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MazeOfTzeentch posted:So, the only DPi that used a GT3 engine was the Nissan, and it had a ton of issues with transmission fragility and weight that basically rendered it uncompetitive once the Mazda was redesigned and reworked by multimatic and joest. It also wasn’t a factory project, and changes to the GT-R GT3 engine caused issue with the DPi team downstream that took time to correct as well. It’s likely to be something boringly race-designed, but hey, just thinking out loud. I also wouldn’t be surprised if the chassis supplier for Porsche and Audi is the same but the engine sides come up with unique solutions. Guess we just have to watch and see what happens!
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Dec 2, 2020 06:11
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Yeah I'd love to see a Turbo I5 or a V10, or something else nice and screamy out of Audi. I'm tired of twin turbo v-somethings in sportscars. Do something cool and memorable, Audi, please.
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Dec 2, 2020 06:34
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MazeOfTzeentch posted:Yeah I'd love to see a Turbo I5 or a V10, or something else nice and screamy out of Audi. I'm tired of twin turbo v-somethings in sportscars. Do something cool and memorable, Audi, please. The last time we asked that, they gave us a V12 twin-turbo diesel that ran almost silent, so.
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Dec 2, 2020 07:29
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harperdc posted:The last time we asked that, they gave us a V12 twin-turbo diesel that ran almost silent, so. Again I really have no faith in the post-Dieselgate, post-Piech Audi to do anything that cool or difficult if there’s an easier, cheaper option on the table. It’s an entirely different company now compared to 15 years ago. But I would love to be wrong!
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Dec 2, 2020 15:28
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I'm okay with spaceshop-silent diesels too, tbh. Just no more twin turbo gas V8s or V6s. They all sound the same and bore the poo poo out of me.
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Dec 2, 2020 16:49
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a high pitched wail rends the night, a trochoidal shadow falls across the gibbous moon the mask of Audi falls off, revealing the abhorrent face of NSU Felix Wankel rises at last from his grave
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Dec 2, 2020 18:49
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an oddly awful oud posted:a high pitched wail rends the night, a trochoidal shadow falls across the gibbous moon Not if Mazda has something to say about it —- Also in utterly predictable news, this will also be the last season for BMW in Formula E. I’d file this under “when you have 10 factory efforts that all want the marketing from winning, you’ll eventually have a few get bored” but also from the statement: quote:However, when it comes to the development of e-drivetrains, BMW Group has essentially exhausted the opportunities for this form of technology transfer in the competitive environment of Formula E. Ah well.
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Dec 3, 2020 00:58
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Formula E gonna pack up shop in a season or 2?
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Dec 3, 2020 01:27
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an oddly awful oud posted:a high pitched wail rends the night, a trochoidal shadow falls across the gibbous moon 
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Dec 3, 2020 01:27
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orange juche posted:Formula E gonna pack up shop in a season or 2? nah, Andretti (who run the factory BMW Formula E team) said they're going to still be in the championship. Audi might allow their current customers to keep using the powertrain after this season, but BMW likely won't, so it's a question how the landscape for that will change and shift in FE after this season. I wouldn't be surprised if somebody else comes in and contracts Andretti to be another works team, the question is who.
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Dec 3, 2020 01:36
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Mercedes are still set to be coming in next year as part of the 3-year intro plan that had BMW come in in 2019 and Porsche in 2020 as well. Series is fine for now but works teams probably aren't gonna stick around long in a series where they're regularly able to be beaten by customer teams like Techeetah. It's probably always going to be a series mostly focused on customers since any sportscar fan knows how fleeting factory support can be, plus the FIA will want it around lest people start pushing for F1 to go electric.
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Dec 3, 2020 03:02
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When Posche and Audi both were in LMP1 did we ever have a bad race at Le Mans? I wanna say maybe one year Porsche won and it wasn't complete insanity but other years it was nuts.
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Dec 3, 2020 05:52
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njsykora posted:Mercedes are still set to be coming in next year as part of the 3-year intro plan that had BMW come in in 2019 and Porsche in 2020 as well. Series is fine for now but works teams probably aren't gonna stick around long in a series where they're regularly able to be beaten by customer teams like Techeetah. It's probably always going to be a series mostly focused on customers since any sportscar fan knows how fleeting factory support can be, plus the FIA will want it around lest people start pushing for F1 to go electric. Mercedes already had a Formula E works team for 2019-20, HWA was the “preparation” team in 2018-19. The Radio Le Mans Midweek Motorsport podcast today suggested the timing was ahead of needed commitment to Gen 3 chassis/rules, and because of difficulty/price to activate at events. Seems the Formula E operators have fairly high price tags for hospitality and advertising.
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Dec 3, 2020 07:01
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There's a reason every other series doesn't run every race in a city center. That poo poo is monstrously expensive, and the easy virtue signaling sponsorship money seems to be drying up. e: also the cars are slow. They need to speed them up and make them a bit more racy if they want better audiences. Top talents racing cars roughly equivalent to Formula 3 cars gets a bit boring after a while.
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Dec 3, 2020 07:05
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orange juche posted:Formula E gonna pack up shop in a season or 2? Seconding the nah. There's still major support by other manufacturers (Mercedes, Porsche, Jaguar, Nissan) and big teams, plus the Gen 3 cars are coming in 2022/23. (This season was due to be the last for the Gen 2 cars, but covid or something.) Mahindra was the first team to commit to them just this week. Here's more info on the Gen 3 cars. They should be pretty bad-rear end, actually. Roughly a 30% power increase (350kw qualifying/attack and 300kw race) and fast charging capabilities (600kw) so they can recharge the battery during pitstops. Kind of crazy that not even three years ago, they were still swapping cars during the race! MazeOfTzeentch posted:e: also the cars are slow. They need to speed them up and make them a bit more racy if they want better audiences. Top talents racing cars roughly equivalent to Formula 3 cars gets a bit boring after a while. With the power of the Gen 3 cars they should be pushing past 180mph easily. However, FE cars are "slow" because of the (deliberately) lovely tires and chicane-laden circuits needed for more regen points. Hopefully the capability of the newer cars can start opening up circuit design.
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Dec 3, 2020 07:12
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orange juche posted:Formula E gonna pack up shop in a season or 2? No way. These rear end-ugly machines fumbling through a million chicanes is the perfect marketing tool for the future.
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Dec 3, 2020 07:21
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WindyMan posted:With the power of the Gen 3 cars they should be pushing past 180mph easily. However, FE cars are "slow" because of the (deliberately) lovely tires and chicane-laden circuits needed for more regen points. Hopefully the capability of the newer cars can start opening up circuit design. What's the power drain at 180 mph like, though? That's much of the reason for all those chicanes and tight corners. The battery tech to run at anything like GP speeds for the 45 minutes they want is not there and won't be anytime soon.
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Dec 3, 2020 07:50
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Formula Es issue is only that you have a series with a lot of manufacturers and no friendly GT3 style way to make sure they all have a turn at winning. So either they win and leave because they've had the benefit or never win and leave because they're not winning. It's what you get for selling your soul to manufacturers, ask the late 90s BTCC or mid 2000s F1.
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Dec 3, 2020 13:13
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Dudley posted:Formula Es issue is only that you have a series with a lot of manufacturers and no friendly GT3 style way to make sure they all have a turn at winning. I also think manufacturers have discovered they can mint some coin from running customer programs, and that’s just not an option (same reason why it’s an issue for F1 now honestly). It’s silly but compared with Dakar cars they can make look how they want, or even the e-touring cars coming soon that will look like street cars, it’s hard to get interest with your speedy race car when it looks exactly the same as others. And for a series drawing poorly on TV and in general interest?
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Dec 3, 2020 15:52
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marshalljim posted:The battery tech to run at anything like GP speeds for the 45 minutes they want is not there and won't be anytime soon. That's, uh, part of the reason why this series exists. To get there sooner. ed- Same with Roborace and autonomous tech. Things aren't exactly going swimmingly over there, either. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q1kRJkqIvos WindyMan fucked around with this message at 20:32 on Dec 3, 2020 |
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Dec 3, 2020 20:29
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Good pair of Super Formula races. They are here if you are interested. In recent years it's been my favourite open wheel series. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k2stTvvllRw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hDGsUz38bb0 Also, Nikita Mazepin, who is featured quite prominently in this video, is an F1 driver as of next year (along with Tsunoda, who won this race, and Schumacher). Should be great. Just great. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tje-KNHp1jw
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Dec 6, 2020 07:44
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Oh hey new details of Peugeot’s LMH powertrain - 2.6 liter twin-turbo V6, 680 hp from the engine and 250 hp from the electric motor on the front axle. https://twitter.com/peugeotsport/status/1338393908762578945 harperdc fucked around with this message at 09:16 on Dec 14, 2020 |
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Dec 14, 2020 09:14
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https://twitter.com/Elmomeister/status/1338406194344579072?s=20 Someone wasn't around last time this (just stick F1 engines in your Prototype, bing bong so simple) was tried.
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Dec 14, 2020 11:30
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orange juche posted:https://twitter.com/Elmomeister/status/1338406194344579072?s=20 Somebody also hasn’t done the math on running times for WEC seasons versus F1 engine requirements. Admittedly the only one of those sports cars where it worked was the Jaguar with the variation on the immortal Cosworth DFV, but that’s kind of the exception proving the rule.
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Dec 14, 2020 14:06
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harperdc posted:Somebody also hasn’t done the math on running times for WEC seasons versus F1 engine requirements. They made a point of saying "a current F1 powertrain is basically eligible under these rules" in one of the hybrid-era rules presentations and there was exactly zero interest.
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Dec 14, 2020 15:32
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I mean a few years back didn't the Toyota LMP1 get close to the F1 quali lap at silverstone. Even then designing an powertrain thats got to run continuously for a 24hr race in a prototype is probably going to be significantly different from one that has to run an hour or so sprint race in an open wheeler
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Dec 14, 2020 18:36
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track day bro! posted:I mean a few years back didn't the Toyota LMP1 get close to the F1 quali lap at silverstone. I think so - plus, back in the day, it was the Jaguar XJR-14 that I think also got very close to F1 times (if memory serves), but that was because it had mountains of downforce and 1991 Formula 1 was kind of a transition still. And I think there's also apocryphal stories of Group B cars lapping Estoril almost as fast as F1 cars in the 1980s as well. but yeah, even taking the current F1 engines having to last six or seven weekends, and then de-tuning the excess power down to what the new LMh rules allow, the engines especially are probably too finicky for sportscar duty. And in any case you wouldn't use the same exact electric motor or battery setup, and secretly that electrical engineering is the really expensive and time-intensive part of electric programs. it is really stupid though that three hypercars have been announced and all are running small-ish twin turbo V6s.
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Dec 15, 2020 00:34
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Maybe I missed it here but it seems Audi is setting up to support customer teams in LMDh. I wonder who would be willing to take the step up and run one of those.
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Dec 15, 2020 01:02
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Brass Hand posted:Maybe I missed it here but it seems Audi is setting up to support customer teams in LMDh. I wonder who would be willing to take the step up and run one of those. New goon project! I've got 50 bucks on it.
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Dec 15, 2020 01:21
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net work error posted:New goon project! I've got 50 bucks on it. Hell yeah 
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Dec 15, 2020 02:03
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In a performance balanced series, using a monstrously expensive unicorn engine designed to a laughably obtuse and convoluted rule set and trying to adapt it to your needs is a Bad Idea and absolutely more expensive than running something purpose built. In other news, to no surprise, Acura and Oreca are "studying" LMDh for 2023. https://racer.com/2020/12/14/acura-initiates-lmdh-design-study-with-oreca/
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Dec 15, 2020 02:50
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harperdc posted:I think so - plus, back in the day, it was the Jaguar XJR-14 that I think also got very close to F1 times (if memory serves), but that was because it had mountains of downforce and 1991 Formula 1 was kind of a transition still. And I think there's also apocryphal stories of Group B cars lapping Estoril almost as fast as F1 cars in the 1980s as well. That was a Ross Brawn car and he pretty much built it exactly like an F1 car.
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Dec 15, 2020 03:31
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Brass Hand posted:Maybe I missed it here but it seems Audi is setting up to support customer teams in LMDh. I wonder who would be willing to take the step up and run one of those. Sounds like it’s a lot of the usual suspects - there’s a reason Phoenix Racing (who used to run in DTM) are looking to get some LMP2 experience. I would imagine WRT is there too. Not sure if Joest would be involved. your friend wicka posted:That was a Ross Brawn car and he pretty much built it exactly like an F1 car. I mean this was before Ross Brawn was Ross Brawn, plus it was at a point where F1 teams weren’t quite as advanced on aero. It absolutely was a bleeding-edge car and the Mulsanne’s Corner breakdown of the technical side is worth a read. The aero work front and rear is unfathomable.
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Dec 15, 2020 03:56
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harperdc posted:Sounds like it’s a lot of the usual suspects - there’s a reason Phoenix Racing (who used to run in DTM) are looking to get some LMP2 experience. I would imagine WRT is there too. Not sure if Joest would be involved. I love that it became a Mazda and also a LeMans winning Porsche
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Dec 15, 2020 16:03
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https://twitter.com/A_S12/status/1338921799657152521 Watch More Supercross
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Dec 15, 2020 20:07
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shocked SHOCKED ok not that shocked https://twitter.com/RACERmag/status/1338984804038144000 https://racer.com/2020/12/15/porsche-confirms-imsa-lmdh-program/ With both Joest and Penske likely wanting programs, plus Core, Ganassi, etc etc I wonder who gets what? e: Marshall has a second article out, points to Penske and surprisingly Multimatic being involved: https://racer.com/2020/12/15/insight-porsches-road-map-toward-a-prototype-reboot/ Cygni fucked around with this message at 00:20 on Dec 16, 2020 |
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Dec 16, 2020 00:13
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It's almost like LMDh is cool as hell
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Dec 16, 2020 01:22
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Cygni posted:e: Marshall has a second article out, points to Penske and surprisingly Multimatic being involved: Full two-car teams for Porsche in IMSA and WEC from 2023. Good to hear. For IMSA, I wouldn’t be shocked if Ganassi becomes the GM team and Penske slides to becoming the Porsche team. That looks likely. Acura/Honda has also signaled its intent to look at LMDh, so wonder how that’ll shift in the future too. Interesting is that it appears the Porsche LMDh could use the Cayenne’s twin-turbo V8, and the Audi LMDh would use the ex-DTM turbo four. Wonder if Honda would consider the same for its LMDh engine, or continue with the turbo V6. Sports cars is always in a cycle, nice to have it building back up again.
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Dec 16, 2020 01:42
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I'm also happy to hear three manufactures now say they want to sell customer cars. That said, they all always say that before they show up on track and then magically none appear, even with rich dudes standing around cash in hand.
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Dec 16, 2020 01:53
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Cygni posted:I'm also happy to hear three manufactures now say they want to sell customer cars. That said, they all always say that before they show up on track and then magically none appear, even with rich dudes standing around cash in hand. Porsche’s motorsports head mentioned the ‘80s and ‘90s specifically in interviews, and said whether it’s customers or the factory team, “a Porsche win is a win!” I think having the “customer car” be a bodywork kit and a powertrain - with common hybrid parts - on top of the P2 chassis is going to make that a much easier setup too. None of the hybrid P1 cars ever made it to customer teams to my knowledge; the factories were always guarded about that. Making it a common part will make that easier.
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Dec 16, 2020 02:31
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