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Marvin K. Mooney posted:A guy in Sweden was making these green sciences and I managed to snag one. Best game ever. If you thought this was cool the guy opened a webshop here.
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Dec 2, 2020 18:35
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When that patch does finally run out you get to keep the speed modules when you rip it up and move it elsewhere, so it will eventually pay for itself in that respect. Might be interesting to do the math on that later. Personally I'd just go look for more patches, but depends on how much you enjoy setting up new outposts.
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Dec 2, 2020 18:39
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Factorio math time: tldr; A module in a processing unit assember is worth 4x a module in a miner, 3x for an advanced circuit, 2.5x for a basic circuit, 1.3x for copper wire Lets say you've got a nice little megafacotry, producing a metric truckload of blue circuits, the astronomical 1 blue belt worth, 2700/min. (I'll drop in the daily reminder that you should only use the blue belts themselves when you have space constraints, like right next to your assembler lines or train stations, yellow belts for everything else) Beacon free this requires 360 assembling machine 3's (plus all the intermediates, i'll get to that) and 40 blue belts worth of copper from 3600 miners which sound like a lot but miners and trains are cheap and easy. You can reduce this to 1440 miners filled with 4320 speed 3 modules. 184 blue circuit assemblers holding 4 productivity 3 modules each, with speed beacons covering 4 assemblers per. A total of about 1100 Level 3 modules. At this point if you beacon nothing else it requires 29 blue belts of copper. 2572 miners, 1030 miners if you add in 3090 speed 3 modules. Lets now beacon our RED circuits, since they're the next most expensive part of the chain. 1100 modules for the blue circuits + (158 assembers with beacons for red) 950 = 2050 modules total. Cutting our copper mining requirement down to 26 blue belts, 2388 base miners. 956 with 2868 modules. One step more, green circuits. 2050 + 900 = 2950 level 3 modules. Further reducing copper down to 20 blue belts, half of our initial input. 1900 basic miners. Now beacon all the copper wire, 2950 + 1080 = 4030 modules. 14 blue belts of copper down to 1256 miners. or 503 with 1509 modules. RCUs do also have a huge bonus when used with productivity modules but because they are made so slowly the ROI makes more sense to beacon down to red circuits first and use that increased throughput to make more modules faster before beaconing RCUs. necrotic posted:When you have high mining productivity speed modules make a ton of sense. Patches eventually become essentially infinite and you just need the throughput per patch. Yes absolutely, but if you ever reach that point you're far along the megabase and space science tree and at that point you may well be running out of factories to put modules into in the first place.
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Dec 2, 2020 18:46
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... man, I'm going to have to build a new circuit assembler setup at some point, huh. My current one works fine when I have a copper supply, but no room for beacons and I'm rapidly approaching even blue belt throughput limits unless I start chaining in more supply elsewhere (and even that will cap out pretty fast, only so many belts I can cram in there). Saving copper would be nice. Probably spend more than I'd save at the small scales I work at though.
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Dec 2, 2020 18:53
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M_Gargantua posted:Spending 500,000 Copper to mine copper faster, its so beautifully inefficient I love it so much. That is quite possibly one of the least efficient uses of modules I have ever seen. Everything else on the planet is beaconed and moduled, and modules can be re-used infinitely. Modules are better used in miners than sitting in a chest waiting to be used more efficiently somewhere else! I am probably over-producing modules, but max-efficiency isn't really my thing in Factorio like it is for some people. I never open a spreadsheet and only do 'calculations' in the sense that I have max-rate calculator installed so I can figure out ratios easily. I definitely fall into the 'more is better' method of Factorio players.
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Dec 2, 2020 18:57
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M_Gargantua posted:
Yeah I assumed that's where the screenshot came from: a very late stage base. It's the last thing you should module but it's by no means idiotic.
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Dec 2, 2020 19:24
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I usually switch to bot based mining late game, it works a lot better. Just make sure each patch is an isolated network and you're good.
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Dec 2, 2020 19:35
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My bots are weeping just having a handful run ammo out to my walls, I can't imagine trying to get that much throughput with that dumb of robots.
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Dec 2, 2020 19:52
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SkyeAuroline posted:My bots are weeping just having a handful run ammo out to my walls, I can't imagine trying to get that much throughput with that dumb of robots. It's actually not bad at all, a resource patch is a small area. As long as it's not connected to any other bot network and you dump a few hundred bots in, it will work really well. The trick is that you only have providers on the miners and requesters on the train station, and no other chests in the network.
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Dec 2, 2020 19:59
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SkyeAuroline posted:My bots are weeping just having a handful run ammo out to my walls, I can't imagine trying to get that much throughput with that dumb of robots. As mentioned it would be a local network, they simply deliver to the chests that load a train probably. You would deliver however many robots are required to service that patch, 200, or 500 or whatever, and they never go anywhere except back and forth from the loading station and the miners (and the roboports supporting all of this of course). Very short distances involved makes robots very efficient. The miners would mine into supply chests the robots would pick up from I assume, I've never actually tried setting up a robot based mining outpost, but I've done local networks with robots supplying all the assemblers to make the different science packs from a train supply depot.
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Dec 2, 2020 20:00
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VostokProgram posted:I usually switch to bot based mining late game, it works a lot better. Just make sure each patch is an isolated network and you're good. Once you get enough mining productivity just mine straight into train cars.
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Dec 2, 2020 20:46
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necrotic posted:Once you get enough mining productivity just mine straight into train cars. interesting, what level productivity do you cut over?
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Dec 2, 2020 20:51
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I’ve got another LTN question. Suppose I have an LTN station that provides green circuits. I want to be able to load trains with up to 3 wagons. How do I avoid problems if a train with 3 wagons comes wanting 2.5 wagons of green circuits, but I only have circuits available in the buffers for 2 of the 3 wagons? In other words, should I try to be load balancing the chests hooked up to the LTN train stop?
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Dec 2, 2020 21:31
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I have not touched modules at all. I finally set up a few assemblers in my mall to work on them, but is there a primer on when/why to use them? Or should I just assume that they’re good where there are bottlenecks and I shouldn’t worry about power because more nuclear generators? (Which reminds me I should put some storage tanks on nuclear to let some power accumulate there...)
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Dec 2, 2020 21:34
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Hey guys, me and a friend have been playing the game a lot, but we feel like we’ve reached the endgame, we have a really good factory, were launching satellites and rockets constantly, we have the infestations under control... and quite frankly we don’t know what else to do with the game... is there any other interesting play styles or mods for us to try in multiplayer? Any ways to add new twists and stuff?
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Dec 2, 2020 21:35
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Krastorio 2, it's what I'm immediately jumping into when I'm done with Vanilla. Also incredibly envious of the fact you've got a friend who enjoys playing Factorio as much as you.
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Dec 2, 2020 21:38
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boo_radley posted:interesting, what level productivity do you cut over? I don't know if the math is still 100% accurate but I posted this last year. necrotic posted:With 3x Speed module 3's you get a base speed of 1.25 items/second. Each lane in a blue belt moves 22.5 items/second. At productivity 180 (1800% bonus) you can fill a single lane with a single miner. If you surround the miner with 12x beacons full of level 3 modules you get 4.25/s base, bringing the productivity level required down to 43. Fully surrounding with beacons means you can't have a miner on each side, though. You can get 10 beacons still, at 3.75/s and level 50 for saturation. So around level 180 it becomes viable 
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Dec 2, 2020 21:42
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nrook posted:I’ve got another LTN question. Yes, there are some pretty straightforward circuits you can make for the inserters that fill the chests that supply the wagons. I don't remember the details entirely but you link all the chests together to get the total, multiply by negative one, divide by the count of chests to get a mean, then for each inserter combine that signal with that chest's total. If the value is positive that one chest is overfull and you disable the inserter. Then they all eventually fill up to the average amount. You'll need a balancer upstream somewhere so that one or more lines aren't starved and lag behind the rest slowing everything down but that's good practice anyway.
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Dec 2, 2020 21:46
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Arcturas posted:I have not touched modules at all. I finally set up a few assemblers in my mall to work on them, but is there a primer on when/why to use them? Or should I just assume that they’re good where there are bottlenecks and I shouldn’t worry about power because more nuclear generators? Power usage ramps up significantly with them, especially with beacons involved, so just make sure you don't accidentally cause blackouts by laying down a new factory section with them and stalling your fuel feeds. As per the mathspost upthread, modules are generally most effective on high tier end-products, but you'll start to see when they're worth the investment elsewhere once you can afford to throw them around more. You can of course launch rockets without even bothering with them, or beacons, but it can save a few trainloads of materials over an hour of playing.
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Dec 2, 2020 22:12
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necrotic posted:Once you get enough mining productivity just mine straight into train cars.  Will fill all 8 train cars in six seconds flat. Drawing 1.4GW of power. Mod is Texugo TA miners, which adds 3 sizes of giant hyper expensive mining drills (named and modeled after Total Annihilation ones). They're great because you can generally just use three or four to cover even a very large ore patch, and when you're being greedy you can module and beacon them to hell much easier than stock miners.
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Dec 2, 2020 22:23
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Arcturas posted:I have not touched modules at all. I finally set up a few assemblers in my mall to work on them, but is there a primer on when/why to use them? Or should I just assume that they’re good where there are bottlenecks and I shouldn’t worry about power because more nuclear generators? Once you got productivity 1 and speed 1 automated for the science you can start adding them to relevant parts of your factory, especially after you have gone nuclear. And especially after the recent buff to prod 1 and 2. Put prod modules into everything that is starved for input, starting at the end of your factory (the labs). Put speed modules in when you don't have space for a second assembler. Higher modules are generally only good once you get beaconing. Then you run speed 3 beacons and prod 3 modules in everything. Exceptions are your rocket pad (prod 3), labs (as much prod as you have) and kovarex (as much speed as you have).
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Dec 2, 2020 22:59
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M_Gargantua posted:
I was gonna say, before I read the post I thought "Big Moho miner energy here" Arm had the cooler designs tbh
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Dec 2, 2020 23:04
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It really seems like a massive oversight that you can build technicals, tanks and giant spider robots, but you can't build some Bagger 288-esque monstrosity to roam and dig up the land in
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Dec 2, 2020 23:28
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The lack of any drill upgrade after the early-unlock electric mining drill still does surprise me somewhat.
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Dec 2, 2020 23:29
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Fuzzy Mammal posted:Yes, there are some pretty straightforward circuits you can make for the inserters that fill the chests that supply the wagons. Makes sense, thanks!
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Dec 3, 2020 00:15
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VictualSquid posted:Efficiency modules are pretty useless. I put 3 efficiency 1 modules into my miners out of habit from before nuclear. And I put efficiency modules into assemblers that can't take productivity and are bottlenecked by inserters, mostly to make them fit in better. Thanks! This is super handy. Clearly I should have been manufacturing these way earlier and in greater quantities. I just barely set up one tier 2 assembler making first level modules, feeding into one for each of the second levels, into one for each of the third levels. Looks like it’s time to figure out another iron & copper belt so I can add another belt of greens & reds! (I actually hand-made all the modules that went into my power armor mk 2, which took forever, so I set up the tiny assembly lines to get what I needed for my SPIDERTRON! Which is stunningly amazing and has made me so much more confident wrecking biters.) Though the giant robot now makes me want to manufacture a few more fusion generators and shield and personal laser defenses so I can stomp biters without worry, and without completely zeroing my rocket supply all the time. Speaking of which, do exoskeletons speed up spidertrons, or just personal walking? E: Wallrod, I also meant to say thanks to you, too!
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Dec 3, 2020 02:36
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NP! and yeah, spidertrons use electro-gams.
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Dec 3, 2020 02:39
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Is there a way to get the personal interface back from 1.0 in the 1.1x beta? I miss the little display showing me my max power generation, battery full status, etc. I know I can mouse over the armor icon in the bottom left (which seems like the only way to access your armor’s inventory now?), but that doesn’t show both max consumption and max production of power, which was handy for figuring out the right number of solar cells and exoskeletons and whatnot. This will also be helpful if I make walking legs for my spider, since I assume those will need external power too.
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Dec 3, 2020 03:04
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nrook posted:I’ve got another LTN question. Yea, I would suggest a circuit controlled balancer behind a mechanical balancer like Fuzzy Mammal mentioned. If for some reason you can't do that, you could have a circuit that does min(sum(chests for car 1), sum(chests for car 2), .. N) * (N cars) and use that as the supplied number.
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Dec 3, 2020 05:29
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SkyeAuroline posted:The lack of any drill upgrade after the early-unlock electric mining drill still does surprise me somewhat. It makes sense with the productivity research. The main buildings that only have one tier have research that makes them go faster, so they don't need extra tiers (science and mining drills). Annnnd then you remember the fluid workflows. I still hate how there is only one tier for those, modules/beacons just don't feel like enough. That's one of my biggest gripes when playing the game unmodded, along with roboports. You gotta spam the everliving hell out of those things if you want a bot-heavy base, to the point that they take up like 1/4 of your ground area.
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Dec 3, 2020 08:17
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Speaking of upgrades, I'm working on a mod to increase power output/efficiency without just adding high-tier replacements. My unpolished proof-of-concept is the "combustion superheater": a modded boiler that takes 165°C steam as input and heats it to 465°C. It heats 60 units/second and consumes 1.8 MW of fuel with 200% efficiency at max speed. When fed into a turbine, this gives you 3x the energy output for 2x the fuel. I'm also considering adding a superheater powered by reactor heatpipes as well, but this won't have the efficiency bonus and instead just serves as a buff to power density and reduction in pipe spaghetti (this would also involve bumping up the max input temperature on turbines to 985°C). The planned progression is thus: 1. boilers feeding steam engines 2. a pre-nuclear tech to unlock turbines and combustion superheaters 3. vanilla nukes 4. superheating exchangers (on the fence about this being a separate unlock from reactors/heat exchangers) I could make the superheating exchangers also have an efficiency bonus but that would also involve modifying the vanilla exchangers and I prefer to leave vanilla stuff untouched where possible.
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Dec 3, 2020 11:40
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Can you do a "Combustion Efficiency" Tech that just adds a flat small bonus to all fuel types? Like 5% 10% 20% 30% since those are still small enough bonus's that they don't completely break vanilla fuel flow
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Dec 3, 2020 14:49
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Somebody should make a mod where instead of wiring up logic with separate buildings, you program PLCs on the circuit network instead. Could have a CPU in one location with RIO modules for input/output on the machines you’re controlling. I’ll join the mod team as the ideas guy, just need a programmer and we’re good to go!
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Dec 3, 2020 18:09
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M_Gargantua posted:Can you do a "Combustion Efficiency" Tech that just adds a flat small bonus to all fuel types? Can't be done, and what do you mean by "completely break vanilla fuel flow"?
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Dec 3, 2020 22:26
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I'm honestly surprised that Factorio doesn't have oil-fired boilers that are in between the current boilers and nuclear. Just seems like such an obvious thing, but maybe there was a reason they never did that (no real need I guess due to the multitude of different fuels you can feed to the existing boilers?).
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Dec 4, 2020 01:06
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Fluid handling has always been the red-headed stepchild, presumably they figure solid fuel recipes make oil-fired boilers unnecessary.
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Dec 4, 2020 01:19
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Krastorio has gas power plants, that can burn either petroleum gas or bio-methanol (which needs a few steps to make, but essentially only needs water and power as an input)
Tamba fucked around with this message at 01:36 on Dec 4, 2020 |
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Dec 4, 2020 01:26
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I would never use it because all the oil goes to plastic and sulfur
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Dec 4, 2020 01:30
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Pyanadon mods have a way to turn excess gas/liquids into power. If you add steam and coal you can make really efficient combustion mix which generates power directly.
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Dec 4, 2020 02:07
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Selklubber posted:Somebody should make a mod where instead of wiring up logic with separate buildings, you program PLCs on the circuit network instead. Could have a CPU in one location with RIO modules for input/output on the machines you’re controlling. I’ll join the mod team as the ideas guy, just need a programmer and we’re good to go! https://mods.factorio.com/mod/fcpu
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Dec 4, 2020 02:38
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