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fart simpson)
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indigi posted:this tweet led me to learn that the Chinese mass surveillance system is really called "Skynet?" seems like bad optics I don't think China picks names based on whether they sound like references to US pop culture when translated into English The "social credit" panic was largely manufactured by western propaganda, which constructed a science fiction narrative of everyone having a single number representing social standing. In reality it's a number of different systems ranging from private credit scores and corporate rewards programs to local pilot programs based on awarding points for things like community service and docking them for things like what would in the US be misdemeanors. Another, separate system is a national blacklist for businesses and individuals guilty of fraud or violating regulations. Some of these systems may be integrated in the future, but honestly it makes sense for things like debts, creditworthiness, and fraud to be tracked by the government instead of private entities.
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Nov 18, 2020 23:44
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No Chinese care and talk about the stupid "social credit" system. And frankly nobody care until you can convert the points to Gaokao bonus. I expect the CCP will eventually do something like that to encourage higher birthrate.
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Nov 18, 2020 23:50
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can you convert the social credit points to buy DLC or in-game currency in stuff like genshin impact
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Nov 18, 2020 23:56
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Excuse me for interrupting your regular socialism discussion This vidoe is for BrutualistMacDonald https://youtu.be/4RHg0f5Nq4c This piece of news is for the CarrierChat goons, it flew under the radar a few days ago https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.sc...ully-hit-target This awesome parking spot rage just happened 2 days ago in my neck of the wood. So far this is the most completed version. https://youtu.be/BZk4UIuLRbY
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Nov 19, 2020 00:33
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Lostconfused posted:The economists in central planning were already coming up with liberal reforms under Khruschev, and implement them as soon as he lost his power. It took decades of mismanagement and poor attempts at resolving the problems for the collapse to happen. Eh that is a narrative that is way too kind to the West (Afganistan aside which was a genuine and pointless fuckup) the reason the Soviets spent so much of their military is because they did in fact feel threated by the West and knew that the West often had been technology (this comes and goes through across the Cold War). If anything, China by establishing a trading relationship with the West could emphasize defense spending since they weren't the direct target until much more recently. Btw, China is rapidly increasing defense spending especially its Navy but its overall economy is so large at this point, it isn't especially burdensome. It was a question of timing. Also, nukes are usually not enough on their own. If you have sub-based nukes, you need attack subs and a surface fleet to run interference and if they have B-52s you need interceptors that can take them down. If they have tactical nukes, you need a ground force with considerable NBC protection etc. ------------- Also, Cuba has been liberalizing in recent years in fact to attract tourist money because they have a massive trade deficit. China more recently tried to offset that by building a nickle smelting plant. Ardennes has issued a correction as of 01:38 on Nov 19, 2020 |
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Nov 19, 2020 01:32
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https://twitter.com/llggeorgia/status/1329199405656838151?s=19
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Nov 19, 2020 01:39
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China has probably closely studied East German family planning and socialized child rearing and I wouldn't be surprised to start to see programs similar roll out this decade.
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Nov 19, 2020 01:42
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KaptainKrunk posted:China has probably closely studied East German family planning and socialized child rearing and I wouldn't be surprised to start to see programs similar roll out this decade. Why would you think that? Why would China look at a Soviet satellite that vanished a generation ago?
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Nov 19, 2020 02:31
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This is rich coming from a nation that had doctors and nurses wearing Da Mets rain ponchos during the first COV19 surge in NYC area...
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Nov 19, 2020 02:33
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Ardennes posted:Eh that is a narrative that is way too kind to the West The real world example here is Energia-Buran. It was presented as a military project, but it was far too expensive and impractical for real world military applications. It turned out to be a make work project to maintain the cooperation between space and military industrial sectors. The problem here isn't the defense spending it self. The problem was that the military industrial complex within USSR was creating it's own plans and projects without any input or direction from the central planning apparatus. The liberal reforms that GOSPLAN enacted surrendered it's ability to direct the economy which led to dysfunction within the planned economy. Because in fact the economy wasn't being properly planned anymore.
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Nov 19, 2020 03:13
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etalian posted:This is rich coming from a nation that had doctors and nurses wearing Da Mets rain ponchos during the first COV19 surge in NYC area...
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Nov 19, 2020 04:08
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The CCP must read the national review, because the party responded and is promoting a full rural vitilzation strategy in the 2021 five year plan. Finally, the China Watchers shifted policy. http://www.xinhuanet.com/english/2020-11/03/c_139488389.htm quote:BEIJING, Nov. 3 (Xinhua) -- China will prioritize the development of agriculture and rural areas, and fully advance rural vitalization, according to the full text of the Communist Party of China (CPC) Central Committee's development proposals made public on Tuesday.
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Nov 19, 2020 04:26
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stephenthinkpad posted:Excuse me for interrupting your regular socialism discussion
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Nov 19, 2020 05:01
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KaptainKrunk posted:China has probably closely studied East German family planning and socialized child rearing and I wouldn't be surprised to start to see programs similar roll out this decade. Is this a response to something in particular from China that you've seen
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Nov 19, 2020 05:44
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Lostconfused posted:The real world example here is Energia-Buran. It was presented as a military project, but it was far too expensive and impractical for real world military applications. It turned out to be a make work project to maintain the cooperation between space and military industrial sectors. The problem here isn't the defense spending it self. The problem was that the military industrial complex within USSR was creating it's own plans and projects without any input or direction from the central planning apparatus. The liberal reforms that GOSPLAN enacted surrendered it's ability to direct the economy which led to dysfunction within the planned economy. Because in fact the economy wasn't being properly planned anymore. I would say the Buran was more of an expection than anything and if anything seemed to have been aimed at the United States' non-existent star wars system. Basically, it was built to defeat a system that didn't exist, but that was more of an intelligence error than anything. It is speculation, I suspect its autopilot function to provide more flexibility for offensive action. Otherwise, most of Soviet arms were pretty straightforward. The Soviet needed a large conventional military because it was going against the combined arms of the West, and needed a decent sized fleet to protect its sub-launched missles. The issue is just the West had far more resources and gradually strangled them to death.
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Nov 19, 2020 05:48
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https://twitter.com/BonicMichael/status/1328956769427714050
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Nov 19, 2020 06:07
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genericnick posted:Why would you think that? Why would China look at a Soviet satellite that vanished a generation ago? Their family planning system was good and caused a noticeable bump in fertility. I'm just saying that this whole "One Child is gonna doom China!!!" is cope. If Chinese demographers think it's a problem, they'll work to fix it. The biggest impediment to women who want to have more children having more children is being unable to afford it.
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Nov 19, 2020 06:11
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KaptainKrunk posted:Their family planning system was good and caused a noticeable bump in fertility. Ah, OK. You meant something like the one in the GDR not that one in particular.
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Nov 19, 2020 06:13
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Now that FLP has added free PDFs, I'm gonna shill this for input on the China reform and socialism question: https://foreignlanguages.press/new-roads/from-victory-to-defeat-pao-yu-ching/ It's a short goon-readable book about the basic economic history of what was built in China since 1949 and what was taken away in the 70's and 80's. Doesn't purport to be neutral, so it may not be the only book on the question you want to read, but it's definitely the side of the story that no official education system cares to tell. The attitude is like in Lenin's Imperialism, digestible political polemic peppered by illustrative facts and statistics about the economy everywhere. One main task it takes is to counter the narrative that China was a drab and stagnant economy full of ultra-poor dirt farmers without serious opportunities before Deng swooped in to the rescue. And it seeks to do that with actual verifiable numbers. BTW if you ever seriously engaged e.g. the GBS China thread like I used to years ago, it can be a fun speculative exercise to pay attention to the parallels between the targets of Deng’s reforms and the negative aspects of modern Chinese culture that orientalist expats like to gawk at. uncop has issued a correction as of 07:07 on Nov 19, 2020 |
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Nov 19, 2020 06:57
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sincx has issued a correction as of 05:31 on Mar 23, 2021 |
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Nov 19, 2020 08:02
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CCP stands for Cancel Culture Party
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Nov 19, 2020 08:10
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sincx posted:https://twitter.com/iandenisjohnson/status/1329218895325003777 lol i went to a chinese maoist website recently and they had an article about how biden stole the election and an article about how trump is actually good. quote (google translated): "The " left and right " of East and West are reversed." from the article named, and I quote, (google translated): "There is no hero, so he became famous-Trump, the hero of the "mentally retarded old white, fat and ugly men"...", which is actually a pro Trump article http://redchinacn.net/portal.php?mod=view&aid=47460
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Nov 19, 2020 09:24
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woah that's very different from the other chinese maoist websites i read... which is something i do from time to time. i gotta figure out what their damage is.
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Nov 19, 2020 10:29
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BrutalistMcDonalds posted:woah that's very different from the other chinese maoist websites i read... which is something i do from time to time. i gotta figure out what their damage is. /r/stupidpol "with chinese characteristics"
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Nov 19, 2020 11:27
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Chinese liberals commenting on US politics will have the same problem as US liberals commenting on Chinese politics, everything is filtered and distorted by distance. Like I said with the HK protesters, they support Trump because they see him as the most anti-China figure. Any principles are secondary to that.
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Nov 19, 2020 12:11
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can I just say that calling your movement "Boba Tea Alliance" feels kinda off because you're identifying yourselves with conspicuous consumption
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Nov 19, 2020 12:15
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gradenko_2000 posted:can I just say that calling your movement "Boba Tea Alliance" feels kinda off because you're identifying yourselves with conspicuous consumption And the Thai movement crumbled like a cup of bubble tea unfortunately. Also I am pretty sure the bubble tea was a Taiwanese invention, do HK and Thailand have any linearage in the development of the mega bubble tea industry?
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Nov 19, 2020 13:04
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https://twitter.com/DrMarkPBarry/status/1328736116770484224
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Nov 19, 2020 13:53
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https://globalnews.ca/news/7469353/china-coronavirus-frozen-food/quote:Major food-producing countries are growing increasingly frustrated with China’s scrutiny of imported products and are calling on it to stop aggressive testing for the coronavirus, which some say is tantamount to a trade restriction.
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Nov 19, 2020 13:54
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was talking to a pal in shangahi and he says pork prices are getting pretty out of control right now where 2kg of sausages was around 25USD https://www.ft.com/content/31e88669-f6fc-4be7-b0f0-e5eb96394a1c quote:
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Nov 19, 2020 15:48
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Anime Bernie Bro posted:/r/stupidpol "with chinese characteristics" Based.
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Nov 19, 2020 16:40
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e-dt posted:"There is no hero, so he became famous-Trump, the hero of the "mentally retarded old white, fat and ugly men"...", which is actually a pro Trump article
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Nov 19, 2020 16:52
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stephenthinkpad posted:And the Thai movement crumbled like a cup of bubble tea unfortunately. Tea, well known for it's crumbling properties
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Nov 19, 2020 18:07
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Sheng-Ji Yang posted:It is not state capitalism, it is free market capitalism with slightly more (but declining) ability for state intervention than in the US. It's not declining, its increasing: https://www.economist.com/briefing/2020/08/15/xi-jinping-is-trying-to-remake-the-chinese-economy
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Nov 19, 2020 18:12
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Mantis42 posted:Even if you believe erroneously that the party has fallen to Capitalist roaders, they still administer a country where the average citizen studies Marx in school, there is no stigma surrounding Communism, and there is a real expectation of rapid material change resulting from state action. The PRC has not succumbed to Capitalist Realism, they still exist in the realm of possible politics, and when marketization eventually falters, when the rate of profit falls as it must, and China reaches it's zenith of development, it's the only society I can see escape the gravity of neoliberalism. Face it kid, all possible paths to a Socialist future lie with Chinese hegemony. Wanted to add that China is currently in a honeymoon period similar to the keynesian period in the west following WW2, where with the task of building productive capacities and rebuilding the (western bloc) world there was enough increase in profits that capitalists could allow the state / labor to take a share. When growth inevitably slowed (the larger an economy is, the harder it obviously is to grow) obviously that couldn't stand anymore without cutting into profit margins and the average rate of return, which led to all the consequent problems in the 70s. The west had two choices; socialism or neoliberalism and chose the latter. I don't know enough about the mentality of the establishment, governing cliques, and the future leadership that's being groomed in China to know which way they'll go when they'll run into the same problems. China does seem to want to follow the path of wanting to grow the per capita GDP / purchasing power of their populace and supplant the west as the world's most important consumer market. Which means higher wages relative to profits and I don't see how you do that under capitalism without the similar contradictions that led to neoliberalism, jobs flowing out of the country, and rising costs of living leading extreme debts and rent obligations placed on the population. The question is whether the CCP has studied this and sees it as something to avoid, or whether they seem themselves, personally, enriched enough by it in the short term to do it anyway.
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Nov 19, 2020 18:28
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stephenthinkpad posted:The thing about wealth disparity is that, it seems if you don't allow concentration of health and wealth disparity, you can not grow the economy. The Chinese tried it the other way during the Mao era. People didn't like to work hard if they had no way of gaining more stuff through their own hardworks. At least half of the Chinese still have memory of the other way before the market economy. You absolutely can. The soviets did it. China didn't do it because poor decisions led to them wrecking themselves during the GLF and the GPCR, and the sino-soviet split mean they were alienated from the socialist bloc. The only way to regrow the economy, gain sufficient technical knowhow, build their productive forces was to open up to western capital, which is going to make you play by their rules. stephenthinkpad posted:But what is "socialism" when people are talking about it casually? Me personally, I will settle for comprehensive and cheap health care system and lower work hour. I don't care about the wealth distribution. The world isn't static. Your lower work hours (on salary) = less profit for a capitalist. A capitalist system doesn't work for very long when labor rights are strong. That's what happened to the west. Wealth distribution also matters a lot. Real estate is a simple example. Concentrated wealth buys up more properties for themselves, raising the cost of buying your own home dramatically, and also driving rents up dramatically. More and more of your income goes to the rich and it leads to a death spiral for the economy and a worse quality of life for you. mila kunis has issued a correction as of 18:48 on Nov 19, 2020 |
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Nov 19, 2020 18:32
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mila kunis posted:You absolutely can. The soviets did it. China didn't do it because poor decisions led to them wrecking themselves during the GLF and the GPCR, and the sino-soviet split mean they were alienated from the socialist bloc. The only way to regrow the economy, gain sufficient technical knowhow, build their productive forces was to open up to western capital, which is going to make you play by their rules. Like I said earlier,, my theory about central planning is that it's a good model for a nation during a specific period, such as when an agricultural nation state (with a sophisticated bureaucracy, usually based on an old civilization) try to build out her industries. Once you build out your full array of light and heavy industries, and you start trading with the rest of the world, you have to let the market make significant decision of resource allocation and investment. There are many factors such as technology breakthrough that are not evenly spread in different industries. They are unpredictable, you can not centrally plan them. I also don't see how you can use the Soviet as a real world example to prove central planning was a good model. It obviously was not in her later stage. I can also point to India and Vietnam's economic history to show market economy is superior model.
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Nov 19, 2020 19:16
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stephenthinkpad posted:Like I said earlier,, my theory about central planning is that it's a good model for a nation during a specific period, such as when an agricultural nation state (with a sophisticated bureaucracy, usually based on an old civilization) try to build out her industries. Once you build out your full array of light and heavy industries, and you start trading with the rest of the world, you have to let the market make significant decision of resource allocation and investment. There are many factors such as technology breakthrough that are not evenly spread in different industries. They are unpredictable, you can not centrally plan them. Comparing India with the USSR pre-gorbachev may not go so well. You can also look at what happened to Russia when it fully embraced 'the market model'. e: looked it up. The USSR had the second highest gdp in the world even through the 80s in the middle of its decay. It had a higher per capita GDP in 1990 than India does today, 3 decades after the USSR died and India liberalized its economy. mila kunis has issued a correction as of 19:47 on Nov 19, 2020 |
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Nov 19, 2020 19:32
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the decline of the soviet's economy trends neatly with the increasing liberal reforms of said economy. obviously china proves this is not necessarily the case but those two states operated in very different geopolitical environments
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Nov 19, 2020 19:54
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GDP has a measurement standard only (kind of) work on sufficiently capitalist economies. All the other non capitalist models of economy have not monetized most of their national and nature resources, therefore their "GDP numbers" are undervalued. Even inside ASEAN countries right now, some of the Indochina countries have not monetized enough of their resources.
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Nov 19, 2020 20:45
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