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owlhawk911
Nov 8, 2019

come chill with me, in byob

who do i talk to about getting my platinum crimepass anyways?

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Dead Reckoning
Sep 13, 2011

owlhawk911 posted:

who do i talk to about getting my platinum crimepass anyways?

You definitely want to consult your lawyer with friends in the White House to set up the requisite political contributions. But, uh, apropos of nothing at all, don't forward those communications to third parties who aren't your lawyer.

Ratatozsk
Mar 6, 2007

Had we turned left instead, we may have encountered something like this...
I recognize this may be an absurd question, but what's stopping Rudy and Powell etc from just getting disbarred? What's the timeline on the bar (Bar?) proceding with an action like that?

sullat
Jan 9, 2012
Also despite Nixon's pardon, he got turbo-audited by the IRS after he left office and had to pay a pretty hefty amount of money.

euphronius
Feb 18, 2009

Ratatozsk posted:

I recognize this may be an absurd question, but what's stopping Rudy and Powell etc from just getting disbarred? What's the timeline on the bar (Bar?) proceding with an action like that?

The Bar association is a glorified club (in most states) and doesn’t do anything in most cases

The Supreme Courts of most states does the discipline thru administrative law proceedings run by some type of board

The end result can be that an attorneys license is suspended

They are also suspended somewhat automatically for a variety of convictions

The timeline is like a year or so. Similar to any administrative proceeding. Not including appeals

Nice piece of fish
Jan 29, 2008

Ultra Carp

Foxfire_ posted:

What about putting something potentially harmful in a container for something differently potentially harmful? i.e. putting over-the-counter aspirin in a bottle from prescription opiates that someone steals and then overdoses on

What's the intent in this situation? Notice that the intent part of attempt murder is a huge component, if you lack the intent of getting someone to steal the bottle and poison themselves, it's more likely negligent homicide.

It depends more about what you know about the likelyhood of someone breaking in and stealing something definitely harmful and whether or not you want this to happen so that they die. If it's just storing something sorta harmful (as opposed to definitely deadly, and for this purpose mislabeling adds to the deadlyness imo) with no provable intent to harm, it's closest to negligence. And whatever else unlawful mislabeling/storage you can be slapped with.

It's roughly the difference between a boobytrap and an unsecured loaded gun left lying around we're discussing. Notice I didn't say BB gun. It has to be able to kill someone. If it isn't, we're looking at bodily harm/reckless endangerment or something like that.

nm
Jan 28, 2008

"I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

Mr. Nice! posted:

Pardons cannot be prospective. You cannot pardon futurecrime.

In a 5-4 decision written by Barrett. . .

Dead Reckoning posted:

You definitely want to consult your lawyer with friends in the White House to set up the requisite political contributions. But, uh, apropos of nothing at all, don't forward those communications to third parties who aren't your lawyer.
Nah, just write that they're A/C and slip everyone :10bux:

Phil Moscowitz
Feb 19, 2007

If blood be the price of admiralty,
Lord God, we ha' paid in full!
President Jack Ryan signed a bunch of blank prospective pardons for the Campus

BgRdMchne
Oct 31, 2011

If a lawyer is suspended in the only state he is licensed to practice in does he automatically lose the right to practice in any federal court that he was authorized to practice in? What if he is suspended in one state, but still licensed in another?

Kalman
Jan 17, 2010

BgRdMchne posted:

If a lawyer is suspended in the only state he is licensed to practice in does he automatically lose the right to practice in any federal court that he was authorized to practice in? What if he is suspended in one state, but still licensed in another?

Most bars, including states and federal courts, typically follow reciprocal discipline, where you're obligated to report any disciplinary sanctions to the court and they typically impose the same penalty for their respective jurisdiction. So it isn't typically a problem you see come up.

If you decided not to report discipline, that can in and of itself be an independent reason to be sanctioned, and depending on what you didn't report, might result in more serious penalties. (No one's likely to disbar you for failing to report a fees-based status issue, but if you fail to mention that you're under sanction for stealing client proceeds or something, that's not going to go well for you.)

Leperflesh
May 17, 2007

In the magic the gathering thread we've been chuckling about this amazing business opportunity and it led to a conversation about fiduciary responsibility of officers of LLCs.

Leperflesh posted:

If they're selling (not really: asking for investments by) members in an Series LLC, I don't think they have to use the accredited investor test, but it appears that the investments are sold as Regulation A offerings... filed with the SEC. So anyone with the money can invest, and there are more than zero protections, although I shouldn't speculate as to how effective or toothless the SEC's oversight is in this case.

e. If I'm reading the regulation right, as long as the offering is under $20M, investors don't have to be qualified (e.g. don't have to be accredited investors).

Leperflesh posted:

The SEC has a laundry list of duties spelled out for Regulation A offerings. Fiduciary duty may not be relevant here (they're not advising you about investing, they're selling you an investment in a single asset) but it's a fair point especially for anyone unfamiliar with the wild west that is private equity that the people setting this up are under no obligation to evaluate whether the investment is appropriate for anyone investing. They absolutely do as officers of a company have a duty of care owed to their investors - so like, the speculation about selling the painting for a huge loss to their cousin, that'd be totally illegal in that it'd be flagrantly fraudulent.

evilweasel posted:

I don’t want to get too deep into the weeds of corporate fiduciary duties, because this is a magic thread, but an LLC is not like most corporations and generally state law lets you entirely waive all fiduciary duties, so the officers have no duty of care or loyalty, and could indeed sell the painting to their cousin - and if you don’t like it, don’t agree to the LLC agreement that let them do that. That’s different from a regular corporation where generally the duty of loyalty may not be waived and the duty of care can only be waived for directors.

In the abstract, it seems evilweasel is correct, e.g. LLCs can be formed in a way to remove all fiduciary responsibility from the officers (depending on state-level rules). What I'm interested in is:
1. Why? This seems like so flagrantly against the interests of LLC participants that I can't fathom why it became legally possible.
2. What recourse would the investors have if the officers of the Magic Art Investment LLC thingy decided to just sell the painting to their cousin for a quarter of its market value, if we assume that the LLC was structured in the shittiest most unethical way possible? For the sake of answering this question let's assume it's a Delaware Series LLC with assets under $20M organized as a Regulation A offering.

e. I'm not an investor and not considering investing and you are not my lawyer and are not giving me advice about this investment, etc.

Leperflesh fucked around with this message at 19:43 on Dec 3, 2020

euphronius
Feb 18, 2009

LLCs are typically small affairs where the owners know each other. there isnt an abstracted class of shareholders. The LLC owners are still protected by ideas of contract and tort.

Thats just my guess IDK. business law isnt my thing.

homullus
Mar 27, 2009

LLCs are different because they a "new" (1970s) business form created by the state statute. LLCs can be member-managed or manager-managed. In the case of the former, it is what it says: some or all members (those who would be shareholders if it were a corporation) of the LLC decide what happens. An abundance of small LLCs in the US are small, member-managed affairs where the members know each other. The principles of good faith and fair dealing in every contract also apply to the managers of LLCs, whether those managers are members or not.

Recourse for managers making questionable decisions would be affected by statute and the LLC's operating agreement, which can set the legal actions that members can take against each other.

EwokEntourage
Jun 10, 2008

BREYER: Actually, Antonin, you got it backwards. See, a power bottom is actually generating all the dissents by doing most of the work.

SCALIA: Stephen, I've heard that speed has something to do with it.

BREYER: Speed has everything to do with it.

Leperflesh posted:

In the magic the gathering thread we've been chuckling about this amazing business opportunity and it led to a conversation about fiduciary responsibility of officers of LLCs.




In the abstract, it seems evilweasel is correct, e.g. LLCs can be formed in a way to remove all fiduciary responsibility from the officers (depending on state-level rules). What I'm interested in is:
1. Why? This seems like so flagrantly against the interests of LLC participants that I can't fathom why it became legally possible.
2. What recourse would the investors have if the officers of the Magic Art Investment LLC thingy decided to just sell the painting to their cousin for a quarter of its market value, if we assume that the LLC was structured in the shittiest most unethical way possible? For the sake of answering this question let's assume it's a Delaware Series LLC with assets under $20M organized as a Regulation A offering.

e. I'm not an investor and not considering investing and you are not my lawyer and are not giving me advice about this investment, etc.

1) you dont always want a fiduciary duty between members, or between the members and the LLC. it depends on the purpose of your LLC and what you intend to do with it. LLCs were originally created to combine the benefits of a corporation (liability shielding) with the flexibility and pass through taxation of partnerships. they are intentionally designed to be very flexible on almost all aspects
2) i dunno about delaware but you could maybe sue on a variety of claims, maybe fraud, some implied or explicit warranties, etc. depends on what the operating agreement says. You can limit the ability to sue for fraud if you make it very explicit but that should be a red flag for agreeing to it. or you could try piercing the corporate veil and go after the individual who sold it, bring a derivative action, etc

Leperflesh
May 17, 2007

OK so it's not like everyone investing $35 a share in magic the gathering paintings is likely to find the people setting up the LLC just flagrantly ripped them all off with no recourse... but they should all actually read the LLC articles and anyone putting significant money in should probably have a lawyer review them. And if the manager (officer, whatever it's called) does sell the painting off to their cousin, irrespective of fiduciary duty they'd likely have some grounds to go after them, be it fraud or some other breach of contract.

evilweasel
Aug 24, 2002

Leperflesh posted:

OK so it's not like everyone investing $35 a share in magic the gathering paintings is likely to find the people setting up the LLC just flagrantly ripped them all off with no recourse... but they should all actually read the LLC articles and anyone putting significant money in should probably have a lawyer review them. And if the manager (officer, whatever it's called) does sell the painting off to their cousin, irrespective of fiduciary duty they'd likely have some grounds to go after them, be it fraud or some other breach of contract.

Basically you shouldn't be putting money in an LLC without a lawyer. An LLC agreement is a contract and it is not hard to get utterly hosed by it, and if you go into court and say "im getting hosed" the court's response is "read the contract next time, numbnuts" just like if we sign a contract that fucks you over and you, for some reason, sign it.

Zero VGS
Aug 16, 2002
ASK ME ABOUT HOW HUMAN LIVES THAT MADE VIDEO GAME CONTROLLERS ARE WORTH MORE
Lipstick Apathy
HYPOTHETICALLY, I was hit by a car while I was on a bike a year back. Car was totally at fault and I had to do a year of physical therapy and I'm still hosed up from it.

I got one of the scary TV lawyer firms and they've been working on it. They started with a $90k demand but the driver's insurance won't go above $18k (which after 30% lawyer fee and my insurance reclaiming medical costs leaves me with like 3k in my pocket lol).

So, my lawyer recommended I just wait it out for 4+ years and take the insurance to court where they'll likely settle for much more.

But then a day ago I got a call from another lawyer in the same firm also working my case and he's suggesting I consider Arbitration. I told him I was familiar with consumer arbitration where the consumer gets hosed out of class actions, and he's like "yeah I agree but this kind of arbitration often gets better results than court, courts usually have a jury who are annoyed you dragged them in there, with arbitration they go with a high/low parameter of the highest demand and the lowest offer and the arbitrator aims towards the middle of those".

I told him I'd think on it and wanted to ask you folks. Would my odds really be better with arbitration, or is there some conflict of interest (i.e. my tv ambulance chasers not wanting to wait for 4 years) that could be causing one of them to push me towards arbitration when it won't work out as well as the courts?

Zero VGS fucked around with this message at 04:09 on Dec 4, 2020

Devor
Nov 30, 2004
Lurking more.

Zero VGS posted:

HYPOTHETICALLY, I was hit by a car while I was on a bike a year back. Car was totally at fault and I had to do a year of physical therapy and I'm still hosed up from it.

I got one of the scary TV lawyer firms and they've been working on it. They started with a $90k demand but the driver's insurance won't go above $18k (which after 30% lawyer fee and my insurance reclaiming medical costs leaves me with like 3k in my pocket lol).

So, my lawyer recommended I just wait it out for 4+ years and take the insurance to court where they'll likely settle for much more.

But then a day ago I got a call from another lawyer in the same firm also working my case and he's suggesting I consider Arbitration. I told him I was familiar with consumer arbitration where the consumer gets hosed out of class actions, and he's like "yeah I agree but this kind of arbitration often gets better results than court, courts usually have a jury who are annoyed you dragged them in there, with arbitration they go with a high/low parameter of the highest demand and the lowest offer and the arbitrator aims towards the middle of those".

I told him I'd think on it and wanted to ask you folks. Would my odds really be better with arbitration, or is there some conflict of interest (i.e. my tv ambulance chasers not wanting to wait for 4 years) that could be causing one of them to push me towards arbitration when it won't work out as well as the courts?

Arcturas
Mar 30, 2011

Generally speaking, ambulance chasers have the same desire you do to maximize the payout on the claim, because that gets them a bigger chunk of change. If you’re concerned about getting conflicting advice from two lawyers on the same team, send an email to the two simultaneously and ask why their advice has changed, or ask to have them help explain the pros and cons of the options to you.

That said, arbitration like this does differ from consumer arbitration, at least slightly. I don’t have a great deal of PI arbitration experience, but it is good sometimes and bad other times, like everything.

The conflict of interest is really that your lawyer probably wants to get paid sooner, and that might (not always) be in tension with the desire to get you paid a lot of money. The fact that the firm already told you to wait and pressure them more at a later date is promising, though, because it shows they have a little longer horizon. Dunno, this stuff is tricky and it’s hard to give useful internet speculation about how best to interact with your lawyer.

BonerGhost
Mar 9, 2007

I doubt anyone here can tell you whether arbitration is the better option, but it's a different beast from consumer arbitration for sure.

A couple years back I opted for arbitration for a PI case in my dad's estate. I felt that it was a fair process and it was far less expensive than taking it to trial, where who knows what a jury of assholes may have decided.

EwokEntourage
Jun 10, 2008

BREYER: Actually, Antonin, you got it backwards. See, a power bottom is actually generating all the dissents by doing most of the work.

SCALIA: Stephen, I've heard that speed has something to do with it.

BREYER: Speed has everything to do with it.
I’m very confused how “wait it out for 4+ years and take the insurance to court” is a viable legal strategy

Forgot to add that likely none of the attorneys here are gonna touch this. You can always ask a different PI attorney for an evaluation of your case

EwokEntourage fucked around with this message at 05:28 on Dec 4, 2020

Zero VGS
Aug 16, 2002
ASK ME ABOUT HOW HUMAN LIVES THAT MADE VIDEO GAME CONTROLLERS ARE WORTH MORE
Lipstick Apathy

EwokEntourage posted:

I’m very confused how “wait it out for 4+ years and take the insurance to court” is a viable legal strategy

The lowball the insurance gave is unacceptable to me (and not so great for my lawyers either) so the only thing left is to call their bluff, and I'm not desperate for money right now so I'm fine to wait for the court backlogs to clear.

edit: ok I just saw your thing about no PI offering input here. Mostly no one said arbitration is a straight-up screwjob so maybe I'll go for it.

EwokEntourage
Jun 10, 2008

BREYER: Actually, Antonin, you got it backwards. See, a power bottom is actually generating all the dissents by doing most of the work.

SCALIA: Stephen, I've heard that speed has something to do with it.

BREYER: Speed has everything to do with it.

Zero VGS posted:

The lowball the insurance gave is unacceptable to me (and not so great for my lawyers either) so the only thing left is to call their bluff, and I'm not desperate for money right now so I'm fine to wait for the court backlogs to clear.

Oh you mean wait 4 years for the court to set a trial date. Misread that

They might offer general thoughts on arbitration. Good luck with it all tho

EwokEntourage fucked around with this message at 05:33 on Dec 4, 2020

evilweasel
Aug 24, 2002

the primary reason that consumer arbitration is a hilarious fuckjob is repeat players: if the arbitrator rules against the company, they'll never get picked again, and lose a lot of business. if they rule against you, they're never getting your business again, but they weren't anyway.

in a PI situation, the arbitrator's "clients" are the insurance company (repeat player) AND the PI firm (also a repeat player - their clients are not, but they are). if they're hilariously biased towards the insurance company, the PI firm won't work with them anymore, and they can lose business, so things are different than the consumer arbitration fuckjob. doesn't mean they are good enough - the insurance company might still be a bigger repeat player so they'll be biased somewhat towards them - but less so than for consumer arbitration.

the reason for two sophisticated parties to go to arbitration is cost/delay (and delay is just another cost): if you assume the arbitrator and the court are equally likely to rule in your favor, but the arbitration is much cheaper and quicker, then you're better off with the arbitrator.

that's the general answer; the application to your situation is something to discuss with your lawyers

Anonymous Zebra
Oct 21, 2005
Blending in like it ain't no thang
The real issue is that you feel you are receiving conflicting advice from your lawyers. A lawyer is someone whom I pay with the understanding that their expertise is greater than mine and who I'm trusting with my best interest on an issue I am under-qualified to approach on my own. If you are receiving two different pieces of advice then, as suggested above, you should get them both in the same room so you can understand what's going on.

If the issue is that you do not trust your lawyers, so instead you come ask the internet a question that they should be able to answer, then you have a completely different problem.

Bad Titty Puker
Nov 3, 2007
Soiled Meat

Zero VGS posted:

HYPOTHETICALLY, I was hit by a car while I was on a bike a year back. Car was totally at fault and I had to do a year of physical therapy and I'm still hosed up from it.

I got one of the scary TV lawyer firms and they've been working on it. They started with a $90k demand but the driver's insurance won't go above $18k (which after 30% lawyer fee and my insurance reclaiming medical costs leaves me with like 3k in my pocket lol).

So, my lawyer recommended I just wait it out for 4+ years and take the insurance to court where they'll likely settle for much more.

But then a day ago I got a call from another lawyer in the same firm also working my case and he's suggesting I consider Arbitration. I told him I was familiar with consumer arbitration where the consumer gets hosed out of class actions, and he's like "yeah I agree but this kind of arbitration often gets better results than court, courts usually have a jury who are annoyed you dragged them in there, with arbitration they go with a high/low parameter of the highest demand and the lowest offer and the arbitrator aims towards the middle of those".

I told him I'd think on it and wanted to ask you folks. Would my odds really be better with arbitration, or is there some conflict of interest (i.e. my tv ambulance chasers not wanting to wait for 4 years) that could be causing one of them to push me towards arbitration when it won't work out as well as the courts?

IANAL, but they sound like lovely personal injury lawyers. The idea that the jury would be annoyed to hear the case sounds bogus. There are a lot of red flags, as mentioned the fact that there are two lawyers giving you conflicting advice; they're not competent enough to work the jury; the fact that they're ambulance chasers who advertise on TV... Why is there more than a four-year wait to take the case to court? There have got to be better lawyers available.

Harold Fjord
Jan 3, 2004
I dunno how a law firm works in terms of being legally set up, but might this be a case of one rear end in a top hat trying to effectively snipe another assholes commission?

Hieronymous Alloy
Jan 30, 2009


Why! Why!! Why must you refuse to accept that Dr. Hieronymous Alloy's Genetically Enhanced Cream Corn Is Superior to the Leading Brand on the Market!?!




Morbid Hound

Zero VGS posted:

HYPOTHETICALLY, I was hit by a car while I was on a bike a year back. Car was totally at fault and I had to do a year of physical therapy and I'm still hosed up from it.

I got one of the scary TV lawyer firms and they've been working on it. They started with a $90k demand but the driver's insurance won't go above $18k (which after 30% lawyer fee and my insurance reclaiming medical costs leaves me with like 3k in my pocket lol).

So, my lawyer recommended I just wait it out for 4+ years and take the insurance to court where they'll likely settle for much more.

But then a day ago I got a call from another lawyer in the same firm also working my case and he's suggesting I consider Arbitration. I told him I was familiar with consumer arbitration where the consumer gets hosed out of class actions, and he's like "yeah I agree but this kind of arbitration often gets better results than court, courts usually have a jury who are annoyed you dragged them in there, with arbitration they go with a high/low parameter of the highest demand and the lowest offer and the arbitrator aims towards the middle of those".

I told him I'd think on it and wanted to ask you folks. Would my odds really be better with arbitration, or is there some conflict of interest (i.e. my tv ambulance chasers not wanting to wait for 4 years) that could be causing one of them to push me towards arbitration when it won't work out as well as the courts?

There's a lot of red flags here.

First is, why is a second attorney calling you? Did they transfer the case internally (normal and fine) or do you have two attorneys on your case now (normal and fine) or something else (not fine?)

2nd, have they just sent a demand letter or have they actually filed anything with an actual court? There may be a statute of limitations you have to file by in your state, depending! If it's filed in a court, there should be a case number you can check on your state's public court index.

3rd arbitration isn't necessarily awful but it depends on the strength of your case and other things (mostly who's paying the arbitrator). Is it binding arbitration (you're stuck with the result) or non-binding (the arbiter makes a suggestion and each side has to agree to take it, or it gets left).

Nonbinding arbitration or mediation can be a not-bad idea if you have a strong case and you're fighting an institutional defendant (like an insurance company) whose strategy is just to stonewall. It gives you a nice big number you can point to and go 'look, the arbiter said X was fair. Give me X or I'll go to court and you'll have to pay a shitload of litigation cost and I'll still get X." OTOH as EW points out, if the insurance company is paying the arbiter, they're going to get a better # than you are.

I've never done civil binding arbitration but I'd be kinda reflexively averse to it because often the plaintiff's biggest cudgel is "if you don't pay me, you'll pay more in litigation costs for a trial" and you're giving that up with binding arbitration.

I'd suggest asking your attorney 1) why the change in attorneys 2) can you have copies of what's filed so far in court (you should have these already if they're doing their job) and 3) is it binding or nonbinding arbitration, who's paying the proposed arbiter and is this an arbiter they work with regularly or is it one chosen by the insurance company.

If you aren't satisfied with the answers you may want to look for a different attorney.

Hieronymous Alloy fucked around with this message at 21:59 on Dec 4, 2020

Nonexistence
Jan 6, 2014
Echoing what others are saying about these attorneys sounding like trouble, but you should be aware that if you ditch them at this stage they will probably file a lien with the carrier for the fee they've "earned" at this point of $6k (30% of current offer) + their costs so you may end up paying attorney's fees twice, making it even harder for enough to end up in your pocket to make you whole.

azflyboy
Nov 9, 2005
Is there any kind of limitation for how long a medical provider has to send a bill to a patient in Washington or Idaho?

I went to the ER back in March, the ER billed (and was paid by) my insurance that same month, but they somehow waited until today to decide to send me a bill for what I owe, which they've known for nine months.

I can afford to pay the bill, but I was wondering if there was some timeline they might have missed by sitting on the bill for so long, since there's absolutely zero reason for them to have sat on this for so long.

Bad Munki
Nov 4, 2008

We're all mad here.


Pretty sure it’s usually years. Like the better part of a decade.

Anne Whateley
Feb 11, 2007
:unsmith: i like nice words
I suspect ERs might have been a little busier than usual since this March.

EwokEntourage
Jun 10, 2008

BREYER: Actually, Antonin, you got it backwards. See, a power bottom is actually generating all the dissents by doing most of the work.

SCALIA: Stephen, I've heard that speed has something to do with it.

BREYER: Speed has everything to do with it.
there is usually no limitation on how long someone may try to collect a debt owed to them, it may become judicial unenforceable but they can still ask you to pay it

azflyboy
Nov 9, 2005
Thanks everyone.

Like I said, I've got no issue paying the bill, but the fact that the ER is charging absurd amounts (they billed my insurance $3500 for a covid test, influenza test, and EKG reading that all took less than 90 minutes), and sent the bill with a letter threatening dire consequences if it's not paid promptly (after they took nine months to even send it) just made me curious if there was some kind of way to screw them back.

homullus
Mar 27, 2009

azflyboy posted:

Thanks everyone.

Like I said, I've got no issue paying the bill, but the fact that the ER is charging absurd amounts (they billed my insurance $3500 for a covid test, influenza test, and EKG reading that all took less than 90 minutes), and sent the bill with a letter threatening dire consequences if it's not paid promptly (after they took nine months to even send it) just made me curious if there was some kind of way to screw them back.

ok maybe don't post on the internet about how you plan to screw people out of debts you've incurred

also, with medicine, you are paying for their expertise and equipment, in addition to their time and subsidizing the bills of people who visit the ER and can't pay at all

pseudanonymous
Aug 30, 2008

When you make the second entry and the debits and credits balance, and you blow them to hell.

homullus posted:

ok maybe don't post on the internet about how you plan to screw people out of debts you've incurred

also, with medicine, you are paying for their expertise and equipment, in addition to their time and subsidizing the bills of people who visit the ER and can't pay at all

Uh no you're paying for a vastly bloated apparatus to extract profit from peoples health.

Or do you think the United States is magical and health care equipment magically costs more here or something?

homullus
Mar 27, 2009

pseudanonymous posted:

Uh no you're paying for a vastly bloated apparatus to extract profit from peoples health.

Or do you think the United States is magical and health care equipment magically costs more here or something?

how about "when you pay for any service you are not just paying for the time they spent, but also their expertise and equipment"

azflyboy
Nov 9, 2005

homullus posted:

ok maybe don't post on the internet about how you plan to screw people out of debts you've incurred

also, with medicine, you are paying for their expertise and equipment, in addition to their time and subsidizing the bills of people who visit the ER and can't pay at all

From what I can find online, a Covid test at a pharmacy runs something like $120-50, an influenza test is about the same amount, and if I get an EKG when I get my annual medical exam, it's an extra $50, but the average for that seems to be about $200. Added up, that comes to about $500, so I'm not sure how adding $3000 to that price tag is "paying for expertise", especially since the non-insurance rate on the bill was somewhere over $5k, so that's a hell of a lot of subsidizing.

Like I said, I've got no problems paying what I owe, but I do have something of an issue with the double standard where I get sent to collections if I wait 9 months to pay a bill, but if they wait that same amount of time to decide to tell me I owe money, it's totally fine.

homullus
Mar 27, 2009

azflyboy posted:

From what I can find online, a Covid test at a pharmacy runs something like $120-50, an influenza test is about the same amount, and if I get an EKG when I get my annual medical exam, it's an extra $50, but the average for that seems to be about $200. Added up, that comes to about $500, so I'm not sure how adding $3000 to that price tag is "paying for expertise", especially since the non-insurance rate on the bill was somewhere over $5k, so that's a hell of a lot of subsidizing.

Like I said, I've got no problems paying what I owe, but I do have something of an issue with the double standard where I get sent to collections if I wait 9 months to pay a bill, but if they wait that same amount of time to decide to tell me I owe money, it's totally fine.

yes, they have nearly all the power, and the system is unfair and contrary to actual public health. Your original framing was "it cost $XXXX and took less than 90 minutes," though, and that was what I objected to.

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azflyboy
Nov 9, 2005
Yeah, I framed that badly.

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