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Chillgamesh posted:I think this argument doesn't hold water any more because it's been demonstrated that people can passively have the Echo and not know it, and such people are also immune to tempering I guess that'd lead me to: isn't it possible that we know what "the echo" is really just a form of tempering? We've seen it demonstrated that tempering doesn't always look exactly the same. Maybe Emet-Selch had some sort of Zodiark-aligned echo? This would kind of double up on the idea of the summoned primals being incapable of this sort of thing, since they're significantly weaker than Hydaelyn and Zodiark. Instead you just end up with what we know to be tempering. I honestly don't know if I believe that myself, I'm just curious if any of you have thoughts.
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Dec 17, 2020 01:20
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Visual Basic Bitch posted:I guess that'd lead me to: isn't it possible that we know what "the echo" is really just a form of tempering? We've seen it demonstrated that tempering doesn't always look exactly the same. Maybe Emet-Selch had some sort of Zodiark-aligned echo? This would kind of double up on the idea of the summoned primals being incapable of this sort of thing, since they're significantly weaker than Hydaelyn and Zodiark. Instead you just end up with what we know to be tempering. We know definitively what the echo is though. It’s waking up to memories of Amarout and getting some of your soul’s old power back. It’s nothing to do with tempering
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Dec 17, 2020 01:23
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Wow, I totally missed that detail. Assuming this was part of the reveal in 5.2/5.3?
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Dec 17, 2020 01:29
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Lahabrea and Igeyorhm talk a bit about the Echo in the aetherochemical research facility. They describe it as the power to break down the barriers of existence, but what exactly that means is open for interpretation. We also don't know the complete abilities the ancients had, so we don't know if it's limited to what they'd expect. At the very least it seems extremely unrelated to being tempered.
Orcs and Ostriches fucked around with this message at 01:36 on Dec 17, 2020 |
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Dec 17, 2020 01:33
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The Echo is not tempering. The Blessing of Light, though...
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Dec 17, 2020 01:55
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Also isn't. Midgardsomr snaps that poo poo off like it's nothing.
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Dec 17, 2020 01:57
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Orcs and Ostriches posted:Also isn't. Midgardsomr snaps that poo poo off like it's nothing. I mean, it's Midgardsormr. Knowing what we now know about tempering, I see no reason why he couldn't effortlessly remove a dose of that.
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Dec 17, 2020 02:03
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"breaking down the barriers of existence" is pretty in line with every explicit thing we've seen the echo do, including its ostensible origin in the whole past-life recollection thing. though i personally think there are a couple more important functions that follow logically off of what's established, probably on the order of access to the original form of creation magic (what happened in seat of sacrifice?)
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Dec 17, 2020 02:10
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Anyone seen Ryne and Gaia hanging around in the overworld after the raid series? I haven't seen them and so far presume they're off taking a joyride in the unmapped empty.
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Dec 17, 2020 02:59
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Zomborgon posted:Anyone seen Ryne and Gaia hanging around in the overworld after the raid series? I haven't seen them and so far presume they're off taking a joyride in the unmapped empty. I mean, the quest that unlocks EP Savage and serves as an epilogue to the questline ends with Gaia inviting Ryne for a ride on her new mount, which only has two seats so you're not invited. I assume that wherever they are, they're greatly enjoying their privacy.
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Dec 17, 2020 03:03
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We still don't know where this fabled cafe is in the Crystarium.../
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Dec 17, 2020 03:05
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Zomborgon posted:Anyone seen Ryne and Gaia hanging around in the overworld after the raid series? I haven't seen them and so far presume they're off taking a joyride in the unmapped empty. We get a letter from Ryne in the Starlight event. They’re working on that festival
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Dec 17, 2020 03:15
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That letter was delightful but Alpha's actually got me emotional once I worked it out.
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Dec 17, 2020 04:00
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rantmo posted:That letter was delightful but Alpha's actually got me emotional once I worked it out. Do you know who wrote the bit at the end of the Alpha letter? I think it was Wedge but I'm not 100% sure.
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Dec 17, 2020 04:53
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AstrialJam posted:Do you know who wrote the bit at the end of the Alpha letter? I think it was Wedge but I'm not 100% sure. It's got to be Biggs or Wedge but I'm not sure which.
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Dec 17, 2020 04:55
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There is also a Roundrox letter 
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Dec 17, 2020 05:08
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And Aymeric is still thirsty as hell.
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Dec 17, 2020 05:10
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rantmo posted:It's got to be Biggs or Wedge but I'm not sure which. i had assumed it was Jessie but i'm probably wrong
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Dec 17, 2020 06:00
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thetoughestbean posted:We get a letter from Ryne in the Starlight event. They’re working on that festival Ah I just finished the normal raids after doing starlight earlier in the week, so I'll have to go back for that.
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Dec 17, 2020 06:47
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I know it's only two data points, but with Emet-Selch being Hades and Loghrif being Artemis, I think it's a pretty solid bet that the rest of the Convocation's true names are those of the Greek gods. Mitron is definitely Poseidon at the very least, since he was all about the ocean. Likewise, Halmarult is probably Demeter. Fister Roboto fucked around with this message at 10:35 on Dec 17, 2020 |
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Dec 17, 2020 10:32
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Fister Roboto posted:I know it's only two data points, but with Emet-Selch being Hades and Loghrif being Artemis, I think it's a pretty solid bet that the rest of the Convocation's true names are those of the Greek gods. Mitron is Artemis. Gaia says his name in the cutscene after e12
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Dec 17, 2020 10:33
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Well I obviously wasn't paying attention.
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Dec 17, 2020 10:36
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And, while this might blow your mind, Loghrif's real name is Gaia.
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Dec 17, 2020 10:43
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Cleretic posted:And, while this might blow your mind, Loghrif's real name is Gaia. Which would make her Artemis's great-grandma, IIRC. Awkward.
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Dec 17, 2020 14:53
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OddObserver posted:Which would make her Artemis's great-grandma, IIRC. Awkward. I mean that is 100% standard for Greek mythology
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Dec 17, 2020 15:31
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Regarding the "is emet-selch tempered" question, I think he was being truthful that he was. But we also know that zodiark needs a pilot and that pilot was elidibus. I'm going to guess that Zodiarks will could be asserted over emet-selch if elidibus wanted to but there really was no need for him to do so as Emet-selch was pretty on board with everything happening. It's true that there was a time period where Emet-selch attempted to put the past behind him and live life as it were, and you can maybe argue that would've been a good time to assert control if elidibus thought he was disengaging too much. But there was also shared respect amongst the two so I doubt elidibus would have thought he needed to do that. EDIT: when you tell Elidibus about emet-selchs last words prior to 5.3 he goes "How could you have erred so wrong?" about Emet-Selch so it' clear he has/had a lot of trust in him to keep doing what they were doing, even throughout that time period.
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Dec 17, 2020 20:41
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There's also that Zodiark is inert and has no will of his own outside of the Elidibus, so it would follow that a tempered of Zodiark would have a great reverence towards him but also a great deal of latitude in interpreting their faith without their god directing his will straight into their brains
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Dec 17, 2020 20:56
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My issue with that is a primal doesn't have to exert their will, and even then they don't control people. Being tempered is enough to turn them fanatical to the cause, which in general will align the individual's actions with the primal. Elidubus's words make sense regardless. The only thing that really exists of him at that point is his mission, and anyone deviating from it at all would be abhorrent to him. All of the tempered sylphs are fanatically devoted to Ramuh, even when Ramuh wasn't around or summoned. His presence makes no real difference to them, except to the point they either need to summon him or not. They don't go back to normal and to their free will again when we defeat him. Ramuh himself states he has no control over that. His proximity alone was enough to temper them, and once tempered, there was no going back (prior to 5.4). Zodiark being inactive or inert would be the same.
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Dec 17, 2020 21:04
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Orcs and Ostriches posted:My issue with that is a primal doesn't have to exert their will, and even then they don't control people. Being tempered is enough to turn them fanatical to the cause, which in general will align the individual's actions with the primal. Tempering already varies greatly between primals though, like alot of the Drowned are like yeah Leviathan fuckin sucks lol and resent being bound to his will but can't do poo poo about it. So between that, Emet being an unsundered Ascian and Zodiark having no desires to impose on him there's plenty of wiggle room for tempering to be a less absolute process than it is for others imo
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Dec 17, 2020 21:27
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wait, which drowned weren't down with snake dad? madison?
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Dec 17, 2020 22:02
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I want to say there'd NPCs with background dialogue in Satasha Hard who are talking poo poo about him? But it's been a good while since I was in there. But definitely had it lodged in my brain that the Drowned aren't all huge fans of Leviathan
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Dec 17, 2020 22:12
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That's Madison and his pals. They basically treat leviathan like an overbearing boss they're kind of terrified of. Beholden to him but also not a complete fanatic.
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Dec 17, 2020 22:29
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Like the scaeven poo poo was Nero making stuff for rowena, Shadow set was things meant to look like the legendary WoD, Crystalarium is self explanatory what crypts are they diving on the first
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Dec 19, 2020 03:27
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ZenMasterBullshit posted:Like the scaeven poo poo was Nero making stuff for rowena, Shadow set was things meant to look like the legendary WoD, Crystalarium is self explanatory I assumed it's gear from the old Lakeland elves
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Dec 19, 2020 03:36
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Thinking back on it, it's kinda funny the Ultimecia expy of Eden ended up being one of the main cast members with amnesia...
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Dec 19, 2020 17:42
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Squall = Ultimecia, I knew it!
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Dec 19, 2020 19:35
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the biggest disappointment in eden is that ryne never busted out the gunblade
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Dec 19, 2020 20:39
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Mister Olympus posted:the biggest disappointment in eden is that ryne never busted out the gunblade If you mean in a combat situation, sure, but she very much did in a cutscene.
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Dec 19, 2020 20:42
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Goddamn, the capstone to the capstone of the role quests is a lot of good poo poo. Dominos falling that were set up years (and expansions) ago in some cases.
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Dec 20, 2020 13:50
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After Than'jit, I really thought the last boss of Eden was going to be some twisted version of Minfilia. Would have made a lot of sense thematically for the setting, having The Warrior of Darkness finish up taking down a twisted version of The Oracle of Light; what with these bosses being broken mirror reflections of already existing entities, and Than'jit being a manifestation of Ryne's own fears and doubts. All in all, I'd say these last four bosses didn't feel nearly as inspired to me as the previous set, save for Than'jit. Also, couldn't help but let out a disappointing groan when it was revealed that yet again "Ascians did it" That said, between the WoL/D, Gaia, and Unukalhai, I'm starting to think it's only a matter of time before we get some plot contrived explanation for travel between worlds for regular joes. What I'm saying is I want to bring Giott with me to The Source for further drunken adventures.
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Dec 20, 2020 17:10
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