(Thread IKs:
Nuns with Guns)
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Sydin posted:So movies with "mature" themes often have gratuitous sex, violence, or swearing thrown in because that bumps the rating up to an "R" and makes adults more likely to show up for it, which conflates those superficial elements with something being "mature". It's not just limited to movies either: TV and video games suffer from the same problem. HBO is a particularly big offender: pretty much any prestige television they make throws in a ton of gratuitous nudity and swearing even when it doesn't serve the story whatsoever, presumably just to get an MA rating and drum up interest. You're touching on a few things here, but I think you're trying to prove too much. HBO doesn't add gratuitous nudity and swearing to their shows to get an MA rating. HBO gets their shows an MA rating to advertise that their shows have gratuitous nudity and swearing. The gratuitous nudity and swearing is the part people like! Likewise, "Batman but he says gently caress and shoots people" has been popular character since '86 Dark Knight Returns. I doubt Frank Miller felt that he was adding "artificial" mature elements to trick adults into liking it, so much that he wanted to tell a story where Batman said gently caress and shot a gun. And no doubt it was marketed as a less kiddy title, but beyond that it was successful because people liked reading about Batman saying gently caress and shooting a gun.
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Nov 26, 2020 05:35
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I don’t want rape. I just want head explosions. Is that so much to ask for?
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Nov 26, 2020 05:35
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CelticPredator posted:I don’t want rape. I just want head explosions. Is that so much to ask for? That's fine, but I think you're better off watching movies like Scanners instead of demanding they reinvent cartoon characters who are normally child friendly into that kind of thing IMO
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Nov 26, 2020 05:40
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Archer666 posted:Honestly I think that R-rated movies would work better for some heroes than others. Like for Wolverine, X-23, Constantine, all the heroes that ended up on Netflix and stuff like that. And not for stuff like the Fantastic Four or Justice League. Man, Constantine getting a decent working class bi-icon wizard prestige TV drama would be so fun...
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Nov 26, 2020 05:43
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Nuns with Guns posted:Man, Constantine getting a decent working class bi-icon wizard prestige TV drama would be so fun... Not before The Dresden Files gets another TV adaptation  .
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Nov 26, 2020 05:45
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Constantine potato is shot through grate that turns everything into identical CW drama french fries.
Terrible Opinions fucked around with this message at 05:49 on Nov 26, 2020 |
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Nov 26, 2020 05:45
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This question has been on my mind for months now, and so far googling hasn't giving me much in terms of updates. It is not Zack Snyder/Boogie/Spoony discourse. Has there been anything recent about the Angry Joe accusations? I can't seem to find anything other than the accusation and the legal speak Angry Joe posted about his version of events. I'd like to know more but so far it seems to be walled off by months of nothing. I browsed the threads often but I didn't see anything like ex Channel Awesome workers talking about it or anything. Even checking the precursory twitter of the accuser doesn't give me anything. So did it all just, not go anywhere?
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Nov 26, 2020 05:58
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Jamie Faith posted:That's fine, but I think you're better off watching movies like Scanners instead of demanding they reinvent cartoon characters who are normally child friendly into that kind of thing IMO Scanners isn’t that good, and you say demand but I think saying that if it’s a comic book character it’s simply for children is dismissive of the medium entirely. Which I don’t like comics much at all, but most of the characters people want R Rated have been so in the comics for a long time. There’s plenty of Batman comics filled with gore and violence and rape (didn’t that happen in The Killing Joke? I never read it.) So why can’t a movie be like that? There’s plenty of Batman movies you and anyone else can watch. What’s the issue if one or two films is really violent? Logan ended up being one of the most interesting X movies because of its tone and rating. Same with Deadpool. It wasn’t character says curse words and blood shoots out. There was more too it. More human. If the new Batman is rated r then I’m pretty excited about it. Now we don’t have to pretend Batman isn’t a horrible monster and he can actually inflict the real damage he actually does to people, but previous were too afraid to show.
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Nov 26, 2020 05:59
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The Killing Joke had an implication of sexual violence but nothing explicit on panel.CelticPredator posted:I don’t want rape. I just want head explosions. Is that so much to ask for?
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Nov 26, 2020 06:10
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CelticPredator posted:Scanners isn’t that good, and you say demand but I think saying that if it’s a comic book character it’s simply for children is dismissive of the medium entirely. See, that's the thing. I don't think saying something is for kids is dismissive of it or the medium as a whole.* Most of my favorite things in life: from One Piece to Star Wars, I would say, are for kids. And that's ok! I don't think "For kids = bad/frivolous" and "for adults = good/smart" A lot of kids media these days are actually way smarter and more mature than a lot of media made for adults. At least in reguards to the mainstream stuff. EDIT 4 YEARS LATER: That last line I wrote is so bad and embarrassing, I had to edit this post to say I obviously do not think this way anymore. For shame Jamie from 2020. *=also, I'm not saying ALL comic books or ALL super heroes are for kids. Like I said, there is stuff like Watchman which is obviously made for adults. But Batman and Superman are primarily characters for kids and that's ok IMO Sorry I did a bad job explaining what I meant. Jamie Faith fucked around with this message at 04:54 on Mar 19, 2024 |
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Nov 26, 2020 06:20
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That really isnt true about Batman or Superman though? I dont read comics but half the time I see Superman or Batman panels its Superman telling a suicidal girl off a ledge, or punching the joker through his chest. With batman it's his giant dong, or Joker ripping off his own face. I guess that's my point. They can be for everyone. And there's room for the characters to be light and edgy.
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Nov 26, 2020 06:28
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poo poo, I'd say Batman 89 and Returns are very very much not for kids. Even though I, as a kid, loved it.
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Nov 26, 2020 06:28
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Terrible Opinions posted:The Killing Joke had an implication of sexual violence but nothing explicit on panel.
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Nov 26, 2020 06:29
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Person asked if there was rape in the Killing Joke. I tried to answer the question. Nothing more my dude.
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Nov 26, 2020 06:32
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CelticPredator posted:That really isnt true about Batman or Superman though? I dont read comics but half the time I see Superman or Batman panels its Superman telling a suicidal girl off a ledge, or punching the joker through his chest. With batman it's his giant dong, or Joker ripping off his own face. I have to say this conversation is making a very poor argument that edgy interpretations of superheroes are not terrible dogshit.
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Nov 26, 2020 06:32
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CelticPredator posted:That really isnt true about Batman or Superman though? I dont read comics but half the time I see Superman or Batman panels its Superman telling a suicidal girl off a ledge, or punching the joker through his chest. With batman it's his giant dong, or Joker ripping off his own face.
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Nov 26, 2020 06:34
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And hey I'm not saying they aren't dogshit. I'm just saying there's room for dogshit!
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Nov 26, 2020 06:34
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CelticPredator posted:That really isnt true about Batman or Superman though? I dont read comics but half the time I see Superman or Batman panels its Superman telling a suicidal girl off a ledge, or punching the joker through his chest. With batman it's his giant dong, or Joker ripping off his own face. I don't see why we should care about being the same as the original work or appealing to an equivalent audience instead just judging a thing by it own merits. Any subject and tone can be done well some are just harder than others... That and seconding the whole "Batman were supposed to be just for kids" stuff all the people on google say it's at best originally for a wide audience that included kids. It doesn't make the Killing Joke not trash but doesn't make it left-flied when it comes to the subject. Especially since batman actually came out of a series based on hardboiled detective poo poo. Rockit fucked around with this message at 06:45 on Nov 26, 2020 |
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Nov 26, 2020 06:39
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Jamie Faith posted:Yeah, I am someone whos really grossed out by gore. While I do love action and stuff I tend to like more light-hearted violence like the kind of thing you see in James Bond games like Goldeneye where the silly, over the top but bloodless death animations just makes the bad guys look like virtual stuntmen putting on a good show. It's fun Yeah, I agree. I loved Ip Man and I'd be happy with things staying around that level. I don't want every movie to be like Fist of the North Star personally, but that's not what everyone else feels though, I'm just not watching it. Everyone's talking about kids being into violence and gore and Mortal Kombat and I vaguely remember that being a thing when I was younger but uh, what ages are people thinking of here? I'm assuming Patrick was talking about like, 6 or 7 when he was saying there's not really a kid oriented animated series around personally. And I'm curious what age everyone turned into a little gore freak about MK normally. Because I was totally oblivious about games on other systems since I only had a gameboy and nintendo 64
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Nov 26, 2020 06:46
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I'm one of the few people who turns off the gore in Gears of War, which makes everyone ragdoll around when they die. It's hilarious!
The way I look at it, there's enough gore and rape and all that awful stuff in real life. I don't need to see it in my escapist fictional stories. I'm not saying "ITS EVIL AND MUST BE CENSORED/DESTROYED". Nor am I saying no fictional stories should try to tackle said topics. I'm just saying I do not care for it and I tend to avoid that kind of thing.
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Ghostlight posted:
Acolytes of Horror makes some semi personal and thoughtful videos on mainly (surprise) horror. This time around it's about Annihilation. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EkV9O0_cJzs They also made a very good video on The Lighthouse. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yllMFY1Mb08 I only recommend watching either if you've seen the movies. Sarcopenia fucked around with this message at 08:07 on Nov 26, 2020 |
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Nov 26, 2020 07:04
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Jamie Faith posted:That's fine, but I think you're better off watching movies like Scanners instead of demanding they reinvent cartoon characters who are normally child friendly into that kind of thing IMO I mean, the alternative to making child-friendly properties grimdark is that we revive the trend in '80s and '90s where we take R-rated properties, and turn them into Saturday morning cartoon (Robocop, Rambo, Highlander, Police Academy, Mortal Kombat, Starship Troopers, James Bond, etc.)
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Nov 26, 2020 07:36
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Max Wilco posted:I mean, the alternative to making child-friendly properties grimdark is that we revive the trend in '80s and '90s where we take R-rated properties, and turn them into Saturday morning cartoon (Robocop, Rambo, Highlander, Police Academy, Mortal Kombat, Starship Troopers, James Bond, etc.) The loving Toxic Avenger got a cartoon.
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Nov 26, 2020 08:18
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Logan wasn't "mature" because there was more blood. It was mature because it dealt with aging, inadequacy, senescence and finding hope in new generations.
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Nov 26, 2020 08:41
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CelticPredator posted:And hey I'm not saying they aren't dogshit. I'm just saying there's room for dogshit! *admittedly I don't know the batman's dong bit. If there was in fact a good amazing story about batman's dong and you were doing a good and bad comparison apologies.
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Nov 26, 2020 08:56
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It's completely fine to make comic book or cartoon content for adults, so long as your definition of adult content doesn't begin or end with rampant cynicism.
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Nov 26, 2020 09:04
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Yeah I saw your post before I just ignored it. But whatever. I don’t read comics. I mentioned like 4 things I remembered from superhero comics that weren’t explicitly for kids. You can replace that with whatever else Superman did. I don’t know.
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Nov 26, 2020 09:04
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It'd just be nice to skip out on all the Fallout Equestrias for comics, based on a very infantile idea of what "for adults" means.
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Nov 26, 2020 09:10
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Schwarzwald posted:HBO doesn't add gratuitous nudity and swearing to their shows to get an MA rating. HBO gets their shows an MA rating to advertise that their shows have gratuitous nudity and swearing. The gratuitous nudity and swearing is the part people like! Sure but you can't deny that people also conflate those things with a show being "mature" even when those elements are actually used in a juvenile manner. GoT certainly has mature elements, but Jamie opening the door to reveal a bunch of half naked prostitutes who dogpile Tyrion while he makes jokes about the size of his dick is not one of them. Shows aimed at adults throw in gratuitous elements and while there is undeniable natural attraction to gratuity, it also reinforces to audiences that nudity/violence/etc = mature even when it isn't used in such a manner. I guess if anything I'm critiquing our country's puritan bullshit. Take something like the original Dragonball, which is very clearly aimed at children. It has sex jokes and full frontal nudity that - because they're entirely juvenile in nature - are perfectly fine to publish in a Japanese serial aimed at kids/teenagers, but over here would either have to be censored or slapped with a mature content warning. Gating off boobs and blood and bad words as things only adults should experience creates a media perception that those things are "mature" when they really aren't that intrinsically.
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Nov 26, 2020 09:44
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Annointed posted:This question has been on my mind for months now, and so far googling hasn't giving me much in terms of updates. It is not Zack Snyder/Boogie/Spoony discourse. Don't believe it went anywhere at all. Doesn't look like it will either, I'm not sure where else it could go.
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Nov 26, 2020 10:01
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Annointed posted:This question has been on my mind for months now, and so far googling hasn't giving me much in terms of updates. It is not Zack Snyder/Boogie/Spoony discourse. OH! This reminds me, is there anything new about what the heck was going on with Dr. disrespect?
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Nov 26, 2020 11:21
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Nuns with Guns posted:Man, Constantine getting a decent working class bi-icon wizard prestige TV drama would be so fun... Yes it would. As would a Shade The Changing Man adaption shot in the same way as Legion. Also I thought it was kinda funny that the video used a quote from James Gunn, who himself made a very good R-Rated superhero movie: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FNfMq5BwYcE
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Nov 26, 2020 11:36
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Speaking of Killing Joke, the book would be better without the shooting scene. Not just because it's not a good scene, but also I think there is some really interesting stuff in that story despite Moore's disowning of it, and all anyone EVER wants to talk about, whether they're fans or detractors, is that scene. It has completely overshadowed the book and no one seems to care about anything else in the story. I also find the way we look at this slightly strange. The light/dark, adults/kids dichotomy isn't as clear cut as I think a lot of this is made out to be. The MCU is held up as the suitable and good vanguard but I'd argue some of those suffer from what the majority of big budget action films do, which is a worldview where human life seems to hold little value. To be honest I think it's a shame that Batman, Superman and Spider-Man were always the guys who valued life and their recent cinematic counterparts are all killers. Spider-Man less so but I didn't like the "activate instant kill", and his schmoozing up to Stark who is very relaxed about killing is weird to me. All those films were PG-13 which implies that the rating system is broken anyway. I'd argue that an R rated Batman film that actually showed that killing is an awful thing, is more appropriate than a PG-13 one that portrays it as awesome. Really all the MPAA cares about is how much red is on screen.
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Nov 26, 2020 11:49
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Karloff posted:I'd argue that an R rated Batman film that actually showed that killing is an awful thing, is more appropriate than a PG-13 one that portrays it as awesome. Really all the MPAA cares about is how much red is on screen. After watching it, I though that if Man of Steel had actually dwelt on Zod's murder by Superman, and all the awfulness that killing someone with your bare hands brings, they could have used it as the thing that cements the sanctity of life in Superman's head and ensures he would always to to absurd lengths to never kill.
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Nov 26, 2020 12:07
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i think the harley quinn show is pretty good even though it's an extremely gratuitous splatterfest, it's like a pure platonic form of the idea of an edgy irreverent superhero spinoff but somehow actually pulls it off. i think one of the keys to how it works is the cast is very likeable and not dour brooding wretches so you're inclined to root for their goals if not their methods. Catgirl Al Capone fucked around with this message at 12:16 on Nov 26, 2020 |
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Nov 26, 2020 12:14
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Max Wilco posted:I mean, the alternative to making child-friendly properties grimdark is that we revive the trend in '80s and '90s where we take R-rated properties, and turn them into Saturday morning cartoon (Robocop, Rambo, Highlander, Police Academy, Mortal Kombat, Starship Troopers, James Bond, etc.) Honestly that sounds like fun.
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Nov 26, 2020 13:02
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Some of my favourite batman comics (Morrison/Quitely/Burnham run, Gotham Central, Black Mirror), if adapted 1:1 in depiction of violence and themes would not have fit in PG-13 mold so yeah, I am all for R-rated cape movies. Willems misses that comics to films lose a lot in trasition due to rating guidelines and even stuff from classic X-Men comics would be too rough for international-friendly framework that Marvel Studios works in these days. Twitter idiots are twitter idiots but I understand their frustration when even Suicide Squad fights oily zombies and Laser Shooting Into the Sky instead of human soldiers
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Nov 26, 2020 13:33
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Kim Justice posted:Don't believe it went anywhere at all. Doesn't look like it will either, I'm not sure where else it could go. Man, that sucks that we'll never get a definite answer. I canceled my Patreon of Angry Joe over it, and thought I would either resume it or keep it away permanently if it ever got resolved further than the initial accounts.
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Nov 26, 2020 15:24
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Arist posted:One of my big pet peeves is people wanting things meant for children to be more "adult," which generally manifests itself in extremely superficial ways like swearing, gore, lack of humor, etc. It's (ironically) an incredibly childish impulse, a refusal to accept the things one grew up with not growing up with them. There's nothing wrong with enjoying silly things, and going "well, children enjoy gratuitous sex and violence too!" could not possibly be missing the point any harder. Well a lot of those guys are kinda stuck in that junior high/high school idea of what “adult” is. I had that stage and it was cringe as poo poo. Some people never Or can’t grow out of it. CYBEReris posted:i think the harley quinn show is pretty good even though it's an extremely gratuitous splatterfest, it's like a pure platonic form of the idea of an edgy irreverent superhero spinoff but somehow actually pulls it off. Yeah, it’s just like venture bro’s in that regard too. Which is probably why I like it. Jamie Faith posted:Yeah, I am someone whos really grossed out by gore. While I do love action and stuff I tend to like more light-hearted violence like the kind of thing you see in James Bond games like Goldeneye where the silly, over the top but bloodless death animations just makes the bad guys look like virtual stuntmen putting on a good show. It's fun Makes sense. Everyone has their own limits on what they can stomach and that’s a good thing. Like weirdly super graphic super serious anime and movies and poo poo usually turn me off but games are mostly fine for me because it’s active media and that makes me not feel bad or something. Also I don’t care for super drawn out poo poo. Like let’s watch some dude get torn apart for 10 min. Give me quick hosed up violence like Tarantino or new doom, or etc.
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Nov 26, 2020 17:38
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I don't think there's anything inherently wrong with superheroes saying bad words and having blood and stuff but at the same time the dark and gritty adaptation has become such a fixation with companies that it's honestly gotten out of hand. I think there's a problem when it's gotten to the point that you see stuff like the Avatar The Last Airbender creators leaving production of the live action adaptation because Netflix fat-out refuses not to make it R-Rated.
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Nov 26, 2020 17:52
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Terrible Opinions posted:Constantine potato is shot through grate that turns everything into identical CW drama french fries. I would accept trashy CW Constantine too. Heck, let's do both at the same time. Make them fight out in a cage match for who can get the best disaster garbage drama going. Archer666 posted:Yes it would. This is all making me wonder if the Doom Patrol show is any good now. Shame it's locked up on a streaming service nobody uses. CelticPredator posted:I dont read comics but half the time I see Superman or Batman panels its Superman telling a suicidal girl off a ledge, or punching the joker through his chest. With batman it's his giant dong, or Joker ripping off his own face. Here, I'll give you a quick rundown: Marvel and DC comics have been in a constant tug-of-war for the past 50 years regarding how to address the potential for fascism and Randian power fantasies since it became possible to say the quiet part loud, and how ironically or unironically to embrace/reject that. The two examples you're pulling are from two opposite poles of that struggle: Grant Morrison making a sincere tribute and execution of an optimistic hero's story in All-Star Superman because he feels superheroes shouldn't be limited to miserable or grim stories and is fascinated with their role as inspirational icons. The Bat-Dong is from Brian Azzarello's Batman: Damned, which was DC's attempt at a "mature" label comics in the same vein as Marvel's MAX comics, which tells you a lot about what most comic writers see as important in a mature comic. But then, this isn't out of line with how most pop media treats "maturity" and is more of a reflection on our own shallow understanding of the divide between "childish" and "mature" and our irrational personal anxieties around things we consider immature. So basically every comic* since the Bronze Age (of comics aka the 1970s) has had to do a bit of navel-gazing and address how serious they want to be and communicate that constantly in the comic itself and how to address the role of superheroes within the universe itself, and anyone who thinks modern cynical superhero movies are breaking some new ground here is a Fake Fan who should be driven into the ocean to live among the other Precambrian lifeforms. *I'm saying "comic" here but I mean the cape comics from the Big Two and anyone splashing in that same shallow pool. Also, I don't really want anyone driven into the ocean for not reading comics. Nuns with Guns fucked around with this message at 17:58 on Nov 26, 2020 |
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Nov 26, 2020 17:54
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