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Epicurius posted:It's everybody's good friend Visser Three! An Animorphs' book isn't complete until he shows up. Come to think of it - is he in every single book?
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# ? Dec 13, 2020 04:06 |
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# ? May 25, 2024 13:03 |
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freebooter posted:Come to think of it - is he in every single book? "Visser Three is there. ...Visser Three is always there "
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# ? Dec 13, 2020 04:19 |
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freebooter posted:Come to think of it - is he in every single book? Thus far, I think book 10 is the only one he's absent from.
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# ? Dec 13, 2020 04:28 |
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disaster pastor posted:Thus far, I think book 10 is the only one he's absent from. If you want the total list of books he's not in, as far as I can tell, it's 10, 16, In The Time of Dinosaurs, 19, 26, Elfangor's Secret, 31, 34, 35, 40, 41, 42, 43, 46,49 and The Ellimist Chronicles
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# ? Dec 13, 2020 04:53 |
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wizzardstaff posted:
I....honestly don't know what to say...
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# ? Dec 13, 2020 05:50 |
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Someone encountered "put some tail in them!" at a very impressionable stage, apparently
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# ? Dec 13, 2020 06:15 |
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I love the presumably-Ellimist just going "no you need to be over here now" and picking up Tobias' playing piece and putting it somewhere else on the board.
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# ? Dec 13, 2020 08:39 |
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Yeah what happened there
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# ? Dec 14, 2020 05:37 |
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Animorphs Book 13: The Change-Chapter 13quote:Jara Hamee and Ket Halpak were reunited in the shelter of the cave. Tobias once again feeling useless. quote:<You guys go on home,> I told the others. <I’ll keep watch over our Hork-Bajir friends here.> Around this time, the Weekly World News had a recurring story about the Clintons' relationship with P'Lod. Basically, the P'Lod story is as follows....Back in 1992, an unknown alien (we were later to find out his name was P'Lod), met with Bill Clinton and endorsed him at the Democratic national convention. He had previously met with George Bush and failed to endorse him. (After he won the election, Clinton and P'Lod went for a joyride in P'Lod's spaceship) Then, in 1993, the Clintons adopted an alien baby, the only survivor of a UFO crash...or so they said. In 1995, something happened, and the bloom was off the rose, because P'Lod tried to get Newt Gingrich to run for President. Then, after the election, one of the things the Starr Report discovered was that Bill Clinton harrassed P'Lod's sexy alien secretary, almost starting an intergalactic war. It turned out, though, that Hillary was having an affair with P'Lod. Anyway, she ended up dumping P'Lod(although not before he got her alien underwear), and he wrote a book about his love affair with her, including sex tips. Anyway, it seems pretty obvious to me that the alien baby who was the "only survivor" of a UFO crash was actually Hillary and P'Lod's, and the affair led trouble in the relationship that got P'Lod to support the Republicans. And Marco says these papers aren't real! quote:“And how do we know which newspapers and which TV networks are already infiltrated by the Yeerks?” Cassie said. “We could end up handing the Hork-Bajir right back to the Yeerks.” Yea, this is Ellimist foolishness. Also, Ax's question back in chapter 8 comes up, again, and good on him for asking it. "What does the Hork-Bajir want to do?" If the Animorphs are fighting for their freedom, then they have to give the Hork-Bajir the right to be free, and to make choices. The Animorphs can say, "No, what you want is too dangerous and we're not going to help" or "We think this idea would be smarter", but they can't make their decisions for them. Chapter 14 quote:I usually spent the night in my favorite nighttime perch. It’s a high branch, up in the very middle of an incredibly old oak. I like the rough oak bark because it’s easy to hold onto. I can sink my talons deep and drift off to my dreams. They're good for each other. And Ax can help protect Tobias from owls. quote:<Our two Hork-Bajir are pretty quiet in there,> I told Ax. <They were talking earlier. Mostly in their own language. But even then they used some English words. Why is that?> Remember, Ax, like most Andalites , doesn't know that Alloran released a quantum virus to try to kill all the Hork-Bajiir, We do, which is, I think, why it's good the Andalite Chronicles came out just before that...adds to the irony here. quote:<I don’t know, Ax-man. Maybe they’ve had Yeerks in their heads for so long they’ve just absorbed the Yeerk hatred of Andalites.> I think there's kind of a thing here, where Tobias is fighting to set the Hork-Bajir free, but meanwhile, he's being manipulated and used as a tool. quote:Ax ignored my outburst. <If the Yeerks have sent Taxxons, they’ll back them up with Hork-Bajir or humans. No amount of Taxxons could ever destroy a pair of Hork-Bajir. Jara Hamee and Ket Halpak could slice up Taxxons all day.> I think the other thing to keep in mind about Tobias here is that he's been bounced around between uncle and aunt, neglected and abused by the people who were supposed to take care of him, and bullied by his peers. And now he's a hawk. Pretty much his entire life, he hasn't had control over his situation, which is, I think, part of the reason this is upsetting him so much now.
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# ? Dec 14, 2020 05:47 |
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Epicurius posted:Tobias once again feeling useless. To the point you made earlier about him doing something reckless and emotionally motivated (riding along with Rachel to "participate" in the battle), I wonder if part of that is because this is only his second book. So as a POV character, he's one (or three) behind the others when it comes to playing out that "learning to get over whatever your Personal Deal is" angle. quote:Also, Ax's question back in chapter 8 comes up, again, and good on him for asking it. This is probably a dumb comparison, but I was rewatching Lost in lockdown and Ax reminds me of Sayid: a cultural outsider to the group, but quite a bit shrewder than he appears at first glance, and the more the series goes on with both characters the more you like them because they're just really smart, reliable, good guys; quiet, background leader types. Also they're the only ones with an actual military background in a group of erstwhile civilians.
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# ? Dec 14, 2020 07:51 |
How are Jara and Ket married? Jara mentions much later that he was young enough to have been born in captivity and presumably Ket is of a similar age, so did they happen to strike up a relationship during the moments while their yeerks were both out in the pool?
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# ? Dec 14, 2020 08:15 |
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This isn't the focus of the book at all, but I'm thinking about how much work Rachel must be putting in to get that academic award. Other characters have mentioned that being secret guerrilla warriors is really messing with their homework habits, but she's able to pull it off while also doing gymnastics and processing her parents' divorce. No wonder she's proud of it.
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# ? Dec 14, 2020 08:18 |
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wizzardstaff posted:This isn't the focus of the book at all, but I'm thinking about how much work Rachel must be putting in to get that academic award. Other characters have mentioned that being secret guerrilla warriors is really messing with their homework habits, but she's able to pull it off while also doing gymnastics and processing her parents' divorce. No wonder she's proud of it. One of my favorite things about the books is how they manage to say, "Rachel's smart. No, really smart," without outright saying so the way they do with Marco. One of my least favorite things about the books is how many of the ghostwriters completely missed that part of Rachel's characterization, because it wasn't as obvious as Marco's.
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# ? Dec 14, 2020 15:25 |
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It's a good thing Elfangor came across five smart, decent kids instead of five rear end in a top hat dummies. Although actually the Ellimist must surely have been pulling some strings there too, since Tobias is his son and Marco's mum is Visser One, which is too much of a coincidence. And I guess it's super convenient that Cassie has access to all sorts of animals?
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# ? Dec 14, 2020 23:48 |
From memory it comes out that Ellimist stacked the deck like gently caress. I guess he finally learnt to stop losing?
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# ? Dec 15, 2020 00:05 |
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Animorphs Book 13: The Change-Chapter 15quote:<Jara Hamee, we have to go. Right now,> I told the Hork-Bajir as Ax ran off into the night. Remember, they don't interfere! quote:Then, from the vague turquoise fog around me, I saw it flying toward me. It was a bird of prey. A raptor. Some undefinable shape, part falcon, part eagle, part hawk. It had a snow-white belly and reddish-brown back and a tail that spread to show a dusky rainbow of colors. Honestly, good for Tobias here. quote:“And what do you want, Tobias?” So, an Ellimist did it. Chapter 16 quote:It was a long night. I can tell you that for sure. A very long night. Even the Hork-Bajir were worn out by the time the first faint gray of predawn started to appear. It sucks, don't it? quote:<Look, I have to go for a while. I … um, I have to go get food, too.> You know, come to think of it, we've encountered five intelligent species that play a major role in this war....humans, Andalites, Yeerks, Hork-Bajir, and Taxxons. Of those five species, only humans and Taxxons eat meat. Andalites and Hork-Bajir are herbivores, and Yeerks are autotrophs. Don't know if that means anything, but there you go.
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# ? Dec 15, 2020 04:20 |
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Epicurius posted:
Of all the great things in this book, this is one of my favorites. I will, on occasion, be walking around outside (less so lately, obv) and see a good tree, and think to myself, "Earth tree good."
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# ? Dec 15, 2020 04:50 |
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I remember this chapter being such a lightbulb moment as a kid. These fearsome snake/dinosaur monsters covered in blades were herbivores and were peaceful before the Yeerks came along. It beats it into your head from book 1 that Hork Bajir were slaves of the Yeerks and peaceful but this really put the whole situation into a different light. And while I'm sure I felt more sympathetic to them as a kid it seems even sadder now
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# ? Dec 15, 2020 04:55 |
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I think it's the fact that we already knew they were peaceful, but didn't know they had the intelligence of children. They're basically using child soldiers.
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# ? Dec 15, 2020 07:19 |
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The tree bark scene makes me change how I picture the Hork-Bajir. I initially imagine that they had pointy teeth like a T-Rex but if they only eat tree bark then their teeth are probably flat to grind the bark.
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# ? Dec 15, 2020 11:34 |
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Comrade Blyatlov posted:From memory it comes out that Ellimist stacked the deck like gently caress. I guess he finally learnt to stop losing? Yeah if I remember correctly he specifically chose every Animorph except maaaybe either Jake or Rachel. I'm pretty sure Cassie's weird passive timeline stability power was an intentional plant. Jake and possibly Rachel were maybe chosen for their connection to Tom, Marco for Visser One, and Tobias & Ax for Elfangor (and as a result, each other). I'm not sure when that gets fully, explicitly revealed but it feels like a late series thing. Remember...Ellimists DO NOT interfere. The "Earth tree good" scene is one of those beautiful little Animorphs moments. I really loved this book on reread and it's cool to go through one this emotionally dense (like almost all the Tobias books are) chapter by chapter.
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# ? Dec 15, 2020 13:22 |
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From a few posts back and haven't caught up with the rest of the thread yet, but that mock fight/dominance ritual between Rachel and Jara is really odd considering what happens in the Hork-Bajir Chronicles, where it's established that the concept of using blades for violence is completely unknown to non-infested Hork Bajir. It's the *Yeerks* that first realize this, and even the smartest Hork Bajir of all Dak Hamee is completely dumbstruck when Controllers attack him with their blades. Of course it's entirely possible that Hork Bajir culture had completely changed since the 60s, because one of the most horrifying parts of that book is when Aldrea and Dak finally convince the free Hork-Bajir to fight against the Yeerks and they embrace the concept of blade-fighting disturbingly quickly. EDIT: Ok, caught up and I guess this book is where they first introduce the fact that the blades are for bark-stripping, not killing. But it still plays a little weird with the Hork-Bajir Chronicles where not only are they not used for violence, but they don't even really seem to have any concept of violence. But again, a lot of stuff can change in 30 years, especially when literally your entire race is wiped out or enslaved. ninjahedgehog fucked around with this message at 23:27 on Dec 15, 2020 |
# ? Dec 15, 2020 22:53 |
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ninjahedgehog posted:From a few posts back and haven't caught up with the rest of the thread yet, but that mock fight/dominance ritual between Rachel and Jara is really odd considering what happens in the Hork-Bajir Chronicles, where it's established that the concept of using blades for violence is completely unknown to non-infested Hork Bajir. It's the *Yeerks* that first realize this, and even the smartest Hork Bajir of all Dak Hamee is completely dumbstruck when Controllers attack him with their blades. Oh, huh, weird parallel with the wookies in Star Wars: So wookies are really strong and can absolutely kick your rear end if they want to, that's fine, but they also have retractable claws. Apparently these claws are only used as tools for climbing the giant trees that are all over the Wookie homeworld. To use them in combat is a heresy that will get you exiled and viewed at the level of a rabid animal.
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# ? Dec 15, 2020 23:54 |
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Animorphs Book 13: The Change-Chapter 17quote:As I flew up through the trees, I saw the sun just peeking up over the rim of the earth in the east. It instantly lit the treetops with gold. It was a beautiful sight. Golden leaves and dark shadows beneath, and clouds all red on one side and still night-gray on the other. I guess the question is, was Tobias more nurtured as a human or as a hawk? At least now, he's got his friends and he's got Ax checking up on him at night. As a human kid, he didn't even have that. quote:I shoved those thoughts aside. I flapped my wings, ready for takeoff. But I just cleared the tops of the tall grasses when -WHAM! All I can say is that the three of them seem pretty desperately outnumbered. Chapter 18 quote:I was shaking pretty badly by the time I got back up into the blue. And then the first thing I saw was a peregrine falcon riding high. He plays games....and, if you look back at the conversation, he didn't make any promises. quote:<Are you okay, Tobias?> Rachel asked. I could tell from her tone that it was a private message. Only I could hear it. This is Marco, the ruthless. quote:<Easy for you to say,> Rachel said. And that was Marco the practical.
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# ? Dec 16, 2020 05:15 |
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Animorphs Book 13: The Change-Chapter 19quote:“So where exactly are we going?” Marco asked. That song is called "The Happy Wanderer, and was written in Germany shortly after WWII. It was really popular in the 50s, and it showed up a lot on tv and in movies. Here it is: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aTTq3AYC9Lk Or if you'd rather hear it sung by Muppets: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-CYDE_OGO3c quote:“Marco, you should never be singing anything,” Rachel said. “I’ve heard you sing.” Atta boy. That's my hiking strategy too. quote:“I think it’s nice,” Cassie said. “I mean, we’re out in nature. Breathing fresh air. No noise or distractions. No TV or stereo blaring. No cars. Just nature. Trees and animals.” Raccoons can be dangerous. Chapter 20 quote:The raccoon watched me from masked black eyes. I flared my one good wing and snapped with my beak. But the raccoon was too smart and too experienced to fall for my tricks. Right. For somebody who, in the first book, was enthusiastic about morphing, he didn't really collect a lot of morphs quote:And as I concentrated on the raccoon DNA inside me, I felt my beak begin to soften … my talons begin to fatten … and my wings … my glorious wings began to shrink. So, did Tobias get what he wanted?
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# ? Dec 17, 2020 06:00 |
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Epicurius posted:So, did Tobias get what he wanted? I think so, even if he didn't say or know it then. His reaction shows otherwise. And if you think about it, especially knowing how this book ends, it really is the best resolution to the goofy metaphysical exchange that is the dilemma at the heart of this book. I mean, any time the Ellimist(s) show(s) up, it's always a bit of a mess; using such an all-powerful character basically always has to be a deus ex machina, and everything about them and every action they take kind of feels like an rear end pull. But at least giving Tobias his human morph puts some agency back in his hands; any time he wants, he can permanently return to humanity... just at the cost of being a morphless nothlit again. Actually, speaking of that, I know in a future book they find the Andalite's cube again. Can a nothlit gain the morphing power again, or is it one and done? I guess it would have to be, otherwise any Andalite warriors would just get it refreshed if they ever got stuck in morph, and it would hardly be a downside.
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# ? Dec 17, 2020 07:17 |
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quote:“Should we be singing that valderee, valdera, valderee, valdera-hah-hah-hah-hah-hah song?” Marco asked. “I mean, we are ‘a-wandering.’” Epicurius posted:Right. For somebody who, in the first book, was enthusiastic about morphing, he didn't really collect a lot of morphs Fuschia tude posted:Actually, speaking of that, I know in a future book they find the Andalite's cube again. Can a nothlit gain the morphing power again, or is it one and done? I guess it would have to be, otherwise any Andalite warriors would just get it refreshed if they ever got stuck in morph, and it would hardly be a downside.
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# ? Dec 17, 2020 07:37 |
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That raccoon scene sticks in my mind as particularly horrifying.
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# ? Dec 17, 2020 07:41 |
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Once you become a nothlit, you stay a nothlit, unless you have intervention from a 4th dimensional being
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# ? Dec 18, 2020 02:26 |
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SirSamVimes posted:That raccoon scene sticks in my mind as particularly horrifying. I had completely forgotten about it until now, but it is horrifying, and excellent. A great scene and great way to reintroduce a hugely important part of Tobias' story. Fuschia tude posted:I think so, even if he didn't say or know it then. His reaction shows otherwise. And if you think about it, especially knowing how this book ends, it really is the best resolution to the goofy metaphysical exchange that is the dilemma at the heart of this book. I mean, any time the Ellimist(s) show(s) up, it's always a bit of a mess; using such an all-powerful character basically always has to be a deus ex machina, and everything about them and every action they take kind of feels like an rear end pull. But at least giving Tobias his human morph puts some agency back in his hands; any time he wants, he can permanently return to humanity... just at the cost of being a morphless nothlit again. I think they handle it as well as it can be handled, and it opens up a lot of good story moments. He seems like a jerk but I'm pretty sure in the Ellimist Chronicles it's revealed he and Crayak actually did used to fight directly and intervene as much as they wanted, and nearly destroyed space-time itself, so agreed to fight in the future by carefully defined rules. It's not so much a game as it is a war, with both sides adhering to the rules of war. It's not really that different from the benevolent God/free will/problem of evil thing. I do think he would have actually given Tobias his regular body back 24/7, with morphing power, if that was what Tobias really wanted, but it wasn't. And, interestingly, even though Tobias eventually realises that himself I'm not sure he ever discloses it to the rest of the group, particularly Rachel.
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# ? Dec 18, 2020 03:13 |
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Animorphs Book 13: The Change-Chapter 21quote:I flew. Say what you like about Ax....he's cool under fire. quote:<No kidding,> I said. Then, aiming my thought-speak at all my friends, I said, <Everyone keep your heads down. Don’t try and fly or anything. The Yeerks are shooting anything that rises above the trees.> Can't say it here better than Tobias did. Chapter 22 quote:I quickly told them the details of my plan. I had to stick to business. There was no time for feeling sorry for myself. And I sure didn’t want them feeling sorry for me. Hooray for body horror! quote:<Hey, Tobias,> Marco said. <You kept the same feet.> Quite. Any idea what Tobias's plan is?
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# ? Dec 18, 2020 05:23 |
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I remember what it is and the big flaw I see now is surely the Yeerks wouldn't just leave two Hork Bajir corpses out in the forest for hikers to stumble across
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# ? Dec 18, 2020 05:46 |
freebooter posted:I remember what it is and the big flaw I see now is surely the Yeerks wouldn't just leave two Hork Bajir corpses out in the forest for hikers to stumble across Counterpoint: Visser Three
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# ? Dec 18, 2020 09:53 |
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Comrade Blyatlov posted:Counterpoint: Visser Three But would he really not just order them to Dracon the bodies, just to make sure/destroy the evidence? It's not like they've been avoiding their use so far.
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# ? Dec 18, 2020 12:14 |
I can't answer that, but I can say Visser One absolutely would have
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# ? Dec 18, 2020 12:43 |
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Comrade Blyatlov posted:Counterpoint: Visser Three Mr Burns saying "It's ELEVEN FORTY FIVE!" energy
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# ? Dec 18, 2020 12:44 |
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I know what’s still to come in this book, but even at this point there would be nothing stopping Tobias from acquiring a human morph, right? Even doing a DNA mix maneuver like Ax did. I guess they are in the middle of an active emergency so there’s not a lot of time to think through implications.
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# ? Dec 18, 2020 18:10 |
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Animorphs Book 13: The Change-Chapter 23quote:High above the treetops Jake flew in his swift peregrine falcon morph, calling down directions to Rachel and me. As we learned in the last book, it's a little more complicated than that, for all that he's factually right. quote:I don’t know if it was the hawk in me that was angered by the sight of the two humongous worms marching through a decent forest, or the human side of me that just didn’t like gigantic worms, period, or some deep instinct of the Hork-Bajir mind. But I was suddenly filled with hatred and rage. So, Tobias doesn't have much fighting experience, other than his standard "go for the eyes" thing (and the time when he used a gun), and it's a new morph, and unlike wolves or grizzlies or whatever, Hork-Bajir aren't particually aggressive or predators. So lets see how he does. Chapter 24 quote:On our left, fire! Guess he's doing ok. quote:But I was getting hurt at the same time. I was outnumbered. There were three Hork-Bajir on me. So the plan worked. Now they just have to get to the valley. I wonder how often hosts try to run away? We've seen that most of them are broken pretty quickly. But that's the Yeerks' big weakness...they have to feed every 3 days, they're helpless when they do, and they lose control of their hosts. Epicurius fucked around with this message at 05:00 on Dec 19, 2020 |
# ? Dec 19, 2020 04:57 |
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feetnotes posted:I know what’s still to come in this book, but even at this point there would be nothing stopping Tobias from acquiring a human morph, right? Even doing a DNA mix maneuver like Ax did. I guess they are in the middle of an active emergency so there’s not a lot of time to think through implications. Correct. But at this point, Ax is the only one who knows how to pull off that maneuver, and as far as we know, he's never explained it. Plus, the four others are the only reasonable possible DNA sources (especially at the moment), which would basically just give him a copy of Ax's human morph. And, on top of that making it less useful in itself, they're already all weirded out enough by Ax's appearance. Unless he uses fewer sources; say, only Jake and Marco. But that would just make his human morph look even more like those specific people he limited it to.
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# ? Dec 19, 2020 05:38 |
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# ? May 25, 2024 13:03 |
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A bit late, but:quote:We had seen many incredible things since we’d first found a dying Andalite prince in an abandoned construction site. I’ve seen Yeerks and all their tools - the Taxxons, the Gedds, the Hork-Bajir. I’ve seen Andalites and met the Chee, the androids in human form. I’ve traveled through time and to the Yeerk pool and into orbit in spaceships.
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# ? Dec 19, 2020 11:53 |