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A few months back I mentioned looking for classic comic covers that showed depth for a project I was working on. I have a few pics of my first test run. I learned a lot about how to better go about this for next time, but I'm pretty happy with the first run.   It looks a bit better back lit, so I'm thinking of doing another one like this and putting a kind of light box behind it. Make an accent lamp kind of thing.
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Dec 17, 2020 04:55
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| # ? May 25, 2024 21:48 |
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I recently bought The League of Regrettable Superheroes by Jon Morris and it's generally a fun read, though it has Squirrel Girl in it (I think it was written before 2015). There was an entry for a super heroine called Spider Queen who sounds a lot like Spider-Man. Now I have no idea if Ditko took inspiration from this character for Spider-Man but it's fair to say that the "update" is far more successful than the original. Are there any other examples of something like this where a more modern, successful character mirrors a failed character from the Silver/Golden Age?
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Dec 17, 2020 19:57
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Arguably the entire Charlton (Blue Beetle, Question, Captain Atom, etc.) line. Arguably the entire Gold Key/Valiant (Magnus Robot Fighter, Solar: Man of the Atom, Turok) line Lots of the exact same character being a middling/one-off character before getting revamped (Squirrel Girl, Two-Face, Mister Freeze, Deadshot, Purple Man) decades later There are a lot of cases of character names being recycled from the Golden Age and applied to much more enduring characters too: Daredevil, The Vision, Angel, Miracleman, etc.
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Dec 17, 2020 20:28
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I wasn't thinking so much revamped or recycled but more like the Spider-Man/Spider Queen example. They both have web shooters on their wrists, are mistrusted by the authorities, are spider inspired and use science to help defeat evil doers, but they are completely different characters.
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Dec 17, 2020 20:48
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DC also did that a few times (Flash, Green Lantern, probably a couple more I'm forgetting).
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Dec 17, 2020 20:52
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bessantj posted:I recently bought The League of Regrettable Superheroes by Jon Morris and it's generally a fun read, though it has Squirrel Girl in it (I think it was written before 2015). There was an entry for a super heroine called Spider Queen who sounds a lot like Spider-Man. Now I have no idea if Ditko took inspiration from this character for Spider-Man but it's fair to say that the "update" is far more successful than the original. Are there any other examples of something like this where a more modern, successful character mirrors a failed character from the Silver/Golden Age? Around the same time in the Golden Age, DC had a hero called Tarantula, who also walked on walls (using suction cups) and had a "web gun" that he used to shoot swing lines. So I think it's just a case of creators starting with "If I had a hero based on spiders, what kind of powers would I give them?" and building in similar directions.
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Dec 18, 2020 14:57
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If you build a persona around spiders you should expect to creep people out and be mistrusted.
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Dec 18, 2020 15:34
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How Wonderful! posted:#20 sort of implies that. I might be wrong but I believe that early in the run we also see some contradiction between her "JEN SMASH" speech bubbles and more sedate interior monologue. See also Immortal She-Hulk. I think this is kind of what Ewing tried to explain in the She-Hulk one-shot he did to basically to cover why Jen's not showing up in Immortal Hulk even though she really, really should be by this point. He gave an explanation that in that Hulk form it's not that Jen's less intelligent but that it's harder to fit the thoughts into full sentences and such. I feel like there's probably some mix of Aaron wanting to use the regular Savage Hulk in his Avengers run and getting pissy because Ewing's run sold well enough it's kinda put Hulk off-limits for most other titles, when before no-one really cared what was happening in the Hulk book; and maybe some vaguely misguided attempt to say something about how female anger should be respected/women can be jacked muscle-y types also. Honestly, it'll likely be reverted by corporate mandate by the time the Maslany show starts shooting.
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Dec 18, 2020 22:50
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God knows I do it too, but I think it's a little weird we're constantly imagining that all these Marvel writers are constantly mad at each other for using the characters they're in charge of writing the way they want to.
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Dec 18, 2020 22:57
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I'm less thinking Aaron's shaking his fist at Ewing and more pouting when he sees Immortal Hulk selling 100k and thinking "poo poo, now I can't have Hulk be in my book because people will complain if i mess up Al's story". I suppose another way of viewing it could be Aaron (and Marvel, perhaps) wanting a more traditional Hulk on the shelves, especially when Ewing's Hulk goes more full-on horror a lot of the time. Wonder of Marvel Unlimited, I just skimmed Avengers #20 and it's basically a full issue trying to respond to people missing that version of She-Hulk and it does make some valid points about the objectification of the character and the way women are expected to sublimate their anger, but by the same token it reduces the character back to a very straightforward knock off of the male counterpart and doesn't seem all that sustainable in a solo book unless you're planning to go full-on Bill Bixby. Gaz-L fucked around with this message at 23:17 on Dec 18, 2020 |
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Dec 18, 2020 23:01
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I don't get the impression Aaron's She-Hulk is buff and laconic because he wants to use Hulk but can't. It feels like an elaboration on Jen's issues in the Tamaki run. I actually think "Jen is huge and muscular and thinks it rules" is pretty cool and one of the highlights of Aaron's Avengers.
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Dec 18, 2020 23:43
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I mean, before Immortal Hulk even launched Devil Hulk was showing up in Avengers: No Surrender, and before that Hulk was dead. So I think it's pretty unlikely Aaron had plans to use Savage Hulk given he was off the table canonically for years before his run began.
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Dec 18, 2020 23:44
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I think her embrace of Hulkiness is smart as is the emphasis on her physicality, but I think Aaron is handling it fairly clumsily. #20 was the best articulation of it but it still felt kind of... you know... it's hard to explain but there's a way that sometimes well-intentioned and kind-hearted straight guys try to write about feminist issues and just land slightly off-target. It felt like that. Ewing did a lot to smooth out the rough edges of this characterization-- he's a great, great continuity curator-- but I still think it's silly that Jen's mind is functioning behind the facade of "Hulk smash" diction. I really like Ewing's take on that but I don't think that is conveyed very well in the Aaron-written issues. It's a neat direction for the character that I think is just ill-served by the actual issues it's been playing out in.
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Dec 18, 2020 23:47
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Jen's thinking as she hulk in avengers is basically what he did with JaneThor iirc maybe he just finds the idea funny
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Dec 18, 2020 23:51
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That's probably fair, I'm probably bringing my own bias to it because, to me, it's 100% antithetical to why you'd have the character in a team book. And I'd question the idea of it following on from Tamaki's run when that run ended in a place that seems to have more or less been undone. I'll also be frank and I tend to like even Banner when the Hulk is able to speak intelligently and coherently. The Green Scar and Devil are way more interesting to me than the Big Guy, because the latter as noted recently, is basically a big toddler lashing out from abuse. Which is a character that basically can't have agency, it can only react. Honestly, the vocal tic is the biggest hurdle for me with this new version of Jen. It's like putting Bizarro on the Justice League, more than 2-3 word balloons and you just zone out. And I think Aaron even realises that considering he's using the thought balloons to have more normal dialogue for her. This is kind of a tricky topic to express an opinion on because, like, it makes me sound like I'm arguing against women being able to be mad about stuff or having permission to be themselves and present themselves however they want.  How Wonderful! posted:I think her embrace of Hulkiness is smart as is the emphasis on her physicality, but I think Aaron is handling it fairly clumsily. #20 was the best articulation of it but it still felt kind of... you know... it's hard to explain but there's a way that sometimes well-intentioned and kind-hearted straight guys try to write about feminist issues and just land slightly off-target. It felt like that. I think that's a fair point as well (plus it's been pretty clear in Ewing's Hulk that this is kind of his endgame for Jackie McGee, and he also covered some of that ground with Betty). It might work better if he just went whole hog with it and had her in full on Hulk-mode inside and out, instead of a weird half-way house that doesn't really satisfy either the camp that wants the old approach back or the kind that likes this new version site posted:Jen's thinking as she hulk in avengers is basically what he did with JaneThor iirc maybe he just finds the idea funny EDIT: I'll also add I have had basically no inclination to read Aaron's Avengers beyond checking in on the odd issue/crossover here and there. He's a writer I should like more than I do, but a lot of what he does tends to fall into that 'because I thought it was cool/would look rad airbrushed on a van or guitar case' camp without much substance in my eyes. Gaz-L fucked around with this message at 00:01 on Dec 19, 2020 |
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Dec 18, 2020 23:58
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I think Aaron is just having fun doing his rendition of Grant Morrison’s JLA, and nobody cared if he got weird with She Hulk. The thing to be mad about is that Aaron wanted Thor and Hulk to gently caress, but someone was too much of a coward to let it be Bruce.
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Dec 19, 2020 00:03
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Look, let's not exaggerate. From everything I hear about the creative summits, several years ago Jason Aaron was talking about how he had big plans for whenever he took over Avengers to have Hulk and Thor date. Brian Michael Bendis decided as a giant gently caress you to the fans that he would kill off Bruce Banner in Civil War II just to gently caress with Jason Aaron's future comic Jason Aaron flipped over a table but paused before pulling out his switchblade, and told Bendis to shove it up his rear end, he could just have Jennifer Walters and Jane Foster date as Thor and Hulk in his future book. Bendis put She-Hulk into a coma in retaliation and declared that he was going to make his self-insert Mary Sue Kong into the new Hulk and this self-insert would sleep with literally every member of the Avengers, past present and future. Yes, including Triathlon and Rick Jones. Nick Spencer killed Rick Jones in Secret Empire to protect his personal OTP and the entire Secret Empire event was built to try to trick Bendis into writing his self-insert having sex with a Nazi. Bendis I am told straight up sent a nailbomb to Nick Spencer's house and while there were no fatalities I'm told that is why Bendis was "in the hospital with a life threatening illness" (you can't spell Nick Spencer is Pissed without "ricin") and to make up for Nick Spencer losing most of his right hand they're 'letting' him write Spider-Man, as a giant gently caress you to Dan Slott. Though it's not as if Nick Spencer is actually writing it. Slott meanwhile pitched his FF to be about how Hulk is ultrapermadead and never coming back, he never even existed, not unlike Franklin being a mutant or James Rhodes ever being Iron Man. Al Ewing legitimately and very literally ripped both of Nick Lowe's arms off at the conference to give Dan Slott *four* middle fingers Goro style, then slapped Slott unconscious with the dismembered arms in what was called a stirring tribute to Geoff Johns, who was previously banned from working at Marvel because he literally just shitted all over anyone's scripts before reading them then making one of his proteges wipe the poo poo off and tell him what plot points he should contradict. Hearing that Slott was going to permanently retcon Hulk out of existence and was working his connections to Isaac Perlmutter to make even mentioning Hulk (or retroactively, having written a Hulk comic) a federal crime punishable by getting disappeared, Al Ewing (not a US citizen) cracked his knuckles and swore to bedevil the inhuman scoundrel war criminal Dan Slott's entire loving family for a thousand generations. Not only would he bring Hulk back, but he would write the shittiest, grossest, least popular Hulk comic of all time, something that would enrage Dan Slott for merely existing, and also serve as a giant gently caress You to Jason Aaron, making the Hulk so toxic and awful Jason Aaron would never want to include a character more loathed than Scrappy Doo and Forerunner combined in his Avengers run. And you know these clowns in Congress, he couldn't even do THAT right. Every month is agony as Al Ewing is forced to write more Hulk, and the crisis actor they hired to portray Jason Aaron after he got murdered laughs and laughs. Edge & Christian fucked around with this message at 00:16 on Dec 19, 2020 |
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Dec 19, 2020 00:11
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I've always liked the notion of the gamma stuff being a window into the specific character's psychological issues. Bruce obviously has his anger and childhood trauma, and I always liked the idea of She-Hulk being a reaction to Jennifer Walters having self-esteem/self-image problems, with the less-firm delineation between the two forms being an indicator of progress and such.
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Dec 19, 2020 00:13
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bessantj posted:I wasn't thinking so much revamped or recycled but more like the Spider-Man/Spider Queen example. They both have web shooters on their wrists, are mistrusted by the authorities, are spider inspired and use science to help defeat evil doers, but they are completely different characters. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arrow_(comics) Timely Comics' Laughing Mask was arguably an earlier version of The Punisher. he's since been rolled into 616, but there's a good chance you've never heard of him https://marvel.fandom.com/wiki/Dennis_Burton_(Earth-616) arguably Ray Palmer (and Hank Pym) were successors to the original Doll Man, a scientist who can shrink but retain his full-size strength (there is a golden age version of The Atom, but he didn't have super powers) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doll_Man Atlas Publication's Captain Atom predates the Charlton version by a couple decades, but his powers are only marginally based on anything atomic https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Captain_Atom_(Atlas_Publications) I want to say Harvey Comics' Black Cat but I honestly couldn't tell you if that influence went anywhere in specific because she and a thousand other golden age characters were basically rip-offs of Batman and there's a good chance that anything that seems to have recycled from Black Cat was actually just also a rip-off of Batman https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Cat_(Harvey_Comics) Blazing Skull doesn't really have that much in common with the character he's arguably a precursor to, but I also don't even have to say who that is because he has a flaming skull for a head https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blazing_Skull less obscurely, there's the original Human Torch, of course there's also Captain Cold and Elongated Man, but neither of them would really be considered failed in the eyes of comic readers (and of course Plastic Man pre-dates Elongated Man and Mr. Fantastic by like 20 years, and Plastic Man is cartoon-in-the-70's famous) actually... Spectre is also arguably a less famous version of flaming skull head man 🤔 but that offends my sensibility I guess once you've opened up comics-famous vs. famous-famous that opens the door to all kinds of arguments that probably aren't really what you're looking for e: fixing url's Cubone fucked around with this message at 00:30 on Dec 19, 2020 |
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Dec 19, 2020 00:27
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I like Aaron more often than I dislike him, it's just that his Avengers doesn't click with me. Everyone feels slightly off, it's just that I'm more invested in She-Hulk than I am in Ghost Rider or Blade. I think the wry zaniness that worked in Wolverine & the X-Men and the sense of grandiose scale that worked in Thor just feels a little sour here-- perhaps because I've been much less into the art than I have in any of his past work that I've read.Edge & Christian posted:Hearing that Slott was going to permanently retcon Hulk out of existence and was working his connections to Isaac Perlmutter to make even mentioning Hulk (or retroactively, having written a Hulk comic) a federal crime punishable by getting disappeared, Al Ewing (not a US citizen) cracked his knuckles and swore to bedevil the inhuman scoundrel war criminal Dan Slott's entire loving family for a thousand generations. Not only would he bring Hulk back, but he would write the shittiest, grossest, least popular Hulk comic of all time, something that would enrage Dan Slott for merely existing, and also serve as a giant gently caress You to Jason Aaron, making the Hulk so toxic and awful Jason Aaron would never want to include a character more loathed than Scrappy Doo and Forerunner combined in his Avengers run. 
How Wonderful! fucked around with this message at 00:41 on Dec 19, 2020 |
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Dec 19, 2020 00:37
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Gaz-L posted:I'm less thinking Aaron's shaking his fist at Ewing and more pouting when he sees Immortal Hulk selling 100k and thinking "poo poo, now I can't have Hulk be in my book because people will complain if i mess up Al's story" I don’t think that kind of thing has ever mattered to a comic book writer
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Dec 19, 2020 01:08
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Retro Futurist posted:I don’t think that kind of thing has ever mattered to a comic book writer I guarantee you John Byrne saw someone use a character and said to himself "No, I do not accept this" and then wrote that character into a series later and fixed what the other writer broke.
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Dec 19, 2020 01:20
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Rhyno posted:I guarantee you John Byrne saw someone use a character and said to himself "No, I do not accept this" and then wrote that character into a series later and fixed what the other writer broke. It's Doombots all the way down.
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Dec 19, 2020 02:26
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Dawgstar posted:It's Doombots all the way down. I was specifically referencing his use of the Demon in his Wonder Woman run. Allegedly he hated what Garth Ennis had done to the character and of course had to fix it. And then later his Doom Patrol run where he righted the wrongs Grant Morrison had wrought.
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Dec 19, 2020 02:48
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They let Byrne write Wonder Woman? What did Garth Ennis do with The Demon that Byrne felt he needed to fix it?
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Dec 19, 2020 02:51
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Skwirl posted:They let Byrne write Wonder Woman? Byrne created Cassie Sandsmark
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Dec 19, 2020 03:01
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Ennis wrote the last year or so of the Demon and then used him a bit in Hitman. When he shows up in WW he's back to his old semi heroic ways and not the monster Ennis turned him into.
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Dec 19, 2020 03:49
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Skwirl posted:They let Byrne write Wonder Woman? That was the period where Wonder Woman became the Goddess of Truth. Maybe when I'm finished with the long Legion haul, I'll do a read through of post-Crisis Wonder Woman. I know enough not to bother with Silver Age and pre-Crisis, at least...
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Dec 19, 2020 04:18
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Random Stranger posted:I know enough not to bother with Silver Age and pre-Crisis, at least... Don’t kink shame
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Dec 19, 2020 05:00
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Retro Futurist posted:Don’t kink shame Your kink is bad, left over Superman scripts with a ton of misogyny and a weirdly high amount of racism thrown in? Or is it continuously publishing awful comics to fulfill a contractual obligation and keep the character rights away from the original owner?
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Dec 19, 2020 05:07
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Gaz-L posted:Byrne created Cassie Sandsmark What the gently caress
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Dec 19, 2020 05:14
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You should at least read the two issues Samuel R. Delany wrote and think about what could have been.
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Dec 19, 2020 06:00
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How Wonderful! posted:You should at least read the two issues Samuel R. Delany wrote and think about what could have been. I didn't realize Delany wrote any comics. I'll definitely check those out.
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Dec 19, 2020 06:11
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Random Stranger posted:I didn't realize Delany wrote any comics. I'll definitely check those out. He's written a few! The Wonder Woman issues are the slightest since his run was so abbreviated-- basically one issue wrapping up loose ends and then a really intriguing real first issue and then that's it. He also did a 1978 GN with Howard Chaykin called Empire that's pretty fun, and a more recent graphic memoir about his partner Dennis, Bread & Wine.
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Dec 19, 2020 06:35
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How Wonderful! posted:He also did a 1978 GN with Howard Chaykin called Empire that's pretty fun, and a more recent graphic memoir about his partner Dennis, Bread & Wine. Cool. His prose memoir is excellent if you haven't read it, so I'll have to check out Bread & Wine.
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Dec 19, 2020 07:02
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I haven't read Heavenly Breakfast but I like The Motion of Light in Water and I've read Times Square Red, Times Square Blue probably a dozen times and taught it maybe half that much.
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Dec 19, 2020 07:09
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Random Stranger posted:Or is it continuously publishing awful comics to fulfill a contractual obligation and keep the character rights away from the original owner? Well as an American comics fan, obviously yes. 
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Dec 19, 2020 08:42
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Endless Mike posted:What the gently caress You didn't know? Yeah, he created her but I think Peter David did the heavy lifting with her character in Young Justice.
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Dec 20, 2020 06:00
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Dawgstar posted:You didn't know? Yeah, he created her but I think Peter David did the heavy lifting with her character in Young Justice.
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Dec 20, 2020 08:22
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| # ? May 25, 2024 21:48 |
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Cubone posted:there was Centaur Comics' Arrow, the first archery-themed superhero, which was of course done more famously later by Green Arrow and Hawkeye That's pretty cool, you're right I'd never heard of Laughing Mask.
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Dec 20, 2020 17:23
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