|
On one hand, I get it - brand loyalty can be silly. But also this laptop I bought in 2014 poo poo the bed in 2016 after two arduous years of never physically moving off my TV stand and only being used for a few hours per week of casual use connected to my TV for watching netflix / local media  Like I said, I have tried half a dozen AMD/ATI computers and GPUs since my first computer in 2000 and every AMD was crap and every ATI was full of driver issues. Obviously a computer isn't as serious of a purchase as a car, but like if I bought 4 Fords and every Ford exhibited problems/outright died, why would I ever buy a Ford again?
|
#
?
Dec 4, 2020 15:29
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 27, 2024 05:34 |
|
|
Did the processor die in that laptop? Gonna be honest man, you're going to end up the odd man out here, that seems ridiculous, and I'll be charitable and say at the moment it comes off like you don't actually understand who makes what in a laptop. AMD sold a board to ASUS who made and is responsible for everything else, including the cooling solutions in the laptop. Laptops, FWIW, are not meant to run in a TV stand, you know? There's always circumstances. It's just a piece of hardware. Did you know there was a HUGE recall of millions of nvidia GPU laptops, including Apple, who ever since basically will never deal with nvidia again? It's tech, you have to play it cycle by cycle. bus hustler fucked around with this message at 15:34 on Dec 4, 2020 |
|
#
?
Dec 4, 2020 15:30
|
|
|
I’ve been building for >20 years and every rig has switched brands. AMD and Intel trade the top spot every 7-10 years. Pentium II begat Athlon Thunderbird, begat Core 2 Duo...and on and on. AMD is definitely king right now, and not in one area: they dominate budget, gaming, and workstation CPUs. If you have a viable upgrade path, stick with Intel. But if you are building from scratch, you will get far more performance per dollar with Ryzen CPUs. To be honest, even if you have a viable upgrade path, you’ll get more bang for the buck upgrading the GPU and leaving the processor alone.
|
|
#
?
Dec 4, 2020 15:38
|
|
|
To be fair, the CPU line-ups right now are close enough in the gaming-only use case that you're not losing out on much with the "worse" option (and there's the stock situation on top of that). But for stuff like heavy multithreaded work or thermally constrained small form factor builds it's more like intentionally crippling your own PC.Sab669 posted:Obviously a computer isn't as serious of a purchase as a car, but like if I bought 4 Fords and every Ford exhibited problems/outright died, why would I ever buy a Ford again?
|
|
#
?
Dec 4, 2020 15:38
|
|
|
Sab669 posted:but like if I bought 4 Fords and every Ford exhibited problems/outright died, why would I ever buy a Ford again? I guarantee the AMD processor in your computers has never failed. Absolutely guarantee it. We've been nice but I'll answer your car analogy with the truth: Because you don't actually know what you are talking about, and that is obvious to everyone who does.
|
|
#
?
Dec 4, 2020 15:42
|
|
|
Sab669 posted:Making up my mind on a brand isn't the same as making up my mind on a part. If someone was like "i9's are absolute overkill for 99% of uses, just save the money and get a cheaper i7 instead" or "Nah that mobo sucks, this is better" I'd certainly be happy to hear things out. It’s not likely you’re setting your money on fire by buying intel, but you are spending more and getting less for no reason other than that you’ve decided to suck on intel’s dick a little based on their previous reputation. If you don’t trust the consensus of a :goonrush: then watch this video, with hard rear end data, that has additional links to hours of content on benchmarks. https://youtu.be/43pa3Y4Nqa8 They literally had to make up a situation just so they could recommend an intel chip at least once.
|
|
#
?
Dec 4, 2020 15:45
|
|
|
Sab669 posted:On one hand, I get it - brand loyalty can be silly. But also this laptop I bought in 2014 poo poo the bed in 2016 after two arduous years of never physically moving off my TV stand and only being used for a few hours per week of casual use connected to my TV for watching netflix / local media I already responded, but this is a straight misunderstanding of PC hardware and how the market works. A.) there is actually zero chance the CPU in that laptop failed. For a lot of reasons. The failure is entirely on Asus. Additionally, it’s not actually that weird it failed in two years. You drew the unlucky straw that exists in all electronics: They sometimes fail for no reason. It happens and you either get warranty support or you deal. B.) there’s only really been huge amounts of consumer side hardcore benchmarking of parts of the last 5 years or so. Before that, there was mostly anecdotal evidence from forums or marketing benchmarks to go on, which lead to less consensus on what’s good. Now there’s so much independent high quality research that it’s very easy to figure out what’s good and what’s poo poo. C.) the car analogy is bad because there are tons of car manufactures. Think of it this way. The only car manufactures that exist are Ford and Toyota. You bought a few Toyotas over the years you didn’t like. So you stopped buying Toyota. But now Toyota has gone to poo poo. And it’s clearly objective they’re a bad buy. And there’s proven research Fords are better in every single category possible. But you’re still going to buy that Ford because Toyota was mean to you that one time.
|
|
#
?
Dec 4, 2020 15:59
|
|
|
Sab669 posted:On one hand, I get it - brand loyalty can be silly. But also this laptop I bought in 2014 poo poo the bed in 2016 after two arduous years of never physically moving off my TV stand and only being used for a few hours per week of casual use connected to my TV for watching netflix / local media Have you ever had a job where there was a change in management that resulted in a weaker showing compared to the competition? Or literally one of hundreds of any other factors that meant the company didn't do as well as whatever it was doing? Or maybe even the place you were working for decided to spend some time on research or internal systems, and the output the public saw wasn't as strong for a while? Because I've definitely witnessed all of the above! It's all a normal part of the working world and these things fluctuate. I don't think its the same team making the Ryzen that was making whatever part you hated in the year 2000. Edit: the above is also probably why Intel is weaker right now. They're probably in a big R&D phase and aren't ready to release some great big showstopper. Yes, there can be cultures endemic to certain companies that sometimes warrants a boycott or whatever. I don't think a dodgy bit of PC hardware 20 (or even 6) years ago really belongs in that bracket. Also, laptops can be finicky and die because there's a lot of hardware packed into a 'lil slab. It probably wasn't the CPU, but some aspect of the laptop's construction.
|
|
#
?
Dec 4, 2020 16:02
|
|
|
I was team Intel forever until I actually built this PC (my first tower, previously I was all laptops) and realized that AMD was, and has been, a way better value for a while. Well, when you could actually purchase things at MSRP...
|
|
#
?
Dec 4, 2020 16:07
|
|
|
bus hustler posted:I guarantee the AMD processor in your computers has never failed. Absolutely guarantee it. We've been nice but I'll answer your car analogy with the truth: Agreeing with this. CPUs are designed to protect themselves from idiots who are trying to learn overclocking. Its hard to kill one even when you are loving around. Almost all the time its a capacitor on the mobo that failed, not the cpu. That would make this the laptop makers fault: ASUS I'm team overclocking potential, we shall see who this is next time I need a new CPU.
|
|
#
?
Dec 4, 2020 16:09
|
|
|
change my name posted:I was team Intel forever until I actually built this PC (my first tower, previously I was all laptops) and realized that AMD was, and has been, a way better value for a while. Well, when you could actually purchase things at MSRP... To be honest Intel might still be better for laptops for all I know? There's so much weird business stuff related to laptop manufacturing that who knows. But for desktops, I mean - AMD even comes with a cooler!
|
|
#
?
Dec 4, 2020 16:09
|
|
|
bus hustler posted:Did the processor die in that laptop? Gonna be honest man, you're going to end up the odd man out here, that seems ridiculous, and I'll be charitable and say at the moment it comes off like you don't actually understand who makes what in a laptop. AMD sold a board to ASUS who made and is responsible for everything else, including the cooling solutions in the laptop. I mean maybe it was the motherboard and not the CPU specifically, I don't use my laptops frequently enough to warrant sending it out for repair/diagnosis (died just after the warranty, of course) so I just scrapped it and have't had a laptop since. By contrast the laptop I owned before that was some low-budget Acer with a Pentium that I abused the hell out of, throw it in my laptop bag still on and throw it in my trunk etc. and it ran perfectly for 5+ years. You cannot convince me I harmed the laptop by leaving it stationary on a desk for 2 years lol. Plenty of airflow, light work load. Fine, blame it on ASUS - I've had a lot of QC issues with them between that laptop and 2 different monitors, as well as another friend who had problems with ASUS. I get what you're saying, I do understand it's not that AMD makes every motherboard and every CPU/GPU in the world; they have their partners and some are better than others. Just like Nvidia, generally speaking, designs cards for EVGA or MSI or Gigabyte to produce. Same as AMD has Sapphire and whoever else. Or how Asus bought a disk from Western Digital or Seagate and stuffed it in there. Toxic Fart Syndrome posted:I’ve been building for >20 years and every rig has switched brands. AMD and Intel trade the top spot every 7-10 years. Pentium II begat Athlon Thunderbird, begat Core 2 Duo...and on and on. I'll be keeping my new GPU, DDR4 RAM, 3 SSDs and 1 HDD. Just looking to un-bottleneck my 3070 that should be arriving just in time for Cyberpunk, as I currently have an i5 6500. Kingnothing posted:It’s not likely you’re setting your money on fire by buying intel, but you are spending more and getting less for no reason other than that you’ve decided to suck on intel’s dick a little based on their previous reputation. I accept I might be overpaying for peace of mind based on anecdotal experience, and frankly I'm OK with that. I appreciate the video. Anyways, I'mma stop reading/responding because you guys don't really seem interested in having a discussion about what I'm willing to buy, so you guys can move on to another discussion
|
|
#
?
Dec 4, 2020 16:10
|
|
|
Sab669 posted:I get what you're saying, I do understand it's not that AMD makes every motherboard and every CPU/GPU in the world; they have their partners and some are better than others. Just like Nvidia, generally speaking, designs cards for EVGA or MSI or Gigabyte to produce. Same as AMD has Sapphire and whoever else. Or how Asus bought a disk from Western Digital or Seagate and stuffed it in there. AMD does not make motherboards at all?
|
|
#
?
Dec 4, 2020 16:14
|
|
|
Sab669 posted:
AMD doesn't make motherboards. edit: I don't know what you mean, genuinely! If your motherboard failed, it has nothing to do with AMD. Motherboards and CPUs don't work the same way as GPU processors and 3rd party cards. I think AMD only designs the socket for a motherboard, but the rest is up to the manufacturer. This is different to GPUs, where Nvidia/AMD create a reference card. The Grumbles fucked around with this message at 16:18 on Dec 4, 2020 |
|
#
?
Dec 4, 2020 16:15
|
|
|
You know what I mean, now you're just being overly pedantic. But for real this time unbookmarking the thread and will be back next time I have a question :bye: (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
|
|
#
?
Dec 4, 2020 16:15
|
|
|
Sab669 posted:I mean maybe it was the motherboard and not the CPU specifically, I don't use my laptops frequently enough to warrant sending it out for repair/diagnosis (died just after the warranty, of course) so I just scrapped it and have't had a laptop since. By contrast the laptop I owned before that was some low-budget Acer with a Pentium that I abused the hell out of, throw it in my laptop bag still on and throw it in my trunk etc. and it ran perfectly for 5+ years. You cannot convince me I harmed the laptop by leaving it stationary on a desk for 2 years lol. Plenty of airflow, light work load. Fine, blame it on ASUS - I've had a lot of QC issues with them between that laptop and 2 different monitors, as well as another friend who had problems with ASUS. Lol. It’s literally like you actually didn’t read a single word anyone said to you. Amd does not make motherboards. They did not make the motherboard on your asus. It’s not AMDs fault your Asus laptop died, just like intel is not the reason your Acer laptop survived. Edit: Sab669 posted:You know what I mean, now you're just being overly pedantic. But for real this time unbookmarking the thread and will be back next time I have a question :bye: Double lol
|
|
#
?
Dec 4, 2020 16:16
|
|
|
Sab669 posted:You know what I mean, now you're just being overly pedantic. But for real this time unbookmarking the thread and will be back next time I have a question :bye: Dude we are just giving accurate information. I don't know what you mean other then what you say. You seem very confused on who makes computer parts and what goes wrong with them and we are just correcting misinformation from appearing in the thread. This would be no different if you waked into a cooking thread and started saying salt kills people.
|
|
#
?
Dec 4, 2020 16:20
|
|
|
The car analogy doesn't even work, because they should be mad at Asus, who made the "car" and not AMD who made the "engine," but whatever. I totally get being tainted on a brand, but the hardware market is so fluid it isn't worth keeping a grudge.Kingnothing posted:B.) there’s only really been huge amounts of consumer side hardcore benchmarking of parts of the last 5 years or so. Before that, there was mostly anecdotal evidence from forums or marketing benchmarks to go on, which lead to less consensus on what’s good. Dayumn look at who never read Anandtech back when Anand was still there... 
|
|
#
?
Dec 4, 2020 16:26
|
|
|
don't listen to the toxic amd fanboys sab. if the AMD carburetor in my Mustang failed, I wouldn't blame Ford either
|
|
#
?
Dec 4, 2020 16:26
|
|
|
Okay, actual computer building question: The be quiet! CPU cooler I ordered is coming today, and from the Amazon reviews, it has thermal paste pre-applied much like the stock Wraith cooler. My 3060 ti should get here... eventually. I'm good to just swap this stuff in the case, right? No need to take the mobo out?
|
|
#
?
Dec 4, 2020 16:29
|
|
|
Also I even said Intel was fine if the price is good & you can't get AMD at MSRP (which *is* a real problem right now) poo poo, if I was building a system specifically to overclock I would probably get an i9-10900k, a mobo with some super monster VRMs and a fuckoff huge AIO and go nuts. Overclocking AMD for gaming is usually worthless to an outright net negative vs. just buying some fast RAM and remembering to turn XMP on. change my name posted:Okay, actual computer building question: The be quiet! CPU cooler I ordered is coming today, and from the Amazon reviews, it has thermal paste pre-applied much like the stock Wraith cooler. My 3060 ti should get here... eventually. I'm good to just swap this stuff in the case, right? No need to take the mobo out? Unless the cooler makes you change the stock backplate, which for AM4 is basically never but seems pretty common with intel for whatever reason.
|
|
#
?
Dec 4, 2020 16:30
|
|
|
change my name posted:Okay, actual computer building question: The be quiet! CPU cooler I ordered is coming today, and from the Amazon reviews, it has thermal paste pre-applied much like the stock Wraith cooler. My 3060 ti should get here... eventually. I'm good to just swap this stuff in the case, right? No need to take the mobo out? Installing the cooler might require you to have access behind the cpu to install the backplate.
|
|
#
?
Dec 4, 2020 16:31
|
|
|
sean10mm posted:
I'm on an AM4 mount swapping out the stock Ryzen cooler, and from the reviews it seems like it'll be fine? so fingers crossed Edit: yeah my case has a cutout behind the CPU for exactly this purpose, I assume change my name fucked around with this message at 16:51 on Dec 4, 2020 |
|
#
?
Dec 4, 2020 16:34
|
|
|
sean10mm posted:Also I even said Intel was fine if the price is good & you can't get AMD at MSRP (which *is* a real problem right now) People try to bring up microcenter often because AMD is only better at MSRP. Sales and pandemic demand can throw all that out the window. https://www.microcenter.com/product/623048/intel-core-i7-10700k-comet-lake-38ghz-eight-core-lga-1200-boxed-processor $320 for 8 cores and 16 threads is not a bad deal.
|
|
#
?
Dec 4, 2020 16:39
|
|
|
Hello. I have not owned a gaming or even Windows PC in decades. What country are you in? USA What are you using the system for? Gaming, only. I have a Mac that I do all my work on. What's your budget? Unknown at the moment. Money isn't tight. At this point I'm just trying to build up my mental models about the options. I have monitors but probably need a mouse, definitely need a keyboard and windows license. If you're gaming, what is your monitor resolution / refresh rate? I own this monitor. https://www.rtings.com/monitor/reviews/benq/ew3270u So that's up to 4k and 60hz. It's FreeSync which I think means I need to go AMD graphic card? How fancy do you want your graphics, from “it runs” to “Ultra preset as fast as possible”? I'm excited about getting back on Windows for three reasons: First is all the indie games that never come out for Mac or console, Second is games that do best with a mouse (Paradox Grand strategy games, Anno 1800, Total War) Third is RPGs to mod (Cyberpunk 2077 maybe?) I've got plenty of console for AAA controller type games. So for the most part, these are older games.It'd be nice to hit 1080 or 1440 at 60 Hz with many bells and whistles. It seems like my first and second reasons mean I don't need the latest and greatest, but if I have ambitions for the Third I'm going to need something more powerful. I'm probably not buying this machine until next year. From lurking so far, it seems like the AMD Ryzen chips are the best bang for the buck and the high end AMD and Nvidia are equally unavailable. And I think my monitor does better with AMD? But I don't really understand the difference between a 3600, 3700 etc. Or for that matter a 3070 vs 3060 vs 6800XT vs 5700. E: Oh, I want a machine that is quiet. My MacBook and PS4 both sound like jet engines.
|
|
#
?
Dec 4, 2020 16:47
|
|
|
spunkshui posted:Installing the cooler might require you to have access behind the cpu to install the backplate. Even then, most cases have a lurid little peephole at the back that lets you get your grubby fingers at the backplate without taking the mobo out.
|
|
#
?
Dec 4, 2020 16:50
|
|
|
doingitwrong posted:Hello. I have not owned a gaming or even Windows PC in decades. Can you be more firm on your budget? Like wanted budget + max budget? Do you want 4k@60 access or no? Because 4k@60 is doable for sure if you have the budget for it. $15 SA mart windows license will do ya good. Quiet isn’t too hard as long as you spend the money on aftermarket cooling.
|
|
#
?
Dec 4, 2020 16:51
|
|
|
A freesync monitor doesn't lock you into an AMD video card anymore, most of them work with nvidia graphics cards that run gsync now.
|
|
#
?
Dec 4, 2020 17:01
|
|
|
doingitwrong posted:If you're gaming, what is your monitor resolution / refresh rate? I own this monitor. https://www.rtings.com/monitor/reviews/benq/ew3270u So that's up to 4k and 60hz. It's FreeSync which I think means I need to go AMD graphic card? The RTings review says they tested it with an NVIDIA card using G-Sync over the DisplayPort, and it worked perfectly. That said, you still are not bound to either NVIDIA or AMD anyway, if you don't care about variable refresh rate.
|
|
#
?
Dec 4, 2020 17:07
|
|
|
you are basically bound to the rtx 3080 or rtx 3090 for 4k though given *lots of nerd poo poo about DLSS & RT that never ends in the GPU thread but is probably true at 4k* and also the even worse availability of AMD cards so its kind of academic.
|
|
#
?
Dec 4, 2020 18:19
|
|
|
bus hustler posted:you are basically bound to the rtx 3080 or rtx 3090 for 4k though given *lots of nerd poo poo about DLSS & RT that never ends in the GPU thread but is probably true at 4k* and also the even worse availability of AMD cards so its kind of academic. DLSS is loving wizardy. It barely looks worse and sometimes you end up at 2x or 3x the frames. It’s incredible.
|
|
#
?
Dec 4, 2020 18:29
|
|
|
I have an MSI Tomahawk MAX. It has a 14 pin TPM header. Do I just grab a TPM 2.0 module and call it a day? I want to use it for Bitlocker and Core Isolation.
|
|
#
?
Dec 4, 2020 19:49
|
|
|
skooma512 posted:I have an MSI Tomahawk MAX. It has a 14 pin TPM header. The Ryzen CPUs have an fTPM and it seems to be quite secure based on the audits I read. Saves you like twenty bux as well.
|
|
#
?
Dec 4, 2020 20:32
|
|
|
How hard is it to update the BIOS on a motherboard? This mb https://www.newegg.com/msi-mag-x570-tomahawk-wifi/p/N82E16813144310?Item=N82E16813144310 is very highly recommended but doesn't look to be ready for 3rd gen Ryzens. The listing itself and what others have said (pcpartpicker comments) have said the BIOS update was as easy and downloading the updated BIOS on a usb drive and plugging it in. Anyone have any experience with this mb and updating the bios for new Ryzens?
|
|
#
?
Dec 4, 2020 21:18
|
|
|
ShowTime posted:How hard is it to update the BIOS on a motherboard? This mb https://www.newegg.com/msi-mag-x570-tomahawk-wifi/p/N82E16813144310?Item=N82E16813144310 is very highly recommended but doesn't look to be ready for 3rd gen Ryzens. The listing itself and what others have said (pcpartpicker comments) have said the BIOS update was as easy and downloading the updated BIOS on a usb drive and plugging it in. Anyone have any experience with this mb and updating the bios for new Ryzens? Yes it is that simple on MSI boards, you plug in ONLY the power to the board (no CPU, no GPU, nothing) and the USB stick in a spot in the back. Push a button right next to that slot, lights happen and are obvious. You just have to name the bios MSI.ROM (yes in caps) &format the drive FAT32 Just an FYI these are zen3 but the 4th gen ryzen chips  it goes zen1, zen+, zen2, zen 3
|
|
#
?
Dec 4, 2020 21:34
|
|
|
Some Goon posted:That's substantially lower than it was benched for, something is up here. I tried to replicate it today and it's just not happening now. No idea what was wrong on the day when I installed it, but maybe some odd driver issue? I edited my post to reflect this.
|
|
#
?
Dec 4, 2020 22:17
|
|
|
bus hustler posted:Yes it is that simple on MSI boards, you plug in ONLY the power to the board (no CPU, no GPU, nothing) and the USB stick in a spot in the back. Push a button right next to that slot, lights happen and are obvious. You just have to name the bios MSI.ROM (yes in caps) &format the drive FAT32 Ohhh. That's awkward. I'll check and make sure I can update to 4th gen then. The mb isn't really old so I wouldn't think it would be a problem. According to the specs on Newegg it was released on June 8th, 2020. I wanted to get a MB that would last for years through various upgrades in case I started small and gradually upgraded. It seemed like the MB to do that. Edit: the MSI website says its supports Ryzen 5000 series, so I should be fine. I just may have to do more updates.
|
|
#
?
Dec 4, 2020 22:28
|
|
|
Hello, last February I built this PC with the intention of getting a 1440p monitor and new video card once the 3000 series come out. CPU: AMD Ryzen 5 3600 3.6 GHz 6-Core Processor Motherboard: ASRock B450M PRO4 Micro ATX AM4 Motherboard Memory: Crucial Ballistix Sport LT 16 GB (2 x 8 GB) DDR4-3200 CL16 Memory Video Card: Gigabyte GeForce GTX 1660 SUPER 6 GB OC Video Card Power Supply: Corsair RMx (2018) 550 W 80+ Gold Certified Fully Modular ATX Power Supply + a 3-4 year old Samsung 850 Evo SATA Will that PSU be fine for a 3060 Ti? Most calculators say I'd only need like 380w-400w or so, despite nvidia recommending 600 And how critical is it to replace that SSD with a NVME drive (if at all)? Basticle fucked around with this message at 22:48 on Dec 4, 2020 |
|
#
?
Dec 4, 2020 22:46
|
|
|
Basticle posted:Hello, last February I built this PC with the intention of getting a 1440p monitor and new video card once the 3000 series come out. You should be fine as long as you aren't doing things like adding Y connectors for PCI-E power, those are bad. Only use connectors that came with your psu. SATA SSD is fine, NVMe will be faster but not extremely so, if it's working fine now just keep using it. orange juche fucked around with this message at 23:09 on Dec 4, 2020 |
|
#
?
Dec 4, 2020 23:04
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 27, 2024 05:34 |
|
|
interrodactyl posted:Have a troubleshooting question for my latest build. I've only had this happen two times now over the last 2 weeks, but I'm wondering how best to diagnose. spunkshui posted:Ok good we have everything we need to rule things out. So I finally figured out what was happening. The latest BIOS update for the Gigabyte B550 Aorus Pro does not support 3600mhz RAM. I had to set mine down to 3200mhz and all the errors and slowdown disappeared. This BIOS update also broke half of the USB ports on the I/O. Unfortunately, it's also the update that adds support for Zen 3 processors. Really thinking of RMA'ing the mobo at this point, or just resigning myself to waiting for the next BIOS update. e: And Gigabyte actually just removed the latest F11 bios update from their site recently. interrodactyl fucked around with this message at 00:03 on Dec 5, 2020 |
|
#
?
Dec 4, 2020 23:59
|
|
