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I'm loving the engine for Cyberpunk. Being able to change all settings in the menu instantly is awesome for benchmarking. Most games force you to quit to the main menu to apply some changes or restart the game entirely.
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Dec 11, 2020 05:40
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Nvidia have banned Hardware Unboxed from review samples (just for Founders Edition). HWU noted, Their reasoning is that we are focusing on rasterization instead of ray tracing. They have said they will revisit this "should your editorial direction change." This is probably because Steve's 3060ti review concludes with him writing off RTX on the card, saying he is spoiled enough to consider playing games at 1080p completely unacceptable in this year of our lord, and since the 3060ti can't hit 60 in raytracing at 1440 you should just play with the traditional graphics. I didn't think his review was too negative, it basically came down to "if you can afford $100 extra for ray-tracing buy 3070, if you can't then buy the 3060 and wait another gen". But apparently Nvidia isn't ready to stick 1080p next the to VHS and floppy disks just yet. Considering there's a lot of people snapping up PS5s who haven't replaced their 2008-2015 TVs with 4K models yet, maybe they've got a point, but you still hate to see it. Craptacular! fucked around with this message at 07:13 on Dec 11, 2020 |
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Dec 11, 2020 07:05
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The Steam hardware survey still has fully two-thirds of the respondents at 1080p so actually yeah that attitude is a little spoiled and elitist. You can't just write off an entire segment of market because you think they're doing it wrong.
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Dec 11, 2020 07:10
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HWUB are often contrarians, but usually not without a good point. I think it's reasonable to argue that 1080p is a resolution that should be considered obsolete. If you're throwing money at upgrading a PC with a new GPU, you really shouldn't be sitting on a 1080p monitor unless you're a competitive CSGO or OW player or something.
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Dec 11, 2020 07:13
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HWU are terrible anyway as they are still using a 3950x with 3200mhz ram for their test bench and have the balls to say at 1080p/1440p its a issue with amper scaling at those resolutions and not you know...the cpu?
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Dec 11, 2020 07:15
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Steve's opinion is that RT isn't worthwhile at the moment but HWU do cover RT + DLSS benchmarks. I can see how someone might feel that they're a bit too dismissive of RT in favour of AMD's raw raster performance but it's pretty silly for NVIDIA to do this especially since it'll just be a PR disaster for them. But that might not translate into loss of sales so they might not care...
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Dec 11, 2020 07:23
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At the very least, if you're spending >$300 on a GPU you should be aiming above 1080p.
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Dec 11, 2020 08:09
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Some Goon posted:At the very least, if you're spending >$300 on a GPU you should be aiming above 1080p. exactly. which is why i'm revaluating buying a new pc. probably worth waiting on the more expensive upgrades, if spending $400 now on just the GPU isn't gonna get me great 1440p performance on new games. (didn't mean to imply it wouldn't accompanied wth a new cpu. of course, right now I'd be bottlenecked by my skylake) Rinkles fucked around with this message at 08:23 on Dec 11, 2020 |
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Dec 11, 2020 08:18
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NVIDIA has cut HardwareUnboxed from Founders Edition early access review units due to a perceived anti-raytracing bias and other issues I said earlier in the thread that their 6800xt review was a bit dismissive of the 3080, and their overall graphs lean AMD more than any other reviewer, but I think this is a bad move from NVIDIA. It'll only cement any existing sentiment and it's very poor PR Probably the most egregious issue I think should be addressed however is that their latest 6900XT review didn't show the 3060ti in the perf/$ graph, where it would have been the highest, and in their latest CPU they excluded the 10400f where it would have been the highest. That's poor form. E: rewatching the 6800xt launch day video I can see why NVIDIA would be annoyed. DLSS and RTX are gimmicks and 16gb is the future, and their language around small losses and gains in benchmarks is pretty blatant. This is a stupid response though BurritoJustice fucked around with this message at 08:47 on Dec 11, 2020 |
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Dec 11, 2020 08:34
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I have a lead on a 3060Ti for about 620 dollars (I'm not in the US, to be clear) that I'm reasonably sure I can buy after the weekend. It's way above MSRP, but I am buying from a brick-and-mortar retailer. Someone talk me out of it? My other options are to wait with my RX 580 until next year, or get a 2060, which I expect by now prices have also gone up on - they were selling them for about 450 USD when I last asked in September.
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Dec 11, 2020 09:05
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K8.0 posted:HWUB are often contrarians, but usually not without a good point. I think it's reasonable to argue that 1080p is a resolution that should be considered obsolete. If you're throwing money at upgrading a PC with a new GPU, you really shouldn't be sitting on a 1080p monitor unless you're a competitive CSGO or OW player or something. Absolutely not lmao. You are sounding like someone who has never built to a budget.
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Dec 11, 2020 09:06
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It's a dumb move because one reviewer telling an audience that mostly already buys Nvidia cards that raytracing is overrated at this price point isn't going to cost the company much sales, it's not like at this tier that there's a lot of good competition until next year (the 5700 isn't). On the other hand, the company punishing a reviewer is possibly going to cause the few remaining Radeon die-hards to justify the need to keep buying Radeon and keep bitching about proprietary featuresets, which means someone goes from a 3070/3080 queue to a 6800/XT queue because of a review of the 3060. So you're working against growing whatever mid/high-end marketshare is still left on the table.
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Dec 11, 2020 09:07
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jisforjosh posted:CP2077 in 1440P Ultrawide consistently allocates over 9GB of the VRAM on a 3080 Is that a problem? My 3080 VRAM usage stays around 9GB. There's still 1GB free which the software doesn't use. So it doesn't even use all the RAM available. Clearly 10GB is more than enough for 1440p Cyberpunk! What is an absolute nut crusher is the CPU usage. Task manager shows it at 60-80% when idling and 100% when doing something. My CPU is at toasty 70C. Maybe the RTX psycho settings cause that? Cpu is 4,7Ghz allcore 8700K with dual rank 3600CL15 memory. My GPU is not maxed out. It uses only 260-280W while more demanding games use 330-350W. Perfcap reason is idle in GPU-Z. So I guess I could get more frames out of the game with a faster cpu&memory. Especially more cores might help?
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Dec 11, 2020 09:57
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Cabbages and Kings posted:The PNY 3080 does have a metal backplate. Exact same thing came with my Palit. It looks kinda odd, like someone just cut it up in their garage, but seems to do the job. But yeah, hope you don't want to install any expansion cards. No room for your Adlib soundcard with that thing in.
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Dec 11, 2020 09:59
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The move against HWU seems needlessly punitive especially given NVIDIA's market power. I thought it was a little weird that they focused so much on raster vs raytracing, but one of my more casual PC gaming buddies explained to me how little he cared about raytracing when I showed him the RTX ON/OFF videos, so there certainly must be a ton of people out there who feel the same.
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Dec 11, 2020 10:00
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buglord posted:The move against HWU seems needlessly punitive especially given NVIDIA's market power. I thought it was a little weird that they focused so much on raster vs raytracing, but one of my more casual PC gaming buddies explained to me how little he cared about raytracing when I showed him the RTX ON/OFF videos, so there certainly must be a ton of people out there who feel the same. He also still recommended buying the card for getting DLSS, which seems to be important with Cyberpunk even with RT off. Also, just for fun I thought I'd share this guy's blog with 2077, as he has a bitchin' setup with a 3090 and HDR ultrawide and took a bunch of pictures with features on and off. Even with a 3090 10900K and DDR4-4000, you still need to turn DLSS on to get over the RT hit.
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Dec 11, 2020 10:01
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gradenko_2000 posted:I have a lead on a 3060Ti for about 620 dollars (I'm not in the US, to be clear) that I'm reasonably sure I can buy after the weekend. It's way above MSRP, but I am buying from a brick-and-mortar retailer. It's a four hundred dollar card. People paying way over the odds are the cause of the inflation Edit: Oh, not in the US, so taxes and so on on top, but still, that's expensive.
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Dec 11, 2020 10:03
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IIRC HWU were pissed at Nvidia during the 20 series launch, don't remember the exact reason, and I just took their language during the RDNA2 / Ampere reviews as some residual of that. Nvidia is no doubt being petty, though. If they could have it their way, every review would only be with RTX + DLSS titles versus AMD cards with raytracing on rendering at native, so it's not like I'm particularly sympathetic. There is a little nuance here in that the details which matter are perhaps more different for different consumers than they have been in a long time. Shrimp or Shrimps fucked around with this message at 10:56 on Dec 11, 2020 |
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Dec 11, 2020 10:52
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Jesus is pissed: https://twitter.com/GamersNexus/status/1337295551780548608 https://twitter.com/GamersNexus/status/1337296298995830790 https://twitter.com/GamersNexus/status/1337300582785282049
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Dec 11, 2020 11:06
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So much for Steve ‘taking some time off’ after his surgery. e: Also this feels pretty toothless of Nvidia now that we’re past the release window for most of the high-end cards. The Illusive Man fucked around with this message at 13:07 on Dec 11, 2020 |
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Dec 11, 2020 12:51
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This little dramatic interlude is more interesting than the usual discussion about barely-existant cards anyway.
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Dec 11, 2020 12:55
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Yesterday my 2080 was fine. This morning I’m 11th in line outside a micro center in Atlanta. The itch is real. (Here on a planned trip for unrelated reasons and figured I’d give it a shot while I kill some time waiting on my travel partner.)
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Dec 11, 2020 13:28
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Looking at yourself in the toilet mirror of your first apartment in CP2077 is where DLSS image quality completely falls apart versus native.
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Dec 11, 2020 13:32
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Nvidia are being big crybabies. It's a reasonable stance to disregard RT for rasterization now and Nvidia is really showing their insecure asses here. I like and want RT to be here already but we are still so ways off. HWU Steve disregarding 1080p feels like reviewer syndrome where they let their multithousand dollar review setups affect their judgment. Most people are still on 1080/60 (or lower). I'm sure he realizes that but it's probably hard to not let it affect his views and I remember finding it jarring when watching his stuff. buglord posted:... one of my more casual PC gaming buddies explained to me how little he cared about raytracing when I showed him the RTX ON/OFF videos, so there certainly must be a ton of people out there who feel the same. lol hello, I feel called out. I recently jumped on a 3060TI while I'm still waiting for my 3080 TUF (3rd month  ) from 1060 6gb and like... I see the comparisons in videos that show the differences and think "wow, this is really neat". But when I turn it on myself in Cyberpunk, the only thing I really see is my performance dropping from ~100fps to ~70fps (DLSS Performance 1440p and mix of low to high). Like I know there are RT reflections there somewhere and some shadows are now more crisp but I REALLY just don't pay attention that much unless I make myself to go and look for the stuff that has changed. Game looks amazing either way.
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Dec 11, 2020 13:36
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it dont matter posted:Exact same thing came with my Palit. It looks kinda odd, like someone just cut it up in their garage, but seems to do the job. But yeah, hope you don't want to install any expansion cards. No room for your Adlib soundcard with that thing in. My MSI 3080 came with a metal brace that you can easily install cards below. I have a USB card under mine, with the mounting screw passing through the brace and the card's bracket. You probably couldn't fit another 3080-sized card under it, but with the death of SLI that's not really going to be an issue. I imagine it's the same with the plastic bracket.
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Dec 11, 2020 13:37
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ijyt posted:Absolutely not lmao. You are sounding like someone who has never built to a budget. OTOH, it's precisely because i build to budget that i can agree with the notion that a $400 card in tyool 2020 should under no circumstances not deliver 60fps at 1440p, for 1080p the gpu budget target is in $200-250 range, spending 2 times on the GPU compared to the monitor is silly, especially since monitors last 10+ years while gpus last 5 a 3060ti seems a pretty good $400 card... as long as you're not using RT, which is exactly what HWUB said, and they got pwned for it lmfao
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Dec 11, 2020 13:41
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Its not 1080p thats horrible for gaming its tiny monitors IMO. I understand there's more to it but we're all making GBS threads ourselves to buy GPUs to render games at 960p and upscale them with DLSS screaming about graphical fidelity. To me if you can't do RT without major DLSS you are moving every slider down for RT. It also runs fine on my 2080ti and I just don't care, absolutely colors look better in CP2077 with it on, but after a few minutes I forget which state it's in. I can't imagine we're going to get a game THIS GEN that looks like poo poo rasterized but amazing RT.
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Dec 11, 2020 14:52
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HWU Steve is self-admittedly not a gamer, and when he does it's old games like C&C, so he definitely has a lean towards old style GPU features. His angle of 16gb is better future proofing than 4K performance, dlss and rtx is pretty rear end but I guess it comes from that perspective Disregarding DLSS is more significant than RT, in my opinion. It's basically necessary for maxing out Cyberpunk 2077 and that's a sign of things to come. Truga posted:yeah, 1080p is fine if you're on a budget I think the complaints aren't about the 3060ti video, where he actually harps on about DLSS, and the 6800xt video as well as the 6900xt video where he makes some skewed comparisons BurritoJustice fucked around with this message at 15:13 on Dec 11, 2020 |
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Dec 11, 2020 15:10
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if nothing else DLSS is going to extend the life of every card and is almost more important at the low end. you could honestly get some magic out of "low end gaming" this past gen, but with DLSS i'm kind of interested to see where a 3050 can go.
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Dec 11, 2020 15:13
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it seems like NVidia's problem was that he wasn't showing the benchmarks/charts at all, even if we was saying, sometimes very explicitly, that if you want to use RT at all then you should buy NVidia, end-of.
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Dec 11, 2020 15:14
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gradenko_2000 posted:it seems like NVidia's problem was that he wasn't showing the benchmarks/charts at all, even if we was saying, sometimes very explicitly, that if you want to use RT at all then you should buy NVidia, end-of. they are so small compared to nvidia that this looks absurd though, like when major pols and celebs namesearch on twitter and try to dunk on 30 follower people.
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Dec 11, 2020 15:15
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bus hustler posted:if nothing else DLSS is going to extend the life of every card and is almost more important at the low end. you could honestly get some magic out of "low end gaming" this past gen, but with DLSS i'm kind of interested to see where a 3050 can go. now I'm really having second thoughts on pulling the trigger on that 3060Ti and just getting a 2060 for cheaper
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Dec 11, 2020 15:17
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Considering that nvidia is still gate keeping DLSS, while RTX is both rare in games and comes at such a large cost, I wish more reviewers focused on benchmarks that included neither. Not exclusively, but I think they should be a small part of the overall review. Raster performance is still the most important part of 90% of games people play. Nvidia has successfully marketed DLSS to gamers as this trivial implementation detail that comes with no cost or loss in image quality, but the reality is that most games coming out this year are not implementing it. And as effective as DLSS appears to be, I think it’s pretty troubling that people are pushing developers so hard to make a proprietary black box a critical part of their rendering pipeline. Brownie fucked around with this message at 16:28 on Dec 11, 2020 |
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Dec 11, 2020 15:26
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My overall performance in CP2077 improved when I set Crowd Density to Medium. It really helps the framerate from chugging in outdoor scenes and it's easy to miss since it's a gameplay toggle instead of visuals. Don't really need that many more NPCs onscreen when it kills the framerate by 25fps in every daylight scene.
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Dec 11, 2020 16:21
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So question about the "PerfCap" reason in GPU-Z...mine was showing "PWR" in that column when playing Cyberpunk yesterday. I went into afterburner and cranked up the power limit to 114% since that's as high as it would let me go, and I'm pretty sure I got a frame boost from it. I read some gpu overclocking guides for afterburner and they said you should put that slider up as high as possible then run the automated scanner for an OC, so I believe it's safe do that. Even after I boosted it, the PerfCap reason still states "PWR" when I'm running the game. I understand something will always be in that column and it's not necessarily a problem that it says "PWR". This may be a dumb question, but could a PSU with more juice potentially help me get more performance? I'm running a 750w gold PSU and an RTX 3090 FE. I'm thinking the answer is "No", but I thought I'd ask!
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Dec 11, 2020 16:26
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bus hustler posted:I can't imagine we're going to get a game THIS GEN that looks like poo poo rasterized but amazing RT. Taking CP2077 as the example, it's very impressive how good the lighting is without RT and that's in part down to the great job they've done on materials and PBR as the Digital Foundry analysis video pointed out - work that's independent of RT. That DF video also guesses that CDPR may have pre-calculated lighting for different sun positions so that non-RT doesn't lack good sun/moon lighting. I'd think most games will continue to use approximations to improve lighting until RT hardware is a lot more ubiquitous - they can't afford not to when the new consoles lack DLSS to accelerate RT.
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Dec 11, 2020 16:38
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exquisite tea posted:My overall performance in CP2077 improved when I set Crowd Density to Medium. It really helps the framerate from chugging in outdoor scenes and it's easy to miss since it's a gameplay toggle instead of visuals. Don't really need that many more NPCs onscreen when it kills the framerate by 25fps in every daylight scene. So this is the equivalent of turning off hairworks in Witcher 3.
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Dec 11, 2020 16:51
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exquisite tea posted:My overall performance in CP2077 improved when I set Crowd Density to Medium. It really helps the framerate from chugging in outdoor scenes and it's easy to miss since it's a gameplay toggle instead of visuals. Don't really need that many more NPCs onscreen when it kills the framerate by 25fps in every daylight scene. What is your CPU/GPU? I'm curious which one crowd density is overwhelming.
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Dec 11, 2020 16:56
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Right now it's a 2700x + 3080 so CPU is definitely the limiting factor for crowd density here. This was obvious when I could hit 60fps easily at 1440p with RTX Ultra + DLSS Quality indoors but the second I stepped into a daylight scene it was 45fps city.
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Dec 11, 2020 16:58
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gradenko_2000 posted:now I'm really having second thoughts on pulling the trigger on that 3060Ti and just getting a 2060 for cheaper How much cheaper? The 3060 Ti is like 60% faster at 1440p. It is a huge difference. Ihmemies posted:Is that a problem? My 3080 VRAM usage stays around 9GB. There's still 1GB free which the software doesn't use. So it doesn't even use all the RAM available. Clearly 10GB is more than enough for 1440p Cyberpunk! Based off of my experience, I'm assuming higher clock speeds/IPC will help more than cores when you have at least a 6-core. Try turning down crowd density. Seamonster posted:So this is the equivalent of turning off hairworks in Witcher 3. It seems to be to CPUs what hairworks was to GPUs, yes. sean10mm posted:What is your CPU/GPU? I'm curious which one crowd density is overwhelming. It makes a huge difference on my 3600/3060 Ti. See my earlier post.
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Dec 11, 2020 17:08
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