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Thom Yorke raps posted:Can anyone help me with arguing with parents re: COVID? How is your relationship with your brother? He might be the better one to try to convince.
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Nov 30, 2020 20:18
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Der Kyhe posted:Yes, and because swine flu vaccination caused a huge flare of narcolepsy in the younger (10-18 year) population, you can bet that the only people who take the in any way "experimental" vaccines voluntarily in EU will be the 25+ people and those who really need it (healthcare, government, law enforcement etc). What kind of vaccine was this? Is it similar to any of the vaccines being produced for covid? As someone else pointed out, correlation is not causation, but with other trials, generally if there's a suspected issue, they will pause a vaccine trial, determine the root cause, then resume the trial. This has happened several times for the covid vaccines. In the swine flu vaccine, for some reason they decided not to resume the vaccine trial in finland 
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Nov 30, 2020 20:54
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Thom Yorke raps posted:My parents think my brother quarantining in their house is fine because it's 5,000 square feet and my brother and his wife will just stay on the first floor, my parents on the third floor, and they'll disinfect the shared kitchen space on the second floor, but my understanding is that HVAC systems can spread the virus; they say it is just like living in an apartment building, so its fine. Yes, the virus spreads via the air, and yes, having an hvac is comparable to apartment building hardware, which means for YOUR BROTHER the risk is no different if they're currently living in an apartment building, however YOUR PARENTS currently don't? So this may not change the risk for himself, but he admits he is increasing the risk for your parents. Further: ANYBODY who claims "i don't have the roni" and didn't have a negative test the same day is idiotic. The huge defining feature of the virus is that you can have it for weeks and ~half of people who get it are contagious without having any symptoms, thus they ARE sick and do not know it. This applies to ~half of all people who get the virus. So, the only way to do this safely is to get a test on the day, and the following 4 days: before they go on the trip, and everytime they leave the house of your parents. And if he's not willing to get tested that much ... what does he care more about? Does he care that little about his parents that he must have the vacation and risk loving murdering his own parents through negligence? Mithaldu fucked around with this message at 21:00 on Nov 30, 2020 |
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Nov 30, 2020 20:58
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Vakal posted:Thanks, I assumed their were more shenanigans going on than they were admitting to. Canada is still very low in cases per million. Which is pretty crazy considering we share with the world's longest land border with the world's most plague ridden country. Also CERB was not a waste. That money was spent on making sure people survived through the initial lockdown. If we had taken the American approach instead, we would have 3 times as many deaths from COVID directly, and probably a multiple of that from from excess deaths caused by full hospitals.
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Nov 30, 2020 21:00
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Great news everybody! Ski season in Switzerland is OPEN! https://twitter.com/ChristineLoriol/status/1332995818312265729 We can do this because we've all just worked so darn hard to eliminate this virus without any of those nasty lockdowns or federal intervention and we deserve a treat. Here's the health minister telling us how proud he is and saing the situation now is much better than at the start of November. You can see the deaths per million chart below that and erm... https://twitter.com/SamuraiBlau/status/1332039895179800576 Also, the areas with the worst of the second wave (which is clearly not over yet) have just decided that they're going to open up the restaurants again on 10 December. Again, "because the situation is improving". Less than 2 weeks ago the ICUs were above capacity (and people were arguing on Twitter saying that wasn't technically true since they were using tents and converted parking garages now so there are actually plenty of beds), but this time it'll be fine for sure. It's gonna be horrific by January.
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Nov 30, 2020 21:17
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If the virus isn't real then the vaccine isn't real. Live and let die I suppose.
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Nov 30, 2020 21:18
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Starks posted:Canada is still very low in cases per million. Which is pretty crazy considering we share with the world's longest land border with the world's most plague ridden country. Not sure if this is a relevant statement as that border has been sealed since March
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Nov 30, 2020 21:41
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Hadlock posted:Not sure if this is a relevant statement as that border has been sealed since March There are lots of exceptions to the border closure. Considering that Australia had a major outbreak from frozen fish, I can only imagine how much COVID our "essential supply chain" exception has brought in. Out of curiousity I checked out the numbers from the American side: https://explore.dot.gov/views/BorderCrossingData/Monthly?:isGuestRedirectFromVizportal=y&:embed=y Looking at Detroit and Niagara Falls, the two I'm most familiar with, and Truck traffic is basically the same as it was pre-pandemic. Obviously personal traffic is down, but Canadians are basically free to travel to the U.S. via air and we have our own idiots that are doing so (Snowbirds are still planning to go to the States at a rate of around 30%: https://toronto.ctvnews.ca/canadian-snowbirds-torn-over-heading-south-or-staying-home-amid-covid-19-pandemic-1.5206273). Starks fucked around with this message at 22:08 on Nov 30, 2020 |
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Nov 30, 2020 21:59
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Starks posted:There are lots of exceptions to the border closure. Considering that Australia had a major outbreak from frozen fish, I can only imagine how much COVID our "essential supply chain" exception has brought in. "Truck drivers accounted for close to half of the 6.5 million travellers entries into Canada since March 31". They're keeping info for contact tracing and are looking at doing rapid tests, but nothing currently beyond the usual checklist. Sucks to have the US as neighbors at the best of times. Here's hoping the non-essential border closure will last forever.
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Nov 30, 2020 22:09
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the only thoughts i have on this are parody redacted in minecraft because right now politicians are literally murdering their subjects for profits in realtime and direct causation
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Nov 30, 2020 22:10
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I still have trouble believing the frozen fish thing.Hadlock posted:What kind of vaccine was this? Is it similar to any of the vaccines being produced for covid? Anyway, mrna vaccines are brand new in people and viral vector vaccines almost are. Early indications are very good on safety but there's no way to know if there are weird, very rare reactions. Even if there are, based on what we know it beats the hell out of covid on a population scale.
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Nov 30, 2020 22:12
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Figured I might as well ask this here: why is food not considered a transfer vector for the rona? It doesn't follow intuitively to me that it can spread through contact on surfaces for up to 28 days but if it touches food it magically just disappears? It's not like food just appears ex nihilo in your mouth either, you need to handle dishes and utensils and napkins etc even if you're getting it takeout/delivery. Am I missing something or is it a pretty meaningless distinction?
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Nov 30, 2020 22:25
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Doesn't oil gently caress with the virus lipid shell? Like a bunch of greasy food is a really bad vector for any virus.
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Nov 30, 2020 22:28
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Yes. If you get delivery, treat all the containers/etc. as contaminated and reheat the food. A lot of people are arguing "well food hasn't been PROVEN to be a vector," ignoring that our contact tracing is terrible and food actually has shown up as a vector.
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Nov 30, 2020 22:34
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i like nice words
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isn't it basically the same as eating flu spores? Can you get the flu from eating it?
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Nov 30, 2020 22:36
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Do you plan to breathe while eating?
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Nov 30, 2020 22:38
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Anne Whateley posted:Do you plan to breathe while eating? You're assuming the virus spores are leaping off the food and becoming airborne. Quite hard if the food is wet. Looks like studies of other known lung viruses show that eating them is not a significant vector.
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Nov 30, 2020 22:42
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In a few years the only source of protein will be from covid farms.
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Nov 30, 2020 22:46
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Better take smaller bites
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Nov 30, 2020 22:49
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Starks posted:Considering that Australia had a major outbreak from frozen fish I think you're thinking of NZ.
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Nov 30, 2020 23:01
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AnonSpore posted:Figured I might as well ask this here: why is food not considered a transfer vector for the rona? It doesn't follow intuitively to me that it can spread through contact on surfaces for up to 28 days but if it touches food it magically just disappears? It's not like food just appears ex nihilo in your mouth either, you need to handle dishes and utensils and napkins etc even if you're getting it takeout/delivery. Am I missing something or is it a pretty meaningless distinction? Heat isn't good for this virus. So even if the cook was contagious, takeout or delivery food that was packaged piping hot and then spent 10-20 minutes sealed in a bag being warm, humid, oily, and salty which is all great for helping the virions to fall apart. So hot food seems safer to me than a salad or cold sandwich. But it may not matter. Inhaling virions so they get to the ACE2 receptors in your lungs is super bad. So don't huff your food. But what happens if you swallow the virions? They get dunked into the acid vat in your stomach, which is really good at destroying most baddies. The acid is surrounded by a thick layer of mucus, to prevent you from digesting your own cells. Virions don't fly, swim, crawl or burrow, they have no will or desire, so there doesn't seem to be an obvious mechanism for them to get through the mucus and into the stomach lining beyond. If they don't bump into a compatible cell before they start to break down then they can't infect you. The stomach is just a less hospitable environment for almost everything than the nose, throat, and lungs. Might be why we get a cold, sniffles, sore throat, etc. way more often than we get 'stomach flu'.
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Nov 30, 2020 23:07
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just lol if you are eating anything these days but solid, gelatinous balls of pure COVID. Get the sour cream n onion ones for a taste treat. Unless, you know, you lost your sense of taste. It will come back! Probably.
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Nov 30, 2020 23:07
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Facebook Aunt posted:Heat isn't good for this virus. So even if the cook was contagious, takeout or delivery food that was packaged piping hot and then spent 10-20 minutes sealed in a bag being warm, humid, oily, and salty which is all great for helping the virions to fall apart. So hot food seems safer to me than a salad or cold sandwich. But it may not matter. If I understand you correctly...licking doorknobs is completely safe.
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Nov 30, 2020 23:18
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Starks posted:If I understand you correctly...licking doorknobs is completely safe. Yes, absolutely. Please report back on how they taste. I'm guessing tangy.
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Nov 30, 2020 23:21
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Facebook Aunt posted:Heat isn't good for this virus. So even if the cook was contagious, takeout or delivery food that was packaged piping hot and then spent 10-20 minutes sealed in a bag being warm, humid, oily, and salty which is all great for helping the virions to fall apart. So hot food seems safer to me than a salad or cold sandwich. But it may not matter. Heat destroys virus seems reasonable enough but not all food is hot, and the CDC website just says "food." If there were a temperature distinction you think it'd be mentioned. I dunno, it just seems weird that I'm expected to be super careful around everything BUT food, sure, go hog wild there, instead of super careful around everything INCLUDING food (which makes more sense to me). If there's some arbitrary quality to all food that encompasses greasy food, hot food, cold food, dry food, food you eat with utensils, food you hold with your hands, etc, I'd like to hear it, basically. As far as I can tell it seems to be "the food goes in your mouth and your mouth/stomach break down virus" which makes sense to me, but my mouth is connected to my respiratory system and I usually breathe while I eat, including while I have food inside my mouth. Is that not supposed to matter? I feel like this reads as shitposting but I honestly don't understand the distinction
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Nov 30, 2020 23:34
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I think it's just that it's way, way less likely that you'll inhale a sizable amount of Covid while eating. Think about how much vapor is coming out of a persons mouth while they're breathing compared to how many water droplets might be shedding off a pizza. The other factor is the viral load being minimized as it's being transported from one surface to another. Someone with covid hands touching a package that gets picked up by someone else and delivered to you isn't anywhere near as bad as breathing covid air for hours at a time in an office.
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Nov 30, 2020 23:46
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I just go by the CDC guidelines on their site back in April which was that take-out is okay if wash your hands thoroughly after removing all packaging. The L&L I go to has a zombie-apocalypse style barricade setup with chairs and tables and all the windows shuttered so it looks closed. The guy just cracks the door open to take your money and give you the order. Especially now, I try to go to the grocery store as little as possible. Take-out is my way of getting fresh lettuce in my diet for prolonged periods where I'll be out.
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Nov 30, 2020 23:56
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AnonSpore posted:Heat destroys virus seems reasonable enough but not all food is hot, and the CDC website just says "food." If there were a temperature distinction you think it'd be mentioned. I dunno, it just seems weird that I'm expected to be super careful around everything BUT food, sure, go hog wild there, instead of super careful around everything INCLUDING food (which makes more sense to me). If there's some arbitrary quality to all food that encompasses greasy food, hot food, cold food, dry food, food you eat with utensils, food you hold with your hands, etc, I'd like to hear it, basically. As far as I can tell it seems to be "the food goes in your mouth and your mouth/stomach break down virus" which makes sense to me, but my mouth is connected to my respiratory system and I usually breathe while I eat, including while I have food inside my mouth. Is that not supposed to matter? I feel like this reads as shitposting but I honestly don't understand the distinction  It's just playing the odds. You have to think through the risks and decide which ones seem worthwhile to you.The CDC and WHO aren't going to say "this food is probably okay, that food probably isn't" unless there are a bunch of peer reviewed studies on the subject contradicting their "food is okay" position. There is an element of the 'the dose makes the poison' here. Inhale two virions and you'll likely be fine, inhale two million virions and you'll likely get sick. They've probably decided the chance of getting a huge dose from food is tiny, so food is okay. (Or maybe they are encouraging people to eat out because it is good for the economy and the leadership are ghouls.)
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Dec 1, 2020 00:02
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AnonSpore posted:Heat destroys virus seems reasonable enough but not all food is hot, and the CDC website just says "food." If there were a temperature distinction you think it'd be mentioned. I dunno, it just seems weird that I'm expected to be super careful around everything BUT food, sure, go hog wild there, instead of super careful around everything INCLUDING food (which makes more sense to me). If there's some arbitrary quality to all food that encompasses greasy food, hot food, cold food, dry food, food you eat with utensils, food you hold with your hands, etc, I'd like to hear it, basically. As far as I can tell it seems to be "the food goes in your mouth and your mouth/stomach break down virus" which makes sense to me, but my mouth is connected to my respiratory system and I usually breathe while I eat, including while I have food inside my mouth. Is that not supposed to matter? I feel like this reads as shitposting but I honestly don't understand the distinction The distinction basically is "if we tell people some foods are not as safe as others the half of the population with bathwater IQs will gently caress it up somehow and end up either malnourished or unjustly stigmatizing entire forms of cuisine." Since the risk isn't great if proper food handling procedures are followed, they're taking a chance in the hopes of not making things worse later. They still have trouble getting people to cook their food well enough to kill all the bacteria that gets on the meat during slaughter, transport, and butchering.
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Dec 1, 2020 00:51
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AnonSpore posted:Figured I might as well ask this here: why is food not considered a transfer vector for the rona? It doesn't follow intuitively to me that it can spread through contact on surfaces for up to 28 days but if it touches food it magically just disappears? It's not like food just appears ex nihilo in your mouth either, you need to handle dishes and utensils and napkins etc even if you're getting it takeout/delivery. Am I missing something or is it a pretty meaningless distinction? As far as I know there have been no confirmed outbreaks anywhere in the world traced back to food or food packaging in the last 8 months or whatever of everyone eating takeout. Airborne droplets spreading directly from person to person are the thing e: also, as I've said before, making sure restaurants are up to code is something every health department in the America was already doing, and already had trained employees with procedures in place and relationships with the industry before covid. It's not like, say, contact tracing, where everyone involved is a new hire from the last few months and nobody knows what they're doing. In some areas you can see the results of a restaurant's past inspections online, and this should give you a pretty good sense of how well they're likely coping with the new realities poverty goat fucked around with this message at 01:10 on Dec 1, 2020 |
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Dec 1, 2020 01:00
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Thom Yorke raps posted:Can anyone help me with arguing with parents re: COVID? Big generalizations incoming... Your parents are spoiled boomers who have never been told "no" in any meaningful way in their lives, and your brother is wealthy. You can't reason with them. They'll always be able to explain/reason (to themselves at least) their way out of doing the right thing. Sacrifice typically isn't in their vocabulary in cases like this because the exceptionalism is too high in their kind.
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Dec 1, 2020 01:28
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http://m.koreaherald.com/view.php?ud=20201129000106&fbclid=IwAR1uOT8IDM1zJMr0VpClYDTkizVAmAX5-SAnmH_ltXw8YktTxK8Z9jKssgU South Korea has decided that the economy is more important. “Now it’s the people, rather than the government, who must lead the fight against COVID-19, by taking the everyday steps to thwart the risks,” he said. “Only then can we triumph against the virus.” Time to finally get that authentic lockdown experience. Thought I was going to miss out. Though the city of Busan has gone to level 3 restrictions, so maybe the individual regions will do what is needed. The US is an awful influence.
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Dec 1, 2020 01:51
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To my idiot eyes this looks like a 3rd wave of hospitalizations:
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Dec 1, 2020 02:23
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My sister is a teacher. She thinks she caught it from another teacher at her school, and one more teacher got sick a week after my sister was out. Her husband is an essential worker, wiring security systems or something, and his boss says that he can't come back to work until two weeks after my sister is cleared. He won't be getting paid. God only knows if/when my sister will be cleared, and her job still expects her to do all the lesson plans and schoolwork from home even if she isn't teaching. They even tried asking her to Zoom from bed. Now my sister and her family have no income for however long this poo poo-show plays out, and it feels like there's nothing I can do to help.
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Dec 1, 2020 02:38
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Blistex posted:Big generalizations incoming... The problem with these generalizations isn't just that they're kind of unsavory, it's also that they're not reliable, they're a bad guide to understanding people. Boomers are a pretty handy target for cathartic expressions of frustration and their generation in aggregate has a lot to answer for, but "your parents are a lost cause (no I've never met them)" is poor advice.
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Dec 1, 2020 04:38
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AnonSpore posted:Figured I might as well ask this here: why is food not considered a transfer vector for the rona? It doesn't follow intuitively to me that it can spread through contact on surfaces for up to 28 days but if it touches food it magically just disappears? It's not like food just appears ex nihilo in your mouth either, you need to handle dishes and utensils and napkins etc even if you're getting it takeout/delivery. Am I missing something or is it a pretty meaningless distinction? I'll never be able to find the one at this point, but some lady from the CDC answered this once on TV, saying basically, some cdc lady from back in March or April posted:If food was a primary infection vector, we would have found out pretty much immediately, because people have been getting takeout from the start of the pandemic and there are virtually no cases of proven spread through food. In the few cases where food was involved, it was almost certainly due to the packaging.... Think about it, every person on the planet has to eat every few days. If food was a primary vector, it would have been immediately obvious. Every person has to eat and yet in every country, food is not a primary vector, not one.... I know it's gross, but if someone with covid-19 sneezed on your raw salad, and then you ate it, if you washed your hands after touching the packaging, it's nearly impossible for you to get covid unless you had open sores in your mouth, and even then it's highly unlikely The downside to covid not spreading through food, is that the next time we have an airborne pandemic, the lack of food transmission is going to be a giant red flag that it is airborne, and not smear, and the CDC isn't going to be able to lie their way out of a paper bag to prevent mass panic This pandemic, they refused to call it a pandemic or airborne for months and we still ran out of toilet paper for three months, next time is going to be way way worse Hadlock fucked around with this message at 06:51 on Dec 1, 2020 |
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Dec 1, 2020 06:48
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Blitter posted:"Truck drivers accounted for close to half of the 6.5 million travellers entries into Canada since March 31". They're keeping info for contact tracing and are looking at doing rapid tests, but nothing currently beyond the usual checklist. Here in Victoria Australia we've had several small outbreaks traced back to delivery drivers. One was a McDonalds delivery driver who infected staff at several McDonalds restaurants, another was a truck driver who was allowed to leave the "ring of steel" exclusion zone around Melbourne to do some deliveries in rural areas because essential services like transport were exempted from the lockdown. He had a sit down meal in a cafe (which was against the rules) and infected one of the cafe workers. Scarodactyl posted:I still have trouble believing the frozen fish thing. China keeps claiming that they've detected the virus on frozen seafood imports and temporarily banning those imports, which has prompted the affected countries to complain that it's just a sneaky trade barrier. On the other hand there's also been infections among freight handlers and outbreaks on container ships so https://apnews.com/article/pandemics-beijing-global-trade-coronavirus-pandemic-china-28671d69256d84001a471876a6bc4077
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Dec 1, 2020 07:26
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Waffle! posted:My sister is a teacher. She thinks she caught it from another teacher at her school, and one more teacher got sick a week after my sister was out. Her husband is an essential worker, wiring security systems or something, and his boss says that he can't come back to work until two weeks after my sister is cleared. He won't be getting paid. God only knows if/when my sister will be cleared, and her job still expects her to do all the lesson plans and schoolwork from home even if she isn't teaching. They even tried asking her to Zoom from bed. Now my sister and her family have no income for however long this poo poo-show plays out, and it feels like there's nothing I can do to help. Jesus Christ that's awful
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Dec 1, 2020 07:32
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Snowglobe of Doom posted:China keeps claiming that they've detected the virus on frozen seafood imports and temporarily banning those imports, which has prompted the affected countries to complain that it's just a sneaky trade barrier. On the other hand there's also been infections among freight handlers and outbreaks on container ships so The guardian ran some article today saying to the effect that China is trying to change the narrative that the virus originated in another country This broken record  "we've detected covid-19 on frozen food boxes containing X from Y country!" every six weeks sort of helps them build that narrative. Guardian seems to imply that it certainly came from china
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Dec 1, 2020 07:47
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Bronze Fonz posted:To my idiot eyes this looks like a 3rd wave of hospitalizations: 
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