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lol, she literally said "drain the swamp".
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Nov 22, 2020 18:42
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To borrow a saying from a friend of mine: Amerikansk Svinehund. American Pigdog, but in Danish
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Nov 22, 2020 19:55
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Fader Movitz posted:https://www.dn.se/ekonomi/hemleverans-av-alkohol-fran-restauranger-tillats-i-malmo/ cool. bolagets delivery system is awful tbh.
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Nov 23, 2020 01:33
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von Braun posted:cool. bolagets delivery system is awful tbh. Im not a fan of kommunpolitker deciding they can make their own laws. I've worked for kommuner for too long to find their schemes funny anymore. but yeah, systemets delivery is ridiculously bad, which i guess is the point
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Nov 23, 2020 01:47
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How is it a point? Vinmonopolet in Norway survives by providing a truly excellent service. Being popular is the only way of staving off being gutted, privatized or "exposed to competition" these days.
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Nov 23, 2020 04:17
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The point of systemet is to make money for the government and make it harder to buy alcohol. Systembolaget is pretty good store, and I don't mind that they're a state run monopoly. If I could change anything it'd be their opening hours and some tax details but that's for riksdagen and not systemet to legislate. Their home delivery service is expensive and annoying which seems to serve the point of making people buy less alcohol.
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Nov 23, 2020 05:41
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With some incidental inside knowledge my impression is that Systembolagets home delivery suffers from having been a glorified angsty test run for 6 years. Mostly used by companies and for parties and rich lazy ppl. It did not suffer exposure to Corona and actual real customer needs well. I suspect its being redesigned and recontracted or something soon. Threadkiller Dog fucked around with this message at 10:32 on Nov 23, 2020 |
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Nov 23, 2020 10:29
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Foodora + Systembolaget partnership when?
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Nov 23, 2020 10:35
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Either that or IOGT-NTO!
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Nov 23, 2020 10:37
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Konec Hry posted:Foodora + Systembolaget partnership when? Leverans samma dag från systemet är rimligt
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Nov 23, 2020 12:12
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At least there's no Corona in mah liver -All of Finland.
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Nov 23, 2020 17:51
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Swedish politics has been so weird lately. S barely survived the last election. And spent every day since alienating their remaining voters with neoliberalism. On the other hand the Alliance was completely obliterated and the Alliance parties that sided with S are growing weaker every month as obviously their voters were specifically voting against an S government. But then these voters will have left for other right wing parties I expect SD collecting a ton of extra voters but that's no good unless the moderates are willing to ally with them.
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Nov 23, 2020 18:04
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Neoliberalism is one hell of a drug. Remember folks, teach your kids to not try neoliberalism even once, no matter how cool their friends say it is.
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Nov 23, 2020 19:15
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What’s this thing about Reformisterna Is that a large force in S? I read Sjöstedt’s appeal for them to join with V which I assume is a pipe dream
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Nov 23, 2020 20:10
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Katt posted:I expect SD collecting a ton of extra voters but that's no good unless the moderates are willing to ally with them. I fully expect M to commit to an SD alliance following the next election, if it puts them into power. The old Alliance has been busted up and the compassionate neoliberals (C, L) are withering away in S's shadow, while the hardliners (M, KD) are doing fine and, at least on a local level, openly cooperating with SD. david_a posted:What’s this thing about Reformisterna I have no in-depth knowledge but they are clearly not making any headway in actual policy. I admire people like Daniel Suhonen who keep fighting the good fight but I do not expect them to have any major impact in the foreseeable future.
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Nov 24, 2020 01:44
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Beeswax posted:I fully expect M to commit to an SD alliance following the next election, if it puts them into power. The old Alliance has been busted up and the compassionate neoliberals (C, L) are withering away in S's shadow, while the hardliners (M, KD) are doing fine and, at least on a local level, openly cooperating with SD. Yeah M knows that their main path to power is with SD and KD now. They'll offer Åkesson and Busch power over the social policy to throw red meat to their supporters, in exchange for M taking over the financial policy to repay their taskmasters. You've seen this already with SD quickly drowning their remaining anti-corporate policies from their more general populist roots, such as a limit to profits in private wellfare companies, in the bathtub the moment they were offered a small opening of the door to power. SD pretty much just needed a few meeting between them and Svenskt Näringsliv back in 2015-16 to kneel to the capital and clearly adopt a more traditional right wing economic policy. They were very willing to become a more conservative party once they realized that the company lobbyists don't care about anti-immigrant politics as long as you don't directly threaten their profits. So M will finally get the chance to have the prime minister post, in exchange for letting the browner part of the right act as the powers behind the throne. lilljonas fucked around with this message at 08:50 on Nov 24, 2020 |
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Nov 24, 2020 08:43
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david_a posted:What’s this thing about Reformisterna They number a few thousand and have been kinda lost their momentum in the last year (or at least, that's what S-gossipers tell me). They're too Stockholm-heavy to ever pull off any kind of inside coup and for change to happen naturally a window of opportunity first has to present itself. The interesting figure with Reformisterna isn't Suhonen, it's Markus Kallifatides.
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Nov 24, 2020 08:54
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lilljonas posted:Yeah M knows that their main path to power is with SD and KD now. They'll offer Åkesson and Busch power over the social policy to throw red meat to their supporters, in exchange for M taking over the financial policy to repay their taskmasters. You've seen this already with SD quickly drowning their remaining anti-corporate policies from their more general populist roots, such as a limit to profits in private wellfare companies, in the bathtub the moment they were offered a small opening of the door to power. SD pretty much just needed a few meeting between them and Svenskt Näringsliv back in 2015-16 to kneel to the capital and clearly adopt a more traditional right wing economic policy. They were very willing to become a more conservative party once they realized that the company lobbyists don't care about anti-immigrant politics as long as you don't directly threaten their profits. So M will finally get the chance to have the prime minister post, in exchange for letting the browner part of the right act as the powers behind the throne. I wonder if any of the social support I have is going to remain in a couple of years and I'm much better off than a lot of the other people needing it. 
Poil fucked around with this message at 12:02 on Nov 24, 2020 |
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Nov 24, 2020 11:04
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I am like legitimately curious how the next Norwegian parliamentary elections (next year) are going to play out, because we're beginning to see what seems, to me at least, to be a major political realignment in trends reflected in polls for something like almost 2 years by now and which does not seem to stop. Article about latest poll There's multiple things happening, perhaps the most important is that Arbeiderpartiet (Labor) looks like they are solidly and perhaps permanently losing the grip they had on the left and center-left, that they even still muster around 20% is kind of incredible, as they've shown next to no introspection about their waning prospects or their policies, as well as with how their image has been soiled by the Metoo stuff happening around some of their once-prominent members, especially with how they (or rather the local party organization in Trøndelag) earlier this year tried to bring the guy at root of it all, Trond Giske, back into the light. They're also hurt by defections to Senterpartiet of not only voters, but also politicians, such as prominent Oslo politician, Jan Bøhler, whch was not made better by many in the party using hyperbolic langauge to refer to it, "the biggest betrayal in political history" (or something along those lines). Also doesn't help Jonas Gahr Støre is the most boring, beige piece of humanity imaginable, at this point representing much of what's wrong with the party. The other piece of the puzzle is Senterpartiet (Center Party) shooting up, like they've been doing in basicall every poll since the last election, feeding off discontent in the districts with centralization and the New Public Management typically championed by both Høyre and Arbeiderpartiet. While they earlier worked with Ap in a coalition government (together with SV, the Socialist Left Party) as a junior partner, they are now looking more and more like an equal partner, though one whose rise largely does not benefit Ap that much as they are cannibalizing their voters most of all, Ap can't really hope to govern without Sp, and Sp has repeatedly indicated that they will not go into government with the Greens or any of the other left-wing parties. As for what Sp is, I think they are kind of hard to categorize politically, except as populists or nationalists who are nominally on the left side of Norwegian politics, their recent gains, even looking to make inroads in working class districts in Oslo looks to make them less of the "agrarian populists" they used to be more and more like general populist protest party focused on the districts and traditional Ap voters in the north and interior of the country. Also on the left you can tell the erosion of Arbeiderpartiets traditional power in the rise Rødt to actual relevance (simply "Red", formerly a communist party, now more of a democratic socialist thing I'd say) and SV maintaining solid support (Socialist Left Party, also democratic socialists, typically seen as not as far to the left as R, though honestly the two have alot of things in common, though sometimes differ a bit on what they like to focus on the most) and MDG (the Greens) wavering a bit, but still relevant. Unlike before it seems very likely that these parties' supporters will actually stick with them and no longer "tactically" vote for Arbeiderpartiet in parliamentary elections. As mentioned the three of them don't really get along well with Senterpartiet, and it will be interesting to see what kind of potential governing coalition the Norwegian left can muster up, if they can do it at all. On the right, Høyre (Conservative Party) looks poised to cement their overtaking of Arbeidepartiet as the largest party in the parliament, and though they're kind of stagnating in this poll their handling of the coronavirus pandemic has generally been perceived as pretty on the ball, rewarding them by at least not bleeding supporters. Meanwhile their two partners on the center right, Venstre ("Left", the Liberals) and KrF (Christian People's Party) are lookign like spent forces, both have suffered from being associated with FrP through their participating on the government, KrF is also dealing with an internal rebellion over that issue and the distaste many of their members feel over the governments policies regarding refugees and other issues deemed important to them, they've even spawned a new splinter party, Sentrum, which has drawn off many of their members, including several prominent ones (though notably their leader is a defector from Ap). Venstre's demise I can't pin as clearly on anything specific (beyond the assocaition with the far right FrP) other than the party just being a useless relic, and I doubt they're going to come up with any better strategy going forwards than possibly decriminalization of weed, which really just isn't an issue a lot of people even care about in Norway. Far-right anti-immigrant FrP continues to slowly decline to basically where Senterpartiet once used to be as regards size and number of supporters, despite having formally left the government back in January in protest against not doing Denmark stuff to women who had been married to ISIS fighters. I don't know if there's that much to say about them, their not a spent force by any means necessary, but they aren't what they were a couple of election cycles back. ... Got a bit carried away there. But I'm stuck at home and just started writing...
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Nov 25, 2020 09:01
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SP's coalition of voters is incredibly unstable and probably won't last unless there's a huge influx of fresh faces in positions of serious power. vedum's success has been papering over the cracks, but they're there and the contradictions are going to become obvious once they're in government they've gotten where they are by mobilising dissent over neoliberalism and globalisation, and by consistently and credibly opposing the government on issues of centralisation and actually opposing most of their bone-headed reforms. this is contrary to Labour's line, which was effectively to pretend they were still the government, which allowed the actual government to take them off the board by getting their assent on some of their baffling reforms that nobody really wants another side of this is that labour's party culture is looking totally degenerate and stupid right now, with multiple noisy spats over basically interchangeable individuals in various positions. i'd argue that the biggest liability is not their leader, but the general secretary, Kjersti Stenseng - i have no idea how she still has a job vedum has been largely immune to right-wing media hitjobs as well because of his centrist credentials and because the right doesn't want to alienate those swing voters that have been coming his way from them i have a hard time seeing the government getting reelected. hardly any of the stuff that they've done outside of looking vaguely competent has been popular, and the liberals and christian democrats look like they're finally going extinct faced with the Greens and old age stealing their core vote parallels may be drawn to the emergency accords between labour and the Peasants' Party (now SP) in the wake of the great depression - liberalism as a governing ideology has clearly failed, and the powers that be are refusing to admit it. the issue is that right now, the labour party is one of those powers, and their insane commitment to european integration especially is absolutely murdering their support in the actual labour movement, as well as their previously strong base in smaller industrial towns
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Nov 25, 2020 13:22
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It's an interesting coincidence that as the actual left became a lot more viable a bunch of libs moved one party to the right, kneecapping any potential leftist coalition. AP blowing themselves up was probably not as organized as when Labour did it in response to Corbyn; like, it probably is a coincidence, but Liberalism self-destructing to keep limping along just a few years longer, and very likely handing the reins to the right rather than moving a modicum to the left, is a global trend at this point
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Nov 25, 2020 13:53
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it's easy to forget now, but in the early days of his tenure, støre was polling north of 40% - the strategy was working very well until the right found an attack which stuck in turning his own intellectualism against him. the past several years have just been those wounds festering and the party showing itself to be increasingly decrepit
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Nov 25, 2020 13:58
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thotsky posted:It's an interesting coincidence that as the actual left became a lot more viable a bunch of libs moved one party to the right, kneecapping any potential leftist coalition. AP blowing themselves up was probably not as organized as when Labour did it in response to Corbyn; like, it probably is a coincidence, but Liberalism self-destructing to keep limping along just a few years longer, and very likely handing the reins to the right rather than moving a modicum to the left, is a global trend at this point Which party are you talking about here? Like with the context of who's draining voters of off who, I'd say it's Sp, but while I find it kind of hard to nail down exactly what they are, I'd say one of the things they definitely aren't are a Liberal party. It's not "the libs" who are jumping ship to Sp. V. Illych L. posted:SP's coalition of voters is incredibly unstable and probably won't last unless there's a huge influx of fresh faces in positions of serious power. vedum's success has been papering over the cracks, but they're there and the contradictions are going to become obvious once they're in government Yeah, they've been this big before when they've mobilized support over opposition to EU membership, then they shed it once the immediate protest has acheived its goals. At its core, Sp is really more of a protest party than anything extremely coherent, though at this point they are very much gaining ground, because as you hint it, they are a very credible protest party. V. Illych L. posted:i have a hard time seeing the government getting reelected. hardly any of the stuff that they've done outside of looking vaguely competent has been popular, and the liberals and christian democrats look like they're finally going extinct faced with the Greens and old age stealing their core vote Yeah I'm kind of on the same page as you here, because while H looks really strong, the overall support of parties on the right and center-right just doesn't really produce a situation where they can continue governing. The question then, and one I'm very curious about, is what would a new left-wing government look like? Who would participate, which parties in parliament would support it, because although Ap+Sp seems the most likely, it is looking much more difficult to do so than it would have been before, and I'm not sure an Ap+Sp government could reliably count on the support of R/SV/MDG.
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Nov 25, 2020 18:22
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it depends on the details of the election outcome i don't see sp+ap getting an outright majority outside of solberg completely loving up on something important and exploding over it. a really big case of crass corruption or something could do it, maybe minority sp+ap would be extremely vulnerable to getting hammered on some signature environmental issue, or they'll start bleeding support from among motorists, commuters and middle-class homeowners, that most fickle and potentially reactionary pool of voters sp+ap+sv would probably be a kiss of death to sv. R is much stronger than they were and in an excellent position to take advantage of the inevitable concessions that a junior partner has to make, as is MDG i can also see SP+AP+MDG working, with MDG getting some flashy concessions, but i get the impression that a lot of people have a sort of visceral loathing for MDG - a loathing which they, to be fair, haven't exactly tried to combat...
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Nov 25, 2020 18:37
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Randarkman posted:Which party are you talking about here? Like with the context of who's draining voters of off who, I'd say it's Sp, but while I find it kind of hard to nail down exactly what they are, I'd say one of the things they definitely aren't are a Liberal party. It's not "the libs" who are jumping ship to Sp. I meant SP, and like, fair, I thought about saying "people" because those still holding out for AP are not less libby than the ones who left. It was a somewhat confusing thing to say. However, consider that SP has not grown because we suddenly got a bunch more farmers in the country. They're making gains among centrist voters who like "sensible" politicians, are skeptical of identity politics, but fear and are embarrassed by the "extreme" right and left. Sure, it does not fit perfectly with any dictionary definition or ameri-centric Twitter conception of a lib, but in a Norwegian context that's still pretty classic I thought.
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Nov 25, 2020 20:35
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SP's main means of pulling voters from Ap has been anti-liberalism and euroskepticism with actual teeth, they are maybe the least liberal party on Stortinget except R
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Nov 25, 2020 20:49
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I know, but euroskepticism has been the norm for centrist Norwegian voters, if not their politicians, at least since we voted on joining the EU, with the notable exception being Venstre voters/libertarians. If SP really was such a huge departure from AP I don't think they would be bleeding voters to them. But I will admit I am equating centrism with liberalsm and that might be wrong.
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Nov 25, 2020 21:10
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vedum's strategy has been in part identifying where labour voters have been discontented and loudly staking out the appropriate position. this goes especially where labour have been adhering to market liberalism in making its decisions, as with Andøya and the - frankly baffling given the lack of stakes - ACER decision it's centrism, sure, but it is a rural, surly and pessimistic sort of centrism, not end-of-history liberal centrism
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Nov 25, 2020 21:17
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V. Illych L. posted:it's centrism, sure, but it is a rural, surly and pessimistic sort of centrism, not end-of-history liberal centrism I think this is an important point to bring home, Sp is not "centrist" in any way really that resembles how that word is used to in English language media and on this forum in a mostly American context. Sp is its own beast and their use of the term to refer to themselves probably owes more to old stuff like the German rural-catholic Zentrum* of the early 20th century than how it is used to refer to American social liberals. *But also not, because Sp isn't really Christian Democratic or such. Though they are definitely a kind of conservative, I'd also probably call them nationalist, though perhaps "localist" is a more accurate descriptor. Randarkman fucked around with this message at 21:55 on Nov 25, 2020 |
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Nov 25, 2020 21:48
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I am not convinced they're all that rural, or at least that this is what is appealing to new SP voters. It's part of their identity sure, and helpful because it's something easier to relate to than boring or scary ideology, but that's like MDG saying it is green. You don't have to be an animal rights activist to vote for MDG, nor are MDGs actual policies all that green, but who doesn't like nature? SP is making headway in Oslo for crying out loud, so I think it is more that they've been pretty good at selling the "we're the party for normal people" line that AP used to own. I also don't think most AP voters ever bought into the "end-of-history" liberal centrism bit. Like, a lot of AP voters will call themselves socialists if pressed even though they're all about capitalism. Norwegian centrism / liberalism is more about somewhat mixed economy, not thinking too much about ideology aside from respecting law and private property, and trusting the government to manage the harmful sides of capitalism. You kind of have to go to the AP leadership itself, or Venstre voters to get your classical technocrat, free market types.
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Nov 25, 2020 23:25
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thotsky posted:I am not convinced they're all that rural, or at least that this is what is appealing to new SP voters. It's part of their identity sure, and helpful because it's something easier to relate to than boring or scary ideology, but that's like MDG saying it is green. You don't have to be an animal rights activist to vote for MDG, nor are MDGs actual policies all that green, but who doesn't like nature? SP is making headway in Oslo for crying out loud, so I think it is more that they've been pretty good at selling the "we're the party for normal people" line that AP used to own. I also don't think most AP voters ever bought into the "end-of-history" liberal centrism bit. Like, a lot of AP voters will call themselves socialists if pressed even though they're all about capitalism. Norwegian centrism / liberalism is more about somewhat mixed economy, not thinking too much about ideology aside from respecting law and private property, and trusting the government to manage the harmful sides of capitalism. You kind of have to go to the AP leadership itself, or Venstre voters to get your classical technocrat, free market types. I'm not saying this at all. It's their origin and why they call tmeselves "Center", it's got nothing to do with contemporary centrist liberalism. A huuuge part of why they are poaching these voters is that they are harnessing discontent over central administration and the principles that's been guiding it (that is neo-liberal new public management) for the past decades, particularly exemplified now with what's happening to public services (county and municipal), hospitals, police, schools and jobs with the government's (and past governments laying the groundwork) centralization reforms. The voters they look to be getting in Oslo don't live downtown or in Frogner, they live Groruddalen, the voters Sp are poaching in the districts aren't farmers, their people who work in local industries or for the municipality, lots of union members, essentially Aps old core (though one which has gotten increasingly alienated from the party leadership). I'm not sure exactly what Sp's "solution" to any of these issues is, other than roll back some of the reforms, and I don't know if they have any. But there is definitely some appeal in them just unambigiously saying "gently caress that", "gently caress centralization", "gently caress your new public management", "gently caress your regional reform". I should know, I voted for them in 2017, pretty much purely out of anger and bafflement at the region reform, I'm not looking to repeat this and I'm somewhat ashamed of having voted for them, but I still see the appeal in what they're presenting.
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Nov 25, 2020 23:56
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Sure, but then it doesn't take a lot of brains to profit off of owning the image "we're the actual opposition" while AP remains a completely anonymous grey blob of neoliberal horseshit. AP is doing this to themselves. They should recognize the writing on the wall and toss the entire loving top managment but they won't because AP has been captured by the same technocratic and ideological "steady hand on the wheel regardless of crap policies" mechanism that's responsible for a lot of long-governing ostensibly left parties' downfall. Sp I don't trust. They are Høyre in sheep farmer's clothing and next election if they alone have a majority, I'd find it more likely they ally in government than AP without R, SV or Mdg.
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Nov 26, 2020 07:48
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SP can't really go into coalition with H without one of the parties going into a series of absurd surrenders which would totally outrage a huge chunk of their voter base. i don't see it - the upshot of SP taking a huge bite out of Labour is that they're doing it by monopolising opposition to a lot of unpopular stuff that the present government is doing. throwing all that out would be a huge betrayal to a lot of new voters
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Nov 26, 2020 09:08
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Randarkman posted:
That's more or less exactly what they are. When same sex marriage was legalized they were the biggest hurdle, they voted with KrF to ban twin abortion snd they want to keep the the nemd.
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Nov 26, 2020 13:00
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yeah i think the social conservatism is where labour ought to counterattack - Sp knows that they're vulnerable on abortion among a lot of their new potential voters, and making abortion a topic of debate again could bring some waverers back to labour. i think vedum realises this and is going to try very hard to avoid it, though - he's already tried to downplay it, as he does with environmental issues. he's still managing to play on niche party terms, though, a sign of how canny Sp's operators are
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Nov 26, 2020 14:39
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You had one job Denmark! Dead mink infected with a mutated form of COVID-19 rise from graves after mass culling quote:Mink infected with a mutated strain of COVID-19 in Denmark appear to be rising from the dead, igniting a national frenzy and calls from local officials to cremate mink carcasses.
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Nov 26, 2020 16:43
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Rincewinds posted:You had one job Denmark! This is like the start of a movie featured on Best of the Worst. I can see Mike Stoklasa laughing about how unrealistic the premise is in my mind's eye already.
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Nov 26, 2020 16:50
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V. Illych L. posted:yeah i think the social conservatism is where labour ought to counterattack - Sp knows that they're vulnerable on abortion among a lot of their new potential voters, and making abortion a topic of debate again could bring some waverers back to labour. i think vedum realises this and is going to try very hard to avoid it, though - he's already tried to downplay it, as he does with environmental issues. he's still managing to play on niche party terms, though, a sign of how canny Sp's operators are Historically AP has been more occupied with infighting than bringing back waverers. AP's slogan is basically "dead man's pointy shoes".
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Nov 26, 2020 18:45
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If abortion was 10% as explosive here as in yankeeland then that could work. But all vedum has to do is to say we support the current system like the vast majority of todays voteres. Now if you care about womens health we need to do something about all the closed maternity wards and the reduced service they provide. Getting an abortion or giving birth should be safe, no matter where you live in the world. As SP i sider i can say that times are changing on the social issues. Its mostly the oldest members who give a gently caress about church and conservative values, and they only grumble a little bit when my local chapter decides to focus on reversing local cuts to school and elder care rather than on cuts to church related matters.
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Nov 26, 2020 19:43
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SToOpvZ9Gb3NI11jRBVw tclotxZE0LhRGBgsn0dT kDNIw8YvOilCNz7ZaFxs RBRxSGBwppI12ZUPcENy zTYpCt4gWyX3qTkNKjze DuwBHN1RnNzW9utiYZwz EWdrVBHeWzn1CefNaHYr nQHzelIcEFAbXjHk7EWE q4on9lNJCUTSQ0aOhTCW 0VZDsXHEuHG8GcEvmStj Plasmafountain fucked around with this message at 23:48 on Feb 27, 2023 |
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Nov 26, 2020 19:54
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