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Jupiter Jazz posted:New Teen Titans is a total snore so far. X-Men wannabe comic made in the 80's with the 60's level writing. The lack of team chemistry, it all feels so forced. It reminds me of a 60's X-Men comic made 20 years later. It's bad. I'll stick to Batman for now. Yeah I also never really got the appeal of New Teen Titans for those exact reasons It feels like a reaction more than it's own thing.
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Dec 10, 2020 03:10
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Jupiter Jazz posted:New Teen Titans is a total snore so far. X-Men wannabe comic made in the 80's with the 60's level writing. The lack of team chemistry, it all feels so forced. It reminds me of a 60's X-Men comic made 20 years later. It's bad. I'll stick to Batman for now. That is nth level bad.
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Dec 10, 2020 03:19
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Trying to write an 80s Claremont book when you aren't 80s Claremont is a losing proposition, 90s and post 2000 Claremont couldn't pull it off, what the gently caress chance does anyone else have?
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Dec 10, 2020 03:24
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Have the people that said New Teen Titans is great read it recently or does it get massively better? Because...
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Dec 10, 2020 03:29
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Jupiter Jazz posted:Have the people that said New Teen Titans is great read it recently or does it get massively better? Because... I haven't read any Teen Titans, because I've never seen any evidence it ever gets good.
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Dec 10, 2020 03:31
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Skwirl posted:I haven't read any Teen Titans, because I've never seen any evidence it ever gets good. Then why do all the comic recommendations say it's one of the "greatest, most influential comic book runs" ever in comics?
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Dec 10, 2020 03:32
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There is probably a huge nostalgia contingent involved and it was set up as DC's answer to the X-Men. I'm sure it hasn't aged well and I am not sure how well the big events like the Judas Contract has aged like the fondly remembered X-Men events. I do know that when I tried to read some of Claremonts X-Men stuff though I could not get over the the over the top purple prose narration.
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Dec 10, 2020 03:34
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New Teen Titans Volume 1 is listed number 2. https://www.gamesradar.com/10-best-teen-titans-stories/ quote:It all starts here. No two creators are more synonymous with the Teen Titans than Marv Wolfman and George Perez. [quote]Their first eight issues together solidified them as a force to be reckoned with. Their Teen Titans would be heralded as one of the best superhero runs of the 1980s[/b], and DC’s answer to Marvel’s runaway mutant success. I've read volume 1 and...
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Dec 10, 2020 03:37
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Jupiter Jazz posted:Then why do all the comic recommendations say it's one of the "greatest, most influential comic book runs" ever in comics? They want to kiss starfire
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Dec 10, 2020 03:42
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site posted:They want to kiss starfire thats true aaaaand thats true
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Dec 10, 2020 03:46
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site posted:They want to kiss starfire But Raven is way better. That's the worst part in my opinion. Raven is cool and mysterious and then she's surrounded by a plodding mess of a comic. Her design is incredible here.
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Dec 10, 2020 03:53
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For all the terribleness that has been the Teen Titans for a really long time the cartoons are kick arse amazing awesome (probably because they are nothing like the comics) Also if you want a really good Teen Titans book from DC just read Young Justice.
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Dec 10, 2020 03:56
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Madkal posted:For all the terribleness that has been the Teen Titans for a really long time the cartoons are kick arse amazing awesome (probably because they are nothing like the comics) Teen Titans cartoon is why I'm a fan. Is Raven in Young Justice?
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Dec 10, 2020 03:59
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Jupiter Jazz posted:Then why do all the comic recommendations say it's one of the "greatest, most influential comic book runs" ever in comics? It was groundbreaking for the time.
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Dec 10, 2020 04:04
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You have not even seen the Marv Wolfman self insert character yet! 
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Dec 10, 2020 04:07
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Mr Hootington posted:It was groundbreaking for the time. How?
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Dec 10, 2020 04:11
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Jupiter Jazz posted:Teen Titans cartoon is why I'm a fan. She isn't. But if you want fun teenage hero centered comics that isn't trying to ape X-Men Young Justice is great.
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Dec 10, 2020 04:15
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Madkal posted:She isn't. But if you want fun teenage hero centered comics that isn't trying to ape X-Men Young Justice is great. Thanks!
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Dec 10, 2020 04:31
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Jupiter Jazz posted:How? It let characters grow up. DC had played footsie with the idea over the 70s, but that teen titans run saw wally, Donna, and dick become young adults and become their own characters. It was kinda part of a broader change that was happening at DC. The comics were "maturing".
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Dec 10, 2020 04:37
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Madkal posted:She isn't. But if you want fun teenage hero centered comics that isn't trying to ape X-Men Young Justice is great. Also, Secret is better than comic Raven in pretty much every aspect. I always found comic Raven pretty bland and miserable compared to the cartoon version. On the subject of old school comics that maybe don't hold up that well, I've been trying to read the LoSH Great Darkness Saga, and it is not helped by the fact that it takes the collection like 12 issues of unrelated stupidity with tiny hints about the main threat in the background before it actually gets to the Great Darkness Saga. It also suffers from that "Let's narrate everything we're doing" thing that old comics were all about. But on the bright side, it is pretty amazing how much story they could cram into a single issue back in the day. Nowadays it'd take 4 issues to get through what old comics do in 1.
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Dec 10, 2020 05:03
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Mr Hootington posted:It was groundbreaking for the time. Except it was coming out at the same time as loving Claremont's Uncanny.
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Dec 10, 2020 05:07
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Jupiter Jazz posted:Have the people that said New Teen Titans is great read it recently or does it get massively better? Because... Also George Perez was a wildly popular artist and I think his artwork holds up more (and shines brighter in comparison to its contemporaries) than Wolfman's writing, though I haven't read any of the run in ages. As other people have pointed out, even though it was predated by (and inspired by) Claremont's X-Men and Levitz's Legion, Teen Titans was also significant in that it was taking place in the mainline DC Universe, which was still self-consciously trying to shake off the "Biff Bam Pow Batman TV Series" reputation, constantly spinning slogans like "THE NEW DC: THERE'S NO STOPPING US NOW" and "DC COMICS: THEY'RE NOT JUST FOR KIDS ANYMORE" and "DC: NOT JUST SUPERHEROES, BUT WE HAVE 'EM TOO" and etc throughout the 1980s. Marvel had already done Spider-Man graduating high school and growing into an adult, Reed and Sue getting married and having a kid, an entire new class of X-Men and Avengers, while DC was still playing footsie with the idea that maybe Dick Grayson was a legal adult in their 'real' books after forty years of comics. The Teen Titans 'graduating' into young adults was a big part of the appeal of the book to DC fans. Jupiter Jazz posted:Then why do all the comic recommendations say it's one of the "greatest, most influential comic book runs" ever in comics? Teen Titans is in a weird place as a franchise because the thing that most people like the most (the various animated series) are a huge tone shift from... basically every mainline DC comic about the characters that has ever been published prior to maybe the recent string of YA graphic novels. It's not dissimilar to Guardians of the Galaxy, which prior to the films were all pretty serious/'serious' space adventures that largely took place a thousand years in the future and when they had the movie characters in them, had pretty significantly different characterization. Teen Titans is kind of in the same boat. Lord_Hambrose posted:You have not even seen the Marv Wolfman self insert character yet!
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Dec 10, 2020 06:17
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Edge & Christian posted:It's forty years old and it (and Levitz Legion and Claremont X-Men) are all of their time in the sense that the particular sprawling longform superhero melodrama that they all did feels like a massive cliche today because so many people have aped it across four decades. Guardians of the Galaxy wasn't a huge shift from the post Annihilation book, which was probably a lot different from the earlier Guardians books, but I didn't read those. Peter Quill's character was probably the hugest shift because they had to make it an origin film.
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Dec 10, 2020 06:25
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quote:It's forty years old and it (and Levitz Legion and Claremont X-Men) are all of their time in the sense that the particular sprawling longform superhero melodrama that they all did feels like a massive cliche today because so many people have aped it across four decades. I don't think age is an excuse here. Some of the best written comics I've read come from the 80's. And my issue has nothing to do with "been there seen that" as much it is "this dialogue is horrendous" and this reads like a 60's comic.
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Dec 10, 2020 08:32
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Jupiter Jazz posted:I don't think age is an excuse here. Some of the best written comics I've read come from the 80's. I know this is the DC thread and you've been asking about DC comics, but I think you loving love Claremont X-Men and for reading that you want giant size X-Men number 1 and then Uncanny X-Men 94 and you got like 100 more issues before you have to think about crossovers at least.
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Dec 10, 2020 08:48
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Terry Long isn’t a super hero, and is just Donna Troy’s civilian husband. Not comparable at all to Superman or Mister Fantastic.
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Dec 10, 2020 10:08
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Edge & Christian posted:And technically they won't, because the argument for "Terry Long == Marv Wolfman" really boils down to "white men who sometimes have beards who get to marry a character", which would make Reed Richards and Post-Crisis Superman the self-insert characters of literally dozens of writers. Self insert or not (seems Really like one, but sure) it is a pretty weird character to be so important. College professors who are also divorced dads with teenage daughters that pick up 18 years olds is undoubtedly a character that hasn't aged the best. And the very least it certainly says something about the writer. They would never try this outside of a Black Label book these days. I actually like most Marv Wolfman stuff, but Terry Long would have been casually killed at the end of his first Tomb of Dracula appearance to teach some lesson.
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Dec 10, 2020 12:47
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Mr Hootington posted:It was groundbreaking for the time. Looking at those pages, there's a lot of sexual tension simmering under the surface. Cyborg giving Donna Troy a back rub, Starfire frenching Robin etc... Considering how chaste most media was and how porn would not have been nearly as readily available, tapping into teenagers hormones would probably make it very foundly remembered, even if it had to work within a very rigid standard* of what was allowed. * = Ha!
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Dec 10, 2020 12:49
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New Teen Titans is like wildly horny but it'd be like a great Perez pinup of Starfire coupled with Beast Boy shouting "get a load of the tomatoes on that dame! Her getaway sticks go all the way up -- and then some!" or Terry Long thinking "I'm just a REGULAR JOE, how'd I get SO LUCKY" over and over again
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Dec 10, 2020 19:55
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Karma Tornado posted:or Terry Long thinking "I'm just a REGULAR JOE, how'd I get SO LUCKY" over and over again
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Dec 10, 2020 20:03
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Endless Mike posted:So Mr. Boop? Yeah, yes, precisely
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Dec 10, 2020 20:15
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like just straight up an authorial self insert in a panel with Cyborg and a thought bubble that's like "I can't believe I get to go home and slam it to Wonder Girl"
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Dec 10, 2020 20:16
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Skwirl posted:Guardians of the Galaxy wasn't a huge shift from the post Annihilation book, which was probably a lot different from the earlier Guardians books, but I didn't read those. Peter Quill's character was probably the hugest shift because they had to make it an origin film. Open Marriage Night posted:Terry Long isn’t a super hero, and is just Donna Troy’s civilian husband. Not comparable at all to Superman or Mister Fantastic. Lord_Hambrose posted:Self insert or not (seems Really like one, but sure) quote:it is a pretty weird character to be so important. College professors who are also divorced dads with teenage daughters that pick up 18 years olds is undoubtedly a character that hasn't aged the best. And the very least it certainly says something about the writer. They would never try this outside of a Black Label book these days. I have very little emotional investment in the Teen Titans in general or Donna Troy/Terry Long in specific but the particularly sort of hazy "heh, nice pedophile self-insert, Marv!" narrative seems lazy and mean spirited. It's not like it's Pete Wisdom or Reed Richards, or Colossus, or John Constantine, or Hal Jordan or non-dubious-age-gap arguments for 'self inserts' like Luke Cage marrying Jessica Jones if you want to play this thread out to its logical conclusion.
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Dec 10, 2020 20:20
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That famous panel where it's a close up of Terry Long looking sneaky and thinking "If only they knew that their dear and trusted friend was actually me, Marv Wolfman! And Terra is Pablo Marcos. And remember Ding Dong Daddy from the Bob Haney run? Well fucker guess what, that's George Perez, you can tell because they both know the names of the Teen Titans. And Trigon is the great Adrienne Roy. Let's have a hand for Adrienne Roy folks-- how about those beautiful purple Gotham skies, everybody? Ha, we kid, Adrienne, we kid because we love. Furthermore Baby Wildebeest is both John Costanza and Len Wein and Jericho is... mmm.... let's say Joe Orlando. Peace!!"
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Dec 10, 2020 20:29
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When I think of the 80's I think of teenagers that say things like "blast it!" edit:   edit 2: is this a double entendre? 
Jupiter Jazz fucked around with this message at 21:54 on Dec 10, 2020 |
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Dec 10, 2020 21:20
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I am sorry I don't have sufficient respect for the mythology of Terry Long, a gross character. I agree he wasn't breaking any laws, which I guess is all that matters? Marv Wolfman is mostly a good writer, and I love his Tomb of Dracula stuff in particular. I don't think Wolfman is a pedophile, but Terry Long is too prominent for me to think it anything other than a self insert. Maybe not a 1:1 with Wolfman but probably closer than you are presenting. Also, sorry Bendis promotes diversity very actively and dared to have Luke Cage marry a white woman?
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Dec 10, 2020 23:59
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Lord_Hambrose posted:I am sorry I don't have sufficient respect for the mythology of Terry Long, a gross character. I agree he wasn't breaking any laws, which I guess is all that matters? quote:Also, sorry Bendis promotes diversity very actively and dared to have Luke Cage marry a white woman?
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Dec 11, 2020 00:03
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Lord_Hambrose posted:Also, sorry Bendis promotes diversity very actively and dared to have Luke Cage marry a white woman? Uhhh.. Is there something wrong in specific about Luke Cage marrying a white woman?
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Dec 11, 2020 00:09
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Siegkrow posted:Uhhh..
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Dec 11, 2020 00:18
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Edge & Christian posted:
I know this is supposed to be a snarky joke but the implication, even humorously, about Bendis secretly wanting to be African American is really skivvy considering his personal life.
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Dec 11, 2020 00:21
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