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Big Scary Owl posted:I think it was Mion yeah, the proof is in the boobs. The corpse in the well had bigger boobs so it was Shion. The boobs don't lie. The real question is what the gently caress happened and what was the yamainu trying to do? Wtf happened to Satoko? On the second thing In the original chapter 5, and implied in chapter 2, Shion lures Satoko to murder, and a suspicious Rika goes in alone to attempt a rescue. I imagine here we had the opposite with a suspicious or forewarned Satoko going to confront Mion resulting a final murder and suicide. As for the Mountain Dogs, Rika going missing is serious business, they were probably scrambling to find her/confirm her status in preparation for plan 34.
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Nov 19, 2020 20:50
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In the original Higurashi, Rika says that she's never seen Mion succumb to the virus and become a murderer—not even a single time in the hundred loops she's gone through. The extent of her trust and willpower means that it never, ever happens. For Mion to be the killer, which seems like it might be the case here, suggests some kind of foundational change in the situation, or possibly even in the nature of the virus.
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Nov 19, 2020 20:56
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And lest we not forget, we still don't know what ended up happening with Takano and Tomitake (unless they mentioned it and I forgot somehow), and there's definitely someone else pulling the strings here. The great hinamizawa disaster has never shown to have happened either, at least not yet
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Nov 19, 2020 21:21
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Mion never succumbing in the original story makes perfect sense when you consider that a huge portion of the reason people succumbed to delusions as part of Rule X is distrust of the Sonozaki family; since Mion knows anything that is there is just posturing or at least nothing actually conspiratorial, she has no reason to ever feel distrustful to cause an outbreak.
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Nov 19, 2020 21:28
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The Boobs Don't Lie
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Nov 19, 2020 21:47
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Big Scary Owl posted:I think it was Mion yeah, the proof is in the boobs. The corpse in the well had bigger boobs so it was Shion. The boobs don't lie. The real question is what the gently caress happened and what was the yamainu trying to do? Wtf happened to Satoko? That doesn’t seem like a reliable indicator.
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Nov 19, 2020 21:49
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Nate RFB posted:Mion never succumbing in the original story makes perfect sense when you consider that a huge portion of the reason people succumbed to delusions as part of Rule X is distrust of the Sonozaki family; since Mion knows anything that is there is just posturing or at least nothing actually conspiratorial, she has no reason to ever feel distrustful to cause an outbreak. Yeah I'm having a hard time thinking of anything that could have happened here to make Mion disregard everything she knows and fall to Shion's brand of paranoia. Maybe the simplest explanation is for it to still have been Shion? But then it's hard to explain why her methods changed so much. The only relatively straightforward thing I can come up with for why it could be Mion is that Shion may have tried to pull her coup and lost, and Mion's mind broke from either witnessing Shion's death or doing the deed herself and she had to find something to blame. If Oryou somehow killed Shion, or Mion found a way to blame Oryou for Shion's death, maybe she could see it as the head of the three families actually punishing Shion for violating the shrine, even if Shion precipitated the violence herself. Otherwise, I think an external factor would have to be at work. We know Takano can induce Hinamizawa Syndrome, since she did it to Tomitake, but I don't know if she has a way to do it that doesn't lead to the victim tearing open their throat pretty quickly. Rena setting out to murder Keiichi in the first arc was also pretty out of character, so if someone's inducing it, maybe they're also finding a way to steer them in certain directions, as Takano also did in the original series with her notebooks. Getting Mion to specifically disregard her personal knowledge that her family isn't directing the curse still seems like a stretch, but ¯\_(ツ)_/¯. I feel weird using spoiler tags for anything in the original series at this point since so much about this show assumes knowledge of the original. Anybody have a strong preference on whether or not they should just be abandoned outright at this point?
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Nov 20, 2020 00:03
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One of the theories I saw people suggesting is that the Mion/Shion exchange at birth never happened, which maybe could explain it??? But I don't like it since it would alter their backstories and (presumably) affect their personalities in a way that would be too drastic for the sake of having a big twist for the OG higurashi folk. It is interesting that Shmion seemed pretty calm and even rational when imprisoning Keiichi, she didn't look like she reached L5 at all. I'm personally ok with abandoning the spoiler tags
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Nov 20, 2020 00:29
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That was an abrupt ending to the arc. Keiichi gets locked up in a cell and then everyone else (except Rena presumably) dies offscreen. And he doesn't die from the syndrome. Yay? I do wonder who killed Rika though. It easy to assume that Mion went nuts and thought killing all of the family heads would fix all of her problems. But given how Rika went full Bern last episode and said "You hosed it all up, Keiichi you idiot, gg kthxbyeee~", i suspect she just ragequit and killed herself to get it over with. Maybe she told the Yamainu to kill her right then and there at school.
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Nov 20, 2020 03:30
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Some thoughts so far. Rika has given up on this timeline, talks to a Yamainu behind the school - gets them to kill her? gets a knife? does her usual knife stab method of ending things, ties in to Ooishi saying she was hosed up, Mion sees her corpse and hides her in the Sceptic Tank. This convinces her that Oryou is behind the deaths (for some reason?) unsure. Does she then go home and kill Oryou, hides Keichi. Who does she have left that she thinks needs to be killed? What happened to Shion? Did she see Shion kill Kimiyoshi and kill her, thinking Shion and Oryou were working together? This is where it falls apart really. Mion shaking the ladder has the same Level 5 Camera Filter that Rena and Keichi fighting had at the end of the first arc, does this mean Keichi was hallucinating it? Keichi see's the Yamainu on the road on the way home: when he breaks out of the cell and see's them on the security camera, is he seeing the cops but hallucinating them as the Yamainu? However, someone killed Mion and Satoko, since they planted a different gun between their bodies than the one Mion took.
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Nov 20, 2020 03:37
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I think Satoko has seemed off at a lot of points since the first episode where she fell for a trap Rika set for her, which seems out of character, and in both arcs she's been found dead with exactly one other person and one weapon present. I don't think Satoko is killing anyone or trying to but I think there's possibly more going on with her than usual and we just don't have enough information as to what yet.
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Nov 20, 2020 03:54
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I saved watching the rest of the arc until it was all done and it was much more enjoyable. I love it when Rika can just no longer give a poo poo any more, like when she had enough of Satoko's bullshit in Rei. Well, see you guys in a month.
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Nov 20, 2020 11:05
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Sinteres posted:I feel weird using spoiler tags for anything in the original series at this point since so much about this show assumes knowledge of the original. Anybody have a strong preference on whether or not they should just be abandoned outright at this point? I haven't seen the original anime and make my way through vn only now*, but I probably shouldn't be lurking in this thread anyway, since people here are mostly discussing spoilery stuff. *speaking of which it's a real shame the new anime didn't show Detective Rena
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Nov 20, 2020 12:07
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It's mostly Tatarigoroshi's start, but Shion is already in affectionate big sister mode and Rena doesn't have her public freak-out about the curse.
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Nov 26, 2020 16:01
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Hopefully this means that we'll get to see both Shion and Keiichi crack open Teppei's skull! Motherfucker deserves it
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Nov 26, 2020 20:57
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Big Scary Owl posted:Hopefully this means that we'll get to see both Shion and Keiichi crack open Teppei's skull! Motherfucker deserves it I don't think there's an anime adaptation, but you might enjoy the Tsukiotoshi-hen console arc from the VN.
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Nov 26, 2020 23:31
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The shading effect on the bottom of the characters’ hair is messing with me for some reason. It’s okay on most of the characters but the reddish fringe on Keiichi just looks weird.
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Nov 26, 2020 23:55
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No super-heavy divergence yet, but Keiichi had a remembrance of killing Teppei in Tatarigoroshi in a dream - maybe he won't be a killer this time? He also has yet to meet Tomitake and Takano, or ask Mion to make the curse befall Teppei. Satoko still has a breakdown in class at the end, but she pre-emptively swats Keiichi's hand away, if that means something.
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Dec 3, 2020 16:10
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I still think watching these arcs once they're complete is the way to watch this iteration of the franchise, but I'm too impatient/bored at work to do it. As Hogoma said, there's not much new here other than Keiichi's dream, but as someone who only read the VN and didn't see the previous anime, seeing an animated version of Satoko's breakdown was still pretty brutal. Rika still seems weirdly passive, and while some of that can be explained by her not knowing how to deal with the new weird versions of once-familiar events that she's seeing now, I still feel like it's also just a flaw of the way this sequel is structured, where things have to play out more or less the same until a point of divergence. For her to rally her friends at this point would take it more into Minagoroshi territory than Tatarigoroshi. Whether you think the plot reason or the meta reason is a bigger factor, I think watching her lapse back into learned helplessness is pretty unsatisfying.
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Dec 3, 2020 18:37
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Yeah I'm starting to really hate how passive Rika is by now. gently caress, just do everything by yourself at that point, or just tell everyone what you know, get everyone together, gently caress do SOMETHING. She knows how poo poo works (or at least, most of it)
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Dec 3, 2020 20:23
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yeah i was towing the line that maybe she was taking a more active role behind the scenes, but at this point i think the narrative is just not handling Rika very well. its pretty odd
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Dec 3, 2020 20:43
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I just thought of two other potential factors that could cause it. There could be a whole bunch of loops we haven't seen where she's been more active and failed, leaving her despondent again. I hope that's not the case because I don't think that works well with the sense of urgency established in the original ending where the loops were shorter and shorter in time, especially since Hanyuu was presented in this series as continuing to weaken from there. That leads to the other possibility, which is that this Rika isn't the Rika we know since she's looping in after this point, when it's possibly already too late to do anything. In the original series she was worried that one day the loops would progress to where she'd wake up on Watanagashi, and maybe that's where this is heading? The idea of each loop preexisting Rika's involvement is pretty weird (especially the idea of there being a token normal Rika in her place before she wakes up), so I think it's a pretty big stretch, but if there's someone else looping now who's looping in before her (presumably Takano if anyone--maybe her whole thing about becoming a god succeeded in enough worlds to actually have a metaphysical reality giving her powers similar to Hanyuu?), it could make some sense maybe. I'm still leaning toward it just being an artifact of the parallel structure so far more than anything else though.
Dr Kool-AIDS fucked around with this message at 20:47 on Dec 3, 2020 |
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Dec 3, 2020 20:44
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It seems like the idea is some combination of "we want to go through the original stories again like a remake would" and "but with just enough different that we can have some new twists/solutions for the payoff". Which might be fine for the eventual payoff but it feels alienating in the moment because it's hard to see how we could (or rather, should) have gotten here following a linear line from everyone's arcs after Matsuribayashi. Instead it just feels like none of it really mattered and therefore it's given the show an excuse to use passive, dismissive, despondent Rika again.
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Dec 3, 2020 21:44
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Nate RFB posted:It seems like the idea is some combination of "we want to go through the original stories again like a remake would" and "but with just enough different that we can have some new twists/solutions for the payoff". Which might be fine for the eventual payoff but it feels alienating in the moment because it's hard to see how we could (or rather, should) have gotten here following a linear line from everyone's arcs after Matsuribayashi. Instead it just feels like none of it really mattered and therefore it's given the show an excuse to use passive, dismissive, despondent Rika again. It feels like every video game sequel where you don’t have your skills and equipment from the first one and start over as a weakling again.
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Dec 3, 2020 21:55
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Rika tried to solve things by using her knowledge in the first arc and was directly punished for it.
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Dec 3, 2020 22:25
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Irony Be My Shield posted:Rika tried to solve things by using her knowledge in the first arc and was directly punished for it. The whole point of her arc was learning not to give up despite all the odds against her. Immediately rejecting that after one setback, having seen success so recently, is a huge rejection of the original material unless there's something more going on that we aren't aware of yet.
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Dec 3, 2020 22:47
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I don't think this is the same Rika, since she isn't acting on the information that we know she should have otherwise.
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Dec 4, 2020 07:54
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I'm hoping that the next arc will start giving some real hints as a straight up "Himatsubushi but different" arc, doesn't make narrative sense for a variety of reasons.
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Dec 4, 2020 12:44
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Irony Be My Shield posted:Rika tried to solve things by using her knowledge in the first arc and was directly punished for it. the only way to take rika in the first arc is that she was very lazy or there is a malicious god (named ryukishi) deliberately making her actions backfire monkey paw style, telling k1 exactly what he needs to hear to not freak out but just not bothering to do the same for anyone else is dumb AF and thats the only real way to understand what happened in that ep. it's just the same dumb soft reboot poo poo that always happens in dumb soft reboots, we need to keep things similar enough for the newcomers and the fans who don't actually remember poo poo from when it first came out so all of our winks to the fans more familiar with the material end up not going anywhere.
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Dec 4, 2020 23:56
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sofar gou has just been that scene in the recent star wars movies where they have the exact same fight on the ice planet from the originals, but then the guy eats the "snow" and actually it was salt the whole time!!!
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Dec 4, 2020 23:57
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it's not Hoth it's just supposed to be a light parallel but yeah watching Rika is weird
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Dec 5, 2020 00:07
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Space Flower posted:it's not Hoth it's just supposed to be a light parallel but yeah watching Rika is weird yes, and last arc wasn't wataganashi, but wataDAmashi - which means it was the same poo poo but with all the interesting scenes cut - just like how that salt planet was pretty much just hoth but with all the interesting scenes cut and a few nods at the audience about how wowe we did something way different from last time gotchu!!
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Dec 5, 2020 00:17
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big brudder
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Dec 5, 2020 01:23
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darealkooky posted:yes, and last arc wasn't wataganashi, but wataDAmashi - which means it was the same poo poo but with all the interesting scenes cut - just like how that salt planet was pretty much just hoth but with all the interesting scenes cut and a few nods at the audience about how wowe we did something way different from last time gotchu!! 
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Dec 5, 2020 01:31
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darealkooky posted:the only way to take rika in the first arc is that she was very lazy or there is a malicious god (named ryukishi) deliberately making her actions backfire monkey paw style, telling k1 exactly what he needs to hear to not freak out but just not bothering to do the same for anyone else is dumb AF and thats the only real way to understand what happened in that ep.
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Dec 5, 2020 02:37
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whether it's weird in general or is weird now and resolved later by gods and witches and akasaka is kinda w/e to me. I just don't think Gou has shown any ethos to its new content. Higurashi the visual novel series spends hours setting up the conditions of the episode that lead them into eventual tragedy and it characterizes it all as heavily human and sympathetic even when we don't know what is going on. Gou is just like "Rena showed up at my door with a murder kit" ok cool what did I learn here
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Dec 5, 2020 03:11
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I'm still really interested to get to the answer arc equivalent of this and find out what's going on, but yeah just seeing what we've seen before with Shyamalan twists at the end hasn't been very compelling. Like I said before, I really think it's caught in a worst of both worlds situation between being a remake vs being a new thing. I still think there can be satisfying explanations that give what we've seen more meaning (and it's kind of hard for me to imagine Ryukishi doing this if he didn't have something to say with it, since even most of the relatively inessential console arcs of the VNs were pretty solid), but the process of getting there is kind of tedious. The end of the third arc in the original was a big turning point (even moreso than was immediately apparent at the time), so maybe in two episodes we'll see something crazy that upends the whole thing and brings back the feeling that something new and exciting is happening like the beginning of the second episode.
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Dec 5, 2020 03:33
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Yeah I essentially agree I don't think the answer arc would play out like things have so far. As for the tedium of getting there I just watch Watanabe Akio's designs play out in the silly scenes and the remake feels worth it.
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Dec 5, 2020 04:16
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Space Flower posted:whether it's weird in general or is weird now and resolved later by gods and witches and akasaka is kinda w/e to me.
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Dec 5, 2020 07:50
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I am now convinced this remake is Bernkastel's origin story.
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Dec 5, 2020 18:42
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