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Even if the final episode wasn't rushed and hacked together, I doubt it would've been much better. This season just didn't come together at all.
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Dec 1, 2020 06:45
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Major step down from S2 with the Gerhardt family vs. St. Louis featuring Mike & the Kitchen Bros. That had so much fun characterization and history, while here it is just “the mafia” and they’re gonna take the stockyards if you don’t watch out. That guy at the end running things felt like a cookie cutter syndicate, GTA pedestrians had more depth.
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Dec 1, 2020 07:07
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I rewatched S3 a few months ago and I think it holds up a lot better than ya'll are remembering. It doesn't hit the high of the second season, but there's a lot of really fun stuff there. romanowski posted:I also thought based on the first episode that the nurse was going to be more of a lorne malvo style vaguely-supernatural-but-not-really villain and I would have liked that more than her just being a character who is sort of loosely tied to the main plot and who disappears for episodes at a time and then gets shot in the head. I like that actress Hard agree here. The 'supernatural force majeure' character is a staple in these shows, and it's a bummer they didn't go all the way with the nurse being that or giving her some backstory to explain the motivation. General concept was a fine starting point, and Jesse Buckley was *perfect* for it, but the lack of that depth or prowess was a dentriment. Same thing with the ghost story. Either keep it stupid vague like S2 with the aliens or stick to the logic you've created. No idea why the vengeful spirit trying to kill Smutey's kept saving them.
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Dec 1, 2020 07:09
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Just wait for the inevitable, deeply embarrassing Noah Hawley interview where he explains that this season was also about quantum physics.
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Dec 1, 2020 09:49
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Last two episodes tricked me into thinking the whole season wasn't going to feel like a huge waste of my time
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Dec 1, 2020 13:29
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I enjoyed watching each episode individually so I would never call this season a waste of time or anything like that. The Rabbi and Satchel episode was by far my favorite. It did feel less complete than season 1 and 2 somehow. Honestly though my biggest problem was the stock fart sound effects when Swanee ate that pie. That and ipecac takes effect immediately. Still one of the prettiest shows I've seen in a while
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Dec 1, 2020 16:07
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Just absolutely lol at the building in the montage where Cannon is looking out of his car that was covered in mobile phone masts. Just look at this poo poo! This was a lingering shot, and the masts are right in the middle of frame! This has got to be one of the biggest errors I've ever seen in high-budget TV. This makes that crew member in the Mandalorian look like nothing.
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Dec 1, 2020 16:29
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romanowski posted:I liked the Mike Milligan secret origin story stuff and wish it was tied to an otherwise more interesting or meaningful season The World Inferno posted:I rewatched S3 a few months ago and I think it holds up a lot better than ya'll are remembering. It doesn't hit the high of the second season, but there's a lot of really fun stuff there. Season 4 had some cool things and moments but, like most of you have said, didn't really do anything cohesive with them. Bums me out a bit as I liked so many of the individual elements contained therein. Josto and Gaetano, Doctor Senator, Horny Murder Nurse, Bonnie and notClyde, Satchel and the Rabbi, Mormon Rayland Givens, OCD PTSD Detective, Ghost Hauntings, Wild West and early 20th Century Crime fading away to the new Modern Crime Syndicate. Lots of stuff. Even the bits about Cannon trying to move away from the small time neighbourhood crime boss (held down by institutionalized racism) and into something respectable and more solid internationally was a nice theme.... although him trying to sell someone on an actual modern looking credit card was a bit too much. The part where Loy talked about how all of these gangsters were the outcasts of proper American society was really spot on; just wild dogs fighting for scraps the masters tossed them. I wanted more of that. I could have watched an entire season of Rabbi and young Mike riding around "Road to Perdition" style. Go watch the 2002 movie Road to Perdition btw. So many cool things and characters that just went nowhere. I enjoyed it alright but still the first season of Fargo I felt let down by. I don't blame the actors or even COVID as I'm not even sure if "the best season finale in the universe" could have wrapped all that mess up in a satisfying bow.
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Dec 1, 2020 18:52
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Comrade Fakename posted:Just absolutely lol at the building in the montage where Cannon is looking out of his car that was covered in mobile phone masts. Just look at this poo poo!
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Dec 1, 2020 19:02
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I feel bad saying it wasn't a great season. Really seems like there was a bigger story that got cut wrong.
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Dec 1, 2020 23:07
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DogsInSpace! posted:Texas size ten four. That final scene with him in the car made me sad again. Poor Mike... thought he would become a king and ends up generic employee in a cube farm. Was that last shot him heading to his office job? If so, then yeah, it felt like the end to a requiem for Mike’s character.
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Dec 1, 2020 23:19
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I'm not sure the last shot was Mike heading to his office job, because he was clearly preparing for conflict. But there only being one Kitchen brother with him kind of narrows the timeline it could possibly be; maybe it's him heading to the motel. I really liked the way that last scene was presented: he's still just that same little boy, forever changed, practicing reloading his gun. The biggest issue with Satchel becoming Mike for me was generally that Satchel was rather unemotional and guarded, while Mike was a very cool and larger-than-life figure. But that last scene contextualizes the transformation: Mike is a performance, a defense mechanism. Satchel's still in there, but he's buried under layers of affectation meant to protect him.
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Dec 1, 2020 23:34
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For what it's worth, in addition to the single surviving Kitchen Brother at the wheel, Mike's wearing the exact same outfit (or at least a very similar deep burgundy coat, pale powder blue shirt, and bolo tie) as he does in the office drone scene at the end of season 2. And he's told to ditch the cowboy look and 'long hair' in that scene. So it's presumably meant to be the same day. The two possibilities (one more likely than the other) is that it's him being driven to that meeting, as there's plenty of rural roads to look out on between Sioux Falls and Kansas City. But I suppose a more distant possibility is that the scene takes place after the assignment to accounting, and Mike and Gale are driving west through Kansas on the actual same road Satchel walked thirty years prior so it's a literal flashback, and Mike's ending is saying "gently caress it" to office drudgery to seek his fortune in the West. Checking and doublechecking his gun would be more in line with that drive, but I assume it's the former, given how Hawley sounded pretty dubious about revisiting Mike Milligan in the future, and apparently a discarded version of the scene was described like this: quote:There were other versions. There was a version where after Loy's death, we jumped forward in time to the '90s, and we see Bokeem now as part of this corporate engine, the Kansas City mafia. When we last saw him [in season two], we left him in an office with a typewriter. It was going to be this idea that he prospered in that business on some level, but now that we understood his past, we would understand that he was "passing" in order to do it.
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Dec 2, 2020 00:26
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quote:How much are you thinking about the future of Fargo? Is there an idea for a fifth season yet? https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/fargo-season-4-finale-explained
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Dec 2, 2020 01:46
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The World Inferno posted:https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/fargo-season-4-finale-explained In this interview what he's saying makes sense, but I didn't really see it reflected in the season. I really wonder what went wrong (besides the plague times). That last shot where you finally see Mike would have been so much better if they showed him passing by the "The Future Is Now" sign again, but worn from time. Without that awful overlay of him as a child.
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Dec 2, 2020 04:28
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Edge & Christian posted:It didn't even register to me that those were phone towers and not... whatever a cold storage plant would have for exhaust pipes or whatever. I can see how it would be distracting if you recognized them immediately. Have you not looked at the top of a building in the last 20 years? Phone masts are everywhere, and that is clearly not 1951 technology.
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Dec 2, 2020 10:32
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Man I really loved the back half of the season and felt it was building nicely to the climax and then the final episode just... wasn't all that great. Still some great individual moments/scenes, but nothing really came together in a particularly satisfying way. As mentioned earlier, Ethelrida really got the short end of the stick, her and her parents were really interesting characters and they were treated almost entirely as an afterthought in this episode. Still, I'd say the season was worth it for how pretty it was, as well as that fantastic road-trip episode with Rabbi and Satchel.
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Dec 2, 2020 11:30
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Watching Gomorrah because I liked Gaetano and there's a (minor Gomorrah spoiler) forced pee drinking scene in one of the first episodes. It's from 2014 so I'm guessing Hawley saw it and cast Salvatore Esposito in this. I could be wrong but I assume that sort of scene is not that frequent.
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Dec 2, 2020 14:04
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Disappointing season overall. I can't express my points as well as other have already, but i found myself saying "what's was the point?" a few times. Like with the two cops deaths. They felt like complete wastes of characters to me, like they weren't exploited fully. Compare to the two hitmen in season 1, where I think they played a smaller role, but didn't feel wasted at all. Or the supermarket storyline, even though it didn't tie into the main plot it still felt good and complete. I'm rewatching the whole series, halfway through 2 right now. 1 is extremely good. I remember liking 3, or at least hating...Vargas was it?
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Dec 2, 2020 16:17
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Season two is a *masterpiece*, what with how large the cast is yet well fleshed out and realized. Even rewards rewatching, as minor characters get their moments to shine before they meet their maker. Three doesn't quite live up to that, but you have Ray Wise as "The Wandering Jew", Vargas who's looks like an omnipresent baddie who's actually just great Googling things, the cop who can't be detected by electronics (love love that gag), an extended chase episode with Wrench and Swanko in the woods that's dope as hell, and a brotherly quarrel that's pretty down to earth. In all they do at least weave together a lot smoother than this last one. & the whole post-truth theme hits hard given... *hand gestures*. Fargo makes me get mad at other tv shows for not coming up with as many interesting characters/situations. Heck, I think this season had brilliant set pieces, we just didn't get as many great scenes w/ them interlacing.
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Dec 2, 2020 18:43
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That season felt like both too much and not enough at the same time, but I did enjoy it. Entertaining. Just... had some issues with some writing and pace and stuff. Not bad, overall though.
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Dec 2, 2020 21:36
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Lord Krangdar posted:That last shot where you finally see Mike would have been so much better if they showed him passing by the "The Future Is Now" sign again, but worn from time. Without that awful overlay of him as a child. gently caress.... that faded "Future is Now" sign would have been so beautiful and I'm sad it didn't happen. Mr. Nemo posted:Disappointing season overall. I can't express my points as well as other have already, but i found myself saying "what's was the point?" a few times. Like with the two cops deaths. They felt like complete wastes of characters to me, like they weren't exploited fully. Compare to the two hitmen in season 1, where I think they played a smaller role, but didn't feel wasted at all. Or the supermarket storyline, even though it didn't tie into the main plot it still felt good and complete. VM Varga. Yeah he was utterly loathsome but compelling. You spent a good chunk of the season just waiting for him to get his. The ending of Season 3... with both the former Chief and Varga making their speeches. Chief says he will finally get justice and pay for his crimes just like you, the viewer wants, but it feels a bit rote and hollow. Varga makes his speech mocking her (and you really) and gloating how he will be let go and nothing will happen to him. You don't want it to be true and you hate the guy and punch his smug gross face. Then comes the door. Nothing happens but just the camera looking at the door and silence. I know it was only a minute or two but man that part filled me with such dread. You don't really know what happens and it messes with your mind as every second makes her speech even more hollow and his gloating feel just inevitable. I know it seems silly to spoiler the end of Season 3 but I want people to get the same gut punch I felt if it's been a while for them. Loved that ending. Bleak as gently caress. But then you remember the bowling alley and maybe you just hope Varga finds himself there one day, just like the Cossack. It might not feel like enough for now but should it be? Should we feel silly asking for more comeuppance in this world? What if you don't believe in an afterlife? Questions like that are why I dig this show but the Minsky and S3 ending are so loving bleak. I live in fear that I am secretly Minsky the robot. Also agree that Season 1 is just so solid and nothing wasted. My Season rankings from best to worst are always 2, 1, 3, 4 with nothing against seasons 1 through 3 as all three are great. Arist posted:I really liked the way that last scene was presented: he's still just that same little boy, forever changed, practicing reloading his gun. The biggest issue with Satchel becoming Mike for me was generally that Satchel was rather unemotional and guarded, while Mike was a very cool and larger-than-life figure. But that last scene contextualizes the transformation: Mike is a performance, a defense mechanism. Satchel's still in there, but he's buried under layers of affectation meant to protect him. I assumed it was him heading to the "final showdown" at the motel. Your analysis of the persona of Mike Milligan is just so good I just want to post it again. 100% the way I feel. Goes back to Satchel watching his dad die. His dad who, a few episodes before argued with the Rabbi that it wasn't dog eat dog as they are men and not dogs. <sigh> The World Inferno posted:Season two is a *masterpiece*, what with how large the cast is yet well fleshed out and realized. Even rewards rewatching, as minor characters get their moments to shine before they meet their maker. Also hilarious that I feel the same way about how it makes me mad at other shows. I've seen so many shows that just fail to create guys even half as entertaining.
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Dec 2, 2020 21:50
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DogsInSpace! posted:Also agree that Season 1 is just so solid and nothing wasted. My Season rankings from best to worst are always 2, 1, 3, 4 with nothing against seasons 1 through 3 as all three are great. I liked season 1 a lot but didn't like how they had Bob Odenkirk play the sheriff. Odenkirk is one of our best actors and hits it out of the park as Saul but sticking him in a role where for most of the season all he does is stop Molly from doing her job was frustrating as they didn't give him much to work with. He got a little better in the end and still a powerhouse season, but still annoying to recall that oh yeah Odenkirk was on Fargo but had nothing to do.
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Dec 2, 2020 22:47
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Agreeing with most people in this thread. Was incredibly disappointed. It got to the point, after Josta and Oraetta were killed, I told my wife, "And now Loy is going to get killed by the criminal sister that got away." Everybody else was dead, they didn't touch on the sister again, and they just needed to add in one more shock death. I'm amazed he wasn't randomly shot instead of stabbed. I kept thinking back to see the scene in season 2, when Bear goes to the police station and Nick Offerman comes out to talk to him (I could be remembering wrong, it's been a while since I've seen it). I remember the crazy tension in that scene, worried about Bear killing Offerman, and Offerman wasn't even a big character! He was just a supporting dude, but it was built up so nicely. I feel like if that scene played out now, the tension would have been cut with somebody making some joke, Bear and Offerman laughing, and then Offerman getting shot in the head mid-laugh. I was tentative on this season, because I wasn't a huge fan of season 3, but I was still excited to see it. Season 4 has officially killed any excitement for a season 5. But, at least we still have season 2, which is legit one of the greatest seasons of television made.
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Dec 2, 2020 23:41
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3 A.M. Radio posted:Agreeing with most people in this thread. Was incredibly disappointed. It got to the point, after Josta and Oraetta were killed, I told my wife, "And now Loy is going to get killed by the criminal sister that got away." Everybody else was dead, they didn't touch on the sister again, and they just needed to add in one more shock death. I'm amazed he wasn't randomly shot instead of stabbed. Yeah, I definitely feel the same way. Season 3 fell apart in the last couple episodes for me but I thought maybe it was just a misstep. The season 4 trailer definitely had me excited again but at this point I won’t even bother watching if there’s a season 5.
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Dec 3, 2020 00:10
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Season 4 of this was worse than Season 2 of True Detective. I think if they had focused on just like 50% of the characters it could have been good.
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Dec 3, 2020 06:09
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frogbs posted:Season 4 of this was worse than Season 2 of True Detective. Woah now Let's not say things we can't take back
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Dec 3, 2020 06:43
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timp posted:Woah now Fargo season 5 needs Ray Velcro.
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Dec 3, 2020 07:18
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I was perplexed by the hate for season 3 which I thought was excellent, but this season was definitely a disappointment. I especially thought Olyphant and Huston were wasted. Both of their characters seemed to have pretty aimless stories.Comrade Fakename posted:Have you not looked at the top of a building in the last 20 years? Phone masts are everywhere, and that is clearly not 1951 technology. If you don't live in a city, you aren't going to see them on top of buildings very often. They are on dedicated towers instead. It didn't jump out at me when I watched it tough it is a pretty glaring mistake in retrospect
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Dec 3, 2020 07:53
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Pizza Segregationist posted:I especially thought Olyphant and Huston were wasted. Both of their characters seemed to have pretty aimless stories. Would have been cool if they had their own season instead of being on the backburner like this. The funeral home characters were all incredibly boring outside of the one money handoff scene with Chris Rock. They basically sat at the dinner table or went to school. I like Hawley and enjoyed everything he's done lately but maybe he's being overworked or something. Legion's last season and the Lucy diaper astronaut movie were made back to back, to the point where he had to hand off the final episode of Legion to someone else after directing half of it.
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Dec 3, 2020 08:25
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frogbs posted:Season 4 of this was worse than Season 2 of True Detective. No way, S2 of True Detective was dire, beyond the first episode or two.
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Dec 3, 2020 10:21
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u brexit ukip it posted:No way, S2 of True Detective was dire, beyond the first episode or two. Yeah, the finale to this was bad, but TD Season 2 was laughably incompetent.
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Dec 3, 2020 11:05
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This season was weird because examined separately the individual parts were good but it just never actually came together in a satisfying way.
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Dec 3, 2020 13:58
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Open Source Idiom posted:Yeah, the finale to this was bad, but TD Season 2 was laughably incompetent. Remember when Vince Vaughen walked until his feet bled and then walked some more
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Dec 3, 2020 15:21
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Remember the motorcycle cop who you could have removed entirely from the season and it literally would have made absolutely no difference whatsoever?
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Dec 3, 2020 22:05
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Jerusalem posted:Remember the motorcycle cop who you could have removed entirely from the season and it literally would have made absolutely no difference whatsoever? all i remember about him was that he was closeted and he found the body that kicked off the investigation but the body was found at a picnic table or something next to a highway. probably would have been found anyway
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Dec 4, 2020 01:27
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Jerusalem posted:Remember the motorcycle cop who you could have removed entirely from the season and it literally would have made absolutely no difference whatsoever? actually he was a Mormon in this
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Dec 4, 2020 01:37
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Beamed posted:actually he was a Mormon in this Ol' Deafy was a character who actually enriched scenes he was in at least!
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Dec 4, 2020 04:05
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Just finished the season and I have to agree with most of the issues with season 4. As flawed as season 3 was, it had a strong lead, a very memorable villain and some pretty great themes; season 1 was overall good and season 2 is just amazing; I just remembered Offerman's speech at the police station siege and the whole episode narrated by Martin Freeman and miss how good Fargo could be. Season 4 had none of it. Episode 9 had strong vibes of the things that the series could do, but the rest was just a mess. Chris Rock was miscast, but even with a better actor, I don't think the character would have fared much better. Jessie Buckley was great but I wish they had done more with the character, I felt they were trying to make her the Malvo/Hanzee/Varga of the season and didn't truly go for it. I think Season 1 and 3 work well as foils (both have a larger than life evil incarnate villain corrupting a foolish dude and a policewoman fighting against a useless system trying to do good), and season 2 and 4 do as well (instead of a "family business" vs "corporate structure", it's Italian-American criminals vs African American criminals, with a family accidentally getting in the way), but season 4 didn't add much of a spin into any of its concepts and ended up being the worst season so far. I hope we get Season 5 at some point (maybe this one will be set closer to the present? seems to be the setting for odd numbered seasons), but this has left me worried that Hawley is losing his touch.
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Dec 4, 2020 05:51
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Season 4 at least had the good point of introducing a lot of people who were previously unfamiliar with her (such as myself) to Jessie Buckley. That lady has all the potential to be an absolute megastar. 
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Dec 4, 2020 15:01
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