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Fresh file speed running is interesting, can confirm, but it’s not really mass appeal. Let’s not get wrapped up in e honor or w/e. Enjoy your hadesgame.
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Nov 23, 2020 02:09
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BizarroAzrael posted:I know on a run you get bonds from 4 gods + Hermes, but those 4 aren't set until you've accepted boo s from each of them right? So depending on how you get railroaded early on you can pass on certain ones in the hope of one better for your build later, right? yes, just seeing a god as an option doesn't set them in your run, you have to actually get a boon from them for it to count
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Nov 23, 2020 02:25
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I got my first win at 26 after a series of close wipes on Hades. I struggled to get clears (like 1 in 6) until #51 when something suddenly clicked and now regardless of weapon or aspect I now usually kill Hades without any deaths on him at ever-increasing heats (also helps that I stopped trying to play after I had been drinking). Aspect of Chiron bow is easy mode and you should use it if you're struggling to get your first win, even with 0 or 1 upgrades into it. Mirror thoughts: Teaching yourself to use your cast on bosses for Boiling Blood (+50% damage as long as they have a gem in them) will make a big difference. Privileged Status is generally be better than Family Favorite but restricts your god choices somewhat. I recommend taking Stygian Soul over Infernal Soul at first because it's one less thing to do, although actually seeing the gems on the ground that you pick up may also help you remember to use it. Stubborn Defiance is better than it sounds; if you are low on health and didn't die in that room, you can let the last enemy kill you and heal up a bit before the next room and Stubborn Defiance guarantees you enter Hades with at least one revive (+probably another from Skelly trinket). The second dash from Greater Reflex makes it much easier to dodge some boss attacks and I would pick it until you have Fated Persuasion to maximize odds of getting extra dashes from Hermes.
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Nov 23, 2020 02:33
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Is there a "recommended order" for spending Titan's Blood? I know a lot of the answer is going to be "use it on the weapon/power you like" but like are there any upgrades that are objectively "the good ones/best value"?
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Nov 23, 2020 03:02
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Mordiceius posted:Is there a "recommended order" for spending Titan's Blood? I know a lot of the answer is going to be "use it on the weapon/power you like" but like are there any upgrades that are objectively "the good ones/best value"? fool of sound posted:As for early aspect unlocks: I recommend Nemesis Sword, Hades Spear, and Hera Bow. They're a substantial upgrade even with only the first level purchased. But outside of that you should upgrade weapons you feel enjoy and feel comfortable with. Almost all the aspects are good to great.
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Nov 23, 2020 03:05
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Mordiceius posted:I think it’s about time for me to turn on God Mode. I’ve done about 20 runs, made it to the final boss three times and his second form once. But I’m just slow at action games and terrible at dodging. 20 attempts isn't bad, don't worry too much about it. It doesn't take too long to go from "can't beat 3rd boss" to "can beat 3rd boss but it takes all my death defiance" to "can beat them without dying most of the time". I want to say the average to actually beat Hades is like 50 runs or something? I think I read that somewhere. edit: getting the third death defiance should make it a bit smoother. A Moose fucked around with this message at 03:16 on Nov 23, 2020 |
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Nov 23, 2020 03:13
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Kawabata posted:No I totally get that and I only have 21 attempts (many of those loving around a lot) but the thing is when I die I don't get why I die 50% of the times. Like for example I can dodge through the minotaur moves every time but as soon as I get close to Theseus he starts doing some weird insta-spinny poo poo I can't time and die in like 3 hits. This is actually incredibly normal. I didn't get a clear until I was on run 30-something and even then I credit it to an extremely luck Styx run because I am bad at games. The game basically progressed for me in this order: Run 1-10: Oh poo poo death defiance is amazing, if I can unlock it maybe I can actually clear Meg. Run 11-15: This hyrda is bullshit. Run 16: This hydra is easy. Run 17-21: The witches circle is bullshit. Run 22: Okay I think I get Elysium. Run 23: I do not get Elysium. Run 24: TWO BOSSES?! Run 25-30: This is bullshit, this is impossible. Run 31: Oh. Run 32-35: AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH Run 36: Did I do it?!
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Nov 23, 2020 03:18
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Also if you can reliably get to Hades when you reach Styx, the acorn is way better than the tooth and probably the best defensive item for that fight. Even when it only stops 3 hits, thats 120+ damage prevented (with the caveat that you arent getting hit by the summons)
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Nov 23, 2020 03:22
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Gay Rat Wedding posted:yes, just seeing a god as an option doesn't set them in your run, you have to actually get a boon from them for it to count are you sure about that? i swear i tried ignoring gods i didn't want but they'd keep showing up, and i don't recall ever seeing a god disappear from the pool for a run
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Nov 23, 2020 03:36
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Wafflecopper posted:are you sure about that? i swear i tried ignoring gods i didn't want but they'd keep showing up, and i don't recall ever seeing a god disappear from the pool for a run Afaict you equip an olympian keepsake in asphodel/elysium for a god that isn't already in your pool, it will kick a god you don't have boons from out of your pool and replace them.
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Nov 23, 2020 03:40
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Wafflecopper posted:are you sure about that? i swear i tried ignoring gods i didn't want but they'd keep showing up, and i don't recall ever seeing a god disappear from the pool for a run I can confirm this. I've been trying to get my last five DUO boons knocked off my list, and if a particular god shows up and I avoid their path (or re-roll it), then eventually they'll stop showing up if a take a boon from whomever showed up in their place. Swapping out your keepsake in between bosses can also help with this.
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Nov 23, 2020 03:42
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Kawabata posted:No I totally get that and I only have 21 attempts (many of those loving around a lot) but the thing is when I die I don't get why I die 50% of the times. Like for example I can dodge through the minotaur moves every time but as soon as I get close to Theseus he starts doing some weird insta-spinny poo poo I can't time and die in like 3 hits. Theseus has really predictable mid-range behaviour. He does a long charge up to throw his spear, you know he's doing it because a purple target appears over your body with plenty of time to hide behind something, and after he throws it he turns around and walks away for a couple seconds leaving a big opening for you to wail on him before dashing away again. Repeat for an easy win. If he ever does the spinny dash thing you're taking the dangerous path instead of the safe one, and you really don't need to. EricFate posted:You, at least, figured out that things on the mirror have a second option if you toggle using the button to the left. I'm on hour 79 and I just realized that about 10 minutes ago. Mordiceius posted:I do feel like some mechanics are just never explained and they expect you to stumble upon them. Also, I feel like I sometimes just straight up don’t know if an offered boon is actually good or not. Some things are definitely not explained that should be. (It took me FOREVER to figure out some of the visual indicators for various conditions/states, and I only today on my 80th or so run figured out the blue aura is hydraulic might, and fishing mechanics are never explained sufficiently) But the mirror alternate options is not one of those things. Nyx explicitly tells you about them, which is what unlocks them, and there's a fate list entry that tells you to use them in case you somehow missed it before. Control Volume posted:Also if you can reliably get to Hades when you reach Styx, the acorn is way better than the tooth and probably the best defensive item for that fight. Even when it only stops 3 hits, thats 120+ damage prevented (with the caveat that you arent getting hit by the summons) Best boss item is, imo, the spear point. GlyphGryph fucked around with this message at 04:08 on Nov 23, 2020 |
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Nov 23, 2020 04:00
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I desperately want them to do DLC that's just a boss rush against the olympian gods. Or give me a mode that I can keep my gear after beating Hades for at long as I can last without dying. Sometimes I get such good synergy on my boons that I would love to see how maxed out I can get, but then the game's over too soon. Bottom line, please give me more Hades content to play, Supergiant!
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Nov 23, 2020 04:08
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Gay Rat Wedding posted:I got it with these. gently caress forced overtime and tight deadline. Similar build and options just got me my first 32 heat but with FO1 and just one point in Tight Deadline which doesn't even feel like real time pressure I could ease up a bit elsewhere. Just dashing everywhere holding attack the entire run was effective but pretty boring. Probably play some of the wonkier aspects at lower heat for a while. 
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Nov 23, 2020 04:17
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As my daughter said while watching me play earlier, "Daddy, let's go visit Aphdodite! I like her, she's so pretty and pink!" (oops, just noticed I included a hangover boon in that one) Just look at all these duo boons:  This build really made me wish for an endless mode.
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Nov 23, 2020 07:37
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GlyphGryph posted:But the mirror alternate options is not one of those things. Nyx explicitly tells you about them, which is what unlocks them, and there's a fate list entry that tells you to use them in case you somehow missed it before. Except if the dialogue never comes up. I knew about the alternative options but I thought I had to wait for her to mention them to unlock, so I never paid attention to the buttons on the side of the mirror talents. In fact I didn't know how to access them until today when I read the post a little earlier about the button.
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Nov 23, 2020 07:40
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B33rChiller posted:As my daughter said while watching me play earlier, "Daddy, let's go visit Aphdodite! I like her, she's so pretty and pink!" Is that a typo, or did your daughter actually pronounce it "Aphdodite" because if so that's even cuter 
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Nov 23, 2020 08:22
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I had the same thing with weapon aspects for the longest time. I had no idea how to access the place to change them. Guess I missed the dialog. Something that I think has been missed in the discussion is learning the audio clues and tells for enemy actions. If you really want to be the most situationally aware, use headphones and turn down/off the music. The game has a busy soundscape, and eliminating the music can allow you to hear the hints that you might not be able to see. To people having trouble, or starting out in general, Practicing a lot will give you dividends. If you're getting frustrated, just accept that whatever point you reached is the limit of what you can do for now. Through repeated exposure, the cacophonous nature will become less busy, and you will be better able to make better sense of what is going on in game. Another product of repeated runs is an accumulation of resources which can be used to buff you up more and more. Patience and acceptance that you will die many more times. Don't feel bad, keep building up. You're likely doing better than I did at your point in the game. Sometimes it takes a lot of chipping away until you break down the wall holding you back. Here's my record from my first clear (run 65)  And the record of my most recent (61st) clear at run 200  Wafflecopper posted:Is that a typo, or did your daughter actually pronounce it "Aphdodite" because if so that's even cuter
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Nov 23, 2020 08:39
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The soundtrack slaps though. If you're having a hard time just run god mode and enjoy yourself. It's a single player game who cares about some e-bushido bullshit. It'll click eventually and if not just keep it on and have fun.
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Nov 23, 2020 09:04
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On a related note, I'm basically "dog in front of computer meme" when I'm choosing boons. I roughly understand what they do and I try to amass boons from the same god on the same move if I can but that's about it. Actually I stop doing it when it's getting to lvl 3-4 whenever each increment seems to be too low. It's a bit perplexing that I can't actually see numbers like in Isaac (mod, but still). Is there a boon tier list somewhere by the way?
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Nov 23, 2020 13:12
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Boon synergy is the kind of thing that just comes to you as you play and experiment. IMO that's part of the progress experience.
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Nov 23, 2020 13:31
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Kawabata posted:On a related note, I'm basically "dog in front of computer meme" when I'm choosing boons. I roughly understand what they do and I try to amass boons from the same god on the same move if I can but that's about it. Actually I stop doing it when it's getting to lvl 3-4 whenever each increment seems to be too low. Honestly I can't think of too many trap boons and most synergies are really easy to grasp. There are a few hammers that feel very underwhelming or sometimes like a straight downgrade, but opinions differ on which ones. What is good usually depends on which weapon aspect you are using and your playstyle. Most gods usually have maybe 2-3 levels of "depth" to their boon effects. I.e. you can get a boon plus 2 or 3 extra effects for it's function, most of the time. Also every god except hermes has some sort of status they can inflict which either comes with the boon or is given as another boon option once you have a boon from that god.
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Nov 23, 2020 14:07
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What do you mean by not being able to see numbers?
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Nov 23, 2020 14:10
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So is there a point in giving Bouldy nectar? There doesn't seem to be a limit on how much you can give it and I've definitely dropped 20ish to it at this point.
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Nov 23, 2020 14:13
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Queer Salutations posted:So is there a point in giving Bouldy nectar? There doesn't seem to be a limit on how much you can give it and I've definitely dropped 20ish to it at this point. you get a random small buff from bouldy when you give him nectar.
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Nov 23, 2020 14:15
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Every time you do it you get a boon from him for that run
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Nov 23, 2020 14:15
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someone awful. posted:you get a random small buff from bouldy when you give him nectar. GlyphGryph posted:Every time you do it you get a boon from him for that run Wow... I've never noticed this. Clearly I'm very observant!
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Nov 23, 2020 14:17
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GlyphGryph posted:What do you mean by not being able to see numbers? I can see my damage on enemies after I chose a certain boon but I can't see how my damage is affected before I choose or even right after. How do multipliers stack? Is +attack speed better than +%damage at the point I'm at? etc etc
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Nov 23, 2020 15:07
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Kawabata posted:I can see my damage on enemies after I chose a certain boon but I can't see how my damage is affected before I choose or even right after. How do multipliers stack? Is +attack speed better than +%damage at the point I'm at? etc etc Maybe I'm just too much of a play-by-instinct player, but you don't really need to know the exact details of how all the damage boosts interact unless you're trying to push the absolute extreme edges of game difficulty - I know in some roguelikes it is important to understand that kind of thing but this isn't really one of them. FWIW multipliers are additive though so small percentage boosts do start being less meaningful as the run goes on and you get more of them. The best you can do to understand the boon system is to think critically about how each boon's basic effect interacts with your weapon and your preferred playstyle (and start learning which god provides which effect on the basic attack/special/dash/call slots, if you haven't already memorised this). For example, for quick attacks like fist attack you ideally want something that benefits from that, like stacks of hangover from dio or zeus lightning bolts. You might see a high attack percentage on aphrodite, but you actually probably don't want her on fist attack since weakness is just a single effect that you apply once - that might be better on special or even cast depending on your playstyle. It sounds like you might be too focused on picking poms rather than getting a variety of boons? Past the first level or two poms drop off fast, as you've discovered, and getting more boons is almost always going to help you more since there will be synergies with your existing boons. Don't sleep on the auxiliary boons that aren't in your main slots on the left, they can be powerful boosts and will round out your build if you pick them right. The next level is to keep track of duo boons and legendaries and think about working towards specific ones which seem interesting or will help your run. Organza Quiz fucked around with this message at 15:37 on Nov 23, 2020 |
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Nov 23, 2020 15:34
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When a boon buffs "attack" that always means all things that use the attack button, right? Cause then you've got separate boons that only buff dash and charge attacks, so it's a little unclear if those also fall under "attack"
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Nov 23, 2020 15:35
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Yeah, I think attack boons apply to dash and charge attacks in every combination I've seen.
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Nov 23, 2020 15:57
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I think the issue with a tier list is that for pretty much everything "it depends". But general rules to add to what people said above are: - If you're attacking quickly, flat damage or things that stack are better and speed probably won't add much - If you're attacking slowly, percentage or doom is better and speed will increase dps and survivability more significantly - Poms are all good for the first 1 or 2 levels then its really only flat damage boons that appreciably benefit any further such as damage over time effects and casts. I find that reducing the difficulty comes in two ways: 1) Increasing the opportunity to attack and dodge - More dashes, athena dash, faster attack speed, attacking from a distance (I actually quite like move speed as well but I might part of the minority in that regard) 2) Increasing dps to the point where enemies die before they can hurt you - stacking synergistic effects, going all in on a single effect like a powerful cast To give an example of the above, my fastest clear is just over 13 minutes with Zag Bow, I just went all in on the attack and one shot all enemies with dash-strike power shot, most enemies died before they could attack. Now as has been pointed out, understanding the boon system takes a little time to learn so stacking synergistic effects, while very effective, requires some level of game knowledge, so it's best to try and prioritise the things from the first set to get your wins while you learn the second part. If you want to learn the mechanics without just doing it yourself and seeing what happens (which personally I enjoy as I really enjoy the core gameplay loop win or lose) then there are some youtubers who are very good at explaining things, I dont know of any good written guides but the videos people like Haelian put out are very useful, you can watch someone who is mechanically very good at the game who also understands the underlying mechanics well to see how he puts together builds on the fly, he talks through why he's choosing a certain boon or why another one is no good very often and I happen to find him quite entertaining to watch as well. I haven't watched any other Hades streamers because I get everything I need from him. In terms of getting mechanically better, unless you're running Forced Overtime @ 40% then pretty much all enemies have tells that are easy to read, especially bosses. Early on when you dont have Death Defiances I guess it can be frustrating to die to a mechanic that you only see once or twice, but in that case again just watching someone else play through a run for half an hour would give you a pretty good idea of what you're looking out for. Stangg fucked around with this message at 16:04 on Nov 23, 2020 |
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Nov 23, 2020 15:59
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Importantly, all percentile damage effects stack additive, but crit are multiplicative. This makes crit extremely powerful if you have something like the Hades aspect spear or a big Chaos boon that provides a big baseline damage boost.
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Nov 23, 2020 16:08
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EricFate posted:I can confirm this. I've been trying to get my last five DUO boons knocked off my list, and if a particular god shows up and I avoid their path (or re-roll it), then eventually they'll stop showing up if a take a boon from whomever showed up in their place. Swapping out your keepsake in between bosses can also help with this. I think it's possible to get 5+ god's boons if you've not got 4 by the time you hit the temple. I arrived there with Zeus, Poseidon and Demeter boons, and the tunnels offered Artemis and Aphrodite.
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Nov 23, 2020 16:09
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Kawabata posted:I can see my damage on enemies after I chose a certain boon but I can't see how my damage is affected before I choose or even right after. How do multipliers stack? Is +attack speed better than +%damage at the point I'm at? etc etc Almost all multipliers are added together as your damage boost, and then applied in one clump to your base damage. So you're first +100% damage doubles the damage you deal, but another +100% damage is effectively a 50% further increase to damage. So whether attack speed or a damage boost is more valuable... depends. Do you already have a really good damage boost on that attack? Then attack speed of +30% is probably better than another damage boost of +30%, because it lets you do that already boosted damage more often. Attack speed also means you finish an attack quicker and thus makes you better able to dash in, attack, and dash away with many weapons. The problem is I don't actually know what particular thing attack speed benefits  Which definitely makes the situation even more complicated. And I do wish the game made that more clear. It seems like a big improvement time to your charge up for the bow and shield though so I always grab it on those.fool of sound posted:Importantly, all percentile damage effects stack additive, but crit are multiplicative. This makes crit extremely powerful if you have something like the Hades aspect spear or a big Chaos boon that provides a big baseline damage boost. Are crits multiplicative? Hmm. I thought they weren't, based on their descriptions, since they are still "plus percent". Maybe crits are a lot better than I've been thinking. But base damage modifiers ARE definitely multiplicative, making them super useful. Poms increasing the base damage of casts are amazing if you've already got a +% on your casts, and consecutive hit bonuses are generally quite good. I think things that weaken enemy damage resistence are also multiplicative, making aphrodite quite powerful. GlyphGryph fucked around with this message at 16:37 on Nov 23, 2020 |
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Nov 23, 2020 16:30
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fool of sound posted:Importantly, all percentile damage effects stack additive, but crit are multiplicative. This makes crit extremely powerful if you have something like the Hades aspect spear or a big Chaos boon that provides a big baseline damage boost. Hades spear with artemis attack and the artemis/athena duo is one of the strongest basic builds in the game. Having like, a 40% artemis attack and that duo will give you an average of 240% increased damage to attacks on top of Hades spear buff, and theres plenty of ways to bloat that number even further.
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Nov 23, 2020 16:36
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I'm struggling to think of a time the game offers you a choice between attack speed and damage increase such that you need to compare their DPS - I guess hermes cast boons are sort of increased damage? But then it's really a choice between better cast and better attack/special. Maybe some hammers? But they would be offering bigger changes than just speed or damage.
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Nov 23, 2020 16:37
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Damage calc, from the wiki, is: Damage = Base Damage × (1 + Sum of Critical Damage Bonus) × (1 + Sum of Regular Damage Bonuses) × (Product of (1 - Damage Reductions))
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Nov 23, 2020 16:38
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GlyphGryph posted:I think things that weaken enemy damage resistence are also multiplicative, making aphrodite quite powerful. I don't THINK aphrodite's damage up vs weak boon actually reduces enemy resistance unfortunately.
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Nov 23, 2020 16:48
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Okay I'm definitely agreeing with the original sentiment that I really, really wish the boons just said what the actual damage bonus provided by the boon was. Oh, something interesting here is that it means generic damage boosts are exceptionally useful in that they boost the damage of both casts and flat effects (lightning, doom), which almost nothing else does. Privileged status is great for cast builds. I wonder if generic damage bonuses increase the damage of stuff like hangover and rupture... GlyphGryph fucked around with this message at 16:57 on Nov 23, 2020 |
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Nov 23, 2020 16:50
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