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theironjef posted:Weasel. gently caress TJ Miller. Underwater is pretty good, plus he has a really brutal death scene. It's great. Arist posted:They're, uh, moving ahead with filming on that Black Panther sequel pretty quickly: Yea, they're kind of damned if they do, damned if they don't because there are a decent number of people who will only accept Shuri becoming Black Panther and anything less is literally the worst thing ever.
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Nov 21, 2020 00:53
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The character's too important to too many people not to recast. If you want to hotshot Shuri, no problem. But you can't kill T'Challa off-screen.
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Nov 21, 2020 00:56
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Cast Sean Bean, kill him off five minutes in. (Disclaimer: don't actually do this)
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Nov 21, 2020 01:02
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Aphrodite posted:The character's too important to too many people not to recast.  Agreed. Even if you don't want to kill him and let him just hand the title/throne off, have the stones to recast and give T'Challa a proper send-off.
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Nov 21, 2020 15:27
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It's one of those damned if you do damned if you don't situations. The only thing that's safe to say is that they shouldn't go the Disney route of CGI-ing Boseman a la Leia or Tarking, even if it's just as a send off.
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Nov 21, 2020 17:58
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McCloud posted:It's one of those damned if you do damned if you don't situations. I think they've announced they're not gonna do that, thank God.
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Nov 21, 2020 18:01
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Recasting T'challa to do a sendoff seems pretty gross to be honest. Either recast the actor or don't but don't hire someone to be a standin so you can kill off/write out the character. That is lovely to everyone involved.
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Nov 21, 2020 18:07
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Madkal posted:This has me thinking (and I guess side warning as this will go to some Star Wars and Marvel stuff too) but with these big tent pole movies that are supposed to launch a thousand sequels and whatnot is there any thought process into the long game as far as story is concerned. No one stopped to think we should probably get a rough throughline for the characters and get their basic story done after JJ got his claws into it, and, well... yeah. I mean it's absolutely bonkers to remember how exciting TFA felt and how much of a wet thud Skywalker was because JJ just ignored TLJ. And part of it is, does it matter? They'll make 800million anyway. Why bother with all that work that can get leaked and ruin things. BvS/JL actually do have some planning and poo poo. Aside from BvS spiraling out of the Metropolis Massacre, JL was supposed to build to Darkseid discovering that a crucial part of the Anti-Life equation was found in the Codex that Superman carries in his DNA from MoS. JL was supposed to play off this Wounded King thing where Batman, spurred by Superman's sacrifice, gathers everyone and eventually sacrifices himself in the final film having resurrected Clark, inspired unity in the rest of the team, etc
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Nov 21, 2020 18:52
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FilthyImp posted:BvS/JL actually do have some planning and poo poo. Aside from BvS spiraling out of the Metropolis Massacre, JL was supposed to build to Darkseid discovering that a crucial part of the Anti-Life equation was found in the Codex that Superman carries in his DNA from MoS. JL was supposed to play off this Wounded King thing where Batman, spurred by Superman's sacrifice, gathers everyone and eventually sacrifices himself in the final film having resurrected Clark, inspired unity in the rest of the team, etc And what was the follow-up plan to this? Because obviously that would never stick.
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Nov 21, 2020 18:53
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Just have a stunt guy with the mask on if a send off is all you're doing
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Nov 21, 2020 18:54
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Aphrodite posted:And what was the follow-up plan to this? Because obviously that would never stick. Knowing that Darkseid is out there, JL2 picks up with Bats proposing a Unilateral Preemptive Strike against Darkseid, which proves a disaster. The League is stuck off world while Darkseid attacks earth. They return to find a transformed Knightmare Earth. Billions are dead. Lois Lane among them, causing Superman to fall to Anti-Life. Darkseid extracts the Codex from his body, spreading Anti-Life across the cosmos. Flash, Batman, and the remains of Cyborg travel back to JL-time to issue a warning about the failed attack, but Flash is caught between time and torn apart. The past league remain on Earth, fending off Darkseid. Batman sacrifices himself to (protect Lois, I think) and (destroys Darkseid with a God Killer bullet?). Batman is mourned as a hero.
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Nov 21, 2020 19:07
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It's weird that for as crazy as all the is there's not a single original idea in it. It's just like they threw Injustice and Final Crisis and Infinite Crisis and a few other things in a blender.
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Nov 21, 2020 20:35
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The irony that Endgame and JL2+3 would have relied on Time Travel to fix everything is not lost on me. "No but you see JL Time Travel is logically consistent whereas Endgame creates Existential Rape Hell"
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Nov 21, 2020 21:35
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Having to travel back in time twice to prevent two different disasters seems a pretty silly. It makes it seem like these people just cannot do their jobs right. (Yes, that's the part I'm having problems with.  )
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Nov 21, 2020 21:37
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The Endgame time travel is bullshit. They literally lay out the rules, then ignore them 70 minutes later.
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Nov 21, 2020 21:38
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It was kinda neat when Flash did that in the TV show, but I feel like it would be a hokey in a film. What are Diana and Aquaman doing?
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Nov 21, 2020 21:44
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John David Washington was badass and had a great screen presence in Tenet, I could see Marvel asking him if he'd like to take on the mantle of the Black Panther.
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Nov 21, 2020 22:06
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You could not write your own story. Where did that bring you? Back to time travel.
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Nov 21, 2020 22:22
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If I had total control of the production I would probably try to get John Boyega. e: Let me clarify -- I mean that Disney should crawl on their knees and grovel to him for a chance to save face. BrianWilly fucked around with this message at 23:01 on Nov 21, 2020 |
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Nov 21, 2020 22:27
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Get Michael B Jordan back.
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Nov 21, 2020 22:29
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BrianWilly posted:Having to travel back in time twice to prevent two different disasters seems a pretty silly. It makes it seem like these people just cannot do their jobs right. That's how BTTF 2 works isn't it?
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Nov 21, 2020 22:40
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Aphrodite posted:The Endgame time travel is bullshit. They literally lay out the rules, then ignore them 70 minutes later. How? It's DBZ rules and remains consistently that throughout. They're not even really time traveling they're universe jumping.
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Nov 21, 2020 22:40
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Vince MechMahon posted:How? It's DBZ rules and remains consistently that throughout. They're not even really time traveling they're universe jumping. Everything is fine at the end until Cap time travels and then they decide gently caress the rules to give his little bench moment. It's canon that Cap, somehow, returned to the MCU timeline in the past and became Peggy's husband.
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Nov 21, 2020 22:41
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SlimGoodbody posted:John David Washington was badass and had a great screen presence in Tenet, I could see Marvel asking him if he'd like to take on the mantle of the Black Panther. I would rather he get his own thing because anyone who tries to replace Boseman is just going to be in for a rough time.
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Nov 21, 2020 22:44
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Aphrodite posted:Everything is fine at the end until Cap time travels and then they decide gently caress the rules to give his little bench moment. It's canon that Cap, somehow, returned to the MCU timeline in the past and became Peggy's husband. If it's not in a movie it's not canon. Doubly so when the writers and director's give contradictory answers when asked about it. So no. It doesn't break the rules in the movie itself.
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Nov 21, 2020 22:52
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The rules of Time Travel can and always should be "who the gently caress cares." If they establish rules and later break them in interest of a character moment then so be it. Time travel makes zero sense regardless of how much logic you try to use unless you evoke the idea of some omnipotent force trying to correct to a 'right' timeline or whatever. As long as it works for the tone of the movie then that's fine. Trying to go "well THIS time travel is bad because heh they break the rules" ignores that pretty much every single time travel movie does that because time travel exists as a thematic element, not a realistic one. Even if you're going as in-depth need-a-flowchart as possible you're still going to want to put drama above realism which is why time travel doesn't leave you in the middle of space or cause surprising numbers of people to disappear or change entirely because your slight shift in reality caused their parents to miss meeting or whatever. If time travel is used to an unsatisfying thematic end then it sucks no matter how logical it is, and if it's used well then it doesn't matter in the slightest despite the pure insanity it would take for it to remotely make sense that you slowly vanish in the order you were born for some reason.
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Nov 21, 2020 22:56
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ImpAtom posted:The rules of Time Travel can and always should be "who the gently caress cares." If they establish rules and later break them in interest of a character moment then so be it. Time travel makes zero sense regardless of how much logic you try to use unless you evoke the idea of some omnipotent force trying to correct to a 'right' timeline or whatever. This. If you want a super realistic movie about time travel you end up with Primer where you're spending more time looking at flow charts after the movie than giving a poo poo about the confusing mess of a movie in the first place.
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Nov 21, 2020 23:00
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Endgame isn't trying to be like a Steins;Gate situation where the rules of time travel get exhaustively covered and inconsistencies explained (though even in SG there's at least a few small funny details that get glossed over for the sake of the story). And even in the type of story where the rules are extremely important, they still only exist to justify the story, by which I mean the rules are only important to the extent that they create obstacles for the heroes to overcome. Cap coming back at the end of Endgame isn't really a problem because it doesn't directly break the story (if you can come up with any justification in your head that makes any sense whatsoever it's fine, that's what happened) and because the actual purpose is the character moment.
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Nov 21, 2020 23:11
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Looper is the best way to do itquote:I don't want to talk about time travel because if we start talking about it then we're going to be here all day talking about it, making diagrams with straws.
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Nov 21, 2020 23:13
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Looper is actually a really great example because the "rules" are actively nonsense and the movie understands this. The point isn't the rules, it's the drama.
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Nov 21, 2020 23:14
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At the same time, saying "these are the rules" and then immediately break them is pretty drat dumb. Either give yourself leeway or just don't blatantly break the clear rules you set out. Or better yet, don't bother with time travel. As Barry Allen can attest to, nothing good comes out of it
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Nov 22, 2020 00:09
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McCloud posted:At the same time, saying "these are the rules" and then immediately break them is pretty drat dumb. Either give yourself leeway or just don't blatantly break the clear rules you set out. Or better yet, don't bother with time travel. As Barry Allen can attest to, nothing good comes out of it I mean Endgame does that by making it clear that this is a bunch of people frantically trying to figure out how to even make it work and everything we hear is their best guesses. It also has godlike magical items that can do anything which are last seen in the hand of the person who breaks the rules and one of which is explicitly based around Time. Hell, Dr. Strange uses that exact same widget to see one successful outcome that explicitly involves using time/dimension travel to make it a success so who the hell knows. Time Travel probably should be avoided but it is also a tremendously thematic and often relevant thing to include even in places where it doesn't necessarily hold together because the idea of "I can go back and correct a mistake" is so ingrained into the human psyche that if you gave any of us a time travel machine we'd probably go right ahead and use it to try to stop something terrible despite decades of poo poo driving it into our head that we don't have the ability or knowledge to actually understand the consequences of doing that. But throwing away rules without caring that you're throwing away rules is entirely fine in themes of a story. Hell Terminator 2 flat-out openly defies the idea that time travel is predestined which is literally the big reveal of the first movie. Back to the Future's Time Travel rules amount to 'lol, whatever' and require you to accept the absurdly creepy idea that Marty McFly erased and replaced a version of himself from existence and Doc Brown lived a creepy false life where he pretended to befriend a completely different Marty McFly knowing that he'd be erased from existence when the Marty he liked came around or otherwise rendered nonexistent. Star Trek breaks its own time travel rules whenever the gently caress it feels like which is why you somehow have alternate universes time travel existing in the same series as "going to the past changes the future" time travel. Besides we all know the only accurate depiction of time travel is Timecop with a close runner up being Evil Dead 2/Army of Darkness.
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Nov 22, 2020 00:34
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Maybe they'll pull the other Leia trick. After all, Boseman was in four movies as T'Challa, there might be enough footage to just build around unused shots of him with some creative ADR and writing.
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Nov 22, 2020 00:39
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theironjef posted:Maybe they'll pull the other Leia trick. After all, Boseman was in four movies as T'Challa, there might be enough footage to just build around unused shots of him with some creative ADR and writing. 
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Nov 22, 2020 00:44
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The reason Endgame's sucks is because time travel is the shittiest cop out of all cop outs. And they know it, so the movie firmly lays down the rules so that time travel doesn't just become the lazy solution to every future situation. They even have it explained by the dumbest guy in the room, so it seems like they really know their stuff. Then it breaks them anyway. You can't do the "don't loving worry about it" after you have a scene where you loving worry about it. That's just dumb. It's fine. It doesn't ruin the movie. The implications of what Cap did are kind of creepy, but whatever. After 12 years of setup the solution is loving time travel though? At least they didn't time travel twice in Avengers, I guess. theironjef posted:Maybe they'll pull the other Leia trick. After all, Boseman was in four movies as T'Challa, there might be enough footage to just build around unused shots of him with some creative ADR and writing. I think they've already said that won't happen. I don't know if it was an actual official statement or anything but that came out not long after his death.
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Nov 22, 2020 00:59
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BrianWilly posted:Having to travel back in time twice to prevent two different disasters seems a pretty silly. It makes it seem like these people just cannot do their jobs right. Funnily enough isn't that the original planned story for the Christopher Reeve's Superman movie?
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Nov 22, 2020 01:05
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Aphrodite posted:You can't do the "don't loving worry about it" after you have a scene where you loving worry about it. That's just dumb. Back to the Future literally has multiple scenes of people Worrying About It. It is quite literally a joke at the end where Doc has the bulletproof vest and reveals his solution to worries about loving with space-time was "Ah, gently caress it."
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Nov 22, 2020 01:15
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The Treehouse of Horror where Homer travels back in time because of his toaster is the best representative of time travel committed to (small) screen
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Nov 22, 2020 01:24
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Time travel can't exist because time doesn't exist it's just a limitation of how we view things.
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Nov 22, 2020 01:35
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The Question IRL posted:Funnily enough isn't that the original planned story for the Christopher Reeve's Superman movie? The original plan, since they were filming 1 & 2 simultaneously, was for Superman to catch up with both nukes in Superman 1, and throw them into space, where they'd detonate and release the Phantom Zone villains. Then in 2 he'd do the flying around Earth, turning back time, to prevent them from being unleashed. When production started to fall behind, the producers made Donner focus solely on the first one, and he felt the new ending was more dramatic.
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Nov 22, 2020 01:40
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