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Gothsheep posted:Also, the unit the IG gets in Dark Crusade is the Heavy Weapons Team, and they feel so important to how I play the Guard at least, that the Winter Assault army just doesn't feel complete. Agree. They're so good at stalling an assault while you regroup or protecting a key structure. I really love the guard and I've never been able to beat the Eldar base on Dark Crusade with anyone but them as I tend to level everything with earthshakers.
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Dec 16, 2020 13:05
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Lord_Magmar posted:Depending on what you actually miss of the old Necron lore the Maynarkh Dynasty might interest you. They’re also led by the only canon female Necron Phaerakh, Xun’bakyr Mother of Oblivion. What I miss is their mystery and character. They were largely not explained, they struck without warning against targets that clearly made sense to them and no one else. They were capable of talking when they wished - see Xenology, an utterly fantastic bit of 40k fluff - but generally did not. Yes, they sometimes wiped out entire planets, but sometimes they only sought to capture one particular individual. The C'Tan were a new power in the setting, and the Necrons didn't fight quite like anyone else in the setting and their technology was beyond explanation. Beyond just being a stale rehash of the Tomb Kings, the Newcrons... explained things too much. With storytelling, less is often more, giving the readers'/players' imaginations clearance to go to work. Pity.
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Dec 16, 2020 13:20
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Morand posted:Agree. They're so good at stalling an assault while you regroup or protecting a key structure. I really love the guard and I've never been able to beat the Eldar base on Dark Crusade with anyone but them as I tend to level everything with earthshakers. Yeah, HWTs really epitomize what was being said in that video about the IG playstyle being a 'mobile wall' which feels like trying to attack a fortified defensive line, even when they're the ones attacking you. They're perfect for, what in the Starcraft world, is known as 'the slow push', where you move your infantry up a bit, then your tanks and Heavy Weapons, then your artillery, and you just kind of grind your enemy to dust step by step, because there is no point they can counterattack without jumping into the teeth of these heavily entrenched defenses. EDIT: Spoiler-tagged just in case because of the mention of a unit we haven't seen yet.
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Dec 16, 2020 13:28
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Cythereal posted:What I miss is their mystery and character. They were largely not explained, they struck without warning against targets that clearly made sense to them and no one else. They were capable of talking when they wished - see Xenology, an utterly fantastic bit of 40k fluff - but generally did not. Yes, they sometimes wiped out entire planets, but sometimes they only sought to capture one particular individual. The C'Tan were a new power in the setting, and the Necrons didn't fight quite like anyone else in the setting and their technology was beyond explanation. I suspect the Necron Lord in Xenology was a huge inspiration for the Necron change to be honest. I think the issue that Games Workshop ultimately had with them, is that their mystery really wasn't that mysterious. They did baffling things for baffling reasons and were enslaved to their C'tan Masters in totality. They either exterminated everyone or collected pariahs and snacks for the C'tan. The Newcrons explain more, but to the in universe characters the Necrons are still really weird and mysterious. The whole deal of the Maynarkh Dynasty is they act like the old necrons did but with a solid reason for that characterisation. Their technology is still beyond explanation, to the point of near magic, and they still fight in a way unlike everyone else. The C'tan have the chance to return as a power, but ultimately they weren't actually that interesting in the first place. Their were only two of them alive and functional in the original codex, one of whom was literally just slaughter everyone and the other was a copy of Cegorach and Tzeentch in a golden god body, and he might not have been destroyed by the Necrons in the new lore anyway. There just, wasn't much that could be done as a player with the Oldcrons, there was no real way to personalise the army and that's actually one of the few real selling points Games Workshop discovered before they fixed their management. Lord_Magmar fucked around with this message at 15:04 on Dec 16, 2020 |
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Dec 16, 2020 15:01
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Lord_Magmar posted:I suspect the Necron Lord in Xenology was a huge inspiration for the Necron change to be honest. I think the issue that Games Workshop ultimately had with them, is that their mystery ultimately wasn't that mysterious. They did baffling things for baffling reasons and were enslaved to their C'tan Masters in totality. They either exterminated everyone or collected pariahs and snacks for the C'tan. To each their own. To me, the Newcrons are just Yet Another Group Of Space Assholes.
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Dec 16, 2020 15:03
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Cythereal posted:To each their own. To me, the Newcrons are just Yet Another Group Of Space Assholes. They were Yet Another Group Of Space Assholes before, explicitly so, because they were the slaves of the C'tan and the C'tan are possibly the biggest assholes of all. I think that another part of this is that the Tyranids do the weird unknowable threat thing better than the Necrons by being actually from outside the galaxy and totally inhuman in thought pattern. I liked the Oldcrons myself, they were a cool combination of Terminator and Horde of Zombies, they used an excellent aesthetic with the green lightning and soulless automaton style. But that's pretty much all they had going for them. They hated life, and served the desires of the two C'tan left standing. Or they were broken beyond repair and acted without reason at all. All of the things the old Necrons did are still done by the new Necrons, they just pulled back some of the mystery of them for the players. Much like the Tyranids have gotten less mysterious with each codex as we the players learnt more of how they work. But in universe that mystery and inscrutability still remains. You can't keep things infinitely mysterious when they're a playable option for a tabletop game, because then they just end up not having any hook at all for people to play them besides admittedly awesome aesthetics. Which the Necrons still have anyway. Lord_Magmar fucked around with this message at 15:17 on Dec 16, 2020 |
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Dec 16, 2020 15:09
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Just in case this hasn't been posted here yet. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T8Q34IEdK-8 As for the necrons, I really liked the old style mysterious zombie terminators. That said while all the expansions they gained stripped away the mysterious around them, it honestly feels like for the best. Anymore discussion for them seems like it'd best be saved for dark crusade.
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Dec 16, 2020 15:53
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Tau should be the next army, so you don't need to pump out only basic units and attack-move to the other side of the map
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Dec 16, 2020 17:00
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The Door Frame posted:Tau should be the next army, so you don't need to pump out only basic units and attack-move to the other side of the map Agree. Necron are extremely easy to play but kinda boring to watch.
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Dec 16, 2020 17:09
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You could also go with Orkz and drown the maps with the infinite boyz exploit. 
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Dec 16, 2020 18:31
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Olesh posted:Click this and follow the instructions. You may also want the camera zoom mod (there's different ones for original/WA vs the expansions, but they all install the same way). i believe these basically only let you zoom IN more, though. my disorder runs have been a little mindfucky for me because it feels like can never quite zoom out enough when i'm playing orks.
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Dec 16, 2020 18:56
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Woo, IG!. Tanks and all of the men into the grinder! ironically, more swarmy than the actual intended swarm faction. Looking forward to all the bullshit of the Chaos campaigh. I mean, I think Coolguye might have been better playing as the Eldar than against them...NGDBSS posted:I'm surprised that Sturnn has a distinctly American accent. Most things GW will just stick with throwing in various British accents everywhere That's Paul Dobson again, who was Gabe before. He's Canadian, and that's basically his normal accent he's using as Strunn. In general, I wouldn't really describe the accents as 'British', more... posh mid-Atlantic. And I hope you're not sick of Scott McNeil yet, because pretty much all the rest of the 'sgeneric' IG units are him too. Psyker, Commisar, Priest, Vindicare and Techpriest aren't, but I think that's it.
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Dec 16, 2020 19:23
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Coolguye posted:i believe these basically only let you zoom IN more, though. my disorder runs have been a little mindfucky for me because it feels like can never quite zoom out enough when i'm playing orks. Nah. You can zoom out exceptionally far with camera zoom mods.
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Dec 16, 2020 19:28
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gonna need a link to those like yesterday then, i definitely feel cramped while playing right now
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Dec 16, 2020 19:37
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I somehow played a ton of IG in Dark Crusade and have absolutely no memory of ever using the instant moving about thing they have. I do remember enjoying just having like 5-6 hellhounds bathing the enemy forces in delicious promethium while the flashlight squads mopped up the (few) survivors.
Falcorum fucked around with this message at 21:49 on Dec 16, 2020 |
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Dec 16, 2020 21:46
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Taking Thur'Abis Plateau on turn 2 is a fun thing to do with the IG in Dark Crusade.
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Dec 16, 2020 21:59
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Falcorum posted:I somehow played a ton of IG in Dark Crusade and have absolutely no memory of ever using the instant moving about thing they have. I do remember enjoying just having like 5-6 hellhounds bathing the enemy forces in delicious promethium while the flashlight squads mopped up the (few) survivors. Like Roboky said, it's mostly useful for moving Techpriests around to do spot repairs on defenses. Though sometimes when I was infantry rushing on larger maps with multiple enemy bases, I would get cheeky and send one engineer with them, wipe out an enemy base, drop down a quick Infantry Command on one of their points, and then use it to quickly move my whole army back to base instead of walking them all back. EDIT: I guess what the game expects you to do is leave a couple squads in reserve back at base and use it to quickly reinforce areas that are being harassed. That was probably useful in multiplayer, but in the single player campaign where I lived, you were always better off aggressively pressuring them. Gothsheep fucked around with this message at 01:43 on Dec 17, 2020 |
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Dec 17, 2020 01:41
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most multiplayer maps are too small to keep a dedicated reserve force, but some of the 8 player ones a Guard player could be a serious fuckstick by keeping one reserve squad equipped with whatever weapons made sense for the lead power you were fighting (GLs for eldar/orks, plasma for SM/Chaos) and having them pop up any time a push was made. commissar execute meant that they WERE sticking in there long enough for the welcome wagon to arrive.
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Dec 17, 2020 01:56
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LastRoboKy: Why do you never attach your lord to a unit? The Space Marines don't really have a suitable squad for the Force Command to accompany, but for Taldeer the Seer Council was there.
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Dec 17, 2020 14:47
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Raygereio posted:LastRoboKy: Why do you never attach your lord to a unit? The Space Marines don't really have a suitable squad for the Force Command to accompany, but for Taldeer the Seer Council was there. Good point - with the Space Marines I totally get it - but the Seer Council is literally tailor-made to be the perfect squad to attach the Farseer to - to the point where having her attached to the squad actively reduces her cooldowns.
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Dec 17, 2020 22:07
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Ah, so this is how you use the Guard. They and Orks were always my worst factions to play in multiplayer. And that sucks because they are my favorite races in lore and aesthetics. I never realized that hellhounds and sentinels are actually good, for instance
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Dec 17, 2020 22:26
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Slaan posted:Ah, so this is how you use the Guard. They and Orks were always my worst factions to play in multiplayer. And that sucks because they are my favorite races in lore and aesthetics. I never realized that hellhounds and sentinels are actually good, for instance Kind of. It depends on the stage of the game you're at. Sentinels pretty much required for the IG's early game, since they're the only faction in the game without any infantry that is effective against vehicles. Well, in Dark Crusade they get Heavy Weapons Teams which can be, but they're hard to use effectively. Without Sentinels you'll end up getting rolled over by most of the starting vehicles of the other factions, though. Hellhounds I always found more dubiously useful though. They just tend to die too fast in my experience.
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Dec 17, 2020 23:04
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hellhounds are a hard early to mid game counter to a lot of eldar and ork bullshit, basically. late game they're gonna fall off against both. in terms of MP stuff you send out early game scouts, get the announcement that you're dealing with a light infantry power, and add that to your early game build order. the 1-2 hellhounds you build then go out, absolutely crush a few early skirmishes for you, win some extra strategic points, and get your roll going. then by the time everyone's upgrading to tier 3 you either suicide the hellhounds or just press delete so you can pop out an extra leman russ. sentinels are used similarly. they come out early to harass and delay so you can get an extra strategic point, maybe you keep them around to vape a transport or nip an unaware enemy during tier 2, and then by the time tier 3 rolls around you either suicide them into a listening post to piss someone off or you hit delete to free up the vehicle cap for heavier weapons. the two work into the design of the Guard as an aggressively defensive faction. the lighter vehicles are specifically set up to make early game combined arms thrusts possible, but they're way too fragile and way too weak to support a sustained push. you get in there, you cap the point, you set up entrenchments fast. Coolguye fucked around with this message at 23:32 on Dec 17, 2020 |
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Dec 17, 2020 23:26
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"We are the imperial guard, it is time we started acting like it." Guard begins aggressively fortifying in your direction while setting up mass Lemen Russ assembly lines.
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Dec 18, 2020 15:29
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"Somebody call for an Earthshaker?"
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Dec 18, 2020 15:52
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Really, Supreme Commander is the best depiction of the Guard at war in any video game. Shame they didn't get the license. 
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Dec 18, 2020 15:57
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Lord_Magmar posted:They were Yet Another Group Of Space Assholes before, explicitly so, because they were the slaves of the C'tan and the C'tan are possibly the biggest assholes of all. I think that another part of this is that the Tyranids do the weird unknowable threat thing better than the Necrons by being actually from outside the galaxy and totally inhuman in thought pattern. Having said all this I will admit I have warmed up to Newcrons over the years simply because they have introduced some amazingly entertaining and fascinating characters into the lore, including one particular character who is arguably the single most amusing character in the entire franchise.
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Dec 18, 2020 23:48
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cokerpilot posted:Having said all this I will admit I have warmed up to Newcrons over the years simply because they have introduced some amazingly entertaining and fascinating characters into the lore, including one particular character who is arguably the single most amusing character in the entire franchise. "You can't cut back on history funding! You will regret this!"
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Dec 19, 2020 07:44
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I agree that they threw the baby out with the bathwater in terms of really intriguing ideas with the Oldcrons, but I do recognize the need for the revamp in general. As much as I liked them, they're a little hard to engage with as completely silent robot zombies who march slowly forwards and kill everything to feed another ancient, unknowable evil that looked at the buffet table that was the Milky Way galaxy and said 'me too.'
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Dec 19, 2020 08:09
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A completely truthful video about techpriests. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pMC0aJnjQhc
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Dec 19, 2020 11:21
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So I reinstalled Soulstorm for some comp stomping with the IG. Only to remember that I have massive issues beating even a standard difficulty AI without getting overwhelmed. And an Easy AI is just too Easy in turn so it takes all the fun out. Maybe using the Redux or FoK mod was a bad idea as they might just tamper with the Ai but getting a Squiggoth 20-30 minutes into a game where I'm barely holding back the things already being thrown at me feels more like I'm getting stomped than the reverse.
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Dec 21, 2020 22:49
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Cooked Auto posted:So I reinstalled Soulstorm for some comp stomping with the IG. Only to remember that I have massive issues beating even a standard difficulty AI without getting overwhelmed. And an Easy AI is just too Easy in turn so it takes all the fun out.
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Dec 21, 2020 23:06
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Cooked Auto posted:So I reinstalled Soulstorm for some comp stomping with the IG. Only to remember that I have massive issues beating even a standard difficulty AI without getting overwhelmed. And an Easy AI is just too Easy in turn so it takes all the fun out. Play the Ultimate Apocalypse mod. The AI is very easy to beat on normal.
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Dec 21, 2020 23:32
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I guess I'm having to try more with just vanilla for a while. Just annoyed at how limited the vanilla IG faction is but every other IG mod is just sorta baked in with a bunch of other stuff.
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Dec 21, 2020 23:43
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UA mod gives IG Earthshaker Platforms as a defensive building. Rain of artillery!
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Dec 22, 2020 00:01
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Can I just say that one of my favourite things about all of the DoW games is the voice acting. It really is just the exact right amount of ham.
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Dec 22, 2020 00:29
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Biggest issue with vanilla skirmish as IG is how limited you feel. Only two Leman Russes? Get out here with that nonsense.  Also going up against Dark Eldar went far better than my usual attempts against Orkz.
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Dec 22, 2020 00:34
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Cooked Auto posted:Biggest issue with vanilla skirmish as IG is how limited you feel. Only two Leman Russes? Get out here with that nonsense. I think by most accounts, the vanilla IG is just the weakest faction of the Dark Crusade races. Which isn't to say they're bad, someone has to be 8/8, but they have a really difficult early game in a game that's all about building momentum. My typical build order for IG is two Guard squads, into one builder, one more guard squad, two more builders. The squads cap points as fast as possible. The first builder makes one power generator, and right as he finishes it, the first point should be ready for a listening post. The second builder makes an Infantry Command, then goes to join the first in making listening posts. The third builds three more generators. The guard squads all spread out and capture points until they see the enemy, then they all bunch up to hold the line against the enemy until you have the resources to go to tech 2. From there the game opens up. You build your Machine Command, and I like to put out a couple Sentinels and three Commisars to make my starting squads worth a drat, plus a Tactica Control to start the upgrade train rolling.
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Dec 22, 2020 00:51
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 Order Episode 2: Hold the Line! On any regular day, a Titan crew is an indispensable resource that the Imperium would sacrifice thousands of lives to protect. On Lorn V they're even more important, and they are currently lost behind enemy lines. Fortunately for the crew they are protected by the Space Marines of the Ultramarines Chapter, but it is up to the Imperial Guard to retrieve them all from their crashed location. Sturnn sends his men into the maw of massive entrenched fortifications, and the Eldar watch from the shadows to ensure their unknowing allies are not stymied in their work.
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Dec 23, 2020 00:20
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Speaking of Dark Angels there is that old story that the name of their home base, the Rock, is from a gay club that the writers knew about back then. It's something I've seen thrown around a whole bunch but I have no idea if it's legit or just some odd 40k folktale so to speak. Also after playing with the camera mod for a while now the default zoomed in view is almost unbearable. I would also like to add that vehicle limits for IG suck. Even the Steel Legion mod does I realize and I hate it.
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Dec 23, 2020 01:08
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