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Atrocious Joe posted:don't call them landlords, call them "housing providers" holy gently caress the OP’s whole thread is a trip https://twitter.com/jaymart222/status/1337772362759086081?s=20
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Dec 14, 2020 06:33
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Main Paineframe posted:most of these companies aren't anywhere near profitable, and what little revenue they're managing to make is drawn largely from funneling massive amounts of venture capital directly into their marketing budget yeah but with prop 22 they defined the terms of the labor struggle for the next generation, and with pandemic public transit is going the way of the post office
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Dec 14, 2020 06:37
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Atrocious Joe posted:don't call them landlords, call them "housing providers" What if instead of doctors and nurses working for free we pay them, perhaps thru some sort of business model where we all contribute what we can based on our total wealth and income, with rich people Paying more
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Dec 14, 2020 06:47
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Centrist Committee posted:yeah but with prop 22 they defined the terms of the labor struggle for the next generation, and with pandemic public transit is going the way of the post office It was fun seeing prop22 succeed and Uber selling off their self driving car stuff a couple of days later. Why have moonshot projects when you can just exploit people?
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Dec 14, 2020 07:57
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The Nastier Nate posted:What if instead of doctors and nurses working for free we pay them, perhaps thru some sort of business model where we all contribute what we can based on our total wealth and income, with rich people There's also the small shift from "Providing for food free" to "Not paying doctors" because saying we don't expect people to pay for covid treatment is ludicrous.
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Dec 14, 2020 08:10
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Taintrunner posted:holy gently caress the OP’s whole thread is a trip It sure is, especially this reply to the last tweet: https://twitter.com/DamarisMone/status/1337790864647741442 UNIONS 
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Dec 14, 2020 08:19
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it will be free when we abolish money how we doing on that btw?
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Dec 14, 2020 08:44
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T-man posted:it will be free when we abolish money the fed is abolishing the classical idea of money as we speak
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Dec 14, 2020 09:07
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I abolished all of my money already
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Dec 14, 2020 09:08
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R. Mute posted:the thing a lot of these companies do is 'ordinary thing but online and circumventing labour laws' if they even get to that stage. most are just elaborate grifts Never underestimate how much money you can make circumventing labour laws.
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Dec 14, 2020 09:59
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yeah a lot of these companies should probably be seen primarily as political operations to reduce labour costs across society and thus enormously valuable to other business
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Dec 14, 2020 10:03
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Orange Devil posted:Never underestimate how much money you can make circumventing labour laws. It’s literally as profitable as all other types of theft combined, and that’s just the stuff that’s actually illegal.
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Dec 14, 2020 10:07
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Atrocious Joe posted:don't call them landlords, call them "housing providers" Starting to think this Mao fella was onto something!
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Dec 14, 2020 13:03
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No one asked them to buy up all the available low income housing so poor people have no choice but to rent either
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Dec 14, 2020 13:09
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Bismuth posted:No one asked them to buy up all the available low income housing so poor people have no choice but to rent either I'm sorry but those properties simply would've poofed out of existence had a Housing Provider not purchased them
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Dec 14, 2020 13:14
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I vote we call construction workers (not the companies they work for) Housing Providers.
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Dec 14, 2020 13:35
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uh guys, i think these landlords might be rent-seeking
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Dec 14, 2020 14:05
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so i live under a rock but after watching the charlie brown special last night with my partner it ended with a tribute to apple since apple owns it now? do they also own christmas carol too?
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Dec 14, 2020 14:20
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Main Paineframe posted:most of these companies aren't anywhere near profitable, and what little revenue they're managing to make is drawn largely from funneling massive amounts of venture capital directly into their marketing budget its pretty insane, at least on a paper, that Uber, a company whose business model is "hey buddy, do you need a ride? let me hook you up with a guy that has a car and i'll just take a cut of the fare" has such an crazy high operating cost when the company doesnt even own or maintain a single car. (yes I'm aware they have some weird business thing where they finance cars to drivers at an interest rate like x10 higher then normal, but other then that)
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Dec 14, 2020 15:01
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The Nastier Nate posted:its pretty insane, at least on a paper, that Uber, a company whose business model is "hey buddy, do you need a ride? let me hook you up with a guy that has a car and i'll just take a cut of the fare" has such an crazy high operating cost when the company doesnt even own or maintain a single car. (yes I'm aware they have some weird business thing where they finance cars to drivers at an interest rate like x10 higher then normal, but other then that) are they still financing / leasing cars to their drivers? i thought they shut that down after losing massive amounts of money on it (lmao)
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Dec 14, 2020 15:15
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The Nastier Nate posted:its pretty insane, at least on a paper, that Uber, a company whose business model is "hey buddy, do you need a ride? let me hook you up with a guy that has a car and i'll just take a cut of the fare" has such an crazy high operating cost when the company doesnt even own or maintain a single car. (yes I'm aware they have some weird business thing where they finance cars to drivers at an interest rate like x10 higher then normal, but other then that) This is how I know self-driving taxis would never work. These assholes lose that much money and they don't buy, maintain, fuel, or store cars, and the money they let through to the drivers isn't close to that. It was loving embarrassing to read my colleagues in government and academia whose job is regulating and researching this poo poo go on about rebuilding our cities around robocabs.
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Dec 14, 2020 16:57
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Oneiros posted:are they still financing / leasing cars to their drivers? i thought they shut that down after losing massive amounts of money on it (lmao) Yeah that died in like only a year because it was losing too much money even for them, which is saying something. Like how the gently caress do you lose money on predatory loans?
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Dec 14, 2020 17:04
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How many of those loans are being paid though, even a predator cant eat in a desert
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Dec 14, 2020 17:14
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Tiberius Christ posted:How many of those loans are being paid though, even a predator cant eat in a desert at theoretical best, uber giving a loan to their drivers is equal to setting uber's cut of their fares to 100% so they're still limited there like, when your lendee is your employee, their income is coming from the same pocket that they're paying the loan back into, so even in uber's best case, they're getting "free" drivers and still can't break even
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Dec 14, 2020 17:18
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Spazzle posted:Stock price alone isn't meaningful at all. Market cap is what you want to compare. here's a fun picture borrowed from the doomsday ec thread Testvan posted:market cap
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Dec 14, 2020 17:21
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They can't break even because the truth is and always was that most Uber drivers don't make enough money driving for Uber to pay a car loan, and most people who sign up to drive for Uber quit shortly thereafter.
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Dec 14, 2020 17:22
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Plank Walker posted:at theoretical best, uber giving a loan to their drivers is equal to setting uber's cut of their fares to 100% so they're still limited there Business model so robust that they can't even turn a profit on loving indentured servitude. These are our betters 
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Dec 14, 2020 17:31
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Nobody makes money servicing predatory loans, you make the money selling the debt to other suckers, c'mon
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Dec 14, 2020 17:32
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Greg12 posted:This is how I know self-driving taxis would never work. I'm guessing AirBnB is the same concept. All they are is a listing service for people with a spare room...are their operating costs anywhere near as high as Uber? and lol, WeWork. It's crazy how many "tech" companies are basically a glorified craiglist, a site that started in 1995, but at least they have the decency to look like a lovely website that costs like $20 a month to maintain. I'm surprised Tinder or Grindr doesnt call itself a tech company
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Dec 14, 2020 17:59
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The Nastier Nate posted:All they are is a listing service for people with a spare room... That's the lie they spin to make them seem more legitimate. Quite a lot of their listings are people illegally running hotels out of rental properties and poo poo like that.
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Dec 14, 2020 18:10
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 Can’t keep my motorbikes behind my truck in my parking space, can’t keep em in my yard either! This is apparently an issue after several years because?
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Dec 14, 2020 18:19
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The Nastier Nate posted:its pretty insane, at least on a paper, that Uber, a company whose business model is "hey buddy, do you need a ride? let me hook you up with a guy that has a car and i'll just take a cut of the fare" has such an crazy high operating cost when the company doesnt even own or maintain a single car. (yes I'm aware they have some weird business thing where they finance cars to drivers at an interest rate like x10 higher then normal, but other then that) they plow a tremendous amount of cash into subsidizing rides, giving discounts, giving guaranteed driver incomes, handing out free rides, and other things along those lines their general strategy when they enter an area is to start off by giving cheaper rides than all their competitors while paying drivers more than their competitors, even if it means they lose money on every ride. on top of that, they attract as many potential customers with constant discounts and deals and incentives, driving their margins even further into the red for the sake of growing their customer base. the goal is to win over a majority of the drivers and customers in an area and hold onto that dominance long enough for all their competitors in that market to go out of business. once they've done that, they've established a local monopoly, so they can jack up the cost of rides and slash driver pay as much as they want, and can pursue whatever profit margin they feel like as long as the VC money keeps rolling in, they can afford to run at a huge loss, which means they can easily undercut local competitors that have to be run profitably don't forget that they also spend a lot on fighting back against potential regulation, not only with hefty lobbying spending but also with big advertising campaigns packed into their normal operations
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Dec 14, 2020 18:21
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Main Paineframe posted:they plow a tremendous amount of cash into subsidizing rides, giving discounts, giving guaranteed driver incomes, handing out free rides, and other things along those lines I never understood this 'business model', I mean I get slashing prices to drive your competitors into the ground but surely when you eventually MUST jack your prices up to pay off all of that subsidising and turn a profit a new competitor will jump into the market and undercut you just like you did to everybody else. Kinda like how the reasonable prices and ease of use of netflix convinced a lot of people to stop pirating TV and movies for a while but now that there are a hundred different streaming services and their prices are all going up people are just going to go back to piracy.
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Dec 14, 2020 18:47
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Sure but johnny-come-latelies always end up second fiddle. Just try asking for an RC Cola the next time you're at a restaurant in 11 months
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Dec 14, 2020 19:04
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Blackhawk posted:I never understood this 'business model', I mean I get slashing prices to drive your competitors into the ground but surely when you eventually MUST jack your prices up to pay off all of that subsidising and turn a profit a new competitor will jump into the market and undercut you just like you did to everybody else. Kinda like how the reasonable prices and ease of use of netflix convinced a lot of people to stop pirating TV and movies for a while but now that there are a hundred different streaming services and their prices are all going up people are just going to go back to piracy. It's the same model Walmart uses when they move into an area - undercut local business until they go out of business and then creep the prices back up. It feels like there's a lot of truth in this snippet from Silicon Valley, the show. It's not about how much you make, it's about how much your company is valued at. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BzAdXyPYKQo
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Dec 14, 2020 19:54
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Blackhawk posted:I never understood this 'business model', I mean I get slashing prices to drive your competitors into the ground but surely when you eventually MUST jack your prices up to pay off all of that subsidising and turn a profit a new competitor will jump into the market and undercut you just like you did to everybody else. Kinda like how the reasonable prices and ease of use of netflix convinced a lot of people to stop pirating TV and movies for a while but now that there are a hundred different streaming services and their prices are all going up people are just going to go back to piracy. Netflix was smart and they realized that the ease of use and convenience money train wouldn't last forever so now they're dumping money into exclusive content, to bring and retain customers on the platform.
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Dec 14, 2020 20:03
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Blackhawk posted:I never understood this 'business model', I mean I get slashing prices to drive your competitors into the ground but surely when you eventually MUST jack your prices up to pay off all of that subsidising and turn a profit a new competitor will jump into the market and undercut you just like you did to everybody else. Kinda like how the reasonable prices and ease of use of netflix convinced a lot of people to stop pirating TV and movies for a while but now that there are a hundred different streaming services and their prices are all going up people are just going to go back to piracy. Getting a foot in the door/establishing you business is hard. And they're building brand loyalty as well. And you can bet your last dollar that the moment a serious local competitor does show up, Uber is somehow running a campaign at a loss in that area.
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Dec 14, 2020 20:08
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Blackhawk posted:I never understood this 'business model', I mean I get slashing prices to drive your competitors into the ground but surely when you eventually MUST jack your prices up to pay off all of that subsidising and turn a profit a new competitor will jump into the market and undercut you just like you did to everybody else. Kinda like how the reasonable prices and ease of use of netflix convinced a lot of people to stop pirating TV and movies for a while but now that there are a hundred different streaming services and their prices are all going up people are just going to go back to piracy. getting into a price war with a multinational company that already has its infrastructure built out is a tricky proposition. challenging them in one place means they can easily slash prices below cost there while subsidizing it with profits from elsewhere, and challenging them on a regional or national scale is cost-prohibitive unless you've got a ton of investor money. additionally, beating Uber doesn't just mean lower prices for customers - the competitor also needs higher payouts to drivers, and heavy marketing spending, so their costs will be higher as well
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Dec 14, 2020 20:09
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Main Paineframe posted:they plow a tremendous amount of cash into subsidizing rides, giving discounts, giving guaranteed driver incomes, handing out free rides, and other things along those lines Sweet! Explicit market manipulation. Surely somebody in government will put an end to this?
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Dec 14, 2020 20:10
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BonHair posted:Getting a foot in the door/establishing you business is hard. And they're building brand loyalty as well. And you can bet your last dollar that the moment a serious local competitor does show up, Uber is somehow running a campaign at a loss in that area. Isn't it basically doing that in every area? All of these things seem to be weird modern vaporware where they actually deliver the goods to the end-user but the false promise is to the investors (and of course to the workers)
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Dec 14, 2020 20:12
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