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Soricidus posted:Unlikely. Afaict JC believes in the actual labour movement, not the existence of a party called “labour”. Why would he betray his constituents to keep a Tory-lite party alive? Nah he definitely has firm belief in the Labour Party, that's why he stuck with it for decades and urged everyone to stay in it. No doubt he's really sick of all of this though and I expect he'll stand down at the next election and just go on speaking circuits and rallies. Port 443 is the standard port for all secured HTTP traffic.
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Nov 18, 2020 18:34
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Neo Kinnock
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Nov 18, 2020 18:37
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I am wondering what happens come next election, is corbyn allowed to stand if he has the whip withdrawn? If starmer does want to win (or at least want to not seem like he's the reason for the loss) then making corbyn unable to stand at the next election seems like something that is likely to promote a lot of internal conflict during election time. So either he has to reinstate the whip early or boot him out entirely, if he keeps this half measure up indefinitely seems like it would bite him in the arse.
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Nov 18, 2020 18:37
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Soricidus posted:Unlikely. Afaict JC believes in the actual labour movement, not the existence of a party called “labour”. Why would he betray his constituents to keep a Tory-lite party alive? Jeremy believes sincerely & cultishly in a Labour Party that doesn't exist & probably never has in any meaningful way. He's a mug.
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Nov 18, 2020 18:39
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Worth noting that Corbyn is popular enough locally , particularly with the Jewish community in islington, he’d likely and very easily win as an independent if forced to run as one. He’s a tremendous local mp.
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Nov 18, 2020 18:42
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mediaphage posted:Yes and yeah for sure. Like I grew up in the south but still have a number of Yiddish words in my regular vocabulary, for example It didn't help that the press were straight up fabricating quotes by the artist. OwlFancier posted:if he keeps this half measure up indefinitely seems like it would bite him in the arse.
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Nov 18, 2020 18:43
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its cool how boris can write a bunch of antisemitic stuff and nobody gives a poo poo but corbyn likes one mural on facebook...
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Nov 18, 2020 18:48
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Jose posted:its cool how boris can write a bunch of antisemitic stuff and nobody gives a poo poo but corbyn likes one mural on facebook... This is honestly the thing that made me the angriest about all of it. Johnson is simply a misogynist racist. I dunno if I’d say he’s a homophobe exactly but he certainly used similar language. He’s complete and utter trash and like nobody seems to mind
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Nov 18, 2020 18:51
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mediaphage posted:This is honestly the thing that made me the angriest about all of it. Johnson is simply a misogynist racist. I dunno if I’d say he’s a homophobe exactly but he certainly used similar language. He’s complete and utter trash and like nobody seems to mind In short: It's because we live in a media landscape run by racists.
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Nov 18, 2020 18:57
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Guavanaut posted:It's because we live in a media landscape where if you're an anti-racist you're expected to be perfectly and impeccably anti-racist at all times, whereas if you're a 'fun' racist you're allowed to be racist and anyone calling you out is a miserable woke who hates fun. Ah so that’s universal then
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Nov 18, 2020 18:58
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namesake posted:Nah he definitely has firm belief in the Labour Party, that's why he stuck with it for decades and urged everyone to stay in it. No doubt he's really sick of all of this though and I expect he'll stand down at the next election and just go on speaking circuits and rallies. All these ppl stayed all through the Blair years, through the war on iraq etc. in some cases through the original battles with militant; they're pot committed to the Labour Party.
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Nov 18, 2020 18:58
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https://twitter.com/siennamarla/status/1329118717050032133?s=21 Josan is super mad about being outed as part of the panel that unanimously exonerated Corbyn.
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Nov 18, 2020 19:10
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The Labour right are possibly playing the long game here by making sure the distrust between the left and the centre becomes permanent while also waiting for the new disputes process to innately repress leftist internationalist policies as violent or bigoted or something, then force some sort of crisis on Starmer and run someone for leader who will openly adopt the policies they want. This'll work until some random person at a hustings asks them something like 'What makes your platform different from the Tories?' and they make an absolute arse of themselves.
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Nov 18, 2020 19:16
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namesake posted:This'll work until some random person at a hustings asks them something like 'What makes your platform different from the Tories?' and they make an absolute arse of themselves. If centrist dads in America can be convinced that there's "light years" between Biden and Trump then centrist dads in the UK can be convinced of the isomorphic equivalent.
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Nov 18, 2020 19:25
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namesake posted:The Labour right are possibly playing the long game here by making sure the distrust between the left and the centre becomes permanent while also waiting for the new disputes process to innately repress leftist internationalist policies as violent or bigoted or something, then force some sort of crisis on Starmer and run someone for leader who will openly adopt the policies they want. I feel like starmer is the very best candidate the labour right have I don't think they'll ditch him that soon.
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Nov 18, 2020 19:44
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mediaphage posted:This is honestly the thing that made me the angriest about all of it. Johnson is simply a misogynist racist. I dunno if I’d say he’s a homophobe exactly but he certainly used similar language. He’s complete and utter trash and like nobody seems to mind He's definitely homophonic (bumboys quote I cannot be bothered to look up, not to mention probably dozens of his times columns) and more than likely transphobic as well (i mean why not complete the full house).
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Nov 18, 2020 19:45
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I hope the message that left-wing prospective candidates are taking away from this is that there is literally no point in even trying to get on with these utter arseholes. Purge & Intimidate is the way forward and gently caress the 'broad church'
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Nov 18, 2020 19:47
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Communist Thoughts posted:I feel like starmer is the very best candidate the labour right have I don't think they'll ditch him that soon. idk i think someone like ian lavery, who i'm aware has problems, would be popular. starmer only appeals to the hardcore remainers
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Nov 18, 2020 19:48
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thespaceinvader posted:He's definitely homophonic (bumboys quote I cannot be bothered to look up, not to mention probably dozens of his times columns) and more than likely transphobic as well (i mean why not complete the full house).
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Nov 18, 2020 19:49
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thespaceinvader posted:He's definitely homophonic (bumboys quote I cannot be bothered to look up, not to mention probably dozens of his times columns) and more than likely transphobic as well (i mean why not complete the full house). sure, that was the quote i was thinking of. i tend to make a distinction between outright hatred/homophobia and people who casually use homophobic language, in part because one frightens me, one just pisses me off. not everybody does. Guavanaut posted:I imagine he's the casual type of transphobe where it's laughing at the idea of "men wearing dresses" or whatever lazy shite, because I can't imagine him being intellectually curious enough to go on about "large immobile gametes". i'd agree, not that this is that much better, especially for trans folks, and obviously inexcusable in a public figure edit: lol i just noticed the homophonic typo. he's definitely the bore-us type.
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Nov 18, 2020 19:50
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Jose posted:idk i think someone like ian lavery, who i'm aware has problems, would be popular. starmer only appeals to the hardcore remainers Never erd of im
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Nov 18, 2020 19:59
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i don't think he cares enough about other people to be more than casually anything-phobic, but in his case, even casual homophobia matters given that he's *checks notes* the prime minister.
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Nov 18, 2020 20:10
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mediaphage posted:i'd agree, not that this is that much better, especially for trans folks, and obviously inexcusable in a public figure It's like the difference between his "flag-waving piccaninnies" and someone who reads long books about the inherent racial inferiority of the Black mind. 
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Nov 18, 2020 20:12
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Drone_Fragger posted:The mural wasn’t originally antisemitic, the newspapers turned up after Corbyn had defended it and drew big hook noses on all the illuminati types before taking the photo. I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that Corbyn responding with "I didn't even notice that the bankers were Jews" wouldn't help the situation even if the media were acting in good faith.
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Nov 18, 2020 20:14
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Jose posted:idk i think someone like ian lavery, who i'm aware has problems, would be popular. starmer only appeals to the hardcore remainers I’m a pretty solid remainer and I assure you I do not feel the slightest bit attracted to keith stammer
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Nov 18, 2020 20:18
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Jedit posted:I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that Corbyn responding with "I didn't even notice that the bankers were Jews" wouldn't help the situation even if the media were acting in good faith. 4 of the 6 weren't Jewish anyway. And in any case all he would have seen on FB would have been a small image probably no more than an inch or 2 in size when only the general scope of it would have been seen and no 'facial' characteristics. Nothing he did or said would have made a difference. Look at how him suggesting he would buy Johnson a copy of "A Christmas Carol" for Xmas during a pre-election leaders' debate led to accusations of anti-semitism because Charles Dickens also wrote Oliver Twist, and saying Epschtine / Epstine instead of Epsteen. (Let's not have that pronunciation discussion again!) None of them were ever arguing in good faith.
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Nov 18, 2020 20:22
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I thought one of them was supposed to be plato.
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Nov 18, 2020 20:23
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OwlFancier posted:I thought one of them was supposed to be plato. No - Guav and I separately listed them further up the thread. One of them was Aleister Crowley who was quite influential early 20th century. And not Jewish.
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Nov 18, 2020 20:25
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As ever, the only way COrbyn could have been treated fairly was by not being a lifelong committed socialist. If the antisemitism thing hadn't worked they would have just made up something else.
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Nov 18, 2020 20:26
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thespaceinvader posted:COrbyn you know what else is a lethal gas? case closed, jeremy is hitler
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Nov 18, 2020 20:30
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Jaeluni Asjil posted:No - Guav and I separately listed them further up the thread. And of interest to basically no one but me but he used to live near here, down by Loch Ness. The house was later owned by Jimmy Page who I don't think actually lived in it for very much time.
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Nov 18, 2020 20:32
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Jaeluni Asjil posted:(Let's not have that pronunciation discussion again!) thespaceinvader posted:As ever, the only way COrbyn could have been treated fairly was by not being a lifelong committed socialist. If they'd found something else then at least it would not have done that. And I'm not sure what else they could have found that would have done that. The IRA stuff was the only thing that approached it and even then they didn't do it in a way that would deliberately inflame anti-Irish sentiment (they reserved that for covering Varadkar).
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Nov 18, 2020 20:34
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Guavanaut posted:deliberately inflame anti-Irish sentiment (they reserved that for covering Varadkar). tbf Varadkar also inflames anti-Irish sentiment in the Irish
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Nov 18, 2020 20:37
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Maybe we could club together and buy him a whip? A big 18 footer like you use when you've got a whole pack of demonic huskies to keep in line. It'll reach clear from one backbench to the other.
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Nov 18, 2020 20:42
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Drone_Fragger posted:The mural wasn’t originally antisemitic, the newspapers turned up after Corbyn had defended it and drew big hook noses on all the illuminati types before taking the photo. The problem, when you really get right down to it, is that conflating the actions of Israel and Judaisim, or the actions of capitalists and Judaism, are both things which are obviously deeply antisemitic, *except that* it's absolutely fine to do this when you're using this as a stick to beat the left. "Corbyn criticised Palestine therefore he hates Jews!" is obviously conflation of Judaism and Israel but it's fine. "Corbyn is a Marxist, Jews tend to be rich, therefore Corbyn hates Jews!" is obviously deeply problematic, but again, absolutely fine in this context, according to the press and the Board of Deputies and whatever. It's also tied into the whole "cause and effect" narrative about British Jews overwhelmingly voting for the Tories. If this was pointed out then the response was always "Well of course Jews won't vote for Corbyn, he's antisemitic!!" but I think there's a large aspect of things being the other way around: Some of the most prominent Jewish groups like the BoD are deeply Tory in their nature, were before Corbyn was around, and therefore seem more than happy to use their religion as a stick to beat Corbyn with. See my previous post: the likes of Stephen Pollard were attacking Milliband and helping to turn the British Jewish Community against Labour back in 2015 before Corbyn was anywhere near the leadership.
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Nov 18, 2020 20:46
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We got lucky with the latest pod - got the news of the Corbyn un-suspension a few hours before recording so had some time to digest things, also featuring DomCummies, the IRA firing journalists at No. 10, but the majority of the time we talk about the insane article in the Atlantic about female aristocrats not getting to inherit - which causes at least one of us to completely lose their mind! https://twitter.com/PraxisCast/status/1329147846298365953?s=20 Hope people ITT don't mind getting the pod reminder, and please let us know if you want to come on or think we're rubbish.
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Nov 18, 2020 20:52
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Just another example of why you shouldn't trust someone to look out for you on the grounds of shared race or religion or anything else if they have power and you do not. E: whatevil's post, not the podcast.
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Nov 18, 2020 20:53
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OwlFancier posted:Just another example of why you shouldn't trust someone
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Nov 18, 2020 20:56
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Can anyone refresh my tropes.xlsx - was the Miliband two kitchens thing anti-Semitic? And if so how? Is it just Jewish>rich>mansion or something more abstract? Or am I just misremembering
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Nov 18, 2020 20:57
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Yes, and it's because a lot of older houses in Jewish areas had a second smaller kitchen for Passover cooking.
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Nov 18, 2020 21:04
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