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I love the end to this game for that scene. For all the poo poo that Tsumugi hosed up, she really did unintentionally craft the ultimate fiction in that this end literally leaves it open for the player to interpret however they want. Maybe they go out and find loving families who have missed them after they were kidnapped, maybe they go out and find a bombed out hellscape, maybe they go out and are minor celebrities for being in the game. Basically every future you could predict for these characters is a fair read, given their multiple contradictory backstories doesn't contradict anything.
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Dec 13, 2020 01:42
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Back when the demo came out, I predicted that there would only be three survivors, based on the pattern of the survivor count going down each game - 6 in DR1, 5 in DR2, and 4 in DR3 (technically 6 people survived, but Hiro wasn't actually a part of the killing game and Kyoko was "dead" based on the rules). So I guessed that the pattern would continue and have only 3 survivors. According to the DR game thread, I got one of my three predicted survivors correct - Himiko. Of course, given that this was actually DR53, there should be -46 survivors at this point. I guess some of the audience got unlucky.
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Dec 13, 2020 02:03
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Fedule posted:I mean I might as well just lock it now and save OP the trouble. You've got that   OK, jokes aside, that was a heck of a LP. Thank you. 
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Dec 13, 2020 02:04
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mycelia posted:I spent way too much time using the Talent Development Plan mode so god I hope so. I finished this game what, 2 years ago? And I still occasionally feel the itch to go finish it, even though I originally gave up because of the grinding. Same, honestly.
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Dec 13, 2020 02:17
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You know, in all honesty I liked it better when the ending was rocks fall everyone dies. It feels like that last bit just undermined the big buildup and execution of that decision.
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Dec 13, 2020 03:04
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ApplesandOranges posted:Keebo is always on the player's side outside of Trial 5. Ironically, that's the only trial where Shuichi's side is ultimately flawed (that Kaito is dead). Huh, that is a nice little piece of trivia that indicates that the audience was collectively always right. Makes sense for genre savvy observers.
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Dec 13, 2020 03:53
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Thanks for the excellent LP! Getting hooked it early on but then realising how long it would take to get all the way through was just the kick in the pants I needed to play through the game myself, and I'm real glad I did.
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Dec 13, 2020 04:58
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Cut to the Spike Chunsoft studio. A figure in an office chair sitting in front of a computer showing the final video turns toward us, revealing Kokichi, who says “Ain’t I a stinker?” Fade to black.
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Dec 13, 2020 05:58
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I appreciate the thematic consistency where the game that introduced lying as a mechanic is also about how lies (fiction) can be just as powerful as the truth if used for good.
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Dec 13, 2020 06:11
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Still waiting for the reveal that everything was the dying dream of Yamada as he lays on Aoi's arms.
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Dec 13, 2020 06:30
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Solitair posted:
Oh hey, nice! As long as the prize isn't the title of Ultimate High School Dead Pool Guesser and a one-way ticket for a fictional killing game.  Sent you a PM. Also, thank you for the excellent and thorough LP!
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Dec 13, 2020 06:37
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Clarste posted:I appreciate the thematic consistency where the game that introduced lying as a mechanic is also about how lies (fiction) can be just as powerful as the truth if used for good. Also, that's straight up the writers saying Kokichi was right all along about literally everything and it was wrong for everyone to hate him. 
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Dec 13, 2020 07:47
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HerpicleOmnicron5 posted:Also, that's straight up the writers saying Kokichi was right all along about literally everything and it was wrong for everyone to hate him.
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Dec 13, 2020 07:51
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Thanks for showing off the entire thing Solitair, the combination of video and screenshot takes quite some effort. To me this epilogue shows that Spike Chunsoft is leaving open the possibility for another sequel.
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Dec 13, 2020 08:51
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https://twitter.com/dril/status/473265809079693312 or possibly https://twitter.com/dril/status/464802196060917762
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Dec 13, 2020 09:04
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You know back when all the info was new and coming from the Japanese version having been released but there being no English dub, I heard this game get a lot of poo poo and a lot of people being mad about the ending, and I was expecting more of that.
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Dec 13, 2020 12:54
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Junpei posted:You know back when all the info was new and coming from the Japanese version having been released but there being no English dub, I heard this game get a lot of poo poo and a lot of people being mad about the ending, and I was expecting more of that. Yeah, a fair number of people felt that the entire ending was just a massive "gently caress you" to the fanbase. Which it was, but some people just really cannot handle being roasted.
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Dec 13, 2020 13:29
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Great LP! Really a fun ride!Reveilled posted:Yeah, a fair number of people felt that the entire ending was just a massive "gently caress you" to the fanbase. Which it was, but some people just really cannot handle being roasted. No one hates anime fans as much as anime fans.
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Dec 13, 2020 14:44
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Carbon dioxide posted:Thanks for showing off the entire thing Solitair, the combination of video and screenshot takes quite some effort. Clearly it will be a CRPG. There’s already a wizard and an assassin in the party. Your band travels the countryside trying to determine truth from falsehood. I already predict complaints about the slow mana regen.
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Dec 13, 2020 16:17
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FoolyCharged posted:You know, in all honesty I liked it better when the ending was rocks fall everyone dies. It feels like that last bit just undermined the big buildup and execution of that decision. I had the same opinion of FFX-2. I felt the true ending just kinda destroyed the point of Yuna's character development.
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Dec 13, 2020 16:31
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Mecha_Face posted:I had the same opinion of FFX-2. I felt the true ending just kinda destroyed the point of Yuna's character development. I'm kinda mixed on that one. I do think the endings where Yuna turns down the chance to have Tidus come back or the one where she bids farewell to Tidus' spirit on the Farplane are much better thematically, but I don't mind Yuna getting a happy ending after all that she went through. Particularly since the Farplane was established to be all out of whack from the ending of X anyway. Shame about that novel and audio drama. 
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Dec 13, 2020 18:44
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Capfalcon posted:No one hates anime fans as much as anime fans. Is anime real? 
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Dec 13, 2020 19:22
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I've been numb to the sort of disappointing ending that spits on everything that came before it since metal gear solid 4, this one was kinda nice by comparison
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Dec 13, 2020 21:04
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Must have turned off my Vita after the credits or something, because I unlocked all the post-game poo poo but never saw that last scene. Derp. It's a nice place to end, thematically. This story was a work of fiction, but fiction is different from lie. If you, the viewer, found some meaning or enjoyment, that's something real.
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Dec 14, 2020 06:05
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Captain Walker posted:Must have turned off my Vita after the credits or something, because I unlocked all the post-game poo poo but never saw that last scene. Derp. Going outside bad now!
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Dec 14, 2020 06:11
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I suppose it was expected, and it's an okay ending, but only if they actually end the series. Thanks for a great LP.
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Dec 14, 2020 07:14
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See, I'm not reading this as "gently caress the fans", that's definitely the crux of the trial but the actual ending itself is very much "media has value, yeah, even this one". Oddly very GalaxyQuest - media is a "lie", the truth that the crew aren't who they are on screen blows but the messages that come from that crew coming together on screen can be positive. The fans can be creepy and obsessive and bad and take things too seriously, but they can be passionate and caring and supportive because goddamn, they do care about the piece of media. I did just rewatch GalaxyQuest though. It's on Netflix now. Maybe that's skewed my perception.
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Dec 14, 2020 07:20
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ApplesandOranges posted:Going outside bad now! Yeah  HerpicleOmnicron5 posted:Oddly very GalaxyQuest - media is a "lie", the truth that the crew aren't who they are on screen blows but the messages that come from that crew coming together on screen can be positive. Funny enough that's the first thing that came to my mind too.
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Dec 14, 2020 07:23
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I have, over time, become happier with the ending, Herp basically got the gist of where I ended up after thinking about it beyond my initial reaction. But I still maintain the Kaede --> Shuichi swap at the start is a mis-step. You can get the same effect narratively going the other way in my opinion. It might make the rest of the trials different but I don't think outside Korekiyo and Kokichi too much would change by having Kaede be the real protagonist and Shuichi the fake-out.
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Dec 14, 2020 07:34
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I guess it's partially because with Shuichi you get that 'growth' journey as he steadily becomes more confident and the rest of the cast becomes increasingly reliant on his talent as well as stirring up Kaito's jealousy issues. Kaede is a natural leader, and while you can spin something with her trust issues, she doesn't have as much avenue to explore as a protagonist and Kaito has no issues with her taking charge. But I think most people were just kind of bummed because a female protag was a nice change of pace and nope gotcha.
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Dec 14, 2020 07:52
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When I played the game myself, I was pretty primed to appreciate this kind of thematic focus here, since I was in a big roleplaying game at the time. But I think reading at an LP pace and taking extra time to think things over helps make the ending a lot easier to appreciate in general.
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Dec 14, 2020 08:39
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I needed to chew on this ending for a good couple days. I've decided I really like it but it's a lot to deal with. KEEBO WAS ROBBED. Level 1 Thief fucked around with this message at 08:45 on Dec 14, 2020 |
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Dec 14, 2020 08:43
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Captain Walker posted:Must have turned off my Vita after the credits or something, because I unlocked all the post-game poo poo but never saw that last scene. Derp. I was wondering whether anyone would have done that! The game going as far as kicking you out to the title screen before the final scene was a masterstroke. If it had just come after the credits, it wouldn't really be a surprise at all. As it comes after the title screen, you get a couple of seconds to start processing that, no, that really was the ending, there were no survivors, and then the game throws that at you. I understand why people feel their survival undermines the end of the game slightly, but I was still so glad to see it.
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Dec 14, 2020 09:06
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Level 1 Thief posted:I needed to chew on this ending for a good couple days. I've decided I really like it but it's a lot to deal with. Yeah he got a pretty raw deal. Like, he was clearly able to blow up everything, his Mega Buster didn't seem to have limited ammo, yet he had to self-destruct to take out the dome? That's robophobic.
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Dec 14, 2020 12:39
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ApplesandOranges posted:I guess it's partially because with Shuichi you get that 'growth' journey as he steadily becomes more confident and the rest of the cast becomes increasingly reliant on his talent as well as stirring up Kaito's jealousy issues. Kaede is a natural leader, and while you can spin something with her trust issues, she doesn't have as much avenue to explore as a protagonist and Kaito has no issues with her taking charge. I could see it working if they played it out something along the lines of, Shuichi being the apparent killer shakes Kaede's confidence and her belief in everyone working together, and she has to rebuild that over the course of the game.
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Dec 14, 2020 13:48
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fractalairduct posted:I could see it working if they played it out something along the lines of, Shuichi being the apparent killer shakes Kaede's confidence and her belief in everyone working together, and she has to rebuild that over the course of the game. Or everyone else's trust in Kaede (except a select few) is shaken because she trusted the Ultimate Detective and he became the first killer, although that doesn't get the admittedly excellent character growth Shuichi recieves.
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Dec 14, 2020 14:05
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HerpicleOmnicron5 posted:See, I'm not reading this as "gently caress the fans", that's definitely the crux of the trial but the actual ending itself is very much "media has value, yeah, even this one". Oddly very GalaxyQuest - media is a "lie", the truth that the crew aren't who they are on screen blows but the messages that come from that crew coming together on screen can be positive. The fans can be creepy and obsessive and bad and take things too seriously, but they can be passionate and caring and supportive because goddamn, they do care about the piece of media. Yeah, I really don't get how people feel attacked over it. Certainly it can poke at times, but it is like teasing a friend. To me, the ending very much was meant to be an interesting twist while teasing the fans about some things.
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Dec 14, 2020 14:24
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Just make Kaede a guy and Shuichi a girl, problem solved
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Dec 14, 2020 14:56
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MegaZeroX posted:Yeah, I really don't get how people feel attacked over it. Certainly it can poke at times, but it is like teasing a friend. To me, the ending very much was meant to be an interesting twist while teasing the fans about some things. I think the only reason people feel attacked is because the game tells you at the end that "killing games are bad and shouldn't be entertainment" when, well, the player is playing a killing game for entertainment. It's that meme where Marge Simpson goes "it's true, but he shouldn't say it". I never felt attacked for playing it, but I can certainly see why others would. (I will admit that I never replayed the game attempting to find Back Routes out of a strange sense of guilt). It also pretty much says "this franchise needs to die and we are killing it here and now" which is a good way to get fans of a franchise (who presumably want more installments) peeved.
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Dec 14, 2020 15:44
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TwoPair posted:Yeah he got a pretty raw deal. Like, he was clearly able to blow up everything, his Mega Buster didn't seem to have limited ammo, yet he had to self-destruct to take out the dome? That's robophobic. All true, but also consider the goal of what he was doing. This was an execution for everyone, including him. As the executor, he wasn't down below with everyone else. Plus he's been mind wiped anyway, the Keebo you know doesn't exist anymore.
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Dec 14, 2020 15:48
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