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This season would have been way better and moments like that more impactful if Gaetano had just been friends with Josto to begin with. And the Mormon cop..never existed?
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Nov 23, 2020 06:47
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Herostratus posted:This may be intentional. It seems like this season went out of its way to de-romanticize crime and make criminals seem inept, buffunish, hypocritical and full of false garandeur. There is nothing like the mystical evil of previous seasons, only dumb evil people doing dumb evil things. I'm just gonna repaet that. Gaetano's death is yet more evidence. Most of the criminals this season are clowns, playing their roles in a farce only they can't see.They just killed a main character by basically having him step on a bannana peel. It's also why they cast a stand up comic in another main role. Beats me where they're going with this, though.
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Nov 23, 2020 11:07
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Welp
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Nov 23, 2020 19:36
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I had to laugh out loud at the cop just being Richard Harrow again. Fantasy of a women he loves in soft lighting while dying was almost exactly the same, and that's on top of all the other similarities.
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Nov 23, 2020 21:52
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Lister posted:I had to laugh out loud at the cop just being Richard Harrow again. Fantasy of a women he loves in soft lighting while dying was almost exactly the same, and that's on top of all the other similarities. Dude just the most idiotic death ever too, cant start his car, drops his gun. Perfect Fargo death.
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Nov 24, 2020 02:16
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Haha I was skimming the thread and read “being Richard Harrow again” and closed the thread immediately since I hadn’t seen the episode, but I assumed the poster meant being a sharpshooting badass, not silly mcbilly. I just finished Mr. Mercedes s2 and Jack Huston popped up in that show too.
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Nov 24, 2020 05:31
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Herostratus posted:I'm just gonna repaet that. Gaetano's death is yet more evidence. Most of the criminals this season are clowns, playing their roles in a farce only they can't see.They just killed a main character by basically having him step on a bannana peel. It's also why they cast a stand up comic in another main role. But you're saying this in response to me saying that the show is pretty unengaging, to which the idea that they're supposed to be that way is ridiculous. "Liking" a character just means we find them compelling, charismatic or memorable for some reason. The Sopranos was also a show about de-romanticizing criminals, but since we understand everyone's goals and the stakes, it's much more engaging! Let's take this episode: The scene where Gaetano kills Odis and then himself was shot well, edited well and was fairly surprising, but it lacks any real impact because not only is there nobody to root for, I have no idea what these guys are even supposed to be doing. What is the future in this universe for Odis or Gaetano? Odis is barely a character! The one scene that seemed to define him more happened when he killed Deafy, and then his next big act is being shot in his car. We as an audience have to be able to imagine a reason for Odis getting out of that car (or a compelling reason reason for being in it) for us to feel anything over his death. Gaetano clumsily shooting himself is funny, it's ironic, but he's playing a character archetype that is obviously going to meet his end on-screen, so it was just a matter of how. Doing nothing else with his death seems like a waste. I'd be much less frustrated by this show if this stuff was happening earlier in the season, but this was the penultimate episode. When Ethelrida and her mom were talking about the ghost on the porch I was reminded a lot of True Detective season 3, where it withheld every single revelation for the end of the season instead of giving us a reason to care about the events early on. Also: why the hell would a paranoid cop that knows he’s being watched by people who explicitly want to kill him go back home by himself. Was it brought up before that this guy had a single digit IQ? I thought he seemed at least normally competent. Mullitt fucked around with this message at 06:21 on Nov 24, 2020 |
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Nov 24, 2020 05:52
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Everyone in this season is Cannon Fadda.
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Nov 24, 2020 23:58
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Gaetano's death was great and Satchel's "No to you" speech was outstanding.
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Nov 25, 2020 01:46
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I really don't get why obtaining the elder Fada's ring would be meaningful to Loy and I absolutely hate the trope of an adult listening to a precocious child without questioning. It's not the one ring we're talking about here - it has no magical properties. Who would give a poo poo about this? If a literal child were saying anything to me I would not take them seriously even for a heartbeat - let alone if they said they had solved my gang war problems.
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Nov 26, 2020 04:02
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Fartington Butts posted:Everyone in this season is Cannon Fadda.  Moltke posted:I really don't get why obtaining the elder Fada's ring would be meaningful to Loy
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Nov 26, 2020 04:33
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Fartington Butts posted:Everyone in this season is Cannon Fadda. Lol. Moltke posted:I really don't get why obtaining the elder Fada's ring would be meaningful to Loy and I absolutely hate the trope of an adult listening to a precocious child without questioning. Well, I assumed the plan was "tell the Faddas their father didn't die of natural causes, but was murdered, deliver them the assassin, and use that to leverage a peace deal". Like, to the honor bound mafia avenging the death of the patriarch should be worth something. Granted that Loy isn't aware, but now with Gaetano dead the other one may be willing to put this war behind them.
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Nov 26, 2020 04:41
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with gaetano gone isnt this the deal josto wanted first? peace with loy and gaetano gone.
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Nov 26, 2020 04:45
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Moltke posted:I really don't get why obtaining the elder Fada's ring would be meaningful to Loy and I absolutely hate the trope of an adult listening to a precocious child without questioning. The ring combined with the idea that it was found with a nurse that kills her patients shows that the head of the Fadda family didn't die from his wound but was murdered, which is a big enough piece of information that they would end the war to get it. The fact that Orietta was just arrested for poisoning someone gives the idea credibility.
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Nov 26, 2020 04:46
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I feel like delivering their father's killer would have been more effective of a peace talk catalyst before Cannon, you know, brought in a bunch of Fargo goons who killed their mother.
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Nov 26, 2020 05:18
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ShakeZula posted:I feel like delivering their father's killer would have been more effective of a peace talk catalyst before Cannon, you know, brought in a bunch of Fargo goons who killed their mother. Josto has to keep up the pretence that Jerusalem fucked around with this message at 06:07 on Nov 26, 2020 |
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Nov 26, 2020 05:27
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The last episode is just gonna be Josto eating a piece of steak in the grossest possible zoom shot for 50 minutes.
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Nov 26, 2020 15:29
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This season has been improving, definitely a few too many characters but seems to be coming together. I like the running gag of how Josto has no control of little things. Like he still hates his big chair but won’t make the effort to get it replaced, or how the alderman was able to walk into his office during an important meeting, contrasted with Cannon having attentive guards.
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Nov 26, 2020 16:32
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Did Josto get his son back? I feel like I blinked and missed it if so.
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Nov 26, 2020 18:24
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Josto doesn’t have a son, Zero is his brother. I think he’s still in the hands of Chris Rock and them. Was Gaetano’s last scene a reference to another Coen bros movies? The only time I ever saw that happen to someone was in Out Of Sight, but I don’t think that had a Coen connection.
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Nov 26, 2020 20:14
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ruddiger posted:Josto doesn’t have a son, Zero is his brother. I think he’s still in the hands of Chris Rock and them. Yeah, Loy ALMOST killed him, there's that kind of terrifying, almost Shining-like scene where he's waiting outside the bathroom to murder him and in the end he can't bring himself to do it. ruddiger posted:Was Gaetano’s last scene a reference to another Coen bros movies? The only time I ever saw that happen to someone was in Out Of Sight, but I don’t think that had a Coen connection. Not a direct 1:1 but in Intolerable Cruelty, a terrifying assassin with asthma gets blinded and accidentally picks up his gun thinking it is his inhaler and... welp.
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Nov 26, 2020 22:45
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Moltke posted:I really don't get why obtaining the elder Fada's ring would be meaningful to Loy and I absolutely hate the trope of an adult listening to a precocious child without questioning. There are actually a few types of rings that hold some kind of power. A classic is a/the families sigil ring which enables all who wear one to sign contracts or seal official letters/documents in the name of the family (or a house or a a governmental body, while those are usually not rings but rather stamp like things), by pressing it into molten sigil wax. Another one is the "ring of the patriarch" which is usually owned by the eldest male of the family until death and then gets passed on to the next male in line. The traditional place to wear it is the pinky finger on the left hand. The ring itself is usually gold with a huge easily recognizable stone or emerald without engravings, it is not supposed to be used in creating sigils. For practical reasons the stone/emerald is a very cheap one. I currently hold the ring of my family and once had it checked for its metal and emerald value, and it was estimated around 30€-50€. (It most likely has some historic value since it is very old, but I wouldn't sell it anyways. Edit: I am not very sentimental about it, for a good price I'd probably do actually.) Today this is not relevant anymore in most places -I guess the concept even offends a lot of people these day- but in the context of Fargo I'd expect that Josto Fadda really wants to have that ring for legitimacy. Edit: And now that I think of it, there was this scene where the dispute between the brothers was settled and Gaetano "kisses the ring" or in this case just the hand, because guess whats not there? Josto would have a hard time going to New York without the ring. And I interpret the scene with Loy more like he initially doesn't even consider agreeing to whatever she comes up with, just letting her dangle a little bit and seething inwardly, before he tells her whats actually going to happen. When he realizes what ring she has brought him everything changes. dogboy fucked around with this message at 20:28 on Nov 27, 2020 |
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Nov 27, 2020 18:52
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muscles like this! posted:The ring combined with the idea that it was found with a nurse that kills her patients shows that the head of the Fadda family didn't die from his wound but was murdered, which is a big enough piece of information that they would end the war to get it. The fact that Orietta was just arrested for poisoning someone gives the idea credibility. I could only see this as a real plan because Gaetano is dead and NY really wants to end the war - Loy is aware of neither detail. I don't see this as some inherently good a-ha plan that warrants the kind of treatment Loy gives it. That is - while there would certainly be interest in the killer of the Don from Josto's perspective, it's not really very much leverage to end a war that has seen dozens killed already, including family, and which Loy's side is losing. Josto even has Leon and his family coming into town to kill Loy for him. It's weak as poo poo. dogboy posted:There are actually a few types of rings that hold some kind of power. A classic is a/the families sigil ring which enables all who wear one to sign contracts or seal official letters/documents in the name of the family (or a house or a a governmental body, while those are usually not rings but rather stamp like things), by pressing it into molten sigil wax. If this is the route they go then the ending is completely unearned. At no point was any significance attached to the Don's ring on the show. No one even noticed it went missing for pete's sake. Moltke fucked around with this message at 04:05 on Nov 28, 2020 |
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Nov 28, 2020 03:55
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Moltke posted:If this is the route they go then the ending is completely unearned. At no point was any significance attached to the Don's ring on the show. No one even noticed it went missing for pete's sake. If I recall right, there's a scene after his death where the mother angrily accuses either Josto or Gaetano of stealing the ring from their dead father which leaves them both completely confused.
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Nov 28, 2020 04:04
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I'll have to go back and check that, but my point still stands. A throwaway line 9 episodes ago doesn't make it Sauron's ring.
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Nov 28, 2020 04:06
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are they planning on doing a season 5? because that was rough as hell technically a lot happened in that finale but it was 39 minutes and felt like 2/3 of it was b-roll and montages, there was a really weird feel to it all mostly what it did was make me want to go back and re-watch season 2
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Nov 30, 2020 06:12
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Yeah it was a bit clumsy editing-wise but I loved it all the same. That post-credits scene was also fantastic, and I hope we see more Milligan somewhere in season 5.
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Nov 30, 2020 11:21
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Kept waiting for some greater motivation behind the murdering nurse, whether it was a religious fervor or just masochism. Suppose they went w/ the later, but it'd be nice to get some insight to the why. Ethlerida was done wrong. Side-lined most of the season and her main contribution seemed to come with little struggle. I guess we knew the Italians were still in charge years later, but it did surprise me the "second class citizen" thesis of the season seems to have evaporated by this ep. Was assuming Gaetano being found dead next to the killed cop would mean more cops and anti-black anti-italian cops would show up and clean house with little effort, but I guess this works too. Still, if ya take it as a Mike Milligan backstory seems ok. Rabbi just killed it. Fargo still good, looking forward to season five.
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Nov 30, 2020 12:57
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This season had great performances, visuals, and individual scenes, but absolutely no structure or consistent overarching themes whatsoever. It literally is just “a bunch of things that happened”. It’s hard to call it actively bad when so many individual little things worked, but it didn’t cohere into a satisfactory whole at all. Definitely the weakest season so far
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Nov 30, 2020 15:43
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Escobarbarian posted:This season had great performances, visuals, and individual scenes, but absolutely no structure or consistent overarching themes whatsoever. It literally is just “a bunch of things that happened”. It’s hard to call it actively bad when so many individual little things worked, but it didn’t cohere into a satisfactory whole at all. Definitely the weakest season so far I think this is how I'm feeling. I enjoyed each episode well enough but now that it's done I'm just sitting here like, okay...
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Nov 30, 2020 16:30
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timp posted:I think this is how I'm feeling. I enjoyed each episode well enough but now that it's done I'm just sitting here like, okay... yeah, I had fun watching the season but it is a disappointment relative to the overall quality of the show before this (i really liked s3, too) i hope that, if they do more, they take a hard look at what went wrong here. obviously covid after you've shot (from what i understand) 2/3 of the season didn't help, but the problems were there before that
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Nov 30, 2020 16:58
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The finale really felt like nothing. Less than forty minutes and padded with slo-mo? I have to think Covid effected how they ended up putting everything together. The ghost sub-plot wasn't anything. Gaetano's death served zero purpose other than to leave Josto without backup. It's all style over substance and the style only felt interesting in Satchel and Rabbi's episode. This was a pretty bad season.
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Nov 30, 2020 19:52
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That was a very disappointing season. Completely flat.
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Nov 30, 2020 21:02
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Brigadier Sockface posted:That was a very disappointing season. Completely flat. As someone who eagerly devoured seasons 1, 2, and 3, I watched the first two episodes of s4...and basically kept up with the rest via recaps and this thread. Just couldn't work up any enthusiasm to watch the rest. That said, Jessie Buckley though 
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Dec 1, 2020 01:50
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eke out posted:are they planning on doing a season 5? because that was rough as hell This episode was filmed in like September and was kind of cludged together as well as they could. Notice how there were quite a few scenes where people weren't on screen at the same time.
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Dec 1, 2020 01:58
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That was alright. Wish they’d let Cannon live.. Best ep by far was Satchel & Rabbi on the road. Two of the best characters in a wacky motel with a cool ending. Needed way more of that. Updated season rankings: 2, 1, 4, 3.
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Dec 1, 2020 03:11
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This was just kind of sad. I feel like nobody's heart was in it. I did laugh really hard though with the episode starting with an "In Memoriam" section to pad out the already slight run time. Just a real lump of poo poo ending that didn't tie anything up in a satisfying way and also managed to repeat one of the dumbest scenes from the previous season (Mr. Wrench coming in and killing Emmett in the epilogue). I'm glad they spent time on the ghost in the last episode to have it do nothing here except kinda show up in a reflection. Real powerful film making. The best thing to come from all this though is it seems like Dean Learner might have been getting some work in the editing room: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iXi6SSgld0Q
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Dec 1, 2020 05:42
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Well it was better to me than S3 (which I stopped watching after a few episodes), but never got close to 1 or 2. Rock had a couple of decent speeches but ultimately felt miscast. I think "disjointed" really is the best word to describe the season. A lot of really interesting and well-done pieces, amounting to a whole lot of nothing.
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Dec 1, 2020 06:11
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I liked the mike milligan secret origin story stuff and wish it was tied to an otherwise more interesting or meaningful season
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Dec 1, 2020 06:30
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I also thought based on the first episode that the nurse was going to be more of a lorne malvo style vaguely-supernatural-but-not-really villain and I would have liked that more than her just being a character who is sort of loosely tied to the main plot and who disappears for episodes at a time and then gets shot in the head. I like that actress
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Dec 1, 2020 06:34
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