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killing your comrades, gays, and anarchists is bad i have no opinion on other things.
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Nov 28, 2020 07:31
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I think it’s also bad to ban abortion and divorce they did some pretty great stuff too though. but Mao really should have shaved his head
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Nov 28, 2020 08:08
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Larry Parrish posted:i think if you are unable to defend stalin or mao, you have not actually read any history. but that's just my opinion. Yeah the unspoken implication I left off my post is that it doesn't work - people are going to smear you as a genocide denier regardless, so you might as well go to the mat and declare yourself an avowed communist.
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Nov 28, 2020 08:11
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gradenko_2000 posted:Yeah the unspoken implication I left off my post is that it doesn't work - people are going to smear you as a genocide denier regardless, so you might as well go to the mat and declare yourself an avowed communist. yeah if they can make Biden a socialist there’s no hiding behind carefully curated tendencies
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Nov 28, 2020 08:12
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gradenko_2000 posted:Yeah the unspoken implication I left off my post is that it doesn't work - people are going to smear you as a genocide denier regardless, so you might as well go to the mat and declare yourself an avowed communist. quote:There were several proposals concerning a correct name for the new organization. The word “socialist” was objected to in the title on the ground that it would frighten English-speaking workers; instead, either “United Workers of North America” or “Farmers and Workingmen's Party” was suggested. However, one commentator observed shrewdly: “In any case, we will be called communists regardless of what name we adopt.” This proved to be an accurate prediction. Enver Zogha fucked around with this message at 11:45 on Nov 28, 2020 |
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Nov 28, 2020 11:14
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Wuppertal, the birthplace of Engels, is about a 3 hour train ride from where I am. I had planned some time ago to visit for his big 200, as I did visit Trier 2 years ago for Marx's bicentennial. But it would be socially irresponsible to, under the circumstances. I would be a bad communist to do so. Alas...
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Nov 28, 2020 11:48
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T-man posted:killing your comrades, gays, and anarchists is bad What's the practical implication of something being "bad" though? I would argue that almost nothing can be derived from these sorts of commonsense moral judgment and they just confuse people, including the person who makes the claim. In the end, anyone serious is compelled to explain why they support people who did or do bad things. Let's take Barack Obama supporters. There's the weasely liberal method that tries to ignore the bad things he did or blame them on others. There's the whataboutist method that acknowledges them but claims that criticism harms unity against worse people. There's the jingoist method that claims that actually the bad things were good and it's naive to think otherwise. And so on and so forth. Ultimately, it's all ad hoc bullshit. The bullshit only works out for Obama because he has a massive propaganda machine behind him, and the question is actually a trap designed to favor people like him over others without the same kind of machine. It doesn't actually make sense to engage on a battlefield set up by the enemy unless you get caught in a trap or you actually want to impress the enemy instead of destroying it. Winners pose their own questions, in a way that favors the conclusions they want people to draw.
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Nov 28, 2020 16:20
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i think it's ok to kill people in general, which i understand is a controversial take. i just dont support the dictatorship of the bourgeoisie being allowed to do it.
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Nov 28, 2020 17:39
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there was drama in a big red-black fb group because the anarchists all agreed killing the romanov kids was bad
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Nov 28, 2020 17:56
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to add on Larry's point, I've been called a hypocrite for supporting prison abolition while being theoretically fine with labor camps for counter-revolutionaries or w/e after some kind of revolution. "you're just fine with violence if it's your team doing it," is logic I don't buy at all. I guess it also goes back to that "if you punch richard spencer you're a nazi too" drivel
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Nov 28, 2020 18:02
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i say swears online posted:"you're just fine with violence if it's your team doing it," arguing like the guy on the right-hand side of that meme makes winning on the internet so easy
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Nov 28, 2020 18:04
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deal from strength or get crushed every time is true
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Nov 28, 2020 18:05
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gradenko_2000 posted:arguing like the guy on the right-hand side of that meme makes winning on the internet so easy lol what this guy? 
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Nov 28, 2020 18:06
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 i say swears online posted:to add on Larry's point, I've been called a hypocrite for supporting prison abolition while being theoretically fine with labor camps for counter-revolutionaries or w/e after some kind of revolution. "you're just fine with violence if it's your team doing it," is logic I don't buy at all. I guess it also goes back to that "if you punch richard spencer you're a nazi too" drivel  I am fine with violence when it is violence of a proletarian state.
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Nov 28, 2020 18:36
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uncop posted:What's the practical implication of something being "bad" though? I would argue that almost nothing can be derived from these sorts of commonsense moral judgment and they just confuse people, including the person who makes the claim. if I am deemed to be a counter-revolutionary bourgeois sympathizer because I am queer (as it has happened), wouldn't that be very bad to my life?
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Nov 28, 2020 18:58
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If capitalism has taught us anything, it's the importance of branding. The "communist" brand has bee sufficiently sullied here is the States and you can either fight an uphill against it, or just rebrand to some like the United Workers of America and coop some of that sweet, sweet patriotism. Take a lesson from the cryptofascists: if they hate your label, change it and sell the same stuff.
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Nov 28, 2020 20:44
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uncop posted:What's the practical implication of something being "bad" though? I would argue that almost nothing can be derived from these sorts of commonsense moral judgment and they just confuse people, including the person who makes the claim. lot of words to say "i think ethics is just branding" buddy
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Nov 28, 2020 20:50
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Cpt_Obvious posted:If capitalism has taught us anything, it's the importance of branding. The "communist" brand has bee sufficiently sullied here is the States and you can either fight an uphill against it, or just rebrand to some like the United Workers of America and coop some of that sweet, sweet patriotism. no the lesson is they will call you communists anyway. additionally if you are a communist and you try to conceal that for branding, then the more informed people who may be interested, might then be put off by cynical misrepresentation
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Nov 28, 2020 20:55
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Larry Parrish posted:I am fine with violence when it is violence of a proletarian state. such as against LGBT and ethnic minorities. It’s good when the red team does it
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Nov 28, 2020 20:57
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cant believe i never noticed "and lads, you know we're gonna kill all the gays" at the end of all my favorite communist literature
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Nov 28, 2020 21:03
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it's what happened in the past, and then you have the "i ❤️ murder (for team communism)" posters above
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Nov 28, 2020 21:05
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croup coughfield posted:cant believe i never noticed "and lads, you know we're gonna kill all the gays" at the end of all my favorite communist literature you’re right, historical examples of “actually existing communism” have no place in the discussion of building communism. ps youre a leftcom now
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Nov 28, 2020 21:07
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Communists will imprison the gays, Marco Rubio told me so
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Nov 28, 2020 21:08
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are you more worried that the use of violence at all will overextend and hurt those we should to protect, or that happening is inherent to communism
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Nov 28, 2020 21:08
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THS posted:no the lesson is they will call you communists anyway. additionally if you are a communist and you try to conceal that for branding, then the more informed people who may be interested, might then be put off by cynical misrepresentation Seriously, who cares if they call you commies? America has a permanent throbbing erection for bosses, offer EVERYONE the chance to be one and they'll jump at the chance. Tell them they should decide their own wages, their own hours, their own vacations, and no amount of Red Scare nonsense will make people be opposed to that. The problem is getting through that initial aversion to the brand, so just avoid it. Seriously, try explaining that everyone should own a piece of their workplace to a chud, and they'll be quite happy. Tell them "that's socialism", and they'll flip their poo poo. So just never loving tell them.
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Nov 28, 2020 21:14
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somebody deepfake the biden "i'm gay" so its stalin saying it
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Nov 28, 2020 21:18
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Cpt_Obvious posted:Tell them "that's socialism", and they'll flip their poo poo. So just never loving tell them. they will figure it out. i don’t think concealing the source of the whole foundation of your political theory is a good idea. it’s better to openly advocate as socialists additionally by trying to appear as something more generic, i think you risk becoming unmoored from your own history and principles
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Nov 28, 2020 21:20
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THS posted:they will figure it out. i don’t think concealing the source of the whole foundation of your political theory is a good idea. it’s better to openly advocate as socialists I agree with this, rebranding can only take you so far when the entire media and political establishment will immediately label you as communists as soon as you advocate for anything left of Reagan, and they have far more reach than any of us can hope for
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Nov 28, 2020 21:25
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Cpt_Obvious posted:If capitalism has taught us anything, it's the importance of branding. The "communist" brand has bee sufficiently sullied here is the States and you can either fight an uphill against it, or just rebrand to some like the United Workers of America and coop some of that sweet, sweet patriotism. (crypto)fascists are playing a different game with different rules than socialists are. same reason it doesn't make sense when people say they want the DSA to be as influential as the NRA
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Nov 28, 2020 21:25
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like if you are trying to pretend its not socialism, and someone asks you “wow im interested in these ideas, is there anything i can read on this stuff” youd have to really go out of your way to recommend stuff that doesnt advocate for or grapple with socialism and communism. i dont think there is any way of getting around it
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Nov 28, 2020 21:27
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indigi posted:you’re right, historical examples of “actually existing communism” have no place in the discussion of building communism. ps youre a leftcom now While you are correct that it has happened in the past, murdering LGBT people who don't own factories is not actually innate to the ideology. Cpt_Obvious posted:Seriously, who cares if they call you commies? America has a permanent throbbing erection for bosses, offer EVERYONE the chance to be one and they'll jump at the chance. Tell them they should decide their own wages, their own hours, their own vacations, and no amount of Red Scare nonsense will make people be opposed to that. The problem is getting through that initial aversion to the brand, so just avoid it. So what have you called it, in these discussions?
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Nov 28, 2020 21:28
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indigi posted:such as against LGBT and ethnic minorities. It’s good when the red team does it the GDR was the first country im aware of to recognize the right to transition as part of basic healthcare. in like the 70s no less.
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Nov 28, 2020 21:34
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croup coughfield posted:So what have you called it, in these discussions? Self-employment. Being your own boss. Democracy in the workplace. America has equiped the left with all the propaganda it needs to sell socialism, it just villianized the label. Don't sell it as the rising proletariat, sell it as the freedom to choose your own hours and democratic representation in the workplace. The liberty not to be fired without a say. The freedom to choose who's in charge, etc.
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Nov 28, 2020 21:35
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it's better to tell people that they have been lied to their entire lives and point to commonly known but still supported by the state lies, such as WMDs in Iraq, pretending we didnt fun the mujahedeen and therefore cause 9/11 to ourselves, south american death squads etc. as examples that maybe actually we are also lied to about communism
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Nov 28, 2020 21:36
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America loving LOVES freedom and democracy. They are the core political aspects that every member of our society agrees on. So frame your discussions around those instead, and makes sure they know that freedom MUST come from ownership.
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Nov 28, 2020 21:37
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yes... the freedom of one day owning your own business, as long as you work hard and play your cards right
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Nov 28, 2020 21:54
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a freedom that notorious socialist joe biden wants to strip you of
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Nov 28, 2020 21:58
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why is “big” so common an adjective in left-wing writing? is it out if translation or a conscious effort to simplify language and try to increase its emotional impact? I generally see this in writing by Trotskyist and Maoists. Like, “big bourgeois compradors and big landlords” in that letter from the Maoists in the Phillipines posted above. I don’t really care to go to the effort to compute this but I’d say Trot writers use the word “big” possibly an order of magnitude times more than other leftist writers or mainstream media. Is this a real thing, a linguistic idiosyncrasy or is there an underlying logic to Big Writing? If I hadn’t seen the Maoists doing it, it would be ripe for a joke.
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Nov 28, 2020 22:00
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we must overthrow the power of thicc business
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Nov 28, 2020 22:17
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thicc enterprise destroys lives
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Nov 28, 2020 22:21
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