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Edit: nevermind. Removed venting.
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Nov 20, 2020 05:31
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Well now I'm curious if you were ranting about my post. :P
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Nov 20, 2020 19:03
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kedo posted:Well now I'm curious if you were ranting about my post. :P I'll leave the summation at: successful resolution of urgent issues requires a structured balance between time spent evaluating next steps as a group and allowing engineers dedicated time to focus independently on specific assigned action items. Without that structure, it is difficult to make any headway, prolonged discussions will degenerate into tail-chasing, and engineers will make silly mistakes that just add to the overall stress levels.
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Nov 21, 2020 03:16
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Yeah, "we need all the things perfect and also right now" is not a project management strategy, it's a wish that you give a genie.
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Nov 24, 2020 05:12
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Hi thread I'm attempting to learn web dev on the side in my free time and maybe transition into it as a career some time down the line, is this thread open to questions about that sort of thing? if it is right now my biggest worry is that the material I'm learning from the udemy course I'm doing is out of date and won't actually help me get a job when I'm done getting through it.
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Nov 24, 2020 06:58
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Which udemy course?
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Nov 24, 2020 09:44
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A Cup of Ramen posted:Hi thread I'm attempting to learn web dev on the side in my free time and maybe transition into it as a career some time down the line, is this thread open to questions about that sort of thing? if it is right now my biggest worry is that the material I'm learning from the udemy course I'm doing is out of date and won't actually help me get a job when I'm done getting through it. Fundamentals are always helpful so I wouldn't worry too much unless it's like, an Ember course or something. Once you learn how things work you can pick up new things a lot faster. Sometimes the specific framework you're using goes out of style but the fundamentals are almost always useful
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Nov 24, 2020 09:58
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Null of Undefined posted:Fundamentals are always helpful so I wouldn't worry too much unless it's like, an Ember course or something. Once you learn how things work you can pick up new things a lot faster. Sometimes the specific framework you're using goes out of style but the fundamentals are almost always useful Yep this. You'll never be able to keep up with the most up to date technologies while learning on the side. Just carry on with what you're learning now and get comfortable with it, learn a framework and best practices. When the time comes that you want to work in the industry if you need to pick up a new technology then, you'll do it in a fraction of the time if you already have a solid foundation in something else.
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Nov 24, 2020 13:03
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Tea Bone posted:Yep this. You'll never be able to keep up with the most up to date technologies while learning on the side. Hell, I have trouble with this and it's my full time job. They deprecated what?!
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Nov 24, 2020 13:34
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Learn CSS really well, you'll need that no matter what. A lot of FE devs try to skip it or take shortcuts around it and doing that just makes everything harder. No matter what framework you use you're ultimately going to be generating HTML and CSS so you're gonna want to know how those work.
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Nov 24, 2020 13:36
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Agreed. Anyone looking to get into web development should have at least a working knowledge of both. At that point the next logical jump would be to an actual programming language, JS being the logical choice unless you're looking to go fully backend in which case there are lots of other options to consider (JS [again], Python, PHP, etc). However JS is baked into almost every part of the web design/dev process at this point, so it's probably the best choice. If I were starting my career from scratch, I'd lean hard into JS since it runs on both the front and backend. Don't jump into a framework until you're rock solid in the three languages of your choosing. Picking up a framework when you already know the language is a thousand times easier than trying to learn a framework and a language at the same time.
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Nov 24, 2020 15:39
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Trying to decide if it would be better to recommend JS or jumping straight into TypeScript for a newbie. Part of me wants to say go straight to Typescript but it would probably be easier to learn JS first, with the understanding that you'll want to jump to Typescript pretty much as soon as you feel comfortable with Javascript concepts. I'd probably go: 1. HTML and CSS 2. Javascript fundamentals 3. Typescript fundamentals 4. React w/ Typescript Some people might say Typescript isn't necessary but I disagree.
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Nov 24, 2020 18:07
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Question...what do you guys use for a backend scripting language for your react sites? Node? I've been looking into ASP NET CORE because I have a sick love of C# even though I barely know the basics of it and it looks interesting. I know node would be easier to pivot into with basic javascript understanding though.
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Nov 24, 2020 18:20
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 This is the cockpit of a space shuttle. Typescript, I believe is useless outside of large frameworks, that are has complex if not more than these cockpits. So is usally better to learn normal javascript, on enviroments has simple has possible before jumping on a large framework. Kind of like you learn to fly a cesna before you fly on a jet, before they allow you to fly a space shuttle.
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Nov 24, 2020 18:32
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Tei posted:
jesus christ this is a bad opinion, maybe as bad as your opinions on https Typescript is great for every project and should be used instead of vanilla js 100% of the time I'd even advocate for skipping learning vanilla js at all Typescript will encourage you to learn better habits and help you avoid early footguns that are all too easy in vanilla js.
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Nov 24, 2020 18:39
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Where can / should one learn typescriot
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Nov 24, 2020 18:43
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Empress Brosephine posted:Where can / should one learn typescriot start here: https://www.typescriptlang.org/docs/handbook
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Nov 24, 2020 18:44
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The Fool posted:jesus christ this is a bad opinion, maybe as bad as your opinions on https It's ironic considering the space shuttle now looks like this and also runs Javascript,  Typescript should be used whenever possible as it can catch some stupid errors. Javascript is a subset of Typescript, so usually an easy win. MrMoo fucked around with this message at 19:01 on Nov 24, 2020 |
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Nov 24, 2020 18:58
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Tei posted:
im not sure if this is a troll post or not
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Nov 24, 2020 19:15
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ngl, all I've heard about Typescript is that is a massive PITA and nobody I know professionally uses it
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Nov 24, 2020 19:31
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nexus6 posted:ngl, all I've heard about Typescript is that is a massive PITA and nobody I know professionally uses it are you at big enterprise or small business
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Nov 24, 2020 19:33
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Biowarfare posted:are you at big enterprise or small business Small agency
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Nov 24, 2020 19:34
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TS is only a pain in the rear end if you're trying to migrate an existing repo and are having to untangle a big mess of garbage. (read, all existing code)
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Nov 24, 2020 19:38
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The Fool posted:TS is only a pain in the rear end if you're trying to migrate an existing repo and are having to untangle a big mess of garbage. (read, all existing code) I inherited someone's migration and everything was just : any "No it was easy to migrate just add :any to everything"
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Nov 24, 2020 19:47
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Biowarfare posted:I inherited someone's migration and everything was just : any doesn't the ts linter warn on any
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Nov 24, 2020 19:51
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The Fool posted:doesn't the ts linter warn on any you can disable it 10x dev here i come i thought you could just... not type stuff? better than using any
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Nov 24, 2020 19:53
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you have to type stuff but typescript's type inference is really good so it's not like you're manually typing stuff all the time. i would not want to migrate a project to typescript, but i also would not start a new project without typescript.
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Nov 24, 2020 19:59
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prom candy posted:you have to type stuff but typescript's type inference is really good so it's not like you're manually typing stuff all the time. ok so it seems that if you dont have strict: true it lets you get away with not actually typing things, which might be useful for migrating (and terrible for everything else)
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Nov 24, 2020 20:13
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The Fool posted:doesn't the ts linter warn on any what linter the entire file is bounded by istanbul ignore comments
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Nov 24, 2020 20:21
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prom candy posted:you have to type stuff but typescript's type inference is really good so it's not like you're manually typing stuff all the time. javascript projects used to have a certain practical limit in size before the developer or company would give up and write whatever it was they were doing in a different language. typescript makes it much easier to create huge libraries containing hundreds of megabytes of code. it's somewhat analogous to how football helmets might overall be increasing the number of head injuries because they make players feel invulnerable so they run into each other harder. that said, i wouldn't be caught dead developing in vanilla js. gently caress that.
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Nov 24, 2020 22:42
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Bruegels Fuckbooks posted:javascript projects used to have a certain practical limit in size before the developer or company would give up and write whatever it was they were doing in a different language. typescript makes it much easier to create huge libraries containing hundreds of megabytes of code. it's somewhat analogous to how football helmets might overall be increasing the number of head injuries because they make players feel invulnerable so they run into each other harder. The NFL maintains a react module called helmet that modifies <head> Not apropos of anything, but I was amused when I discovered it
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Nov 24, 2020 22:51
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Bruegels Fuckbooks posted:
vanilla js is great for very quick prototyping or short scripts there are a few small things i prefer using it over bash for
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Nov 24, 2020 23:00
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Bruegels Fuckbooks posted:javascript projects used to have a certain practical limit in size before the developer or company would give up and write whatever it was they were doing in a different language. typescript makes it much easier to create huge libraries containing hundreds of megabytes of code. it's somewhat analogous to how football helmets might overall be increasing the number of head injuries because they make players feel invulnerable so they run into each other harder. most of the code I write is front end code, so switching to a different language isn't all that easy. the backend language i have the most experience with is Ruby/Rails and I think i would much rather have a huge typescript API than a huge Rails API. might be a grass is greener thing.
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Nov 24, 2020 23:10
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I am not against good stuff. I am just commenting on the idea of starting with something simple, then moving to something complex. At the moment, browsers don't accept TypeScript nativelly, so any work pipeline is going to need... what? Anyone have a repo with the smaller example of a html page + typescript.
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Nov 25, 2020 01:52
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TS is just a superscript of JS. You need to transpile it into JS somehow because JS is the language of the browser. I think there's a CLI tool, but you can also use something to manage it for you like webpack. There should be plenty of open source projects out there that use TS, but from what I've seen it's usually always with a framework like React.
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Nov 25, 2020 02:02
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Typescript is an improvement to the language, but requires a build step. If your process has one anyway, use it. If not, balance easier-to-use code with skipping the build and config TS requires.
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Nov 25, 2020 02:11
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Look if you're just making a website that needs a hamburger menu and maybe a modal or two you can absolutely (and probably should) use vanilla JS. There's no need to overengineer every project that touches JS.
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Nov 25, 2020 02:12
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Related: Let's build a better web together by not abusing JS. React etc are nice for building interactive applications you don't need to (or can't) install on a computer, but have no place on informational or simple websites. These frameworks and NPM dependencies slow down the internet experience, and nullify improvements in computer and networks speeds. I've built a VDOM-style WASM framework similar to React and Elm. Now, I use a few sparse JS files that do targeted DOM manipulation on my latest sites, and all ones I'll build going forward. Dominoes fucked around with this message at 02:23 on Nov 25, 2020 |
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Nov 25, 2020 02:20
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AlphaKeny1 posted:Which udemy course? Null of Undefined posted:Fundamentals are always helpful so I wouldn't worry too much unless it's like, an Ember course or something. Once you learn how things work you can pick up new things a lot faster. Sometimes the specific framework you're using goes out of style but the fundamentals are almost always useful Tea Bone posted:Yep this. You'll never be able to keep up with the most up to date technologies while learning on the side. Just carry on with what you're learning now and get comfortable with it, learn a framework and best practices. When the time comes that you want to work in the industry if you need to pick up a new technology then, you'll do it in a fraction of the time if you already have a solid foundation in something else. alright then I'll keep that in mind and think of it as focusing on nailing the basics down so well that learning new frameworks will be easy, instead of getting caught up in being worried about staying up to date. kedo posted:Agreed. Anyone looking to get into web development should have at least a working knowledge of both. At that point the next logical jump would be to an actual programming language, JS being the logical choice unless you're looking to go fully backend in which case there are lots of other options to consider (JS [again], Python, PHP, etc). However JS is baked into almost every part of the web design/dev process at this point, so it's probably the best choice. If I were starting my career from scratch, I'd lean hard into JS since it runs on both the front and backend. prom candy posted:1. HTML and CSS For the most part I'm quite comfortable with HTML and CSS now, haven't really done much in JS though... don't suppose anyone would have any course recommendations that cover JS really well would they? As for Typescript it wasn't even on my radar until now so hey glad I actually upped and asked about this.
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Nov 25, 2020 07:32
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prom candy posted:Trying to decide if it would be better to recommend JS or jumping straight into TypeScript for a newbie. Part of me wants to say go straight to Typescript but it would probably be easier to learn JS first, with the understanding that you'll want to jump to Typescript pretty much as soon as you feel comfortable with Javascript concepts. Typescript isn't necessary Dominoes posted:Related: Let's build a better web together by not abusing JS. React etc are nice for building interactive applications you don't need to (or can't) install on a computer, but have no place on informational or simple websites. These frameworks and NPM dependencies slow down the internet experience, and nullify improvements in computer and networks speeds. Please tell this to my boss
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Nov 25, 2020 10:03
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