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It's also possible to interpret "reach heaven through violence" as a warning that the path of violence will get you killed
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Nov 29, 2020 22:39
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It's an ambiguous statement with multiple interpretations. there's a lot of novel koans in operants work, it's one of the things I like about it
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Nov 29, 2020 22:43
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When Vivec bade Nerevar reach heaven by violence, it was because he didn't understand what Vivec was talking about at the time, so the hortatator took up an axe from the weapon racks and fought his way to the moon, where he tried to kill craters.quote:Vivec said, 'Reach heaven by violence then.' iirc violence however is an act of creative love and nerevar gets it wrong; which ties into Vivec's ultimate acension to the amaranth, where he does what is basically expressed in k6bd and divides himself internally to become a new world it also sat as a reference of the act of violent self-division between lorkhan/akatosh that created the stability of the world that allows others to reach chim/amaranth all the examples vivec uses in reference to those who obtained divinity are those who got to it by an act of betrayal and violence, usually in the act of destruction against their opposite (akatosh/lorkhan, tiber septim/ysmir, nerevarine/dagoth ur) the creative act is inherently destructive and it is meant to be a call for creation/love/authorship to grant divinity, but idiots like nerevar or the demiurges interpret it to mean "kill a lot of people until no one can stop you!"
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Nov 29, 2020 22:59
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Vivec is also a liar, however, and he himself achieved his godhood only after the murder of those who could stop him from taking it.
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Nov 29, 2020 23:33
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Beat. The stress should be on "then," it's a failure to get the real way. But the I would say vivec is more like zoss than the demiurges. Those guys are complete false dreamers like dagoth. And both vivec and zoss failed and required a hero to surpass them at the correct time and in the correct way so that their gently caress up could be fixed.
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Nov 29, 2020 23:59
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Vivec's enlightenment was empty, he could not share it; his peace was cruelty, it would not hold.
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Nov 30, 2020 00:06
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wiegieman posted:Vivec's enlightenment was empty, he could not share it; his peace was cruelty, it would not hold. I love* that the official answer to what happened to Vvardenfall after the game was "the meteor Vivec was suspending fell and wiped out the island."
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Nov 30, 2020 00:37
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jng2058 posted:I think it may go deeper than that. I think it's that if one applied the same amount of effort and dedication that it takes to become a swordmaster to, say, becoming a master noodle maker then you would end up a much happier and fulfilled person. You would be able to make delicious meals and feed the hungry. You could support a family, and gain fame, recognition, and wealth if those things matter to you. I don't read it like that at all. Meti cut her soul into into a sword edge sharp enough to cut god, then realised that being a weapon was a lovely thing to be. I don't think she's telling anyone to dedicate that kind of ludicrous dedication into something more worthwhile, like you should focus your entire being into a continuous noodle making motion or anything. It's just "go and make noodles or whatever it is you people do". She doesn't particularly respect it, it's not that's a particularly good thing to do, it's just that a simple moderately happy life is way better and more fulfilling than what she did. Meti is not espousing any kind of complete philosophy on how to live a good life. She has no idea how to live a good life, she considers herself a complete gently caress up and plans to sit there in a barrel until she dies. And she has no particular interest in feeding the hungry either https://killsixbilliondemons.com/comic/king-of-swords-6-52-2/ Meti's enlightenment went as far as seeing through the bullshit, and deciding to walk away from it. She did not get as far as actually doing anything better, and she is the first to tell you that. She tells people to their face she's a terrible person to take advice from, and the smartest thing they could do is not listen to another word she's saying, walk the gently caress away and go back to whatever they were doing before. And no one ever listens because they think they want to be good at swordfighting.
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Nov 30, 2020 01:27
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According to the forum and obscure text stuff, Vivec got his revenge against Azura and in the final era married the Dunmer who talked numidium to death and gave birth to a new universe and became a new godhead, so I think Vivec did pretty well for himself. If k6bd follows the obscure texts, Alison and Zaid are going to get married and explode into a new universe, and the cycle will repeat because alison is al-yis-un and the true heir in that she will recreate the steps and k6bd ends with another sailor moon cosplayer and now it's homestuck everything is ultimately homestuck if you think about it
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Nov 30, 2020 01:54
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FlocksOfMice posted:According to the forum and obscure text stuff, Vivec got his revenge against Azura and in the final era married the Dunmer who talked numidium to death and gave birth to a new universe and became a new godhead, so I think Vivec did pretty well for himself. If k6bd follows the obscure texts, Alison and Zaid are going to get married and explode into a new universe, and the cycle will repeat because alison is al-yis-un and the true heir in that she will recreate the steps and k6bd ends with another sailor moon cosplayer and now it's homestuck everything is ultimately homestuck if you think about it Jadis, seeing the true shape of creation just before being rendered catatonic: "why are there so many of the gray assholes?"
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Nov 30, 2020 03:07
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Magnus Manfist posted:I don't read it like that at all. Meti cut her soul into into a sword edge sharp enough to cut god, then realised that being a weapon was a lovely thing to be. I don't think she's telling anyone to dedicate that kind of ludicrous dedication into something more worthwhile, like you should focus your entire being into a continuous noodle making motion or anything. It's just "go and make noodles or whatever it is you people do". She doesn't particularly respect it, it's not that's a particularly good thing to do, it's just that a simple moderately happy life is way better and more fulfilling than what she did. This is, imo, the correct take. Meti is not a happy person and does not know how to live a good life, but she does know that the sword is a poison and the smartest thing to do is to just Not Drink Poison. She's not suggesting a way to be Royalty through non-cutting motions, she's suggesting that the pursuit of Royalty is an idiot's task and the life of the sword is an idiot's life. She knows, because she is that idiot. She's clearly kind of proud of being that idiot but also knows only an idiot would be proud of being such an incredible idiot.
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Nov 30, 2020 09:48
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Granny Weatherwax would simultaneously respect Meti's dedicated mastery and completely disdain the total waste of a life that it represents. They would undoubtedly get along based on this common viewpoint on Meti's life. Granny would probably straight up not respect her inability to just loving live her life right instead though. Nanny Ogg would probably just get drunk with her.
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Nov 30, 2020 17:51
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Magrat Garlick would make for a great chapter 1 Allison
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Nov 30, 2020 18:20
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Meti may not hold noodle vendors in high esteem but she absolutely respects them more than anyone who follows the path of a warrior or killer.
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Nov 30, 2020 18:41
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Has anyone talked about how Jagganoth is basically exactly Darth Vader-as-interpreted-by-SuperMechaGodzilla? Anyway definitely rooting for Big Yaun in all this; can't wait to see how Al-Yisun fucks it all up  vvv Anakin Skywalker, the innocent child, experiences the trauma of slavery and child soldier-y, and it produces Annie the Fascist Teen—still good-hearted, but convinced by his losses that serving a 'loving' totalitarian ruler is the only way to right the wrongs of the universe After that he gets dunked in lava by his one and only friend, dies, and is reborn as a holy angel of justice—the Christ who brings the sword—to cleanse the galaxy of its entrenched power structures and finally free the slaves, except his dumbshit son fucks things up and just perpetuates the status quo (this is allison) HookedOnChthonics fucked around with this message at 23:10 on Nov 30, 2020 |
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Nov 30, 2020 22:54
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I try not to read smg effort posts anymore but i’m interested in what you mean.
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Nov 30, 2020 22:55
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HookedOnChthonics posted:Darth Vader-as-interpreted-by-SuperMechaGodzilla I too would like to know more
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Nov 30, 2020 23:06
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A child (and symbolic representation of innocence & naive justice) experiences intense trauma and is initiated into a warrior society, one that effectively strips 99% of its other child inductees of any existing morals, ethics, etc. and puts the perpetuation of the system and glorification of a warrior code above them. However, because of the trauma that produced them, this specific child does not forget their prior life but instead synthesizes it with their newfound power, and is able to cast down the old order for its participation in the injustice. Everything has consequences, though, and this character is then forced to abide by them.
HookedOnChthonics fucked around with this message at 23:28 on Nov 30, 2020 |
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Nov 30, 2020 23:26
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Thanks, I hate it.
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Dec 1, 2020 01:25
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And he has a sweet mask that obscures his bald scarred head!
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Dec 1, 2020 06:08
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HookedOnChthonics posted:After that he gets dunked in lava by his one and only friend, dies, and is reborn as a holy angel of justice—the Christ who brings the sword—to cleanse the galaxy of its entrenched power structures HookedOnChthonics posted:finally free the slaves 
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Dec 1, 2020 06:20
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Please, we have a perfectly good webcomic here, we don't need to talk about readings of Star Wars that position Anakin Skywalker as violent fascist Jesus overthrowing neoliberalism and killing a bunch of kids for the crimes of the Jedi. Let's argue about whether or not K6BD's model of power and change is sufficiently leftist, instead. Was Lenin Royal? Would Zoss support a Scandinavian welfare state?
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Dec 1, 2020 06:26
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Joe Slowboat posted:Was Lenin Royal? I think the Romanovs would argue that Lenin was fairly against the whole concept of royalty
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Dec 1, 2020 06:43
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i think an adequately Royal individual could support a post scarcity society, but really isnt that just creating a technocratic panopticon run by a philosopher king? in conclusion, politics can be compared and contrasted
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Dec 1, 2020 06:44
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paranoid randroid posted:i think an adequately Royal individual could support a post scarcity society, but really isnt that just creating a technocratic panopticon run by a philosopher king? in conclusion, politics can be compared and contrasted Solomon already tried the socialism angle, but it hasn't stuck. A sun for every planet! Two for the extremely needy!
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Dec 1, 2020 07:44
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Joe Slowboat posted:Let's argue about whether or not K6BD's model of power and change is sufficiently leftist, instead. Was Lenin Royal? Would Zoss support a Scandinavian welfare state? Dead Reckoning fucked around with this message at 07:52 on Dec 1, 2020 |
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Dec 1, 2020 07:47
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Dead Reckoning posted:Gog is the communist demiurge. Rather than a hierarchy ruled by an Emperor, every citizen of Gog has an equal share of the Key and power. There is no unhappiness or want under Gog, and we can assume medical care is universal as well. Free will is a necessary sacrifice in order to achieve this level of functioning, but Gog can assure you that many of them were counter-revolutionaries before getting wormed and are surely better off this way. Also, sometimes the State appropriates a citizen's body into a worm explosion as a means of fast travel, but this is necessary for the system to function. I nod along, "loving wisdom" I say as I squat in the mud that was formerly my kingdom, the floating pleasure palaces rapacious tendrils having stripped every resource from the carcass of my home. "At least I'm no loving commie" I say as I survey the temporary embarrassment of my entire civilization.
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Dec 1, 2020 14:34
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Who What Now posted:
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Dec 1, 2020 17:54
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Rogue AI Goddess posted:
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Dec 1, 2020 21:01
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forget all that horsepiss, who would moist von lipwig get along with
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Dec 2, 2020 03:43
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paranoid randroid posted:forget all that horsepiss, who would moist von lipwig get along with Cio, most likely
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Dec 2, 2020 03:46
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paranoid randroid posted:forget all that horsepiss, who would moist von lipwig get along with I feel that he and Cio would operate on compatible wavelengths.
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Dec 2, 2020 03:47
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Love the breath affect in the current update (Yay there is always more Gog!).
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Dec 2, 2020 05:22
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Teleports behind you
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Dec 2, 2020 05:45
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Haha, Gog's moment of confusion is excellent
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Dec 2, 2020 06:24
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Mottom about to get merked.
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Dec 2, 2020 06:58
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Hempuli posted:Haha, Gog's moment of confusion is excellent
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Dec 2, 2020 07:01
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Xand_Man posted:Mottom about to get merked. Yeah I'm interested to see how she's gonna get out of this if she does
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Dec 2, 2020 07:41
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I suspect Incubus may intercept the attack, but only out of the tactical consideration that losing one of the 6 would probably irrevocably ruin their chances of stopping Jagganoth
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Dec 2, 2020 07:53
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Vigilant Gaze is a bit golem-ish by Discworld standards
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Dec 2, 2020 07:57
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