Genshin Impact: The gadget system is the second 5*

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > Genshin Impact: The gadget system is the second 5*

AParadox: Jan 7, 2012

TheFluff posted:

This is... not accurate. Especially not the "she doesn't require setting up to maximize damage" part, which is the exact opposite of the truth.

Mona's burst is a single hit with a base 442% ATK multiplier. On its own this is quite unimpressive, especially for a 5*. It also has a "increases incoming damage taken" debuff on enemies hit by it, but this debuff doesn't apply to its own damage so it doesn't matter (and this damage increase stacks additively with other +DMG% buffs like the elemental damage on your goblet for example so it's way less impressive than it sounds). For comparison, the total multiplier on Xiangling's ult if you get all the hits is well over 1000%, and let's not even talk about Xingqiu's burst. If I just press the button with no preparation my Mona (level 75 with mostly +16 artifacts and a few +20 scattered in, like 1600 ATK IIRC, burst at talent level 7) does a single hit for 10k damage. That's absolutely nothing, it's like one Xiangling autoattack cycle.

The only way you can get Mona's burst to do actually good damage is by abusing damage multiplier stacking and specifically by using vaporize. The total damage multiplier is poo poo but I'm pretty sure it's the biggest single hit hydro attack currently in the game, and since vaporize multiplies the damage of the triggering attack and stacks multiplicatively with everything else, you can get a single very big number by stacking vaporize (with lots of EM) + crit + some regular damage multipliers.

Setting this up though is quite fiddly. To get the vaporize proc we want we need to apply hydro to an enemy afflicted by pyro, which sounds easy enough, but Mona's burst has finicky mechanics that makes it harder. It doesn't apply damage immediately, but rather it applies a debuff that triggers the hydro damage either when the enemy takes damage from some other source, or otherwise after a timeout. This debuff applies hydro but does no damage, so if you just use Mona's burst on an enemy with pyro on them you'll get a zero damage vaporize proc. So in order to get the big number, first you need to apply pyro to the enemy, then use Mona's burst, causing a zero damage vaporize proc, then wait for 1-2 seconds for the vaporize reaction cooldown to expire, and then finally use a pyro attack again - this will first apply pyro, then Mona's damage, proccing a vaporize again. If the enemy takes damage from any source before you can do the second pyro attack (e.g. from standing on burning grass or whatever) then welp you lost your opportunity and the ult will only do its regular damage. Oh, and you need it to crit too to get the youtube montage numbers. Many of the biggest numbers you'll see on youtube are with "reset comps" - high crit damage but low crit chance and just reset the fight until you get the crit you want.

Building ER on Mona is not that good by the way, her ult is quite cheap on energy and has a 15 second cooldown so charging it isn't much of a problem even with a modest amount of ER. I have Favonius Codex on her because I haven't bothered leveling any other weapon but that alone is already too much energy recharge - the ult recharges faster than I can use it in many situations and it would be better to just build more damage instead.

It's very useful for exploration but it's a rather significant weakness in combat. First off she will always dash the direction you're facing when you hit shift, so you need to turn first and then dash if you want to go somewhere specific. More importantly though you can't double-dash or animation cancel out of the (rather long) recovery animation, nor dash cancel out of knockbacks, so she's extremely susceptible to stunlocks and large radius AoE's in general. Oh, and while in the animation she gets stuck on the tiniest ledges.

I'm not sure what you consider good damage but my mona ult does does 27K aoe damage unsupported with kinda mediocre stats for ar46: 1300 AR 60% crit 130% crit damage and 60% hydro(most coming from her passive).

With the extremely finicky condition of having xiangling bear present in the field, that 27K becomes suddenly becomes a 70K hit. No other character I have bring so much damage and cc for how little time she actually spends on the field.

Her main problem is that hydro damage is so poo poo against much of the current roster of enemies and the only positive interaction against enemies who have innate element is vaporize. But that's more a hydro problem than mona's and every hydro damage and support character suffers from it.

# ? Nov 25, 2020 11:27

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# ? May 25, 2024 22:51

Archonex: May 2, 2012; MY OPINION IS SEERS OF THE THRONE PROPAGANDA IGNORE MY GNOSIS-IMPAIRED RAMBLINGS

AParadox posted:

I'm not sure what you consider good damage but my mona ult does does 27K aoe damage unsupported with kinda mediocre stats for ar46: 1300 AR 60% crit 130% crit damage and 60% hydro(most coming from her passive).

With the extremely finicky condition of having xiangling bear present in the field, that 27K becomes suddenly becomes a 70K hit. No other character I have bring so much damage and cc for how little time she actually spends on the field.

Her main problem is that hydro damage is so poo poo against much of the current roster of enemies and the only positive interaction against enemies who have innate element is vaporize. But that's more a hydro problem than mona's and every hydro damage and support character suffers from it.

This, pretty much. A well geared Mona is doing absurd amounts of damage in excess of what the poster mentioned. Anyone thinking she's not an absurd dumpster truck of hydro damage is either not using her on the intended enemies or is borking something up somewhere in her stat layout.

To give an idea of it, I once saw a Mona user drop a 200K crit burst in that elemental burst event. To say that this was overkill is kind of like saying that you used a nuke to get rid of a fly. It was one of the few times that I actually started chatting to the randoms I was grouping with, since it was such a "What did I just witness? :stare:

" moment that I had to ask what their stat layout was.

The main downside is that a lot of enemies aren't set up to benefit from this. That, and the fact that fire characters are currently set up with wonky applications unless you get Bennet or Diluc. As we get more zones however that will probably change.

Edit: Bennet really is undervalued too, come to think of it. There's a reason why Bennet's nickname on Reddit is (the fairly hilarious) "Infinite Burst Works". Dude is basically a top tier choice for buffing, healing, and spamming his ele skill if you know the little idiosyncrasies behind how his ele skill and burst work. He's a vital part of a lot of one shot builds too due to the spammable way his burst and ele attack work as well.

Hilariously, if you know the mechanics behind his ele skill he's probably a better pyro applier than Diluc is as well. Dude has like a 1.5s cooldown on it under the proper circumstances. And can have a frightening amount of uptime on his burst.

Archonex fucked around with this message at 11:49 on Nov 25, 2020

# ? Nov 25, 2020 11:38

Xun: Apr 25, 2010

My bennets burst is never up, do you know any good explanations on how this guy works?

# ? Nov 25, 2020 11:57

TheFluff: Dec 13, 2006; FRIENDS, LISTEN TO ME
I AM A SEAGULL
OF WEALTH AND TASTE

AParadox posted:

I'm not sure what you consider good damage but my mona ult does does 27K aoe damage unsupported with kinda mediocre stats for ar46: 1300 AR 60% crit 130% crit damage and 60% hydro(most coming from her passive).

The multiplier on her ult is big for a single hit but significantly smaller than the total multiplier of many 4* support ults including ones that don't require the character to be on the field for the duration of the ult. If you had the same stats and talent levels on Xiangling, she'd do more than twice that damage total over the duration of her ult. I consider that to be bad for a 5*.

AParadox posted:

With the extremely finicky condition of having xiangling bear present in the field, that 27K becomes suddenly becomes a 70K hit. No other character I have bring so much damage and cc for how little time she actually spends on the field.

Just using Guoba is not enough to get the vaporize proc off, you'll lose it to the internal reaction cooldown. I've never managed to do it, in any case. The only way I've been able to trigger it with Xiangling is by putting down Guoba, wait for him to expire, use Mona ult, wait another second or two, then either put down Guoba again (if he's off cooldown already) or trigger it with Xiangling's ult.

The CC on Mona's burst is very eh, it only works against trash mobs really and it stops working once you attack them.

TheFluff fucked around with this message at 12:14 on Nov 25, 2020

# ? Nov 25, 2020 12:04

Archonex: May 2, 2012; MY OPINION IS SEERS OF THE THRONE PROPAGANDA IGNORE MY GNOSIS-IMPAIRED RAMBLINGS

Xun posted:

My bennets burst is never up, do you know any good explanations on how this guy works?

So Bennet has a few tricks that make him seem like utter crap at first glance, but make him an utterly essential buffer and backup DPS when you look into him more closely.

The first thing is that his stage 2 and 3 ele skill attacks are a trap. They lock you down for a few seconds (Meaning you're not dodging in the bigger fights you'd want to use him.) and don't necessarily do comparable damage. In addition to that, the higher the stage you charge, the more the cooldown.

HOWEVER, his stage 1 ele skill has a CD of 4-5 seconds (5s originally if I recall correctly, ascension 1 reduces it to 4s) outside of his burst. In his burst with his final talent that cooldown is given another 50% cooldown to reduce it to around 2s. Meaning that while the burst is up he goes from a hilarious failure to a state of Infinite Swording. And this isn't an exaggeration. His burst has a max uptime of 12 seconds at 60 energy cost. Giving him an attack focused weapon (More on this later.) for damage and an energy recharge set means that this can be reduced down to 40ish energy pretty easily. Which means that he can literally charge his burst to be ready again before his burst even ends. Meaning you've got a near infinite uptime on his burst with time to spare to lay down some pretty big numbers so long as you don't let the enemy run off.

This lead to him getting the nickname of Infinite Burst Works. Because his burst is all about punch-slamming down a field where he's nigh unkillable and magically stabbing the everloving poo poo out of things in it in rapid succession. And then to top it all off Fantastic Voyage gives a healing DOT to anyone in it that basically makes them unkillable (Hence the nigh unkillable thing.) while also allowing the easy application of the pyro element to boost other party members attacks. In a roundabout way his burst has the same effect as Beidou's skill, only using more obscure methods to do it. This goes from roundabout to just straight up direct with his C6. Which gives certain weapon types a direct amount of pyro damage for applications in normal attacks.

As a bonus, however, he's extremely useful in any build that wants to build for insane damage numbers. Y'see, anyone in his field also gets the same traits he does (Healing, pyro element, etc, etc.) with an extra addition. They get all of his base attack damage added onto their own attack damage. Factor this in with Thrilling Tales of the Dragon Slayers and the pyro element applied for reactions and you can get absurd crits that just instantly vaporize a boss and trivialize all but the most gimmicky of the spiral corridor content.

Mona is also potentially useful for this outside of the nuking role because her burst applies a damage boost to any attack (50% extra damage at level 5) that hits an enemy affected by it it for 4.5s. Meaning you can go from Bennet -> Mona -> a final character to just obliterate anything since you can "store" the actual practical effects of Mona's burst for the first hit by the third character. In fact, you can even sub Mona out of the DPS character type and straight into support buffing by giving her the Thrilling Tales of the Dragon Slayer book. This stacks yet another damage buff (Around 48% extra attack damage.) that lets even characters like Ningguang do absurd damage even though they're fairly tank focused. Though obviously if you want to maximize the damage you should choose a burst damage focused character (Klee is good for this, according to some people. No clue what her DPS looks like here however so I can't comment on it.) with attack, crit, and crit damage as a side stat for the final slot in the three person line up.

This reddit thread puts it best:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Genshin_Impact/comments/j5djvt/how_to_bennett_infinite_burst_works/

Basically, in a weird sort of way Bennet is best used in any team that does not use pyro as a main DPS. Meaning that pyro becomes an element of the main DPS. It's a bit mind fucky but once you read his stats and play him a bit it becomes apparent how broken he is.

Archonex fucked around with this message at 12:50 on Nov 25, 2020

# ? Nov 25, 2020 12:11

Kild: Apr 24, 2010

TheFluff posted:

The multiplier on her ult is big for a single hit but significantly smaller than the total multiplier of many 4* support ults including ones that don't require the character to be on the field for the duration of the ult. If you had the same stats and talent levels on Xiangling, she'd do more than twice that damage total over the duration of her ult. I consider that to be bad for a 5*.

It's weird to compare a single hit to a dot/multi hit. In Abyss if I can one shot a wave that's better than me waiting several seconds for her to do the same amount of damage as just pressing Q even ignoring the fact Mona's burst is gonna hit most of the room while Xiangling's fire discs aren't and can be finicky like on top of Stormterror where they'll whiff if you're too close to the neck crystal.

Kild fucked around with this message at 12:18 on Nov 25, 2020

# ? Nov 25, 2020 12:16

TheFluff: Dec 13, 2006; FRIENDS, LISTEN TO ME
I AM A SEAGULL
OF WEALTH AND TASTE

Kild posted:

It's weird to compare a single hit to a dot/multi hit. In Abyss if I can one shot a wave that's better than me waiting several seconds for her to do the same amount of damage as just pressing Q even ignoring the fact Mona's burst is gonna hit most of the room while Xiangling's fire discs aren't and can be finicky like on top of Stormterror where they'll whiff if you're too close to the neck crystal.

I don't really see that. The range on Mona's ult is not that big. It doesn't do damage immediately either, you have to do damage to everyone hit by it to trigger it or it'll take 8 seconds to do damage. Stormterror is janky as hell yes but it's also very easy and you only do it once a week so it's not like optimizing for that fight matters.

# ? Nov 25, 2020 12:21

Framboise: Sep 21, 2014; To make yourself feel better, you make it so you'll never give in to your forevers and live for always.; Lipstick Apathy

Bruceski posted:

All of Indiana has done DST since 2006, but people for some reason still think they don't.

Bolded comment still applies, because Indiana.

Can confirm, lived in Indiana all my life and we didn't have dst when I was a kid and it's a change I loving hated when I was 16 and still hate now.

Also, I thought linking phone number was bad because mihoyo didn't keep that secure and anyone could look it up.

# ? Nov 25, 2020 12:47

Archonex: May 2, 2012; MY OPINION IS SEERS OF THE THRONE PROPAGANDA IGNORE MY GNOSIS-IMPAIRED RAMBLINGS

TheFluff posted:

I don't really see that. The range on Mona's ult is not that big. It doesn't do damage immediately either, you have to do damage to everyone hit by it to trigger it or it'll take 8 seconds to do damage. Stormterror is janky as hell yes but it's also very easy and you only do it once a week so it's not like optimizing for that fight matters.

Unless the enemy has a physical shield like the Hilichurls the timer on it this is literally a good thing. It lets you set up to do damage. And it's trivial to set it off anyways.

Archonex fucked around with this message at 12:53 on Nov 25, 2020

# ? Nov 25, 2020 12:48

AParadox: Jan 7, 2012

TheFluff posted:

I don't really see that. The range on Mona's ult is not that big. It doesn't do damage immediately either, you have to do damage to everyone hit by it to trigger it or it'll take 8 seconds to do damage. Stormterror is janky as hell yes but it's also very easy and you only do it once a week so it's not like optimizing for that fight matters.

I've always procced her ult with gouba and I never stand there with her to wait the damage to proc. The damage does take few seconds to come in but most enemies are cc'ed for this duration. All I do is switch in, cast ult, maybe cast e if gouba is not on the field then I switch off. She spends almost 0 time on the field for me while often doing the most damage of my team.

Sometimes I use her charged atacks if I have xiangling ult, since her charged vaporize procs hit for 17K. But I usually have have something better to do.

# ? Nov 25, 2020 12:51

Jinnigan: Feb 12, 2007; We shall pay him a visit. There will be a picnic. Tea shall be served.

Archonex posted:

So Bennet has a few tricks that make him seem like utter crap at first glance, but make him an utterly essential buffer and backup DPS when you look into him more closely.

The first thing is that his stage 2 and 3 ele skill attacks are a trap. They lock you down for a few seconds (Meaning you're not dodging in the bigger fights you'd want to use him.) and don't necessarily do comparable damage. In addition to that, the higher the stage you charge, the more the cooldown.

HOWEVER, his stage 1 ele skill has a CD of 4-5 seconds (5s originally if I recall correctly, ascension 1 reduces it to 4s) outside of his burst. In his burst with his final talent that cooldown is given another 50% cooldown to reduce it to around 2s. Meaning that while the burst is up he goes from a hilarious failure to a state of Infinite Swording. And this isn't an exaggeration. His burst has a max uptime of 12 seconds at 60 energy cost. Giving him an attack focused weapon (More on this later.) for damage and an energy recharge set means that this can be reduced down to 40ish energy pretty easily. Which means that he can literally charge his burst to be ready again before his burst even ends. Meaning you've got a near infinite uptime on his burst with time to spare to lay down some pretty big numbers so long as you don't let the enemy run off.

This lead to him getting the nickname of Infinite Burst Works. Because his burst is all about punch-slamming down a field where he's nigh unkillable and magically stabbing the everloving poo poo out of things in it in rapid succession. And then to top it all off Fantastic Voyage gives a healing DOT to anyone in it that basically makes them unkillable (Hence the nigh unkillable thing.) while also allowing the easy application of the pyro element to boost other party members attacks. In a roundabout way his burst has the same effect as Beidou's skill, only using more obscure methods to do it. This goes from roundabout to just straight up direct with his C6. Which gives certain weapon types a direct amount of pyro damage for applications in normal attacks.

As a bonus, however, he's extremely useful in any build that wants to build for insane damage numbers. Y'see, anyone in his field also gets the same traits he does (Healing, pyro element, etc, etc.) with an extra addition. They get all of his base attack damage added onto their own attack damage. Factor this in with Thrilling Tales of the Dragon Slayers and the pyro element applied for reactions and you can get absurd crits that just instantly vaporize a boss and trivialize all but the most gimmicky of the spiral corridor content.

Mona is also potentially useful for this outside of the nuking role because her burst applies a damage boost to any attack (50% extra damage at level 5) that hits an enemy affected by it it for 4.5s. Meaning you can go from Bennet -> Mona -> a final character to just obliterate anything since you can "store" the actual practical effects of Mona's burst for the first hit by the third character. In fact, you can even sub Mona out of the DPS character type and straight into support buffing by giving her the Thrilling Tales of the Dragon Slayer book. This stacks yet another damage buff (Around 48% extra attack damage.) that lets even characters like Ningguang do absurd damage even though they're fairly tank focused. Though obviously if you want to maximize the damage you should choose a burst damage focused character (Klee is good for this, according to some people. No clue what her DPS looks like here however so I can't comment on it.) with attack, crit, and crit damage as a side stat for the final slot in the three person line up.

This reddit thread puts it best:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Genshin_Impact/comments/j5djvt/how_to_bennett_infinite_burst_works/

Basically, in a weird sort of way Bennet is best used in any team that does not use pyro as a main DPS. Meaning that pyro becomes an element of the main DPS. It's a bit mind fucky but once you read his stats and play him a bit it becomes apparent how broken he is.

me, a childe and bennett haver: :getin:

# ? Nov 25, 2020 13:32

Archonex: May 2, 2012; MY OPINION IS SEERS OF THE THRONE PROPAGANDA IGNORE MY GNOSIS-IMPAIRED RAMBLINGS

Jinnigan posted:

me, a childe and bennett haver:

The final note on that is that the cooldown on bursts is around 15 seconds. Meaning that if you build for him right the enemy has only 3s to kill Bennett and wipe your team. Outside of bullshit gimmicks like floor 7/8 and certain boss attacks that's just not doable for the enemy. Also, depending on the cinematic effect he may also have iframes during the casting of his burst like a lot of other characters. Meaning that 4s and onwards lets you just immunize many shorter attacks if you time it right.

I'd have to check to see if his burst has iframes. Some characters (Like Fischl.) don't seem to have them, or they're so short that it's impractical to use them. But if so that just adds a little bit of extra brokenness to it.

Fun fact: Abusing iframes is one of the only easy ways you can get the semi-secret "Avoid the mimic hydro bombs." achievement for the water world boss.

Archonex fucked around with this message at 13:47 on Nov 25, 2020

# ? Nov 25, 2020 13:37

Mailer: Nov 4, 2009; Have you accepted The Void as your lord and savior?

Fish's burst has iframes while you're flying, or at least seems to, but it's so quick and moves around so it's not great as a big invulnerability button. Diona appears to have iframes on kicking the shaker over, which I've used a lot during the current event. I'd fight Oceanid to test but I don't quite hate my life that much.

# ? Nov 25, 2020 14:14

hit button: Mar 18, 2012

Mailer posted:

Fish's burst has iframes while you're flying

It does not.

AFAIK every character has iframes extending for the full length of their burst animation, but Fischl doesn't have a burst animation as such, as she's controllable throughout the duration.

# ? Nov 25, 2020 14:26

Xun: Apr 25, 2010

Ah the secret to bennet burst is to actually use him in the field, I tend to switch to my dps asap and start whaling on things. I guess the idea is to then burst, spam e untill it's charged again, and then switch to dps and start whaling?

# ? Nov 25, 2020 14:43

Bananasaurus Rex: Mar 19, 2009

I never remember that fischl's burst doesn't have i-frames and I try to use it as an escape which just ends up with her getting demolished. One of her consellations does heal her after so that seems good for that particular purpose.

She does get hyper armor tho. But thats not necessarily good because she can get smacked multiple times in a short time frame.

# ? Nov 25, 2020 14:48

RosaParksOfDip: May 11, 2009

So thus far team comp hasn't really matter a huge deal(currently running klee, razor, jean, diona) but I just pulled ning and unlocked fish from the event. What the hell should my proper teams be, especially since it's starting to get expensive to level? Klee, XingQ, Fish, Jean? And Razor, Diona, Ning, Barb?

Razor c1
Diona c1
XingQ c2
Noelle c4
Beidou c2
Barb c2
The rest are c0.

# ? Nov 25, 2020 14:52

No Wave: Sep 18, 2005; HA! HA! NICE! WHAT A TOOL!

Razor/Fishl/Diona/Kaeya(? Not sure about Kaeya but you don't really have to level him)

Klee/Xiangling/Xingqiu/Jean (Xiangling is most replaceable here but I think she's still ok)

No Wave fucked around with this message at 15:50 on Nov 25, 2020

# ? Nov 25, 2020 15:35

Soothing Vapors: Mar 26, 2006; Associate Justice Lena "Kegels" Dunham: An uncool thought to have: 'is that guy walking in the dark behind me a rapist? Never mind, he's Asian.

TheFluff posted:

It's very useful for exploration but it's a rather significant weakness in combat. First off she will always dash the direction you're facing when you hit shift, so you need to turn first and then dash if you want to go somewhere specific. More importantly though you can't double-dash or animation cancel out of the (rather long) recovery animation, nor dash cancel out of knockbacks, so she's extremely susceptible to stunlocks and large radius AoE's in general. Oh, and while in the animation she gets stuck on the tiniest ledges.

I think I'm going to skip Ayaka for this very reason. I love Mona and her kit but 80% of my fried egg uses are because I forget I'm on Mona, I try to dash, and I get absolutely owned

Bananasaurus Rex posted:

I never remember that fischl's burst doesn't have i-frames and I try to use it as an escape which just ends up with her getting demolished. One of her consellations does heal her after so that seems good for that particular purpose.

This is the other 20% of my fried eggs

# ? Nov 25, 2020 16:53

Radical: Apr 6, 2011

huh, i got dailies in both mondstadt and liyue today. first time that ever happened to me.

# ? Nov 25, 2020 16:56

dogsicle: Oct 23, 2012

Ayaka seems like she'll be an interesting DPS but it does feel like people get a bit too hyped up over her supposedly being a safe alternative to Mona for crossing water. meanwhile Mona is a good support and has a crafting passive so you really could do worse, and i don't feel like having to pay attention to your paths over water is a big deal.

e: then again i got half baited into rolling Venti because of his traversal ability i only used for the first couple weeks of the game, so glass houses

# ? Nov 25, 2020 17:06

Tae: Oct 24, 2010; Hello? Can you hear me? ...Perhaps if I shout? AAAAAAAAAH!

I mean, 90% of why people who don't use spreadsheets are going roll because

1) She's an iato samurai lady

2) she's voiced by Saori Hayami

# ? Nov 25, 2020 17:08

dogsicle: Oct 23, 2012

rolling based on character is always a given, the dash is just a goofy taking point to me

# ? Nov 25, 2020 17:10

RosaParksOfDip: May 11, 2009

Tae posted:

I mean, 90% of why people who don't use spreadsheets are going roll because

1) She's an iato samurai lady

2) she's voiced by Saori Hayami

Also she's a move for move copy of Vergil from DMC if some of the videos are accurate.

# ? Nov 25, 2020 17:17

Quetzadilla: Jun 6, 2005; A PARTICULARLY GHOULISH SHITPOSTER FOR NEOLIBERLISM AND THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY

Flair posted:

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Is anyone else unable to log in to this website? I've tried on Firefox and chrome but after putting in my credentials and click the login button, nothing happens. I might have my password wrong since I haven't used it in years but it's not giving me any kind of error at all.

# ? Nov 25, 2020 17:36

MarquiseMindfang: Jan 6, 2013; vriska (vriska)

For everyone talking about Bennett you can also give him the Noblesse Oblige set and he will constantly apply ANOTHER 20% ATK to the entire party for 12s every time he uses his Burst. Same duration as the Burst.

# ? Nov 25, 2020 17:41

Corla Plankun: May 8, 2007; improve the lives of everyone

Is there any solution to Ice Slimes and the armored turbo churl guys that isn't just raw DPS? Even with Ningguang and Chongyun to bust the shields it takes me FOREVER to kill those two kinds of mobs.

edit: I did just cross a WL threshold so probably it will get easier but gosh it feels bad right now.

# ? Nov 25, 2020 18:04

No Wave: Sep 18, 2005; HA! HA! NICE! WHAT A TOOL!

Cryo DPS just doesnt seem that good. Two of the reactions are superconduct and frozen (awkward and awkward) and they get the worse side of melt. She could be nice with Xiangling though I suppose, even better than Childe.

# ? Nov 25, 2020 18:09

Andrast: Apr 21, 2010

No Wave posted:

Cryo DPS just doesnt seem that good. Two of the reactions are superconduct and frozen (awkward and awkward) and they get the worse side of melt. She could be nice with Xiangling though I suppose, even better than Childe.

Superconduct isn't particularly awkward, you just want to be doing mostly physical damage with it

# ? Nov 25, 2020 18:13

Magus42: Jan 12, 2007; Oh no you di'n't

Framboise posted:

Also, I thought linking phone number was bad because mihoyo didn't keep that secure and anyone could look it up.

Pretty sure that was fixed already.

# ? Nov 25, 2020 18:18

berenzen: Jan 23, 2012

If Ayaka ends up being sword element, she could be good if very comp specific. Otherwise she'll need to have some way to interact with frozen either with her skill or her ascension passives in order to be an effective unit.

# ? Nov 25, 2020 18:21

Hyper Inferno: Jun 11, 2015

Superconduct with Chongyun specifically is kind of weird because his skill turns off the party's ability for non-bow users to benefit from the defense down debuff.

# ? Nov 25, 2020 18:22

Hackan Slash: May 31, 2007; Hit it until it's not a problem anymore

Corla Plankun posted:

Is there any solution to Ice Slimes and the armored turbo churl guys that isn't just raw DPS? Even with Ningguang and Chongyun to bust the shields it takes me FOREVER to kill those two kinds of mobs.

edit: I did just cross a WL threshold so probably it will get easier but gosh it feels bad right now.

Fire will burst the ice slime shields faster than geo, and for the beefy churls there's not really a secret. Big Sword, geo, or explosion (overload/klee)

# ? Nov 25, 2020 18:25

Tamba: Apr 5, 2010

dogsicle posted:

e: then again i got half baited into rolling Venti because of his traversal ability i only used for the first couple weeks of the game, so glass houses

I'm glad I rolled Venti.
So many people have been complaining about the second part of this event. Meanwhile I just had to hit Venti's Q twice and everything that's not the big Fatui was dead without me taking any damage.

# ? Nov 25, 2020 18:28

TheFluff: Dec 13, 2006; FRIENDS, LISTEN TO ME
I AM A SEAGULL
OF WEALTH AND TASTE

Archonex posted:

Unless the enemy has a physical shield like the Hilichurls the timer on it this is literally a good thing. It lets you set up to do damage. And it's trivial to set it off anyways.

I don't disagree in general, but this was specifically in response to a post that said that it applies damage faster than e.g. Xiangling's ult. Which is technically true I guess but not really to a meaningful degree, is what I'm saying.

AParadox posted:

I've always procced her ult with gouba and I never stand there with her to wait the damage to proc. The damage does take few seconds to come in but most enemies are cc'ed for this duration. All I do is switch in, cast ult, maybe cast e if gouba is not on the field then I switch off. She spends almost 0 time on the field for me while often doing the most damage of my team.

Sometimes I use her charged atacks if I have xiangling ult, since her charged vaporize procs hit for 17K. But I usually have have something better to do.

How about you show me how to vaporize it with Guoba without waiting then? Here's me trying to do it twice and both times only getting a zero-damage vaporize when the debuff reacts with pyro, then no vaporize on the actual damaging hit (because of the reaction cooldown):

https://streamable.com/r8o0bu

https://streamable.com/zz0l89

If you drop Guoba after Mona's ult, then you get this instead:

https://streamable.com/1bdqef

Debuff applies hydro, and then you get a pyro-on-hydro vaporize proc that increases Guoba's damage, not the ult's.

The proper way to do it is like this:

https://streamable.com/ie245f

Drop Guoba, wait until he despawns, pop ult, wait another couple seconds, pop Guoba down again. Note that here we get both the zero damage vaporize proc from the debuff which clears the pyro aura from the enemy and a second vaporize from the ult's damage. I'm pretty sure you can't use a different aura element for the hydro debuff to react with either - it has to be pyro, or the hydro aura won't be cleared.

Now, this setup isn't really super complicated or anything, but this is just the very basics of getting the vaporize off at all. 27k damage is really not that much, it just seems that way because it's all in a single number. My Xiangling's ult alone is only a few thousand damage off from that number completely unsupported with no reactions at all, and while she has ~250 more ATK than Mona, she's actually full physical spec. To get the really big numbers you need a lot more investment and setup than this - you want things like Bennet ult, a Viridiscent Venerer proc for hydro within 10 seconds before this, a bunch of crit, and other bonuses such as Thrilling Tales of Dragon Slayers and whatnot. That's what I mean when I say that to get Mona's ult to actually work great you need some fiddly setup (and also a bunch of investment and team synergy).

TheFluff fucked around with this message at 22:33 on Nov 25, 2020

# ? Nov 25, 2020 18:30

The Deleter: May 22, 2010

I randomly got Qiqi from a roll, so, uh, how do? I assume Genshin.gg isn't that great for builds. And I don't have any great swords for her either.

Also, Xiangling and Jean have ascended twice which is pretty great. The event is getting kinda tiring since I'm not playing co-op, and I still have the extra quests to do.

# ? Nov 25, 2020 19:18

gandlethorpe: Aug 16, 2008

No Wave posted:

Cryo DPS just doesnt seem that good. Two of the reactions are superconduct and frozen (awkward and awkward) and they get the worse side of melt. She could be nice with Xiangling though I suppose, even better than Childe.

My DPS has felt pretty fine.

Cryo slimes do make me cry though.

# ? Nov 25, 2020 19:35

dogsicle: Oct 23, 2012

The Deleter posted:

I randomly got Qiqi from a roll, so, uh, how do? I assume Genshin.gg isn't that great for builds. And I don't have any great swords for her either.

Also, Xiangling and Jean have ascended twice which is pretty great. The event is getting kinda tiring since I'm not playing co-op, and I still have the extra quests to do.

no idea what g.gg recommends but:

- ascend to 60/70 for both passive unlocks
- give highest ATK sword you have freely available, recharge% is a good substat for her (Skyrider, Favonius, Sacrificial), Rancor is perfectly good as an f2p option
- 2pc Maiden's + 2pc Exile/Scholar or full 4pc Maiden's
- artifact stats aren't a huge deal. healing% hat would be super nice and recharge% hourglass is another option, otherwise ATK% is fine
- she's mostly a skill and burst bot, but you may do some short combos with her to apply one of her passive seals so other characters can heal off that. just keep the 30s cooldown on that ability in mind so you don't waste time trying to apply seals again. she can also tank when things get hairy if you keep her out and comboing during her skill/after burst

# ? Nov 25, 2020 19:45

No Wave: Sep 18, 2005; HA! HA! NICE! WHAT A TOOL!

Qiqi has one of the most impactful level 60 talents in the game. Used properly it's like getting a free ult every 30 seconds. The character she does the most for is Razor but she's fine on every team.

# ? Nov 25, 2020 19:48

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# ? May 25, 2024 22:51

nessin: Feb 7, 2010

No Wave posted:

Cryo DPS just doesnt seem that good. Two of the reactions are superconduct and frozen (awkward and awkward) and they get the worse side of melt. She could be nice with Xiangling though I suppose, even better than Childe.

Frozen is fine so long as your DPS unit is a claymore user, which is why Chongyun and XQ are a crazy good combo. Nothing awkward about it.

# ? Nov 25, 2020 19:56

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