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Ingmar terdman posted:ROS is so bad it retroactively makes TFA worse. AOTC was the worst of the bunch for years but its reign is over thinking ROS is worse than AOTC is your opinion, but come on.
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Dec 7, 2020 02:05
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Imagine thinking Bounty Hunter Pursuit is bad How often do Jedi willingly yeet themselves out of a window after a droid?
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Dec 7, 2020 02:10
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6DD45wBDLNs
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Dec 7, 2020 02:12
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LionArcher posted:thinking ROS is worse than AOTC is your opinion, but come on. I think RoS was overall more damaging for the franchise because it was a bad movie that made two other movies worse by association. In a vacuum AotC was a lot worse, but it was ultimately a transitional midpoint that could be skipped over and lead to maybe the best era of EU content.
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Dec 7, 2020 02:18
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Its like saying "here is some interesting stuff in AOTC" shines a beacon to draw in people to go "NUH UH."
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Dec 7, 2020 02:25
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AOTC is the most flawed but also the most interesting. The romance scenes are creaky and the early digital photography can be rough at times (Geonosis being all sandy brown-orange presents its own challenges) but there are some wonderful shots in it. What makes it great though is that it pretty much nails the Republic becoming the Empire- the image of the Republic airships flying in to the rescue, the calvary coming in, but they're all stormtroopers with the Imperial insignia and even the ship guns are little Death Star cannons, it's like "Oh, right, this is how it happened." Lucas nails that historical shift of today's heroes being tomorrow's oppressors. Plus all the stuff with Obi-Wan as Space Detective is fun, and there's also a shot where the characters fly into the opening of Blade Runner which is great. (Between that and the Harryhausen monsters and the maser tanks straight from Toho, the film's full of cool poo poo from movie land. Lucas makes it a celebration of cool poo poo from everywhere.) Maxwell Lord fucked around with this message at 02:36 on Dec 7, 2020 |
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Dec 7, 2020 02:34
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AOTC is leagues better than TFA and ROS.
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Dec 7, 2020 02:45
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i like half of aotc ironically and half of it unironically which means that its 100% good imo. i went into ros expecting an amazing trainwreck and ended up feeling robbed, it was just dull. george lucas would never do that to meDavros1 posted:The scene during the Arena battle which let to this exchange: i heard the "negotiations with a lightsaber" line was ad libbed and they added in the call back line later. it kinda makes sense i guess
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Dec 7, 2020 02:45
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watching the romance scenes in anticipating silence then cheering and throwing couch cushions across the room when anakin says he doesnt like sand
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Dec 7, 2020 02:47
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I never understood why people get so mad at the diner scene.
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Dec 7, 2020 03:19
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At the risk of red texting myself, I have used the sand line as a fence sitting joke/nerdy come on with three different people and ended up making out with all of them. Earnest, clumsy awkwardness can be endearing at the right moments with the right people.
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Dec 7, 2020 03:19
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Shiroc posted:At the risk of red texting myself, I have used the sand line as a fence sitting joke/nerdy come on with three different people and ended up making out with all of them. Earnest, clumsy awkwardness can be endearing at the right moments with the right people.
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Dec 7, 2020 04:25
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The ending is super cool. Here's some soldiers, here's thousands of them being loaded onto a ship, here's dozens of ships taking off, welcome to the birth of the Empire. Imperial March plays as the sun sets on the Republic. That's the good poo pooShiroc posted:At the risk of red texting myself, I have used the sand line as a fence sitting joke/nerdy come on with three different people and ended up making out with all of them. Earnest, clumsy awkwardness can be endearing at the right moments with the right people.
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Dec 7, 2020 04:27
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Anakin's fall arguably begins with the tusken raiders and the republic's with the rollout of the clones. Always liked how 2 & 3 rhymed that way
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Dec 7, 2020 04:57
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Obviously it is more obviously "I would like to kiss you but too awkward to just say it" when I used it as a reference but in the context of the movie, I think the idea is that Padme never has ever had someone so obviously attracted to her. She's flattered and he's cute but she realizes it is a stupid idea because he's so hung up on her and its against the Jedi rules/bad space decorum. Its only because of him turning into a sad boy to fix, her breaking her own responsibility to go save Obi-Wan and then everything else going to hell I talked about before that gets them together. Padme in Clones a really, really hard character and I don't have in mind anyone who could have necessarily done it great. e: It kind of parallels the Republic too. They're collectively making stupid decisions and not thinking through the longer consequences of their actions made in moments of stress because someone made it easy to make the bad choice. Shiroc fucked around with this message at 05:03 on Dec 7, 2020 |
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Dec 7, 2020 04:58
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I feel like the kind of high melodrama they're going for isn't really something a lot of people even remember how to do. I swear the 2000s were actually worse than average in the 'there is a boy, there is a girl, they obviously must kiss' token romantic subplot department.
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Dec 7, 2020 05:05
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Yeah, even moreso when the point is "yeah, these two probably shouldn't be together."
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Dec 7, 2020 05:07
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OctoberCountry posted:I never understood why people get so mad at the diner scene. I'll die for dexter jettster
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Dec 7, 2020 05:22
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Shiroc posted:Yeah, even moreso when the point is "yeah, these two probably shouldn't be together." When they genuinely have more in common and have more intelligent discussions than your average 2000s romantic subplot.
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Dec 7, 2020 05:26
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Dec 7, 2020 05:34
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The emotionally healthy version of Anakin/Padme ends with them having a sit down where Padme says he's a very nice guy but this doesn't make sense and they should take a break after this bodyguarding business is over but they can still be friends when he's in town. Anakin says it's hard but he respects her feelings and he hopes there comes a time where he can be an honest friend to her. Clearly having more emotional intelligence in this version, the Jedi are more perceptive of their decline, Dooku was never alienated from the Order and they work together to uncover the Sith Lord. The rest of the movies never happen. Instead she sort of has that conversation (and Anakin does back down) but everyone is set on making cascading terrible decisions all around them and oops fascism.
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Dec 7, 2020 05:56
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LionArcher posted:The Jedi often look like stilted actors with no sword training. I will have to agree with this. In concept, the scene where Windu says he didn't come alone and all the Jedi ignite their swords should be amazing. But they look like a bunch of clowns striking a pose. I guess it makes sense because they are, and a moment later it would be reveled that they walked into a trap. But I feel like that reveal would have worked a LOT better if you gave the Jedi a brief moment of looking awesome. Then there are moments in the big battle that ensues where random Jedi swing their swords around like they are random people grabbed from the street and told to do what they thought was Jedi stuff.
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Dec 7, 2020 12:48
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I remember at the time people being super jazzed about giant scale battles, so every movie had to try and ape lord of the rings with their own Helms Deep. AOTC was Star Wars answer, and I always thought it looked stupid and really highlighted what an ineffective weapon lightsabers really are when you saw a giant group of them with extras swinging them randomly. It's been a long time, but I also remember thinking the scene where the lightsabers light up Anakin and Dookus faces being a neat idea that never ended including any coherent shots that showed them actually fighting, and the less said about the Yoda battle, the better. As ridiculous and over the top as the Phantom Menaces battles were in retrospect, they at least looked coherent. AOTC felt like George also figured he could not only digitally replace the sets and costumes, but the choreographers as well.
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Dec 7, 2020 14:29
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Attack of the Clones came out before The Two Towers.
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Dec 7, 2020 15:10
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I would say that the hole that Lucas wrote himself into is that he doesn't really establish how old Padme and Anakin are supposed to be in The Phantom Menace. That combined with recasting Anakin with Hayden Christensen makes that romance come off weird and creepy from the start.
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Dec 7, 2020 15:51
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Simplex posted:I would say that the hole that Lucas wrote himself into is that he doesn't really establish how old Padme and Anakin are supposed to be in The Phantom Menace. That combined with recasting Anakin with Hayden Christensen makes that romance come off weird and creepy from the start. The deleted scene in which Anakin goes to Padme's family home sorta spells it out. They go to her room and she's got photos of her with other hard luck kids (remember anakin was born a slave) from dilapidated worlds she visited while in some kind of Naboo version of the peace corps. It's kind of hosed up in that it establishes Padme likes to be revered by the poor and downtrodden all the while being a mildly creepy pedo.
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Dec 7, 2020 16:40
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Simplex posted:I would say that the hole that Lucas wrote himself into is that he doesn't really establish how old Padme and Anakin are supposed to be in The Phantom Menace. That combined with recasting Anakin with Hayden Christensen makes that romance come off weird and creepy from the start. That's another of those obviously deliberate things. Anakin likes older women because of mommy issues, which becomes very relevant when his mom dies and he starts murdering lots of people.
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Dec 7, 2020 16:41
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G-III posted:The deleted scene in which Anakin goes to Padme's family home sorta spells it out. They go to her room and she's got photos of her with other hard luck kids (remember anakin was born a slave) from dilapidated worlds she visited while in some kind of Naboo version of the peace corps. It's kind of hosed up in that it establishes Padme likes to be revered by the poor and downtrodden all the while being a mildly creepy pedo.  that seems like a good scene to include, what the hell.
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Dec 7, 2020 17:20
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piratepilates posted:
Well in true GL fashion it's full of janky acting and it looks like it was legit shot in an upper middle class home. It works thematically when you think it over but it's goofy as hell. Note: Anakin is a former slave and he's virtually ignored by this well to do family. There's a really good contrast to this scene when Anakin and Padme visit the Lars homestead and we see how the rest of the galaxy lives. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K0xqWD1xz5Y
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Dec 7, 2020 17:31
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piratepilates posted:
Because there's a tension between Star Wars on the one hand being a modern fable of Knights and Wizards and Princesses as the good guys, and on the other the 'democratic opposition' to Emperor Palpatine being a bunch of hyper-capitalist oligarchs and literal nobility. Lean too much into the latter and the legitimate reading of the films is the one contained in the extremely long post I'm sure SMG is writing right now.
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Dec 7, 2020 17:31
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:That's another of those obviously deliberate things. Anakin likes older women because of mommy issues, which becomes very relevant when his mom dies and he starts murdering lots of people. I think that's fine, but how does it make Padme likeable at all? It makes her come across as either lacking all agency, or kind of a sexual predator.
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Dec 7, 2020 17:33
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G-III posted:Well in true GL fashion it's full of janky acting and it looks like it was legit shot in an upper middle class home. It works thematically when you think it over but it's goofy as hell. Note: Anakin is a former slave and he's virtually ignored by this well to do family. There's a really good contrast to this scene when Anakin and Padme visit the Lars homestead and we see how the rest of the galaxy lives. Yeah you're right. Like half of the video sucks, the other half could have been good but doesn't really work.
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Dec 7, 2020 17:33
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G-III posted:The deleted scene in which Anakin goes to Padme's family home sorta spells it out. They go to her room and she's got photos of her with other hard luck kids (remember anakin was born a slave) from dilapidated worlds she visited while in some kind of Naboo version of the peace corps. It's kind of hosed up in that it establishes Padme likes to be revered by the poor and downtrodden all the while being a mildly creepy pedo. I think it highlights the idea of Padme and Anakin's love being a complete disaster from the inside out, which is clearly a legit read (thanks in part to the shaky chemistry between the two). That being said, I like the idea that these two actually had a legitimate love story and might've found happiness but for their circumstances; it reinforces the idea that the Jedi's alienation of the kid through dogmatic tradition is the grand failing that led to Vader. If the love story was doomed from the start, who's to say he wouldn't have gone all force choke-y anyway when he and Padme had some messy break up.
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Dec 7, 2020 17:37
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piratepilates posted:Yeah you're right. Like half of the video sucks, the other half could have been good but doesn't really work. It's kind of the challenge with the prequels: lot's of great thematic content, interesting and rich subtext, but unpleasing execution. However I've always preferred messy execution that tries to do and say SOMETHING than a more polished execution that does and says NOTHING like the sequel trilogy. G-III fucked around with this message at 17:47 on Dec 7, 2020 |
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Dec 7, 2020 17:39
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Boxman posted:I think it highlights the idea of Padme and Anakin's love being a complete disaster from the inside out, which is clearly a legit read (thanks in part to the shaky chemistry between the two). That being said, I like the idea that these two actually had a legitimate love story and might've found happiness but for their circumstances; it reinforces the idea that the Jedi's alienation of the kid through dogmatic tradition is the grand failing that led to Vader. If the love story was doomed from the start, who's to say he wouldn't have gone all force choke-y anyway when he and Padme had some messy break up. I would like a version of the Prequel story where the Clone Wars are part of Sidious's plan to shape Anakin's development so that he matures as a Jedi through war and thus finds himself inherently susceptible to Sith ideology. The problem is that in AOTC he's already murder happy before any of that starts so it's explicitly an inherent part of who he is.
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Dec 7, 2020 17:48
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Simplex posted:I think that's fine, but how does it make Padme likeable at all? It makes her come across as either lacking all agency, or kind of a sexual predator. The age difference is like a few years, end of teens/early 20s
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Dec 7, 2020 17:54
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Alchenar posted:I would like a version of the Prequel story where the Clone Wars are part of Sidious's plan to shape Anakin's development so that he matures as a Jedi through war and thus finds himself inherently susceptible to Sith ideology. The problem is that in AOTC he's already murder happy before any of that starts so it's explicitly an inherent part of who he is. Sidious doesn't have a plan to shape Anakin's development. It's just a happy coincidence for him that Jedi training just happened to produce the perfect subordinate for him.
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Dec 7, 2020 18:12
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G-III posted:It's kind of the challenge with the prequels: lot's of great thematic content, interesting and rich subtext, but unpleasing execution. However I've always preferred messy execution that tries to do and say SOMETHING than a more polished execution that does and says NOTHING like the sequel trilogy. Yep, I think this was a big part of me circling back around and enjoying the prequels—comparing it to the sequels. TFA and RoS have absolutely nothing to say and just make the prequels look so, so, so much better by contrast. TLJ is similar to the prequels in that there is really rich subtext and thematic content within, but instead of being clunky in its construction it's clunky in its storytelling. It works better as an essay about Star Wars than a Star War in and of itself. But like many Star Wars arguments and film arguments in general, this really all comes down to what you care about most in a movie. Personally I care way more about a film having a strong and pointed thesis and rich thematic throughlines than I do about the narratives of the characters, so TLJ resonates way more to me than, say, the Marvel movies, which nail character narrative but rarely have anything to say. TFA and RoS do neither well. TFA at least sets up compelling characters but then does nothing interesting with them and expects the next film to pick up the threads. If you care more about following these characters on their journeys, then TLJ does a somewhat poor job of furthering those stories so I get why some people don't like them. The prequels do both thematic content and character narrative well, but are absolute messes of construction, from their unripe digital photography to their shoddy CGI to their awful compositing to their clunkers of scripts and poor directing of actors. So I also get why some people don't like them! Luckily ("luckily") for us, these differences will fuel a thousand years of circular debate on the quality of these films.
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Dec 7, 2020 18:19
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2house2fly posted:The age difference is like a few years, end of teens/early 20s To elaborate: Padmé is 14 as of TPM, while Portman was 15/16 at time of filming (and Knightley was 12). Anakin is supposed to be 9, and I believe Lloyd was also 9. AOTC is 10 years later and ROTS is 3 years after that.
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Dec 7, 2020 18:54
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Why shouldn't the Amidala household look middle class??Simplex posted:I think that's fine, but how does it make Padme likeable at all? It makes her come across as either lacking all agency, or kind of a sexual predator. No one is saying she's likable, she's a space liberal after all! And she didn't groom Anakin, Obiwan and Yoda did that. Alchenar posted:I would like a version of the Prequel story where the Clone Wars are part of Sidious's plan to shape Anakin's development so that he matures as a Jedi through war and thus finds himself inherently susceptible to Sith ideology. The problem is that in AOTC he's already murder happy before any of that starts so it's explicitly an inherent part of who he is. He's literally a warrior monk fighter pilot who survived gladiatorial death sports as a child. How is that a problem?
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Dec 7, 2020 19:01
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