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Mister Facetious posted:The M1 is more capable than the Switch, Steam is way cheaper than the eShop, and you can plug an Air into a TV and use a wireless controller as easily as an external monitor. spunkshui posted:I think this is hype that may not be fully justified I mean it’s very likely that this thing is only going to run wow at 20 to 15 FPS when you actually put it into a situation people play the actual game in. You're both missing the point. The relative "power" of the chip is completely irrelevant when the only games you can play are a subsection of the already tiny selection of Steam games for Mac that will survive running in an emulation layer. You can no longer Boot Camp for the games that won't run otherwise. I'm sure it's fine for playing games if you can get them running, especially natively, but that's not happening for a long while yet. The only thing that matters for a gaming platform is games and the Mac ain't it, chief.
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Nov 18, 2020 16:56
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Dr. Fishopolis posted:What about the Macbook Air makes you think of it as a games machine? If you actually want a computer primarily to play games with, a Mac should be your very last choice. If you really want to play hot indie games on your couch, a Switch will do you much better. I just like gaming on the couch and already have a large steam library. I already have a Zephyrus G14 but it's completely overkill when I'm over here playing Hades, Stardew Valley, etc level games. I don't want a Switch since the games are expensive, the issues with the joycons (I'd get a light if I was buying one), and the lowish battery life. Also the fact I've got two young kids and they'd both want one too. Right now they're happy with their hacked 2DSes. What's not to love about a fanless laptop that can play the games you want? It makes a lot more sense for me to pick up another laptop since I'll soon have two kids in school with online homework and classes instead of a dedicated gaming console.
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Nov 18, 2020 17:00
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Rinkles posted:It should be a good emulation machine too, I imagine Would love to see a Dolphin benchmark
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Nov 18, 2020 17:03
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Subjunctive posted:I wish Gamer Jesus would do a review/analysis of the M1 machines. I dunno if he’s ever done anything with Apple stuff, but I like his methods and reporting. You mean Metal Jesus? He doesn’t really do benchmarks, more like informal impressions. But he is a Mac guy and seems to like playing Mac games if they’re available and run well. Dr. Fishopolis posted:What about the Macbook Air makes you think of it as a games machine? If you actually want a computer primarily to play games with, a Mac should be your very last choice. If you really want to play hot indie games on your couch, a Switch will do you much better. I don’t disagree but it’s not like most of the best indie third party games on Switch don’t also release on Steam for Mac and the iOS App Store, often for like 25%-50% of the price. No reason I can’t successfully play Dead Cells or Thimbleweed Park on like any good laptop or tablet in 2020. And something like Obra Dinn or Baba Is You is frankly both a worse and often a much pricier experience on Switch.
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Nov 18, 2020 17:06
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Ok Comboomer posted:You mean Metal Jesus? He doesn’t really do benchmarks, more like informal impressions. But he is a Mac guy and seems to like playing Mac games if they’re available and run well. Gamers Nexus
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Nov 18, 2020 17:06
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CFox posted:I just like gaming on the couch and already have a large steam library. I already have a Zephyrus G14 but it's completely overkill when I'm over here playing Hades, Stardew Valley, etc level games. I don't want a Switch since the games are expensive, the issues with the joycons (I'd get a light if I was buying one), and the lowish battery life. Also the fact I've got two young kids and they'd both want one too. Right now they're happy with their hacked 2DSes. What's not to love about a fanless laptop that can play the games you want? It makes a lot more sense for me to pick up another laptop since I'll soon have two kids in school with online homework and classes instead of a dedicated gaming console. Honestly it sounds like an amount of cash that doesn't mean a whole lot to you so just go for it. If you have a G14, you're obviously not missing out anyway. All I'm saying is the new Air is a cool product that is also the worst way to spend $1000 on gaming. If you want it for other reasons, go nuts. Ok Comboomer posted:I don’t disagree but it’s not like most of the best indie third party games on Switch don’t also release on Steam for Mac and the iOS App Store, often for like 25%-50% of the price. No reason I can’t successfully play Dead Cells or Thimbleweed Park on like any good laptop or tablet in 2020. Yeah, games are more expensive on the eShop. I don't think that will ever close the $800 gulf between a Switch Lite and a Macbook though, and you're not going to play BOTW on your macbook. I'm not saying you can't run games on a Macbook Air. I'm saying its one of the worst primary use cases you could have to justify the expense. Dr. Fishopolis fucked around with this message at 17:11 on Nov 18, 2020 |
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Nov 18, 2020 17:08
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Dr. Fishopolis posted:You're both missing the point. The relative "power" of the chip is completely irrelevant when the only games you can play are a subsection of the already tiny selection of Steam games for Mac that will survive running in an emulation layer. You can no longer Boot Camp for the games that won't run otherwise. There's a number of very popular games that run on metal, and if they aren't already recompiled for arm i can't imagine it's going to take long. I don't think being excited at having a silent laptop that can handle some light gaming duties while also being, you know, a laptop when you need it is wrong, chief, since getting a console of any sort limits you to solely playing games (in one room if you aren't getting a switch, and hope nobody else wants to use the TV) and maybe an occasional netflix show.
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Nov 18, 2020 17:09
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Dr. Fishopolis posted:You're both missing the point. The relative "power" of the chip is completely irrelevant when the only games you can play are a subsection of the already tiny selection of Steam games for Mac that will survive running in an emulation layer. You can no longer Boot Camp for the games that won't run otherwise. And yet it already runs in emulation games that can't be bought on the Nintendo Switch.
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Nov 18, 2020 17:11
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mAlfunkti0n posted:I received my Pro yesterday. If you happen to have Steam versions of either Battletech, Stellaris, Civ 6, or Elder Scrolls Online I’d love to know how/if they run. I haven’t seen any of these show up in any testing reports, and their requirements are uniformly pretty low, if these all run well on M1 then I really wouldn’t ever *need* a PC for anything beyond running the occasional Windows app which I currently do on my bootcamped 2013 MBP.
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Nov 18, 2020 17:14
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^ Bootcamp specifically does not work on the M1 Macs. Civilization 6 would be especially interesting, as AI turn time has pretty much always been pegged to straight clock speed.
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Nov 18, 2020 17:21
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Ok Comboomer posted:You mean Metal Jesus? He doesn’t really do benchmarks, more like informal impressions. But he is a Mac guy and seems to like playing Mac games if they’re available and run well. Sorry, Steve Burke from Gamers Nexus.
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Nov 18, 2020 17:23
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Mister Facetious posted:^ Bootcamp specifically does not work on the M1 Macs. yeah the point was that they'd need a PC for that. i'm curious to see what sort of support VMs are going to get
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Nov 18, 2020 17:26
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Dr. Fishopolis posted:Honestly it sounds like an amount of cash that doesn't mean a whole lot to you so just go for it. If you have a G14, you're obviously not missing out anyway. All I'm saying is the new Air is a cool product that is also the worst way to spend $1000 on gaming. If you want it for other reasons, go nuts. Yes, but now you’re making weirder value propositions that don’t make sense. A Nintendo Switch isn’t ever supposed to close the $800 gulf with a MacBook Air. A Nintendo switch is a Tegra 1-powered 720p tablet made for playing highly optimized games developed for/ported to the platform. Although I suppose I can run the shittiest, most broken version of Korg Gadget on Switch, I’ll never be able to run Ableton on it, or Lightroom, or Microsoft Office. MacBook Airs are supposed to do tons of things that a Nintendo Switch (which I own by the way, so it’s not like I’m unfamiliar) will never do. Having the ability to play a game well enough is gravy. It means that maybe I don’t have to carry the Switch with me to lab, or to a conference or whatever, and I can still occasionally get some screen time in on a low-demand indie title, which may or may not be best intended to be played from a desktop rather than console-style. Mister Facetious posted:^ Bootcamp specifically does not work on the M1 Macs. Good thing all of the games I mentioned run natively on Mac OS. What I meant with my original post is that the only thing “forcing” me to have access to Win10 is a couple of job-specific apps that already run fine bootcamped on an old machine.
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Nov 18, 2020 17:30
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Ok Comboomer posted:If you happen to have Steam versions of either Battletech, Stellaris, Civ 6, or Elder Scrolls Online I’d love to know how/if they run. OK its running, it did something funky with the installer. Checking to see what games i have. mAlfunkti0n fucked around with this message at 17:34 on Nov 18, 2020 |
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Nov 18, 2020 17:30
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Ok Comboomer posted:
Like emulation allowing orders of magnitude more nes and snes games than Nintendo's app will ever have. Ooh! Wait! See if OpenEmu will run in Rosetta! Emulate an emulator, so you can emulate while you're emulating! 
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Nov 18, 2020 17:35
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Ok Comboomer posted:MacBook Airs are supposed to do tons of things that a Nintendo Switch (which I own by the way, so it’s not like I’m unfamiliar) will never do. Having the ability to play a game well enough is gravy. It means that maybe I don’t have to carry the Switch with me to lab, or to a conference or whatever, and I can still occasionally get some screen time in on a low-demand indie title, which may or may not be best intended to be played from a desktop rather than console-style. Dr. Fishopolis posted:I'm not saying you can't run games on a Macbook Air. I'm saying its one of the worst primary use cases you could have to justify the expense.
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Nov 18, 2020 17:38
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does anybody ever buy a Mac as a primarily-gaming device? I sure as poo poo hope not (if I was money-is-no-object rich I’d prolly game on a Mac Pro just to troll people)
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Nov 18, 2020 17:44
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I hope my forthcoming M1 Air plays Baldur’s Gate and that’s about it as far as gaming goes.
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Nov 18, 2020 17:46
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most indie games support mac at this point, and about 30-50% of AA and AAA games not that they run great on my 2016 mbp but it is fine for light gamer stuff currently the only game i play on my actual gaming pc is amazing cultivation sim lol
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Nov 18, 2020 17:48
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Dr. Fishopolis posted:What about the Macbook Air makes you think of it as a games machine? If you actually want a computer primarily to play games with, a Mac should be your very last choice. If you really want to play hot indie games on your couch, a Switch will do you much better. Arn't iOS apps supported day one? I thought apple moved all iOS apps to the Mac store and companies had to opt out of their apps showing up. Unless I am mistaken, the M1 Macs run iOS apps day one with the mouse replacing the touch interface.
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Nov 18, 2020 17:51
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Ok Comboomer posted:does anybody ever buy a Mac as a primarily-gaming device? I sure as poo poo hope not This whole thing started because some dude was like "the macbook air is my dream indie game machine" and I was like "wtf u on about m8" turns out said dude already has the most baller possible windows gaming laptop anyway, so all these posts are the result of a false alarm combined with a game of telephone
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Nov 18, 2020 17:54
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Ok Comboomer posted:If you happen to have Steam versions of either Battletech, Stellaris, Civ 6, or Elder Scrolls Online I’d love to know how/if they run. I currently dont have any of those, but I am going to see if I can get a couple of those. I do have Subnautica running, it is smooth at medium and *mostly* smooth at high settings @ native res. oh: cities skylines is available .. downloading and will report back. edit: cities skylines runs really well .. going to push it more. mAlfunkti0n fucked around with this message at 18:01 on Nov 18, 2020 |
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Nov 18, 2020 17:54
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badjohny posted:Arn't iOS apps supported day one? I thought apple moved all iOS apps to the Mac store and companies had to opt out of their apps showing up. Unless I am mistaken, the M1 Macs run iOS apps day one with the mouse replacing the touch interface. Yeah but people generally dislike using a touch interface with a mouse. It just doesn't work quite as well as you feel it should.
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Nov 18, 2020 17:57
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Personally, I have less than 0 interest in buying a Switch or playing any Nintendo game. But I like World of Warcraft and western RPGs in general (like Baldur's Gate). The Switch simply isn't attractive to everyone.
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Nov 18, 2020 17:59
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I don't game on my Mac much at all, have a PS4/Switch for that. BUT this thread reminded me I own ES:O and so I'm going to play that on my Mac. Thanks thread! I'm sure it'll perform better on my 2019 16" than it did on my 2013 MBP.
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Nov 18, 2020 17:59
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badjohny posted:Arn't iOS apps supported day one? I thought apple moved all iOS apps to the Mac store and companies had to opt out of their apps showing up. Unless I am mistaken, the M1 Macs run iOS apps day one with the mouse replacing the touch interface. And a lot of the ones that did make it have issues, because they were never made for an OS with scalable windows, or even the ability to reposition them on the screen. There are ios games with no keyboard support, so you need to use your mouse to click and drag the virtual joystick. And that works, but then comes up the question of... "how do I press the buttons too?"
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Nov 18, 2020 18:02
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Fame Douglas posted:Personally, I have less than 0 interest in buying a Switch or playing any Nintendo game. But I like World of Warcraft and western RPGs in general (like Baldur's Gate). The Switch simply isn't attractive to everyone.
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Nov 18, 2020 18:02
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Fame Douglas posted:Personally, I have less than 0 interest in buying a Switch or playing any Nintendo game. But I like World of Warcraft and western RPGs in general (like Baldur's Gate). The Switch simply isn't attractive to everyone. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n3I5y-YBs5Q This guy is running it on 3/10 and getting 60, but its still pretty useless info because he could be over the cap. Seriously doubt 10/10 will hold 40fps if you aren't on a boat. still cant find anyone showing it annoyingly edit: his settings are in the description.
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Nov 18, 2020 18:03
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Oh and since someone asked about Elder Scrolls: Online here's what they say: "As most Mac users know, last summer Apple announced that new Macs will no longer be built with Intel CPUs. Instead, new Macs will utilize a new custom-built ARM CPU going forward. The first of these devices was announced earlier this month at an Apple event. Please be aware that these new ARM-based Macs cannot run software created for Intel-based computers. Additionally, these new machines will not support Boot Camp either, so you cannot dual boot an ARM-based Mac into Windows. This means that all software running on the new Macs must either be re-written for ARM or must run through an emulator. X86 emulation comes with a significant performance impact—in general, emulation is okay for software like office productivity apps, but not for gaming. All of this puts a burden on software developers like ZOS to port their products to the new architecture. It is a huge undertaking to port a product as old, large, and complex as ESO to a new CPU, with no certain outcome of success. Because of these factors, we will not be porting ESO to run on the new ARM-based Macs. ESO will continue to run on Intel-based Macs, and we will support it as long as there is a large enough Mac user base to warrant it. While it will be technically possible to run ESO via x86 emulation on the new Macs, expect a subpar gaming experience that we will not officially support. If you purchase a new ARM-based Mac, you will still have some options to play ESO. The most obvious one is that you can log into your account from any PC (or Intel-based Mac) and still be able to play with all of your account and character data. You also have the option of playing (with your current account and characters) on Stadia, a cloud-streaming service that uses the same servers as your current Mac-based accounts—so if you do use Stadia, you can continue to play uninterrupted with your existing account and character data. Matt"
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Nov 18, 2020 18:08
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I used to be super into games right up until the Nintendo 3DS, hit a point where they all became meh to me, closest I feel like getting to games now is running A-10 in a 68000 simulator to see how far I can get the pilot to travel when I set off the nuke while taking off from a runway. Or seeing how many pieces I can get my Spitfire to break into doing a vertical dive from 20000 feet in Sturmovik. https://www.macrumors.com/2020/11/18/apple-silicon-mac-mini-teardown/ Looks like mostly empty space inside the Mini. poo poo, if there weren't a fan (the same old fan from the Intel version) you could probably hammer it all into an AppleTV-size enclosure.
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Nov 18, 2020 18:19
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Yup which is why most people should wait for gen 2 machines with shell redesigns where it’ll get really spicy
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Nov 18, 2020 18:21
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spunkshui posted:I think this is hype that may not be fully justified I mean it’s very likely that this thing is only going to run wow at 20 to 15 FPS when you actually put it into a situation people play the actual game in. new thread title mods Mac Hardware - WoW. WoW. WoW.
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Nov 18, 2020 18:22
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Binary Badger posted:I used to be super into games right up until the Nintendo 3DS, hit a point where they all became meh to me, closest I feel like getting to games now is running A-10 in a 68000 simulator to see how far I can get the pilot to travel when I set off the nuke while taking off from a runway. Or seeing how many pieces I can get my Spitfire to break into doing a vertical dive from 20000 feet in Sturmovik. Intel NUCs (the variant without a 2.5" drive) aren't all that much larger than Apple TVs, the Mac Mini hasn't been super small for many many years - regardless of whether there's an x86 or ARM CPU inside. Fame Douglas fucked around with this message at 18:39 on Nov 18, 2020 |
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Nov 18, 2020 18:34
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Mad Wack posted:most indie games support mac at this point, and about 30-50% of AA and AAA games For a long time the biggest hurdle to PC-competitive games libraries on Mac was Apple’s choice of GPU moreso than any difficulty about the OS. If apple had wanted to push devs to optimize for the hardware we could’ve definitely seen better games and better performance on Mac. I suppose it was more of a chicken/egg problem then. Not enough of an install base or direct support from Apple meant that there was no reason to 1) even release on Mac in most cases 2) optimize for Apple’s lovely GPU choices in 90+% of their computers so there was never any fire to grow the install base mAlfunkti0n posted:oh: cities skylines is available .. downloading and will report back. Feh, get back to me if it runs the GOG version of Simcity 2000
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Nov 18, 2020 18:36
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Hello Spaceman posted:new thread title mods ew. anyway I wonder if their reluctant allowance to let game devs require controllers on platforms like the forlorn Apple TV will bear fruit in playing games on the Mac. Some companies like squeenix are just out and out putting their old games on there for instance, let alone newcomers Fame Douglas posted:Intel NUCs (the variant without a 2.5" drive) aren't all that much larger than Apple TVs, the Mac Mini hasn't been super small for many many years - regardless of whether there's an x86 or ARM CPU inside. Truth. Ain’t quiet or particular power sippers tho ime. I’ve been hoping since the chip announcement that we’d get a Mac mini that is for all intents and purposes an Apple TV 4K sized box.
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Nov 18, 2020 18:36
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So what apple computers or products do they not make that this thread wants them too? (Don’t say anything about loving gaming and your weird college research job involving a .001% use case of data cluster that costs the college or research institution 75k). Give me some real products that would be useful. I’ll start. 1) 14 inch MacBook pros and airs. 2) a separate 5k display with new design, that any of their computers can easily run along with two 4K displays. 3) new iMacs in 24 and 27-32 sizes. 4) a ipod classic with 512 SSD and built in Apple Music support (or your own files). Works with AirPods or wired headphones. $299
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Nov 18, 2020 18:38
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12” MacBook
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Nov 18, 2020 18:39
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I like all of those suggestions. I also kinda want a 10-11- and 16-inch version of the 12-inch macbook but that’s probably not a popular pick.
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Nov 18, 2020 18:39
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A cheaper 4k display to complement the Mac Mini
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Nov 18, 2020 18:41
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squirrelzipper posted:Oh and since someone asked about Elder Scrolls: Online here's what they say: I actually saw this, but thanks for posting it. But I’m really curious to see how it actually does on emulation, given that it should technically run on my 2013 MBP. IIRC the recommended specs for ESO are like ~rx560/i5 so it should be right in the ballpark for what we’ve seen from Rosetta 2 on these current new Macs, and I imagine that a hypothetical M2 or M1X or whatever would do even better. TLDR- I get what you’re saying Matt, but where I hope to go we don’t need native ARM porting
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Nov 18, 2020 18:43
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