursued negotiations for the TTIP with the European Union to similarly secure its $18 trillion economy.68 The treaty sought fuller economic integration between Europe and the United States by meshing government regulations on matters such as auto safety in ways that might add some $270 billion to their annual trade.

According to a coalition of 170 European civil society groups, the TTIP, like its Pacific counterpart, would damage democracy in participating countries by transferring control over consumer safety, the environment, and labor to closed, pro-business arbitration tribunals. Whatever one thinks about the ultimate impact of such trade pacts, the TTP treaty, propelled by Obama�s singular determination, had moved at light speed compared to the laggard Doha round of World Trade Organization negotiations that had reached year twelve of inconclusive talks with no end in sight. And then, of course, Donald Trump formally quit the Trans-Pacific Partnership during his first week in office, sweeping all of Obama�s trade plans into the dumpster of history.

[...]

For all the boldness of his geopolitical vision, Obama faltered in its implementation as events, domestic and international, intervened decisively. The two trade pacts, TTP and TTIP, that promised to redirect Eurasia�s economies toward America soon encountered formidable domestic political opposition on both continents from both left and right. Despite volumes of economic studies to the contrary, just 19 percent of Americans polled in July 2016 believed that trade creates more jobs, and an earlier survey of public opinion in forty-four countries found only 26 percent of respondents felt trade lowers prices. Between 1999 and 2011, Chinese imports eliminated 2.4 million American jobs, closing plants for furniture in North Carolina, glass in Ohio, and auto parts and steel across the Midwest.96 After a half century of accelerating globalization, displaced or disadvantaged workers began mobilizing politically to oppose an economic order that privileged corporations and economic elites. As nations worldwide imposed a combined 2,100 restrictions on imports, world trade started slowing and actually fell during the second quarter of 2016 for the first time during a period of economic growth since World War II.

As the most transcendent of these trade treaties, designed to supersede the sovereign authority of courts and legislatures, the TTP and TTIP became symbols of a globalization gone too far. Obama�s promotion of these treaties coincided with a growing nativist reaction to globalization. Across Europe an increasing number of voters supported hyper-nationalist parties that included the Danish People�s Party, the French National Front, the Alternative for Germany, Greece�s Golden Dawn, Sweden Democrats, and the UK Independence Party. Simultaneously, a generation of populist demagogues gained popularity or power in nominally democratic nations around the world�notably, Norbert Hofer (Austria), Marine Le Pen (France), Viktor Orban (Hungary), Geert Wilders (Netherlands), Rodrigo Duterte (Philippines), Narendra Modi (India), Prabowo Subianto (Indonesia), Vladimir Putin (Russia), Erdogan (Turkey), and Donald Trump (United States). In June 2016, the British public voted to quit the European Union, eliminating its most forceful advocate for the TTIP, and two months later Germany�s economy minister announced that these trade talks with Washington had failed.

During the American election campaign that fall, Donald Trump was famously vociferous in his opposition to the TTP and, under the pressure from the progressive candidacy of Bernie Sanders, his Democratic rival Hillary Clinton soon followed suit. Only days after Trump�s unexpected win in November, the Obama White House conceded the deal was dead�a blow to US prestige that opened the way for Beijing to push its own Asian trade pact, the sixteen-nation Regional Comprehensive Economic Partnership, that excludes the United States.

[...]

In the transition to the Trump administration, the fragility of these relations with key Asian allies was immediately apparent. Right after the stunning upset in the November 2016 elections, Japan�s Abe broke with the subordinate role of prime ministers past by moving quickly to repair the damage from Trump�s unsettling campaign rhetoric, particularly his demands for full payment of the cost of basing troops in Japan and his call for the country to build its own nuclear weapons. Only twenty-four hours after polls closed in America, Abe was on the phone telling Trump that �a strong U.S.-Japan alliance � supports peace and stability in the Asia-Pacific region.� Abe was also a vocal defender of the TPP, saying its failure would assure the success of Beijing�s sixteen-nation regional partnership that excludes America, �leaving China the economy with the largest gross domestic product.�

mila kunis posted:

im sure someones gonna get owned by this free trade agreement somehow

to summarize everything above: while everyone in the now-signed RCEP is getting owned by the PRC, the actual biggest loser from all of this is the united states of america.

it's actually such a tremendous self-own by the american political establishment and its wealthy elite (driven by resentment from long-standing economic disenfranchisement of their own population over the past few decades) that they will never, ever get another chance to capture the shifting economic centre of the world away from the asian pacific ever again.

thanks for trying, obama

Hubbert has issued a correction as of 07:51 on Nov 17, 2020

# ? Nov 17, 2020 07:36

Microcline: Jul 27, 2012

Ardennes posted:

Also, in all honesty, usually the more pro-American people you meet outside the US in general are usually right/far-right on the political spectrum, it more or less follows from the tenor of American politics.

At a global perspective right-wing and left-wing politics are respectively pro-US and anti-US. It's only in the US and Western Europe that you see a CNN-style "the enemies of the US must be exterminated/subjugated, but don't quote Mein Kampf because it would give the game away"

# ? Nov 17, 2020 08:04

Sheng-Ji Yang: Mar 5, 2014

Hubbert posted:

to summarize everything above: while everyone in the now-signed RCEP is getting owned by the PRC, the actual biggest loser from all of this is the united states of america.

it's actually such a tremendous self-own by the american political establishment and its wealthy elite (driven by resentment from long-standing economic disenfranchisement of their own population over the past few decades) that they will never, ever get another chance to capture the shifting economic centre of the world away from the asian pacific ever again.

thanks for trying, obama

lol it would have screwed over everyone in the US that wasnt rich, as every free trade pact has. yes, canceling the TPP did screw over our imperial capitalist elites though.

# ? Nov 17, 2020 08:06

Some Guy TT: Aug 30, 2011

cant wait for biden to try and bring tpp back only to be told to gently caress off because why would anyone want to join a robocop hellworld trade deal when they already have a normal one with china

# ? Nov 17, 2020 08:16

comedyblissoption: Mar 15, 2006

Hubbert posted:

to summarize everything above: while everyone in the now-signed RCEP is getting owned by the PRC, the actual biggest loser from all of this is the united states of america.

it's actually such a tremendous self-own by the american political establishment and its wealthy elite (driven by resentment from long-standing economic disenfranchisement of their own population over the past few decades) that they will never, ever get another chance to capture the shifting economic centre of the world away from the asian pacific ever again.

thanks for trying, obama

donald trump makes this possible for us all

# ? Nov 17, 2020 08:30

comedyblissoption: Mar 15, 2006

chinese hegemonic ascendancy will be trump's legacy inshallah

# ? Nov 17, 2020 08:30

OhFunny: Jun 26, 2013; EXTREMELY PISSED AT THE DNC

There are two moves the USA can make here.

The first is to put pressure on US allies not to ratify. The RCEP has been signed, but doesn't come into effect until six ASEAN and three non-ASEAN nations ratify. Australia, New Zealand, Japan, South Korea, and China are the non-ASEAN nations. The US should be able to drag the ratification process out among the first four.

The second move is to join the CPTPP (or just say that the US will). Japan, New Zealand, and Australia are members of it and can probably be persuaded to not ratify the RCEP if they think the US will be joining them in the CPTPP.

# ? Nov 17, 2020 08:36

KaptainKrunk: Feb 6, 2006

Too much money to be made in China. Covid has made many of these countries think twice about hitching themselves to the US.

# ? Nov 17, 2020 08:46

gradenko_2000: Oct 5, 2010; HELL SERPENT; Lipstick Apathy

Covid is still going to be burning through the US in two years

# ? Nov 17, 2020 08:49

Ardennes: May 12, 2002

Hubbert posted:

to summarize everything above: while everyone in the now-signed RCEP is getting owned by the PRC, the actual biggest loser from all of this is the united states of america.

it's actually such a tremendous self-own by the american political establishment and its wealthy elite (driven by resentment from long-standing economic disenfranchisement of their own population over the past few decades) that they will never, ever get another chance to capture the shifting economic centre of the world away from the asian pacific ever again.

thanks for trying, obama

Quite simply, the United States� geopolitical dreams couldn�t be sustained domestically but that may not actually be such a bad thing for average Americans.

As for bringing back the TPP, it still has to be ratified by the senate and Biden�s hold on congress is going to be weak. Also, public opinion is as negative as it was on the TPP.

The US is obviously going to drag out ratification RECP as long as possible but those governments didn�t sign on to it on a whim.

Ardennes has issued a correction as of 08:53 on Nov 17, 2020

# ? Nov 17, 2020 08:50

Some Guy TT: Aug 30, 2011

it would be extremely funny if biden picks a fight with the republicans over tpp expecting them to go along with it because they love corporations too only for trumpism of all loving things to save us because this election most definitely did not kill trumpism and the republicans have quickly caught on to the fact that trumpism without trump might well be the silver bullet they need to get a permanent supermajority

# ? Nov 17, 2020 09:01

Some Guy TT: Aug 30, 2011

https://twitter.com/byHeatherLong/status/1328405702608556033

# ? Nov 17, 2020 09:39

Al-Saqr: Nov 11, 2007; One Day I Will Return To Your Side.

Some Guy TT posted:

https://twitter.com/byHeatherLong/status/1328405702608556033

oh so nothing improves and everything gets slightly worse.

America.jpeg

# ? Nov 17, 2020 09:42

gradenko_2000: Oct 5, 2010; HELL SERPENT; Lipstick Apathy

Some Guy TT posted:

https://twitter.com/byHeatherLong/status/1328405702608556033

https://twitter.com/Comrade_Sabina/status/1328499096940806145

# ? Nov 17, 2020 09:47

OhFunny: Jun 26, 2013; EXTREMELY PISSED AT THE DNC

China's new copper futures add another card to global yuan deck

Posters may recall China opening it's own yuan-denominated oil futures two years ago. There's been other international commodities contract exchanges opened, but this is the big one. The one everyone's been waiting for. China accounts for 50% of the world's copper use. If there's anywhere the yuan will challenge the dollar in the short term it's here.

KaptainKrunk posted:

Too much money to be made in China. Covid has made many of these countries think twice about hitching themselves to the US.

Oh I dunno. Australia has followed the US into every foolish adventure these last few decades and are having a trade spate with China right now. They could be convinced. The US is still Japan's top trading partner and has territorial disputes with China. They would come along. The Prime Minsters of both nations are meeting today in fact to discuss the strengthening of their military cooperation as China grows stronger. That leaves New Zealand or South Korea to convince and the RCEP stalls out. Likely can't get South Korea onboard with Japan there, so New Zealand. Which was one of the first nations ban Huawai when the US asked them to (although they seem to have backtracked on this recently)

# ? Nov 17, 2020 10:42

Ardennes: May 12, 2002

quote:

Oh I dunno. Australia has followed the US into every foolish adventure these last few decades and are having a trade spate with China right now. They could be convinced. The US is still Japan's top trading partner and has territorial disputes with China. They would come along. The Prime Minsters of both nations are meeting today in fact to discuss the strengthening of their military cooperation as China grows stronger. That leaves New Zealand or South Korea to convince and the RCEP stalls out. Likely can't get South Korea onboard with Japan there, so New Zealand. Which was one of the first nations ban Huawai when the US asked them to (although they seem to have backtracked on this recently)

China is Japan's largest trading partner especially when you include Hong Kong.

There obviously is going to be a fight, but at the same time, China's economic pull is going to be hard to resist.

# ? Nov 17, 2020 12:27

stephenthinkpad: Jan 2, 2020

OhFunny posted:

There are two moves the USA can make here.

The first is to put pressure on US allies not to ratify. The RCEP has been signed, but doesn't come into effect until six ASEAN and three non-ASEAN nations ratify. Australia, New Zealand, Japan, South Korea, and China are the non-ASEAN nations. The US should be able to drag the ratification process out among the first four.

There are 2 countries US can legit pressure, Japan and Australia. Korea already has a FTA with China. But like I say Japan wouldn't switch the PM midcourse if they didn't want to sign RCEP under the radar. However US can still put a kibosh on the future China-Japan-Korea trade pack with is a higher level FTA. Look for mysterious political scandal prosecuted by the Special Investigation Squad of the Tokyo District Public Prosecutors Office.

quote:

The second move is to join the CPTPP (or just say that the US will). Japan, New Zealand, and Australia are members of it and can probably be persuaded to not ratify the RCEP if they think the US will be joining them in the CPTPP.

CPTPP is already a "TPP lite" with most of the notorious "intellectual property provisions" removed. That parts were also opposed by most of the Democrats. I don't know if CPTPP can still let multi-nationals sue nation states for compensation. Also I want to know if Taiwan can join CPTPP. China may be able to get a proxy to oppose it like Laos and Cambodia are acting as China proxy inside ASEAN.

Lastly, I doubt Biden can push through a "nuTPP" with a new name. This is because the US politic has became highly divisive and basically the word "TPP" or "trade deal" has become poisoned words.

stephenthinkpad has issued a correction as of 15:49 on Nov 17, 2020

# ? Nov 17, 2020 15:41

Grapplejack: Nov 27, 2007

So this free trade agreement cements China as being super duper communist right

# ? Nov 17, 2020 15:51

Crowsbeak: Oct 9, 2012; by Azathoth; Lipstick Apathy

mila kunis posted:

very strange, i don't understand it. i thought they were pro-democracy?

https://twitter.com/guardian/status/1327038760798793729

Man this is a mystery.

Also if economics ran things the USA would be on a second stimulus. History cannot be ignored and neither Japan and China can ignore the past. Just as American boomers and older Xers being brainwashed on anti communism helps explain why such creatures let the USA burn.

# ? Nov 17, 2020 16:24

Top City Homo: Oct 15, 2014; Ramrod XTreme

Grapplejack posted:

So this free trade agreement cements China as being super duper communist right

free trade is revolutionary

# ? Nov 17, 2020 19:56

indigi: Jul 20, 2004; ^{how can we not talk about family

when family's all that we got?}

free movement for capital, restricted movement for citizens. as Marx intended

# ? Nov 17, 2020 20:02

stephenthinkpad: Jan 2, 2020

One thing the American hawks like Pompeo keep trying to rewrite the history is that the US "open up to China in the late 70s and helped her join the WTO for the well being of the Chinese people." No idiot stop eating up your own lies. You did it to pull China away from the Soviet bloc to win the geopolitical competition. Same thing China is doing with the developing world and you are not doing right now.

# ? Nov 17, 2020 20:53

mila kunis: Jun 10, 2011

stephenthinkpad posted:

One thing the American hawks like Pompeo keep trying to rewrite the history is that the US "open up to China in the late 70s and helped her join the WTO for the well being of the Chinese people." No idiot stop eating up your own lies. You did it to pull China away from the Soviet bloc to win the geopolitical competition. Same thing China is doing with the developing world and you are not doing right now.

well that and the cheap cost of labour with the infrastructure and education the communists had built up.

# ? Nov 17, 2020 21:41

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ? May 29, 2024 18:02

BrutalistMcDonalds: Oct 4, 2012; Lipstick Apathy

https://twitter.com/MandelaFace/status/1328718073809969158

imagine thinking china will learn anything about the united states and from tyler cowen, slavery advocate, than "there is zero political unity among the dominant social forces in the united states except for an 'every man for himself' runaway scrape. how very scary!" although they might take away a possibility that the only apparent basis for such unity might be war with china, so the risk grows for them

BrutalistMcDonalds has issued a correction as of 23:02 on Nov 17, 2020

# ? Nov 17, 2020 22:01

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > C-SPAM > [Asia/Oceania] Yellen says she hopes China wont mount retaliation against any steps Washington takes

«‹›3008 »