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| Yes |
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44 | 35.20% |
| No |
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81 | 64.80% |
| Total: | 125 votes | ||
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Yeah sure, we'll consider your lawsuit and rule quickly. https://twitter.com/KlasfeldReports/status/1336743547010248712 Get hosed!
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Dec 9, 2020 19:47
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| # ? May 24, 2024 08:17 |
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consistently attacking a marginalized power's nuclear program only further entrenches their correct belief that it is key to their survival and will in fact ensure they build nuclear weapons
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Dec 9, 2020 19:48
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lightpole posted:Technically, yes, it delays the program in the very short term. In the long term it provides motivation to accelerate the program and make it more robust. One step back, two steps forward. Shoving the problem on to next year's PM/President is a classic solution. Even if next year's PM/President turns out to be you again.
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Dec 9, 2020 19:58
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Proud Christian Mom posted:consistently attacking a marginalized power's nuclear program only further entrenches their correct belief that it is key to their survival and will in fact ensure they build nuclear weapons This is the truth of it. Everyone saw what happened to Gaddafi and learned "oh, if we actually do give up our weapons, they'll have no reason not to have the CIA initiate a coup." Look how we treat NK and Israel. A Bad Poster fucked around with this message at 20:07 on Dec 9, 2020 |
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Dec 9, 2020 20:04
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Fair points, I would argue that there are probably options that would truly set it back for 10 years and more... but well I don't think there is a pressing need to make anywhere in Iran have a green hue (not a nuclear strike, but attacks which would cause radiation to leak). Although I don't know if the Saudi's would truly be bothered by it (despite being closest). I mean even the massive airstrike idea wouldn't work anymore because the reactors are online...well assuming you're care about radiation. At this point just doing a massive decap attack would probably be better. Knowledge can be decentralized, but not that decentralized. Anyway these are things more for a Command or Harpoon scenario, not something based in reality. Funny thing about NK. I think one could make a decent (or at least humorous) argument that the current problem is caused by Jimmy Carter and the framework agreement, and that if Clinton had whacked that facility it wouldn't have ended it, but it would have delayed things significantly (and allowed for negotiations from a position of strength). Obviously DPRK retaliation was one hell of unknown, I kind wonder how in the early to mid 1990s (granted using hindsight) the DPRK could have responded considering it was the biggest point of it's famine). Anyway I appreciate the feedback from everyone.
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Dec 9, 2020 20:27
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MazelTovCocktail posted:but with quotes I've seen from arms control experts (ie Jeffery Lewis) they seem to not want to be able to admit that it does delay the program. I understand they have a vested interest in promoting negotiated non proliferation, but I feel like they could be a little more honest about it. It's hard to be mad about someone earning a living telling people that we don't need more nukes, but by god you managed it.
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Dec 9, 2020 20:29
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UP THE BUM NO BABY posted:It's hard to be mad about someone earning a living telling people that we don't need more nukes, but by god you managed it. It's not mad as much as finding the framing of the argument to be poor. A stronger one is acknowledging that it can delay, as many here have pointed out, but while yes it does that, it is not the best reason because of these reasons. https://twitter.com/GovernorTomWolf/status/1336752478231138304?s=20
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Dec 9, 2020 20:34
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CommieGIR posted:Ask the MIT professor, but its worth noting that Israel's and the US's violent attempts have done nothing more than provide minor delays versus the Iran Negotiations which had measurable and fast acting effects. If you read the rest of the tweets he is taking the position the strike on the Iraqi reactor didn't cause a delay because the reactor was terrible for producing weapons-grade material and Saddam believing it would work was loving up their program. Which is a rather specific mechanism to extrapolate as evidence of what the effect on Iran's program would be. I'm sure there's a more nuanced arguement to be made there but 280 characters isn't a medium that allows for that and you're reading a lot of nonexistent detail into his tweets in order to avoid having to support very specific arguments that you are making (that he's not) by hiding behind his authority as an expert. Unless you have more material from him that I'm not seeing in that thread.
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Dec 9, 2020 20:36
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I don't think anyone here would advocate strikes against Iran. There was already a solution in place that was working and Iran was responding positively towards and continued to try and maintain in the face of US sabotage. My hope is that we can work to return to some semblance of that and marginalize Israeli influence.
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Dec 9, 2020 20:39
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It also appears that this isn't evidence of a clandestine program. Iran declared the site to the IAEA and seems to be complying with inspection requirements. They just moved it underground.
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Dec 9, 2020 20:42
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Facebook just had a very bad day. https://twitter.com/JanNWolfe/status/1336756976638959617?s=19 https://twitter.com/KlasfeldReports/status/1336757430022234113?s=19 Pretty obviously coordinated between the feds and the states - they're looking to make facebook spinoff instagram/whatsapp/etc. Not seeing much political SECTION 230!!!1!1!1 nonsense from reading the intros/endings.
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Dec 9, 2020 20:46
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Dec 9, 2020 20:47
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facialimpediment posted:Facebook just had a very bad day.  Now do it to Google. Although one could argue in anything beyond selling ads and personal data, they're pretty drat incompetent.
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Dec 9, 2020 20:49
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facialimpediment posted:Facebook just had a very bad day. lmao i guess this has been in the works for a while, but i sure didn't see it coming
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Dec 9, 2020 20:50
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orange juche posted:Catholics loving suck, there is a reason there's a lot of ex-catholics, and it's not just the rampant sex abuse. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aU9zZxvrAro
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Dec 9, 2020 21:03
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...wait, we still have antitrust laws?
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Dec 9, 2020 21:10
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facialimpediment posted:Facebook just had a very bad day. The timing of these cases is going to convince all those people that they were right though. Granted they exist in a separate tangential universe to this one so whatever. StandardVC10 posted:...wait, we still have antitrust laws? The chicago school of economic thought basically neutered much of our anti-trust statutes when they became judicial precedent. Information technology companies are very well positioned to take advantage of how anti-trust evaluations are conducted (because many provide free services or create "platforms" within which other services compete) and as such have evaded serious regulation outside a few high profile cases over the past 40 years or so. Grip it and rip it fucked around with this message at 21:18 on Dec 9, 2020 |
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Dec 9, 2020 21:13
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At last! people will come to myspace again!
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Dec 9, 2020 21:15
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StandardVC10 posted:...wait, we still have antitrust laws? Only selectively enforced. Data is a bigger market than oil, gotta get some sweet sweet revenue from all those nerds in Silicon Valley selling personal data. Let's hope Congress critters want to "look tough on Tech".
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Dec 9, 2020 21:19
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17 states have filed in favor of the lawsuit challenging the election results: https://twitter.com/bradheath/status/1336763665580765187?s=20
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Dec 9, 2020 21:30
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ded posted:At last! people will come to myspace again! Tom is so excited
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Dec 9, 2020 21:33
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CommieGIR posted:17 states have filed in favor of the lawsuit challenging the election results: Man if this poo poo works what's the godamn point of our loving representative democracy
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Dec 9, 2020 21:36
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sharknado slashfic posted:Tom is so excited Tom sold at the height of its popularity and I believe he just takes pictures now. I don’t think he’s involved in anything. I like Tom.
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Dec 9, 2020 21:41
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CommieGIR posted:17 states have filed in favor of the lawsuit challenging the election results: I really hope this poo poo gets thrown out on its rear end.
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Dec 9, 2020 21:42
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ded posted:At last! people will come to myspace again! Everything's coming up timberlake
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Dec 9, 2020 21:43
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Richard Bong posted:Tom sold at the height of its popularity and I believe he just takes pictures now. I don’t think he’s involved in anything. I like Tom. Me too, he was my friend after all
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Dec 9, 2020 21:45
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Richard Bong posted:Tom sold at the height of its popularity and I believe he just takes pictures now. I don’t think he’s involved in anything. I like Tom. Tom just spends his time on twitter dunking on people trying to make fun of him for myspace not being a thing anymore. 
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Dec 9, 2020 21:47
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DurosKlav posted:Tom just spends his time on twitter dunking on people trying to make fun of him for myspace not being a thing anymore. thats the way you do it god drat 580 mil and he didnt even have to be outed as a wife beater to get it
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Dec 9, 2020 22:02
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Yeah, Tom played the game smart. 580mil RN, vs. ??? when Facebook inevitably went public. And it's not like 580 million dollars is anything to sneeze at.
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Dec 9, 2020 22:04
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Riot Carol Danvers posted:Man if this poo poo works what's the godamn point of our loving representative democracy It does a great job enriching the people who run it regardless of this outcome so overall a great success.
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Dec 9, 2020 22:06
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Pine Cone Jones posted:I really hope this poo poo gets thrown out on its rear end. It will. A big tell is that those state AGs didn't join the case, they just filed friend-of-the-court briefs, and those briefs don't even match the argument of the Texas case.
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Dec 9, 2020 22:13
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https://twitter.com/jaketapper/status/1336777206182404097?s=20
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Dec 9, 2020 22:16
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bulletsponge13 posted:Yeah, Tom played the game smart. 580mil RN, vs. ??? when Facebook inevitably went public. "Nice guy" aside, it's like Patient Zero lamenting about the deadly mutations of his original and *pure* strain.
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Dec 9, 2020 22:31
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https://twitter.com/BrianFrosh/status/1336766933769871361?s=20 Uh, right, good luck with that
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Dec 9, 2020 22:32
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A Bad Poster posted:This is the truth of it. Everyone saw what happened to Gaddafi and learned "oh, if we actually do give up our weapons, they'll have no reason not to have the CIA initiate a coup." Look how we treat NK and Israel. Yes, there certainly wasn't any "tried to slaughter his way into staying in power when Libyans wanted him gone" involved, it was definitely just the CIA. Because the Arab does not actually have agency, you see. Please make this idea go away, I feel dumber every time I read it.
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Dec 9, 2020 22:36
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https://prospect.org/power/senator-thom-tillis-pushes-prison-time-for-online-streamers/quote:Congress has once again put itself in a situation of having to pass a last-minute omnibus bill to fund the government and prevent a shutdown. These truly are must-pass bills since much of the government grinds to a halt without them, so they often get used as vehicles for controversial bills that can’t pass on their own. Senators and representatives work out backroom deals to attach their pet measures to funding for things like food inspections and airport safety and then dare their colleagues to object.
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Dec 9, 2020 22:36
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My apologies, but too hosed up to not xpost:staticman posted:https://twitter.com/AntiFashGordon/status/1336670162645344265 CHUDs, riled up by Ted "love me I'm a liberal" Wheeler's straight-up Trump style tweets are attacking the Red House: https://twitter.com/r3volutiondaddy/status/1336550612041756673
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Dec 9, 2020 22:42
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Plastic_Gargoyle posted:Yes, there certainly wasn't any "tried to slaughter his way into staying in power when Libyans wanted him gone" involved, it was definitely just the CIA. Because the Arab does not actually have agency, you see. What do you think the CIA does exactly? They're not the ones giving orders, but if you don't think they're involved in conflicts like that then you're extremely naive.
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Dec 9, 2020 22:45
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Plastic_Gargoyle posted:Yes, there certainly wasn't any "tried to slaughter his way into staying in power when Libyans wanted him gone" involved, it was definitely just the CIA. Because the Arab does not actually have agency, you see. Yeah I also hate the really loving tired “Arabs wouldn’t have risen up in 2011 without the CIA sparking it” for the reason you listed. I lived in Egypt right before the “revolution” and it was clear something was going to happen. The murder of Khaled Saeed happened practically down the street from where I lived at the time and it was clear that people were angry, pissed and not going to tolerate the status quo anymore. They sure as poo poo didn’t need any Westerners pulling any strings in the background. That said, if Qadhafi had nukes or other WMD, that would may have changed the calculus for external intervention from NATO or the UN or whatever but likely wouldn’t have factored in for their civil war.
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Dec 9, 2020 22:46
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staticman posted:My apologies, but too hosed up to not xpost: Those loving dudes just love attacking a dude in a wheelchair. This is like the 5th or 6th time I've heard of it. Even PPB have attacked him, multiple times.
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Dec 9, 2020 22:51
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