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Rated PG-34
Jul 1, 2004




I would imagine she’d be pleased with a flash if she’s using it indoors and just bounces the flash off the ceiling/wall.

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some kinda jackal
Feb 25, 2003

 
 
Yeah, get a dome/diffuser, aim it up and that would be probably be really beneficial.

As a black pet-haver I know the pain :smith:

Usable photos of my golden retriever: All of them
Usable photos of my black lab mix: None of them

Deadite
Aug 30, 2003

A fat guy, a watermelon, and a stack of magazines?
Family.
She has a Canon Rebel EOS T5. She mostly uses a macro lens to take photos of the pets but I don’t know much about it other than it is also Canon.

So if a flash would help her out should I stick with a Canon flash? Or are there other brands I should be looking at too?

XBenedict
May 23, 2006

YOUR LIPS SAY 0, BUT YOUR EYES SAY 1.

Martytoof posted:

Yeah, get a dome/diffuser, aim it up and that would be probably be really beneficial.

As a black pet-haver I know the pain :smith:

Usable photos of my golden retriever: All of them
Usable photos of my black lab mix: None of them

Can relate. I have to boost shadows so high that all my black cat pictures look like this.

jarlywarly
Aug 31, 2018

Deadite posted:

She has a Canon Rebel EOS T5. She mostly uses a macro lens to take photos of the pets but I don’t know much about it other than it is also Canon.

So if a flash would help her out should I stick with a Canon flash? Or are there other brands I should be looking at too?

Third-party flashes like Godox or Yongnuo are great but don't work with some lower end Canon DSLRs check the T5 out on Google

Fools Infinite
Mar 21, 2006
Journeyman
Bouncing the flash will get you something like a strong overhead light, which will be good for many subjects, but probably not a black rabbit.

You probably want to shoot with a more directional light, which you can use to relatively darken the background, while the bright highlights can give more shape your pet. The rabbits surroundings should also be relatively dark, or you should elevate the rabbit, otherwise the flash will probably over exposure the area around it.

Cheap flashes tend to be all manual, but in practice I didn't find that to be much of a limitation. If you want automatic exposure from a cheap flash, make sure it is the model for your camera company's protocol. Canon killed off brand flash compatibility for the latest entry level model, the sl3, but I think that is the only model affected so far.

Easychair Bootson
May 7, 2004

Where's the last guy?
Ultimo hombre.
Last man standing.
Must've been one.
Godox / Flashpoint is the way to go for speedlights imho. Even the cheap ones have TTL which helps with the learning curve and is useful for advanced users as well.

powderific
May 13, 2004

Grimey Drawer
If you can get the flash off camera it's even better. My favorite intro book on studio lighting can be found pretty cheap used and gives a great primer on how light works, including dark things on dark backgrounds: https://www.thriftbooks.com/w/light...edition=3215689

Whether that's a good birthday present I'm less sure — it's kindof a faff and whether she'd enjoy learning it is more about her I think.

Pablo Bluth
Sep 7, 2007

I've made a huge mistake.
Godox have in theory got around Canon's removal of the centre pin.
https://petapixel.com/2019/05/06/godox-flash-firmware-updates-bring-support-for-canons-crippled-cameras/

You could also chuck in a pop-up diffuser box.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Universal-Diffuser-Speedlight-Portable-Rectangular/dp/B01GCF422I/

Flash also looks better when it's off camera, so if we went with Godox you could include the required wireless connectivity (if that's not getting too far ahead of the skill level)

Pablo Bluth fucked around with this message at 16:53 on Nov 10, 2020

Stingwing
Mar 26, 2010

Thank you Mr President for Making America Great Again! USA #1! I shouldn't have to understand other cultures, I'm a god damn American hero.

Fools Infinite posted:

Canon killed off brand flash compatibility for the latest entry level model, the sl3, but I think that is the only model affected so far.

Godox came out with a firmware update that is supposed to fix this.

Fools Infinite
Mar 21, 2006
Journeyman

powderific posted:

If you can get the flash off camera it's even better.

Most flashes have an optical slave mode where they fire everytime another flash does, so you can turn the brightness on the on camera flash down and use that to trigger the off camera flash. Just make sure you pick the right optical slave mode, one is for automatic ttl flash and the other for manual.

xzzy
Mar 5, 2009

XBenedict posted:

Can relate. I have to boost shadows so high that all my black cat pictures look like this.



Just leash train them and go with god's softbox!



(I know she's not a proper void cat but with indoor lighting it's about the same, it's max ISO or a blurry cat)

powderific
May 13, 2004

Grimey Drawer

Fools Infinite posted:

Most flashes have an optical slave mode where they fire everytime another flash does, so you can turn the brightness on the on camera flash down and use that to trigger the off camera flash. Just make sure you pick the right optical slave mode, one is for automatic ttl flash and the other for manual.

Just so the OP knows, "most" does not include the 430 Ex II they're looking at. Which is a good reason to look at Godox/other instead too.

Deadite
Aug 30, 2003

A fat guy, a watermelon, and a stack of magazines?
Family.

powderific posted:

Just so the OP knows, "most" does not include the 430 Ex II they're looking at. Which is a good reason to look at Godox/other instead too.

Does the 430EX III RT have that? They’re the same price on Canon’s website but I’m not sure why. I was looking at the EX II originally because that is in my price range and seemed like a good option for an amateur photographer, but I’m willing to look at anything around the same price

powderific
May 13, 2004

Grimey Drawer
Both of them need an additional accessory for that to work on the T5, either a transmitter thing or another flash. Canon makes triggers, but you'd really be better off just going with something from Godox or Flashpoint as they're more capable for the price and the stuff you add on later is pretty cheap. So you could get the on camera flash now, still be able to trigger it optically with the pop up flash, and then later add a more advanced wireless trigger or more flashes off the camera. You can do the same thing for Canon, but it's more expensive and you don't have the option to move up to bigger plug into the wall lights (not that she's gonna necessarily want to do that.)

You should make sure it's not a T5i though, as that DOES have the ability to control the 430exII optically, I think.

Rated PG-34
Jul 1, 2004




i recently picked up a used 90ex for a light fill flash (not the greatest as no HSS) and wireless master. canon wireless tech sucks, but it was p cheap at $25.

Fools Infinite
Mar 21, 2006
Journeyman
You could also get the godox/yongou and use it off manually camera by triggering it optically with the built in flash, and buy the trigger later if you decide. If you do want ttl, make sure to get the canon compatible flash and trigger, they also have cheaper all manual versions.

I also have a lightpix q20ii I use more often than my larger godox flashes. It is not very powerful and no ttl, but has a built in transmitter/receiver, is very small, and is cheaper than the manual godox and trigger.

French Canadian
Feb 23, 2004

Fluffy cat sensory experience

qirex posted:

The X100F is just barely too big to be a true pocket camera, imo. I love mine but I never use the optical viewfinder and it weighs enough that I almost always just use a real camera strap instead of a wrist one. If you don’t use a lens hood it will fit in a coat pocket but it’s pretty dense and feels weird. I pretty much only do that when it’s raining.

It’s pretty much the smallest thing with a full set of dedicated manual controls which is nice. The other stuff I was shopping when I got mine was the Panasonic LX100 II and the Fuji X-E3 which you could probably get a good deal on. The X100 and X-Pro [which is surprisingly a lot bigger in hand than you’d think] are the only ones with the hybrid optical viewfinder though. Why is that your banner feature?

I guess I'm not after a seriously pocketable camera, honestly. Just something smallish.

The EV thing...I figure if I'm dropping enough $$ it should have one. But you're prob right that I'd not use it much. I hear people talk about sunlight issues. I'm not aiming for perfect composition or anything but is it hard to dial in things on a screen if I don't want to use full auto?

The LX100 has an extending lens so I wanted to avoid it, though I might be misunderstanding how it operates. Does the lens stay retracted when you power it on at first? Or does it pop out automatically no matter what? I am a huge fan of the shots this guy gets with his though: http://regex.info/blog/2015-06-16/2587. He's not like a photography god but his usage of it on bike rides is awesome.

If I went for a Fuji X-E3...what pancake lens would you suggest?

Fools Infinite posted:

Panasonic used to make seriously compact bodies, the gm5 even has an evf, but the prices are higher than slightly larger newer bodies. The gx7/8/9/85 are all range finder styled and pretty small, comparable to an x100. Panasonic does 2 pancake lenses, the 14mm (~28mm eq, wider than the x100's ~35mm eq) which is very small but not top of the line, and a very well respected 20mm (~40mm eq, a little more telephoto, but comparable).

Interesting stuff here for sure. Thanks! The GM5 is so tiny holy crap...but the used market seems barren.

French Canadian fucked around with this message at 19:09 on Nov 10, 2020

Fools Infinite
Mar 21, 2006
Journeyman
I think qirex was asking why you wanted the optical viewfinder, which the x100/xpro series has along with a normal evf. The optical viewfinder on the x100/xpro is like a rangefinder, it is just a window with optics and an information overlay (as opposed to a dslr where you look through the lens with a mirror and prism).

The hybrid optical/electronic viewfinder is a gimmick for the x100/xpro, but should get a camera with an evf.

The only really compact pancake from fuji is the 27mm f2.8, but I would personally prefer the 23mm f2 (which is ~35mm equivalent like the x100), even if it is a little larger. They also make a very affordable 35mm f2 xc (~50mm equivalent) which is a higher end lens in a cheaper plastic casing. The 18mm f2 (~28mm equivalent) is pancake shaped but not particularly small.

Some compacts (like the gr) can be turned on without extending the lens, but most extend as soon as you power on. They may also retract in a power saving mode. Also some kit lenses on interchangeable lens camera need to be extended or extend automatically. The fuji 15-45mm (the kit lens that comes with the x-t200) is a power zoom that extends automatically.

The lx100 is a good choice as well. It uses a micro four thirds size sensor, but there is no comparable zoom lens for micro four thirds that is as small and wide aperture. But you could get a larger/faster zoom (or slower smaller zoom) and a pancake lens for when you want something small on an interchangeable micro four thirds camera. The lx100ii isn't a big upgrade over the original.

An x100s/t is still a fun, capable camera, and won't be hard to sell on again if you find it isn't right for you, or if you decided you want an interchangeable lens camera. (There are also 28/50mm equivalent converters for the x100 series.)

French Canadian
Feb 23, 2004

Fluffy cat sensory experience

Fools Infinite posted:

I think qirex was asking why you wanted the optical viewfinder, which the x100/xpro series has along with a normal evf. The optical viewfinder on the x100/xpro is like a rangefinder, it is just a window with optics and an information overlay (as opposed to a dslr where you look through the lens with a mirror and prism).

The hybrid optical/electronic viewfinder is a gimmick for the x100/xpro, but should get a camera with an evf.

The only really compact pancake from fuji is the 27mm f2.8, but I would personally prefer the 23mm f2 (which is ~35mm equivalent like the x100), even if it is a little larger. They also make a very affordable 35mm f2 xc (~50mm equivalent) which is a higher end lens in a cheaper plastic casing. The 18mm f2 (~28mm equivalent) is pancake shaped but not particularly small.

Some compacts (like the gr) can be turned on without extending the lens, but most extend as soon as you power on. They may also retract in a power saving mode. Also some kit lenses on interchangeable lens camera need to be extended or extend automatically. The fuji 15-45mm (the kit lens that comes with the x-t200) is a power zoom that extends automatically.

The lx100 is a good choice as well. It uses a micro four thirds size sensor, but there is no comparable zoom lens for micro four thirds that is as small and wide aperture. But you could get a larger/faster zoom (or slower smaller zoom) and a pancake lens for when you want something small on an interchangeable micro four thirds camera. The lx100ii isn't a big upgrade over the original.

An x100s/t is still a fun, capable camera, and won't be hard to sell on again if you find it isn't right for you, or if you decided you want an interchangeable lens camera. (There are also 28/50mm equivalent converters for the x100 series.)

Sorry, my newbiness is showing. I thought they were just asking if I cared about having a viewfinder of any type. To which I suppose I do, but whether it's electronic or just optical I can't fathom it would matter to me much.

Does the LX100 actually extend its lens during power-on? If I can just switch it on quickly and take a shot without it extending, that's what I am after. I suppose the optical zoom granted by the moving lens is then just a bonus...

The X70 seems p cool actually...like a small X100 of sorts. I'm staring at this review comparison: https://mirrorlesscomparison.com/fujifilm-vs-fujifilm/x70-vs-x100t/ But then why not go for the successor, the XF10? I don't feel like I need a hotshoe nor tilting screen. And it can utilize hood attachments at the very least.

French Canadian fucked around with this message at 20:04 on Nov 10, 2020

powderific
May 13, 2004

Grimey Drawer
The LX100 does do some lens moving when it turns on and off. Why do you want the lens to not extend? Even the X100 has a little bit of movement on the lens when it's focusing/turning on/whatever. The thing you gain from some of the lens extending compacts, like the GR, is that its lens cover is built into the mechanism. I can hit the power button on mine as I'm pulling it from my pocket and it's generally ready to go before I've got it pointed at anything. (and I don't think the GR is considered particularly fast)

Imaging Resource generally publishes power on to first shot times for things if that's what you're after. Just keep in mind that anything with a lens cap they aren't accounting for that time. x100f 1.4 seconds, LX100 is actually pretty slow at 2.8 second, GR 1.6 seconds, X70 .8 seconds.


edit: the XF10 doesn't seem to get great reviews for autofocus or general speed. And if you're really concerned about having a non-extending lens for speed reasons, I imagine that might be a downside, yeah?

double edit for quote:

French Canadian posted:

The LX100 has an extending lens so I wanted to avoid it, though I might be misunderstanding how it operates. Does the lens stay retracted when you power it on at first? Or does it pop out automatically no matter what? I am a huge fan of the shots this guy gets with his though: http://regex.info/blog/2015-06-16/2587. He's not like a photography god but his usage of it on bike rides is awesome.

This dude also rocks a giant D4 one handed on the bike so I wouldn't necessarily read into the LX100's usability based on him. I really like my GR for a one hand camera if that's what you're after.

powderific fucked around with this message at 20:48 on Nov 10, 2020

XBenedict
May 23, 2006

YOUR LIPS SAY 0, BUT YOUR EYES SAY 1.

xzzy posted:

Just leash train them and go with god's softbox!



(I know she's not a proper void cat but with indoor lighting it's about the same, it's max ISO or a blurry cat)

If you leash trained that, then it isn't a cat. Nice cat outfit though.

Fools Infinite
Mar 21, 2006
Journeyman
I've never had an issue with the gr ii/iii as far as power on to first shot time goes, even with the lens extending, and it was definitely faster than having a lens cap. The big downside to extending/retracting the lens all the time that it pulls dust into the camera, which is very hard to clean off the sensor on a compact. The gr/ii/iii are really bad for this.

French Canadian
Feb 23, 2004

Fluffy cat sensory experience

powderific posted:

The LX100 does do some lens moving when it turns on and off. Why do you want the lens to not extend? Even the X100 has a little bit of movement on the lens when it's focusing/turning on/whatever. The thing you gain from some of the lens extending compacts, like the GR, is that its lens cover is built into the mechanism. I can hit the power button on mine as I'm pulling it from my pocket and it's generally ready to go before I've got it pointed at anything. (and I don't think the GR is considered particularly fast)

Imaging Resource generally publishes power on to first shot times for things if that's what you're after. Just keep in mind that anything with a lens cap they aren't accounting for that time. x100f 1.4 seconds, LX100 is actually pretty slow at 2.8 second, GR 1.6 seconds, X70 .8 seconds.


edit: the XF10 doesn't seem to get great reviews for autofocus or general speed. And if you're really concerned about having a non-extending lens for speed reasons, I imagine that might be a downside, yeah?

double edit for quote:


This dude also rocks a giant D4 one handed on the bike so I wouldn't necessarily read into the LX100's usability based on him. I really like my GR for a one hand camera if that's what you're after.

I don't want the lens to extend because it just seems to waste a bunch of time. But I see what you're saying about some lenses extending pretty quick. Disclosure: I already have a Sony ZV-1 (though it's really my wife's), and the whole in/out/in/out thing is annoying. I think it's also that I can't really bring myself to use it in a compromised environment. It's also why I'm interested in a cheaper used option. I stress over dust and crap getting into the moving bits and as you might guess I'm way into the idea of using a camera on a bike (please don't suggest getting a fancy phone instead :mad:). I think I'd really prefer to pop off a lens cap or at least have the only moving part be a front closure/shutter thingy (as opposed to a lens cap). I really want the simplicity of a fixed prime lens (at least in my made up usage scenarios I do...).

powderific
May 13, 2004

Grimey Drawer
Just so you're aware, with the X100 at least there's still the same kinda lens barrel moving back and forth, it's just inset in the body and doesn't have to extend. Not that it wouldn't be durable, but there's still a seam and wiggly bit there that are definitely not weather sealed. It feels nicer than RX100 / ZV1 kinda things though, and isn't necessarily fragile or anything.

For speed, the LX100 from what I remember feels as slow as the specs make it sound so I'd say avoid that. FWIW while I find the extending barrel on the RX100 type cameras annoying, it doesn't really bother me with the GR. The dust thing Fools Infinite mentioned is an issue to be aware of, though for whatever reason it has never been an issue with the photos I take.

DJExile
Jun 28, 2007


Ordered the Olympus 2x teleconverter because I'm at the point in my life where I cannot at all justify what I'm sure will be like a $4-5000 price point on the 150-400mm Pro, but I'm still very stupid and want to see animals 2 states away with the 300mm f/4.

jarlywarly
Aug 31, 2018

DJExile posted:

Ordered the Olympus 2x teleconverter because I'm at the point in my life where I cannot at all justify what I'm sure will be like a $4-5000 price point on the 150-400mm Pro, but I'm still very stupid and want to see animals 2 states away with the 300mm f/4.

Does that get you 600 f/8? On m43? That's a lot of reach.

DJExile
Jun 28, 2007


jarlywarly posted:

Does that get you 600 f/8? On m43? That's a lot of reach.

Yep, 1200mm equivalent :pcgaming:

ExecuDork
Feb 25, 2007

We might be fucked, sir.
Fallen Rib

Fools Infinite posted:

Most flashes have an optical slave mode where they fire everytime another flash does, so you can turn the brightness on the on camera flash down and use that to trigger the off camera flash. Just make sure you pick the right optical slave mode, one is for automatic ttl flash and the other for manual.

This. Work with her after she unwraps the gift to work out the mechanics here, and fire off a zillion test shots of the bunnies.

THEN, split a bottle of wine between the two of you, and go nuts with off-camera flash and that macro lens. It's stupidly fun to get big dumb flares all over the background of a leaf of a houseplant with an aphid or just some dust on it. The half-bottle of wine in your veins is a necessary part of this.

With the necessary caveat about flash / camera compatibility. I've got a couple of Yongnuo flashes and I'm very happy with them. But I shoot Pentax so it's a bit of a different ball game.

TheFluff
Dec 13, 2006

FRIENDS, LISTEN TO ME
I AM A SEAGULL
OF WEALTH AND TASTE
Just wanted to thank you guys again for the advice from the other week and for challenging my assumptions. I considered pretty long and hard what I actually want from the hobby, what I actually do and what lenses I actually use (not many, as it turns out), and also went to a store and got to handle a few different MILC's.

In the end what I ended up doing was abandoning my original plan to get a 70D or 80D. I managed to sell all the Canon stuff except the 500D body (that thing is probably hard to get rid of, it's worth almost nothing these days), found a good deal on a used Fuji X-T20 including the 18-55 f/2.8-4.0 and managed to pick up an extremely cheap brand new 50-230 F/4.5-6.7 from an eBay retailer in Italy. Ended up slightly over the originally intended budget but not by much and I'm happy with what I got.

What made me go for this over the original Canon DSLR option was mainly two things - size/ergonomics and focus peaking. I love how small the X-T20 is and I love the dials (I also hate how small it is and how easy it is to accidentally hit the right D-pad, but welp). I want to get some actually usable photos out of the old 400mm manual lens I have and I'm really not good enough to do that without focus peaking. On the 500D I couldn't even get focus confirmation with that lens even with an appropriate adapter because it was simply too long/slow (AIUI). I could maybe have gotten a Canon MILC instead but I just couldn't find one I liked at a reasonable price on the used market.

I've only had the X-T20 for about two days now but I'm extremely happy with it so far. Already having a lot more fun with it than I ever had with the 500D. Also wondering why in the heck I never picked up a telezoom before. Just wish I had the budget for a faster one since f/6.7 is pretty rear end even with image stabilization (and especially so in Scandinavia in November - what is even daylight?). Ah well, next year maybe.

Still managed to get this shot with it today though and that made me very happy, as lovely as it is:



(Eurasian jay - 230mm, fatfingered F/7.1, 1/500, ISO 3200. It's not even in focus properly, but this is literally the best photo of a bird I have ever taken, so feeling pretty happy about it.)

TheFluff fucked around with this message at 16:07 on Nov 14, 2020

powderific
May 13, 2004

Grimey Drawer
Yay, glad you wound up with something you like! That's a great setup that'll last you a long time.

Easychair Bootson
May 7, 2004

Where's the last guy?
Ultimo hombre.
Last man standing.
Must've been one.
Yeah, congrats. That’s a pretty solid setup on a budget.

harperdc
Jul 24, 2007

TheFluff posted:

Just wanted to thank you guys again for the advice from the other week and for challenging my assumptions. I considered pretty long and hard what I actually want from the hobby, what I actually do and what lenses I actually use (not many, as it turns out), and also went to a store and got to handle a few different MILC's.

...

Still managed to get this shot with it today though and that made me very happy, as lovely as it is:



(Eurasian jay - 230mm, fatfingered F/7.1, 1/500, ISO 3200. It's not even in focus properly, but this is literally the best photo of a bird I have ever taken, so feeling pretty happy about it.)

that's from the 50-230? Dang, not too shabby.

glad that discussion helped out -- the MILCs really are a nice way to go and get serious performance out of a smaller camera. And I think you'll be happy with Fuji, too - there's a lot of room to grow. The 55-200 is a little faster and built similar to the 18-55 you have, and there's going to be a 70-300 out next year that should come in near that for price-point. And then there's the 100-400...and extenders too.

BeastOfExmoor
Aug 19, 2003

I will be gone, but not forever.

TheFluff posted:

Just wanted to thank you guys again for the advice from the other week and for challenging my assumptions.

...

Nice! Focus peaking is awesome. It's really hard to describe some of the things you gain from mirrorless. The what-you-see-is-what-you-get nature really improves the experience. Glad you found something you're happy with.

jarlywarly
Aug 31, 2018
Anyone got a Tokina AT-X 11-20 PRO DX? I am getting urges for a wide angle for my 80D (crop) maybe for some astro and some more general wide stuff, its this or the 10-18 Canon and forget about astro cos I probably won't give up my sleep.

BetterLekNextTime
Jul 22, 2008

It's all a matter of perspective...
Grimey Drawer

jarlywarly posted:

Anyone got a Tokina AT-X 11-20 PRO DX? I am getting urges for a wide angle for my 80D (crop) maybe for some astro and some more general wide stuff, its this or the 10-18 Canon and forget about astro cos I probably won't give up my sleep.

I've got a Sigma 8-16 that I rarely use. It's not a fast lens but you can't get much wider than that!

Fools Infinite
Mar 21, 2006
Journeyman
Another choice for astrophotography is a fast manual focus prime.

BeastOfExmoor
Aug 19, 2003

I will be gone, but not forever.

Fools Infinite posted:

Another choice for astrophotography is a fast manual focus prime.

None of these exist for crop EF mounts that gets you truly into ultra wide territory ( < 16mm). Sadly.

BetterLekNextTime
Jul 22, 2008

It's all a matter of perspective...
Grimey Drawer

BeastOfExmoor posted:

None of these exist for crop EF mounts that gets you truly into ultra wide territory ( < 16mm). Sadly.

Rokinon 14mm? You can use EF on a crop mount, but not the other way around (EF-S lens on a full frame EF camera).

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xzzy
Mar 5, 2009

I think aperture is more valuable than wide angle anyways, especially if you ever want to do meteor showers. That sigma 20mm 1.4. :allears:

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