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Americans make for fickle allies it would seem. No matter. Even if the Japanese endeavor to fight on after the Italian's inevitable surrender, they will find themselves outmatched against the full might of the French navy! Edit: Update on the previous page.
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Oct 7, 2020 17:57
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Gort posted:Weird that the tech references the Motobomba FFF - a specific type of torpedo - and not say, "Pattern-running torpedoes" or something generic like that. It does seem weird, do they later reference superior air-dropped pattern running torpedoes?
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Oct 7, 2020 18:18
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How's our own unrest looking? Those seem like some gnarly merchant losses. I would like to break Italy utterly, and drive out the fash.
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Oct 7, 2020 20:19
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Does this game take borders into account when it comes to merchant losses? We still have land borders with neutral spain, germany, etc so in theory we should have more resistance to merchant losses than countries with fewer if any land borders?
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Oct 7, 2020 20:22
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Soylent Pudding posted:Does this game take borders into account when it comes to merchant losses? We still have land borders with neutral spain, germany, etc so in theory we should have more resistance to merchant losses than countries with fewer if any land borders? iirc nations do have different tolerances for blockading/civil unrest. For example as the USA I wasn't forced to surrender until I think like 14-15. But I don't know what they all are.
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Oct 7, 2020 21:01
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Makes sense. I ask in part because this seems grognardy enough they calculate rail freight tonnage per month or whatnot.
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Oct 7, 2020 21:22
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Soylent Pudding posted:Makes sense. I ask in part because this seems grognardy enough they calculate rail freight tonnage per month or whatnot. Heh, if they did that I hope they'd take into account every time you choose the option of "invest money towards railroads" when that event pops up.
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Oct 7, 2020 21:40
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Soylent Pudding posted:Makes sense. I ask in part because this seems grognardy enough they calculate rail freight tonnage per month or whatnot. They don’t, the economic side of things is actually fairly simple. But as people said there are different tolerances for blockade among different nations. I think Britain is supposed to have the lowest tolerance for being blockaded while Russia has the highest.
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Oct 8, 2020 01:31
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Though if you're blockading goddamn Britain in Rule the Waves, something has gone extremely wrong for Britain.
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Oct 8, 2020 01:37
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Night10194 posted:Though if you're blockading goddamn Britain in Rule the Waves, something has gone extremely wrong for Britain. Britain's need to have major tonnage across the globe means they need that big a fleet to cover poo poo, so theater supremacy can happen if you're lucky.
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Oct 8, 2020 02:24
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That did happen for us a few times during the war with them; after a few of the battles where we mauled the Home Fleet we’d have local superiority for a few turns before they’d shift forces back from the Indian or Pacific areas. I didn’t feel like pointing it out at the time because it would have been flipping back and forth too much.
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Oct 8, 2020 02:32
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 APRIL 1948 In the Mediterranean, an Austrian liner hugging the coast near Albania is mistaken for one of our troop ships and torpedoed by an Italian submarine. The fallout from the loss of life (though many are able to make it to the lifeboats in time, some are still lost to the waves) pushes Austria, Germany, and the UK farther from the Italian side.  A new Italian fighter is predicted to be almost as fast as our own LeO. 157, though it’s not clear how they compare in terms of maneuverability.   MAY 1948 An attempt at forcing the Japanese troops attacking Kwang-Chow-Wan to surrender is met with fierce opposition, and several of the precious tanks being used to hold the city are cut off by flanking infantry and lost to the enemy.  A repeat of the earlier raid on Formosa is planned, to see if Japan has strengthened its preparations. This time, a group of American ships has come out of hiding in Manila Bay to join the attack.   As the ships sneak up on the Japanese-held coastline, they pick up scattered radar contacts, but it’s uncertain whether any of them correspond to warships.  If they are, they fail to stop the Franco-American squadron from approaching the target area and subjecting it to intense bombardment, setting it afire.  No Japanese force appears to stop them as they leave.  JUNE 1948 A new aircraft spotted over the South China Sea is mistaken for an Italian model at first, leading to speculation that our two foes have been sharing designs, but we soon realize that it is an indigenously made Japanese dive bomber with superlative performance.  We have studied the armor of the American-built Tourville and found it to be top-notch, but are unsure quite how it was produced. We agree to pay an extra fee in order to license American metallurgy techniques.   JULY 1948 After a change in command and the receipt of reinforcements, Japanese troops attacking the fortifications of Kwang-Chow-Wan have changed their tactics. Instead of attempting another massed charge, they are harassing the defenders with random barrages, raiding the lines at night with small groups, and moving the most intense fighting to places with worse sight-lines.  The IJN, for its part, launches its most intense attack yet.  Arrayed against them are our two cruisers assigned to this zone and a supporting group of American ships, as well as the expanded air complement of the base itself.  Aerial recon spots a pair of enemy battlecruisers to the east.  What’s more, Japanese aircraft are spotted overhead! We are out of range of attack planes from Formosa. This must be a sign that carriers are in the area. Indeed, as our light cruisers juke to evade the Japanese battlecruisers, another ship is sighted on the horizon.  Two of the Japanese CVLs are here, at least. To turn back would take our cruisers straight into the guns of the battlecruisers, so our squadron races forward and presses an attack on the carriers, scattering them. The American cruisers, though, are slightly slower than our own. They are soon coming under heavy fire from the enemy, but bravely keep up the fight.  Then, another shape is seen to the north: an even bigger carrier! This is Akagi, largest of the Japanese carriers and flagship of the IJN’s Naval Air Fleet.  With the battlecruisers still engaged to the south, the flight from them is temporarily forgotten and our cruisers dive in hungrily towards these key prizes. One light carrier is already burning, and our cruisers divide their fire between the other and the Akagi.  Once the second light carrier is afire as well, we turn all our attention onto the larger one.  As it catches flame in turn, a spread of four torpedoes races towards it. None hit, however, as the ship slows, her massive prow plowing into the waves.  Turning, we subject her to another spread. This one is more effective.  Two carriers are likely destroyed and the third is badly damaged, but the Japanese battlecruisers are returning at full steam, making a furious attempt to defend the remaining ship or get revenge.  One of the American cruisers is still with us.  As we attempt to escape, Forbin is struck in her torpedo mount! The vulnerable high-oxygen equipment for our new torpedoes erupts in a fireball, shaking the entire ship and gutting several compartments.  As the Japanese battlecruisers, superficially hurt by our smaller shells but still fully effective, approach, they cut our ships off from the sea.  The results are predictable.  Though losing two cruisers hurts, the damage is balanced out by sinking three Japanese carriers, including their flagship, taking more than a hundred planes with them. We have now cut the number of enemy submarines operating against us by at least half.  AUGUST 1948 The loss of the Akagi is a serious blow to Japanese war efforts, and in combination with an American bombing campaign that has devastated airbases and ports, notably the port cities of Takao and Kirun on Formosa, makes continued prosecution of a war in Southeast Asia difficult to maintain. The great range of the Consolidated B-32, which makes up most of the US’s long-range bomber force, allows it to reach as far as the island of Kyushu when flying from Luzon. Bombing attacks on the Home Islands, escorted by long-range fighter cover, are pressing the war home for Japan in a way that the joint Japanese-Italian submarine campaign against us has so far failed to do. Liberal elements within the Imperial government are able to frame peace negotiations as an acceptable compromise and ward off the hardliners who demand further fighting.   Both American planners and British observers--who, despite our objections, have even been allowed to tour American airbases in the Philippines to inspect their campaign--are overjoyed at what they see as confirmation of the efficacy of long-range bombing. On our part, several early copies of the Loire jet fighter are used for evaluation flights in France itself, making mock attacks on our small number of large four-engine aircraft intended to represent British heavy bombers. Our pilots are optimistic that the LeO 160 fighter would be a serious threat to a heavy bombing campaign, with its strong combination of speed and firepower. It is only one part of our multi-part, integrated air defense plans, of course. Instead of losing Formosa or the Shanghai concession, Japan is forced to pay damages for French shipping sunk and French lives lost during the war. A ceasefire is called in the ongoing fighting in China, and preparations are made for the Japanese troops attacking Kwang-Chow-Wan to be peacefully withdrawn.  The new jet fighter is ready for operational deployment too late to see any action.  Some new submarine technology also comes too late--our submarines, typically less advanced than competing designs, are still catching up to developments like the snorkel, which other countries have already been using for years.  The fleet will now go back into peacetime status. Construction work on the Ultime supercarriers, which has been taking place only on-and-off during the war, will resume once space is found in the peacetime budget. 
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Oct 28, 2020 12:08
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There will be a whole lot of movies and songs about Tage and Forbin in this timeline.
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Oct 28, 2020 12:19
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And this is why you need heavy surface elements to screen your carriers! The Japanese lost the war the moment their battlecruisers failed to protect their carriers. Also, wait, did that make peace with Italy too?
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Oct 28, 2020 21:27
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habeasdorkus posted:And this is why you need heavy surface elements to screen your carriers! The Japanese lost the war the moment their battlecruisers failed to protect their carriers. Japan had heavy surface elements and it didn't help. Though that's more a function of AI vs. Player. Though one of the fun things in this game is to play Austria Hungary and just...not bother with CVs. You have an invincible CV already! It's called Austria Hungary, and it can take another who comes into your corner of the Adriatic to a bad place. Plus, fights in the Adriatic are so cramped that catching enemy CVs with BCs or CAs is actually common. The key strategy to make God-Emperor Franz 'No Man Alive Can Stop Me' Ferdinand is to effectively hide in a closet with a shotgun. The shotgun is torpedoes and short-legged battleships.
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Oct 28, 2020 21:35
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AH is super fun to play
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Oct 28, 2020 21:58
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One game as AH we derailed the entire first generation Dreadnought race before any of them came off the slipways, by getting a naval treaty signed. The triple-turreted 12 8 inch gun 'treaty' battle-CAs of Austria Hungary ruled the waves for decades to come, and not a single one of those idiot ships died in battle despite one of them being kept around and updated into the 1950s. Those were the true heroes of Austria Hungary.
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Oct 28, 2020 22:00
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Night10194 posted:One game as AH we derailed the entire first generation Dreadnought race before any of them came off the slipways, by getting a naval treaty signed. I wish treaties were more common. Just because they lead to situations like that (and make CAs have a purpose)
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Oct 29, 2020 10:14
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That is certainly a spectacular way to end a war! The enemy flagship comes out of hiding to lead an invasion aiming to finish off a beleaguered fortress on the other side of the world and a relief force of nothing but a multinational flotilla of wildly outmatched light cruisers is there to stop it, even at the cost of ¾ths their own number, with their sacrifice being what wins the war.
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Oct 29, 2020 12:19
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habeasdorkus posted:And this is why you need heavy surface elements to screen your carriers! The Japanese lost the war the moment their battlecruisers failed to protect their carriers. Italy, it seems, was playing second fiddle in that arrangement, and was unwilling to continue the war without its ally dividing our attention. However, blame for the initiation of hostilities was mostly shifted to Japan, and the bulk of the postwar reparations will be Japan's responsibility. The game didn't even give me the option to take something from Italy (not that I could have, Sicily is worth far too much) so I'm unclear on whether we get extra economic points from Italy as well as Japan
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Oct 29, 2020 15:12
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Truly, elan has won the day!
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Oct 29, 2020 22:33
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The most wild thing of this LP is that Austria-Hungary still exists in the year *checks date* 1948. 
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Oct 29, 2020 23:53
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Veloxyll posted:I wish treaties were more common. Just because they lead to situations like that (and make CAs have a purpose) Well, as I recall, heavy cruisers as a role mostly were created as a result of the treaties and found a fortuitous role as heavy surface combatants that could tag along CV groups more or less by accident of history, or something like that.
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Oct 30, 2020 02:06
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That's pretty much it. The British hated 8" cruisers because they had to build some to match, which reduced the number of hulls they could build for trade protection. In my games I see a lot of 9 and 10" heavy cruisers with about 5" belt and turret armor. Depending on the BC situation they can be supremely useful warships, or easy prestige for the other navy.
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Oct 30, 2020 17:29
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I generally find that the key to CAs is how many guns they have. 8 inch guns are usually very good at killing CLs and other CAs and aren't that heavy so it's not so hard to get 12+ guns on. The Warkbotes and their heroic service to Austria Hungary proved this.
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Oct 30, 2020 17:46
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Night10194 posted:Though one of the fun things in this game is to play Austria Hungary and just...not bother with CVs. You have an invincible CV already! It's called Austria Hungary, and it can take another who comes into your corner of the Adriatic to a bad place. I always have absolutely awful experience with land-based aircraft. Not being able to give them orders, they seem to just send out scouts which can be useful, but they rarely make meaningful anti-shipping strikes. For goodness' sake, I gave you 20 dive bombers, 20 torpedo bombers and 10 fighters for escorts, use them! Meanwhile enemy airbases will send constant air attacks on my ships who are unable to ward them off. The opacity of information makes it feel very much like the AI cheats.
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Oct 30, 2020 18:48
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Shoeless posted:I always have absolutely awful experience with land-based aircraft. Not being able to give them orders, they seem to just send out scouts which can be useful, but they rarely make meaningful anti-shipping strikes. For goodness' sake, I gave you 20 dive bombers, 20 torpedo bombers and 10 fighters for escorts, use them! Meanwhile enemy airbases will send constant air attacks on my ships who are unable to ward them off. The opacity of information makes it feel very much like the AI cheats. In my experience the big thing Land Based air suffers from is that it falls off a lot when AA and CAP gets better, because it can't/won't coordinate large strikes that might puncture serious air defenses. Similarly if you get a game where the whole world decides to build heavily armored flight decks, sinking enemy CVs is a goddamn nightmare. Because eventually torpedo bombers just become too vulnerable to use so if your dive bombers can't finish people off air is going to have problems getting kills.
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Oct 30, 2020 18:52
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Night10194 posted:Similarly if you get a game where the whole world decides to build heavily armored flight decks, sinking enemy CVs is a goddamn nightmare. Because eventually torpedo bombers just become too vulnerable to use And thus we return to the brilliant idea of the four-engined super-torpedo bomber, capable of dropping a full spread of 4 torpedoes and with armor enough to laugh off AA fire :V
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Oct 30, 2020 19:26
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Danann posted:The most wild thing of this LP is that Austria-Hungary still exists in the year *checks date* 1948. in this timeline Franz lives and his vaguely federalist reforms pass and AH is a beautiful federal constitutional monarchy or some other Gay Black Hitlerian nonsense
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Oct 30, 2020 19:26
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Shoeless posted:And thus we return to the brilliant idea of the four-engined super-torpedo bomber, capable of dropping a full spread of 4 torpedoes and with armor enough to laugh off AA fire :V get in close and use the 10" guns that we've mounted on carriers
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Oct 30, 2020 19:27
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Shoeless posted:And thus we return to the brilliant idea of the four-engined super-torpedo bomber, capable of dropping a full spread of 4 torpedoes and with armor enough to laugh off AA fire :V You can eventually get Anti-Ship missiles for medium bombers in the 50s.
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Oct 30, 2020 19:27
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Night10194 posted:You can eventually get Anti-Ship missiles for medium bombers in the 50s. I know, the AI seems to refuse to use them and instead loads normal bombs. I've never once seen my airbases use them even after they've been developed and it's very frustrating. Another reason the lack of ability to command airbases annoys me.
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Oct 30, 2020 19:43
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This is update 60. My estimate of how long this would take was off when I started this LP; I did not expect us to hit 60 updates. SEPTEMBER 1948 Potoo Rufous goes into the docks for a short refit, after which she will likely be resigned to the mothball fleet. The ship gave good service during the war (mostly on antisubmarine patrol) but has been replaced in the frontline by our newer carriers. News of postwar fleet drawdowns and prisoner exchanges shares space in the papers with economic developments and a growing undercurrent of dissatisfaction in the greater part of the world: namely, the part that falls under the domination of other powers. The greatest powers of the globe fly their flags in every corner of it, having carved out spheres in which their interests reign supreme. The future of this situation is now in serious doubt. Empires require significant investments of men, money, and time to maintain. They compete for attention and resources with investments at home. And at the present time, the native peoples of the colonies are increasingly resistant to foreign control. Modern empires are founded on denying that the subjects of colonial domination have the ability to govern themselves (having already attempted to make sure that they do not). But it has also been necessary to create and nurture a middle class of native subjects capable of assisting the administration of their own land. The first place where cracks appear is Kenya. Long part of the British Empire, it leaves without needing to fire a shot--though the threat of a protracted insurgency was certainly one way the native Kenyans brought Britain to the table and secured independence and self-government.  New to RtWII, compared to RtW, is decolonization, which starts sometime in the appropriate postwar era. The picture is from India rather than Kenya, but you get the idea. In the wake of this event, our own government is rushing to make sure we have sufficient military forces stationed abroad to quiet any discontent. The war disrupted our deployments, and we are only just now resuming them.  OCTOBER 1948 Many of our destroyers are also due for refits around this time. NOVEMBER 1948 Germany is expanding its cruiser fleet.  DECEMBER 1948 Our new dive-bomber models, with greater range and defensive firepower than ever, are ready. Prospects and ideas for jet-powered dive bombers have proliferated since our jet fighters entered service, but as yet the demands of a dive bombing mission interfere too much with those of jet propulsion.  JANUARY 1949 Due to wartime slowdowns, the progress of the two newer carriers was uneven, and the second hull to be laid down is completed first. She is provisionally named Bearn while awaiting an official name, and joins the fleet as our newest carrier.  It may be prudent to dispose of some of our oldest ships at this time, despite the long service they have given us. Fantôme is the logical first choice, given her age. The older destroyers are still useful for antisubmarine work, and the cruiser Normandie is still puttering around the South Pacific almost thirty years after leaving the docks.  Using the money freed from the budget after Bearn’s completion, another heavy cruiser is ordered to replace the Bouclier, destroyed fighting against Japan. Montcalm is a close sister, albeit with the potentially key upgrade of an autoloading system for her 203mm main guns.  Britain is beset by further colonial problems. Now it is the Falkland Islands asking for more autonomy, despite the nearby threat of Argentina, which still claims them for itself.  FEBRUARY 1949 Adaptation and training work for the conversion of carrier squadrons to jet aircraft continues. Bataleur’s fighter squadrons have been practicing dangerous, tricky takeoffs and landings.  MARCH 1949 Some of the minesweeping corvettes ordered under the wartime naval package are ready, though they will go straight into mothballs now.  APRIL 1949 The new carrier finishes her working-up period and will receive a provisional airgroup.  Even with several carriers in reserve or mothballs, adding another to the ranks is taxing for our aviation training establishment. Under peacetime conditions we will not be able to keep the carriers fully supplied with pilots simply because the standards for carrier pilots are higher, and we would run short of qualified pilots before filling every airgroup. MAY 1949 With more experience, we refine autoloader designs.   JUNE 1949 Some would see a rapprochement with Japan, but the insult of the last war is still too fresh. Besides, the Japanese navy is hardly comparable to our own anyway.  JULY 1949 The newest American cruiser, New York, has eight medium-caliber guns and a curious arrangement of four single torpedo launchers.  AUGUST 1949 It would be beyond us to afford this offer, and besides, it is questionable whether we would want to build a warship using such guns.  SEPTEMBER 1949 Despite the best efforts of maintenance units to adapt to the new aircraft and the cutting-edge engines it uses, our newest fighter requires long hours of obnoxious work between each flight. The factory promises that a redesigned engine will be both higher-performing and easier to repair.  OCTOBER 1949 The production update to the LeO. 160 jet fighter does not solve its reliability problems, but the new engines are both more powerful and more fuel-efficient.  NOVEMBER 1949 The insurgency in the Falkland Islands was never an intense affair. Instead of ambush attacks on British patrols, much of the warfare was psychological. Once popular opinion turned against the British garrison, it began to feel even more isolated than ever. While civilian leaders negotiated for British withdrawal, the morale of the soldiers fell sharply. It must come as a relief to them to hear that they are headed home, though it now leaves the future of the islands in some doubt.  DECEMBER 1949 We will have new medium bombers with even greater range and payload.  JANUARY 1950 Society is changing at home as well as abroad. Over the years, our strong economy has produced a large, healthy middle class. This is good from many perspectives, but it means that many goods have become more expensive, and that military salaries must increase in peacetime to keep good sailors and officers within the ranks. 
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Nov 19, 2020 16:10
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Ah, autoloaders. Always appearing a little too late to make a lot of difference, but I love them anyway. And yeah, we don't have the budget or docks for 18 inch monstrosities, sadly. Normally I like to build one last stupid as gently caress BB or BC design, deemed a 'hubris palace', in the very late game just because. Like a BC with 12 19 inch qual 0 guns. Though we might consider a 'super-cruiser'. Alaska-style cruiser-killer BCs with modest armor and 12 inch Qual 1 cannons can get a lot of work done in the 40s/50s, when you have the machinery to make one at like 20000 tons and everyone starts to build a ton of CAs as CV escorts.
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Nov 19, 2020 16:27
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I was thinking of 40+ knot destroyers for carrier hunting myself.
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Nov 19, 2020 21:07
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You really can't hunt a CV with DDs because you'd need to be able to directly control them, and that doesn't happen much. Trying to hunt down a CV is usually something that happens in the Med, especially the Adriatic, and is usually done by BCs or CAs. Also it's insanely hard to get a DD to 40+ knots in this game's engine.
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Nov 19, 2020 21:15
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Things are winding down.. time to start thinking about which ships are getting scrapped/turned into museums and which are we saving to do an insane conversion on in the 80s.
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Nov 19, 2020 21:45
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This has been amazing. Vive le France ! Vive le Pirate Radar !
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Nov 19, 2020 22:28
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I wish I could play in a game that actually gets missiles, but the game only ever seems to give you SAM tech at that with the missile update. Mind you SAMs are incredible. CLAAs with a pair of SAM launchers and a bunch of radar guided 5 inchers assigned to carrier escort (and the AI regularly does this) are murder on toast against enemy bombers in support of CAP.
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Nov 19, 2020 22:34
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This has, it is true, been a ride.
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Nov 30, 2020 21:36
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