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The nice thing with actors is they perform under screen names all the time so you can talk about past roles without deadnaming them just by saying "starred in X under the screen name Y." Same as with Cat Stevens I guess. 7 is a number with all kinds of associations with luck, fortune, numerology, religious symbology, occult significance, etc., but the only place we commonly use a septenary number system is in keeping weeks. Guavanaut fucked around with this message at 21:35 on Dec 1, 2020 |
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Dec 1, 2020 21:33
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It took me a further ten minutes before I remembered the only reason I know the name was because of the last of us which I have not even played.
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Dec 1, 2020 21:34
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So did anybody else join the Northern Independence Party or is it only me that wants to see Labour suffer in its heartlands?
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Dec 1, 2020 21:37
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this is satire, right? right???
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Dec 1, 2020 21:41
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/8037794.stmBBC posted:The Crown Prosecution Service has said there is "insufficient evidence" for any charges in connection with David Abrahams' donations to Labour. Guess who was DPP at this point...
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Dec 1, 2020 21:48
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Noxville posted:So did anybody else join the Northern Independence Party or is it only me that wants to see Labour suffer in its heartlands? Hi
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Dec 1, 2020 21:54
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Lobster God posted:http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/8037794.stm Wistfully thinking back to 5+ years ago when this would be an explosive story that would destroy a party leader’s career
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Dec 1, 2020 22:18
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OwlFancier posted:It took me a further ten minutes before I remembered the only reason I know the name was because of the last of us which I have not even played. my first association with them was the bad david cage game (apologies for redundancy)
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Dec 1, 2020 22:26
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I also had a vague association with david cage but couldn't remember if I was just making it up.
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Dec 1, 2020 22:27
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lmao keith, you sure know how to pick em https://twitter.com/hapoelorient/status/1333835138380263424
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Dec 1, 2020 22:35
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Failed Imagineer posted:Canadian, early 30s, transitioning this week? Must be pretty neat that Elliot Page (formerly Ellen Page) also just announced the same Heh when I was saying "she"/"her" in relation to my friend, those are her new pronouns, so no sadly I do not know Elliot Page.
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Dec 1, 2020 22:41
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TheRat posted:lmao keith, you sure know how to pick em This just gets worse and worse: https://twitter.com/DawnHFoster/status/1333862616838660097?s=20 https://twitter.com/terryfuck45/status/1333872893965475840?s=20 So it turns out this loving weasel is not only a huge racist piece of poo poo, Starmer personally courted him to become a donor again, AND Starmer was Director of Public Prosecutions when the decision was made not to prosecute him for illegally funneling money to the Labour Party through proxies. https://twitter.com/terryfuck45/status/1333873665964974081?s=20
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Dec 1, 2020 22:50
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Camrath posted:Not a daft question at all! While some of my flavours do contain gluten, none of these do. The kitchen is a domestic one though, where we do cook with gluten containing items. So I can’t guarantee a lack of trace amounts. 
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Dec 1, 2020 22:57
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Guavanaut posted:The nice thing with actors is they perform under screen names all the time so you can talk about past roles without deadnaming them just by saying "starred in X under the screen name Y." Hot take - don't dead name someone unless they've said you can do it. Elliot Page is Elliot Page. For the next maybe week to month it's somewhat reasonable to refer to them as "Elliot Page, formerly known as Ellen Page", but IMO (and in the guidance given by various pro trans organisations) you're best off still avoiding it. "Star of Juno and the Umbrella Academy, Page has announced he is transgender and non-binary, Elliot's preferred pronouns are he/they". If you'd ever heard of Elliot beforehand, that sentence will identify exactly who you're talking about without ever deadnaming them. If Elliot releases a statement saying "Hey, you can refer to my old name as my former stage name" then fill your boots, but until then I'd steer clear.
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Dec 1, 2020 22:59
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mehall posted:Hot take - don't dead name someone unless they've said you can do it.  I've either misread the tone of this or it seems you're going a bit hard on this poster for something that doesn't appear altogether unreasonable. I mean sure, in a few months but literally an hour or two after the announcement it doesn't seem unreasonable to explain who this person is by reference to their immediately previous public identity.
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Dec 1, 2020 23:06
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i'm going to browbeat my northern living family members into voting NIP instead of labour over the next however many years
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Dec 1, 2020 23:08
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How is saying refer to them as "Elliot Page, formerly known as Ellen Page" any different to saying:Guavanaut posted:The nice thing with actors is they perform under screen names all the time so you can talk about past roles without deadnaming them just by saying "starred in X under the screen name Y." I mean that's literally the same thing?
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Dec 1, 2020 23:08
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Convex posted:
I maybe went in a bit hard, but the text of the post was saying that old roles could be talked about using the "former screen name", but it's still their dead name. A non celebrity equivalent would be "I dated him back when he was called Miranda" or something, it's still deadnaming them.
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Dec 1, 2020 23:09
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Skeletome posted:god all this trans news is just absolutely grim isn't it It's not cowardly, you're ready when you're ready, and it's never too late. (I knew at 19, transitioned at 40 and life is immesurably better than it was). The news sucks right now but it will get better, probably when everyone gets to go outside again and the keyboard warriors who are stirring up the worst of the poo poo are drowned out by the many, many more people who have our backs.
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Dec 1, 2020 23:09
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mehall posted:Hot take - don't dead name someone unless they've said you can do it. I had no idea he was in Umbrella Academy cos I don’t watch it and since that’s the work that pretty much every headline linked him with it took me a little while to actually put it together. ‘Don’t deadname ever’ yeah I know but it’s difficult to place the story in context when I don’t know who they’re talking about
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Dec 1, 2020 23:11
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It's a tricky one for actors where you're CV is pretty public
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Dec 1, 2020 23:14
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mehall posted:I maybe went in a bit hard, but the text of the post was saying that old roles could be talked about using the "former screen name", but it's still their dead name. no you are right Convex posted:
you still shouldn't refer to a trans person by their dead name, refer to what he did but don't use the old name, its even worse close to when you have come out, for moths after I came out I couldn't handle my friends using my deadname even when not referring to me.
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Dec 1, 2020 23:15
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mehall posted:I maybe went in a bit hard, but the text of the post was saying that old roles could be talked about using the "former screen name", but it's still their dead name. See this is where I feel that the entire positive impact of a celebrity announcing that they have transitioned is lost if you don't allow people to process what has actually changed. One day (hopefully soon) stories like this will no longer be as newsworthy because society will have progressed to a state of understanding which renders them less unusual, but at the moment I think there is value in explaining that a famous formerly female actor has now transitioned to a different gender identity and is known by a different name. If it's Jenny from the pub then sure that's different, but I would hope that Elliot Page the star of hugely successful movies and TV series realises the positive impact their story will have on thousands of ordinary trans peoples lives.
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Dec 1, 2020 23:18
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It also reveals one of the weird little things that we all take for granted but should probably be changed - Elliot Page has one multiple "Best Actress" awards, and it's strange that we still have "Best Actor" and "Best Actress" awards. There's no Oscar for "Best Woman Director" or "Best Sound Mixing By A Male", why do we still divvy up the on-screen talent by gender? (I'm aware the answer is that when all of these awards were established the roles of actor and actress were very, very different than they are now and there were very few women behind the camera at all - but I can see this being yet another front being opened up in the culture wars when one of the major awards decides to change this, and probably in the most clanging and inappropriate way possible. Also can't wait for the first TERF "It's ridiculous that this person is being offered this role instead of it going to someone with the exact genitals I've decided the character should have" take)
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Dec 1, 2020 23:23
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Rumda posted:no you are right I agree that deadnaming is hurtful and counter productive to a person's wellbeing and should be avoided, the only point that I want to make is that cis people without a good understanding of what it means to be transgender (particularly those of older generations where this was not something that was really experienced within their social groups) cannot take everything onboard straight away and therefore may need some explanation or guidance. This is only relevant in the immediate short term though, i.e. if my mum doesn't know who this person is that is in the news then explaining who they formerly identified as is helpful as a form of context, but it's not something that should ever need to be brought up again.
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Dec 1, 2020 23:23
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I'm going to be a bit flippant because I dunno what else to do. Does it seem a bit like Elliott feels obliged to keep a very similar name to his former deadname for societal/professional reasons? Did people less in the public eye do that? Like I always thought having a kid, the cool bit would be naming them whatever I want so definitely if I'm kind of giving birth to myself all over again I'm gonna choose a name without inhibition rather than one that's so closely tied to the name I'm escaping. Apologies if escaping is the wrong word there.
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Dec 1, 2020 23:25
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It's quite difficult to know how to refer to someone's past life though and with all the will in the world there are the inevitable slips when you've known someone by a different name for over 30 years, and also, when you're talking about 'before' when your family photos and events are from 'before'. You can't just delete all that. Slip ups are pretty rare now though - it's been about 10 years. My relative's parents tried so hard to always refer to 'our son' instead of 'our daughter' but they also hid all the old family group photos as well, they just weren't sure how to manage it. My relative is pretty relaxed about it though (with family anyway - obviously would be different with people who only got to know him in recent times). Ed: My relative's name is very different from before. Jaeluni Asjil fucked around with this message at 23:41 on Dec 1, 2020 |
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Dec 1, 2020 23:28
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goddamnedtwisto posted:It also reveals one of the weird little things that we all take for granted but should probably be changed - Elliot Page has one multiple "Best Actress" awards, and it's strange that we still have "Best Actor" and "Best Actress" awards. There's no Oscar for "Best Woman Director" or "Best Sound Mixing By A Male", why do we still divvy up the on-screen talent by gender? Linda Hunt in Year of Living Dangerously (1982) took on the male role of Billy Kwan. (She's now probably best known as Hetty from CSI Los Angeles). And then there was Tilda Swinton in a gender-fluid role in Orlando (1992). Probably more films but not that I can think of immediately. So can counter TERF arguments on the grounds that it's not new.
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Dec 1, 2020 23:34
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NotJustANumber99 posted:I'm going to be a bit flippant because I dunno what else to do. Does it seem a bit like Elliott feels obliged to keep a very similar name to his former deadname for societal/professional reasons? People do I really don't get it at all. It may just be because my old name was a family name and very tied to who everyone wanted me to be but I can't imagine having a similar name
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Dec 1, 2020 23:34
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OwlFancier posted:It took me a further ten minutes before I remembered the only reason I know the name was because of the last of us which I have not even played. He wasn't even in it! Naughty Dog were accused off copying his likeness and they tweaked the character model at some point before it came out so Ellie doesn't really look like him now. He was in that poo poo David Cage game though and he acted like they were close friends which clearly wasn't true - Cage is a creepy, creepy man.
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Dec 1, 2020 23:42
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stev posted:He wasn't even in it! Naughty Dog were accused off copying his likeness and they tweaked the character model at some point before it came out so Ellie doesn't really look like him now. Also there was that thing where David Cage got another female actor to do the nude bit where Page's character is having a shower and it turns out if you noclip then there is basically that character completely naked. Which Page understandably had a bit of a problem with considering appearing nude was not in the contract
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Dec 1, 2020 23:49
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What Guava said makes more sense if you swap "character name" for "stage name". The former being associated with a temporary role while the latter is more like their identity as a performer? So "Elliot Page who played Juno McGuff in the film Juno" is OK(right?), but a hypothetical "Mary Sinclair who performed as Vin Diesel" would not? One for the Northern Independence Party- what's your stance with respect to the Morecambe Bay Independents? Beastly splitters or avant garde?
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Dec 1, 2020 23:50
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At a time like this they need to be mercilessly crushed. Any other response from NIP suggests an unwillingness to do what's necessary.
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Dec 1, 2020 23:53
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Cameron coming into power to lead not only to the fracture of the UK but also England would be extremely funny
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Dec 1, 2020 23:56
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mehall posted:Hot take - don't dead name someone unless they've said you can do it. In Elliot's case the prior name that everyone knew him by was literally a screen name, not his birth name, so there's a bit of a different dynamic there to casually deadnaming someone or being malicious.
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Dec 2, 2020 00:02
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NotJustANumber99 posted:I'm going to be a bit flippant because I dunno what else to do. Does it seem a bit like Elliott feels obliged to keep a very similar name to his former deadname for societal/professional reasons? Perhaps he owns a lot of monogrammed shirts and ties and such.
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Dec 2, 2020 00:02
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sassassin posted:Perhaps he owns a lot of monogrammed shirts and ties and such. Cufflinks might be more likely?
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Dec 2, 2020 00:07
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Convex posted:I agree that deadnaming is hurtful and counter productive to a person's wellbeing and should be avoided, I really think you should have ended your post here, there are (as referenced in the original suggestion) a lot of ways to relate Elliot to his former roles without having to use a name he isn't using anymore.
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Dec 2, 2020 00:08
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goddamnedtwisto posted:It also reveals one of the weird little things that we all take for granted but should probably be changed - Elliot Page has one multiple "Best Actress" awards, and it's strange that we still have "Best Actor" and "Best Actress" awards. There's no Oscar for "Best Woman Director" or "Best Sound Mixing By A Male", why do we still divvy up the on-screen talent by gender? there's an argument to be made that if the academy wasn't forced to give awards to actresses and we had two best actor awards, they'd both go to men nine times out of ten. this is not because men are innately superior actors, but because the academy is a pile of old wank
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Dec 2, 2020 00:09
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Guavanaut posted:The way they've done it with journalism is "X formally wrote for the paper under the pen name Y" which carries the continuity of the journalist without making it an issue, which seems to work well. Ehhh, that's unclear to me, the only difference (ignoring middle name) between his birth name and later acting name was dropping his mum's "Philpotts" part of "Philpotts-Page" and unless you have any detail I don't, it's unclear to me if that was an assumed name for the stage, or an actual name change. (Though either way it was likely a choice made for career progression, as I've not seen any particular indication of issues between Elliot and his mum) There are occasions where the former name will be relevant, as Actors Guild credits are a serious thing, ask Michael Keaton who has to be called Michael Keaton because Michael Douglas was already taken, but unless you're talking about one of those scenarios, all the advice I'm seeing from trans rights groups is to identify him via previous roles whilst avoiding the previous name.
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Dec 2, 2020 00:13
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