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Here or DC thread is fine, I imagine. There's also this liveblogging thread that hasn't been used since April 2019 you could just take over I suppose.
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Dec 15, 2020 22:45
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Gaz-L posted:As a recently very rare BSS poster: what would be the best place to talk about, say, a recent binge through multiple runs of Wonder Woman? The DC thread? Here? There's a thread back on page two for livereads that you could resurrect, alternatively I think the DC megathread would be fine. Edit: Oh, well, Endless Mike got there before me. Thank you!
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Dec 15, 2020 22:49
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Liveblogging wouldn't really be right in this case, I had let a bunch of books pile up in my Comixology due to various other things taking my attention/life stuff over the last couple years, and now due to covid and working from home I finally manage to make it through it (with the exception of ditching Nightwing once I got to the Lobdell run, made it about half an issue in and couldn't take any more). Which included about 80 issues of Wonder Woman, and then I finally got around to going through the original Rucka run and finally am making my way through the Simone stuff now. Which is basically 6 different writers (and more pencillers because they were less consistent throughout) runs. James Robinson: Technically proficient, art was generally very good, as folks like Lupacchino are usually reliable. But so much about this run just screams a fundamental, in my eyes, lack of understand of the appeal of the character. Honestly, I feel like Robinson didn't even really want to be working on the book, considering Diana is barely ever the actual hero in her own story. And the laser-focus on making sure we up the number of important male characters in the story by revealing Wonder Woman's secret brother and also making her (ugh) father the big heroic presence in the story was absolutely infuriating. Moreso because there were interesting ideas, especially Jason's armour that imbued the wearer with the powers of the Greek gods, but only one at a time a la Ultra Boy. Just reinforced my hatred for the daughter of Zeus origin. G Willow Wilson: (technically Steve Orlando had an arc in here, but it tied into his longer run later) Much more interesting by actually feeling like it was interested in both saying something about the character, and bringing back some interesting elements that had been shuffled off the table. Felt a little cut short because the budding romance between the waitress-turned-Amazon and her satyr friend got dropped abruptly, though I suspect that was due to the whole Lex/Year Of The Villain stuff getting thrust on them. The idea of the gods being directly linked to their domains was very clever, as was the sudden reintroduction of the mythical elements of the book. The humour worked really well, especially the buddy-cop element of Giganta in her appearances. And the handling of the slow burn collapse of the Steve Trevor romance was excellent, even if the flirting with Atlantiades never really felt that earned. But more than anything it felt like Wonder Woman was the actual focus of the story, instead of waiting for daddy or little brother to save her. I'll try and come up with some more coherent thoughts about the other runs in another post soon.
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Dec 15, 2020 23:06
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Gaz-L posted:Liveblogging wouldn't really be right in this case, I had let a bunch of books pile up in my Comixology due to various other things taking my attention/life stuff over the last couple years, and now due to covid and working from home I finally manage to make it through it (with the exception of ditching Nightwing once I got to the Lobdell run, made it about half an issue in and couldn't take any more). Which included about 80 issues of Wonder Woman, and then I finally got around to going through the original Rucka run and finally am making my way through the Simone stuff now. edit: my mistake. It was Phil Hester who took over.
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Dec 15, 2020 23:20
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Hester actually made the back half of that arc semi-readable, especially compared to JMS's Superman. The best issue of which, incidentally, was also written by a fill-in. One G Willow Wilson, as I recall. That Robinson WW run also had a weird moment where it turns out Darkseid's whole plan to invade Themiscyra is because he's sad about his Amazon girlfriend dying.
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Dec 15, 2020 23:25
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Is there Bernie Wrightson art in poster form that is easy to get? I love his style but original art is insanely expensive
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Dec 16, 2020 21:58
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El Gallinero Gros posted:Is there Bernie Wrightson art in poster form that is easy to get? I love his style but original art is insanely expensive It's not "Scarface poster from Target" cheap, but this stuff is more affordable. https://store.nakatomiinc.com/berniewrightsonsfrankenstein.aspx I haven't actually bought anything from them before so no guarantees on quality or customer service.
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Dec 16, 2020 23:36
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The Dollarama down the road from my place has graphic novels for some reason. For four bucks a piece I picked up Wonder Woman: a true Amazon, Batman: Man Bat, Chris Claremont's Justice League run. I also noticed they had a bunch of random nu-52 stuff like Teen Titans by Lobdel and Pam's Superman stuff.
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Dec 17, 2020 01:55
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Madkal posted:The Dollarama down the road from my place has graphic novels for some reason. For four bucks a piece I picked up Wonder Woman: a true Amazon, Batman: Man Bat, Chris Claremont's Justice League run. I also noticed they had a bunch of random nu-52 stuff like Teen Titans by Lobdel and Pam's Superman stuff. They should give Pam her comics back. 
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Dec 17, 2020 02:08
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Madkal posted:Chris Claremont's Justice League run. They should have paid you to take this one.
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Dec 17, 2020 02:17
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There's a Claremont Justice League run? Who gets tentacles?
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Dec 17, 2020 02:23
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Random Stranger posted:They should have paid you to take this one. I had a long hard look at it before deciding to purchase it. On the one hand I'm sure it sucks, on the other hand I will be off work for two weeks and the rain is lovely and I need something to read that isn't on a screen. On the other hand it has a story by Chuck Austen. On the other hand it was 4 bucks.
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Dec 17, 2020 02:23
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Skwirl posted:There's a Claremont Justice League run? Who gets tentacles? It introduces the absolute worst version of the Doom Patrol in a storyline that's amazingly bad.
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Dec 17, 2020 03:57
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Random Stranger posted:It introduces the absolute worst version of the Doom Patrol in a storyline that's amazingly bad. Claremont has the highest highs and lowest lows of any writer in comics ever. Like, if you were stranded on a desert island and the only reading material was a random selection of Claremont books you could have one of the greatest libraries ever or something to use instead of leaves for toilet paper.
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Dec 17, 2020 04:08
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I think this JL story came out like 15 years ago where Claremont was clearly nowhere close to his peak anymore and the story was pretty much done by name recognition alone (also it has Byrne on art duty so pretty much a "hey kids remember Claremont/Byrne on X-Men 20 years ago?")
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Dec 17, 2020 04:16
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Madkal posted:I think this JL story came out like 15 years ago where Claremont was clearly nowhere close to his peak anymore and the story was pretty much done by name recognition alone (also it has Byrne on art duty so pretty much a "hey kids remember Claremont/Byrne on X-Men 20 years ago?") ...Isn't that a really bad idea anyway, seeing as Byrne and Claremont famously hated working together?
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Dec 17, 2020 04:22
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Madkal posted:I think this JL story came out like 15 years ago where Claremont was clearly nowhere close to his peak anymore and the story was pretty much done by name recognition alone (also it has Byrne on art duty so pretty much a "hey kids remember Claremont/Byrne on X-Men 20 years ago?") The semi-forced Joe Kelly off the book to give it to them. Joe dances around it but he's mentioned his original plans for the series and he expected to be on the main JLA book for a while yet when they brought in the geriatrics.
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Dec 17, 2020 04:24
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To clarify the above posts, Joe Kelly was on JLA for about two years, starting with JLA #61 (December 2001) and ending with JLA #90 (November 2003). I don't know the circumstances of how he left the book, though he did come back to write JLA #100 which led into a twelve issue Justice League Elite mini-series in 2004-5. Immediately following Kelly's run was a Denny O'Neil/Tan Eng Huat arc in #91-93, which in turn was followed by THE TENTH CIRCLE, which was a John Byrne plotted/penciled arc that was designed as a backdoor pilot for Byrne's Doom Patrol revamp, in addition to introducing the new vampire menace CRUCIFER. Apparently Byrne and Claremont didn't interact meaningfullly in the production of book; Byrne had submitted penciled pages, which DC editors then handed off to Claremont to script and Ordway to ink as a "REUNION" event. This team/'team' was never meant to be the permanent creatives on JLA, as this was during the period that Dan Didio and co. were chasing the dragon of HUSH and felt that having trade-ready 'single-title event' comics featuring big names was the way of the future, so post-Kelly JLA was John Byrne and Chris Claremont's "THE TENTH CIRCLE" (#94-99) Chuck Austen and Ron Garney's "PAIN OF THE GODS" (#101-106) Kurt Busiek and Ron Garney's "SYNDICATE RULES" (#107-114) Johns/Heinberg & Chris Batista's "CRISIS OF CONSCIENCE" (#115-119) Bob Harras and Thomas Derenick's "WORLD WITHOUT A JUSTICE LEAGUE" (#120-125) This eventually overlapped with/got replaced by the CLASSIFIED and CONFIDENTIAL lines of anthologies, which at least on paper probably had bigger names attached JLA: Classified (launched the same month at JLA #108) Grant Morrison & Ed McGuinness - "Ultramarine Corps" (#1-3) Giffen/DeMatteis & Kevin Maguire - "I Can't Believe It's Not the Justice League" (#4-9) Warren Ellis and Jackson Guice - "New Maps of Hell" (#10-15) Gail Simone & Jose Luis Garcia Lopez - "The Hypothetical Woman" (#16-21) Steve Englehart & Thomas Derenick - "A Game of Chance" (#22-25) Howard Chaykin & Killian Plunkett - "Secret History" (#26-31) Dan Slott & Dan Jurgens - "The 4th Parallel" (#32-36) Peter Milligan & Carlos D'Anda - "Kid Amazo" (#37-41) Justin Gray & Rick Leonardi - "Martian Madness" (#42-46) Mike W. Barr & Randy Green - "Repo Men" (#47-48) Andrew Kreisberg & Paulo Siqueria - "To Live in Hearts We Leave Behind" (#49) Roger Stern & John Byrne - "That Was Then, This is Now" (#50-54) Some of this might have been trying to mark time for Brad Meltzer's big JLA run, which like so many books of the era had a lot of weird delays and fill-ins. Meltzer's JLA run launched the same month as JLA Classified 26 and a solid six months after the majority of ONE YEAR LATER books started/the above mentioned JLA run ended. The release schedule for Meltzer's run ran: #1 - August 2006 #2 - September 2006 #3 - November 2006 #4 - December 2006 #5 - December 2006 #6 - March 2007 #7 - April 2007 #8 - April 2007 (fill in art by Shane Davis) #8 - May 2007 #9 - May 2007 #10 - June 2007 #11 - July 2007 (fill in art by Gene Ha) #12 - August 2007 And then Dwayne McDuffie came on for a short troubled run from #13-15, then #16 was a forced Tangent Universe one-shot by McDuffie, then Alan Bennett wrote #17-19, McDuffie was back for #20-28, #29 was a Len Wein one-shot, McDuffie wrapped things up in #30-34 after basically getting fired for complaining about all of the above, then Wein came back for three issues with Thomas Derenick (always ready to fill in) before the book got an actual regular writer again (James Robinson) who as I think I wrote up in a post last week got to write the book for 2-3 years while having at least half of his issues be tie-ins/crossovers to other books and events. Then the New 52 hit and since then JLA has at least (mostly) been allowed to have a long-term regular writer (Johns, then Snyder, and presumably soon Bendis) Edge & Christian fucked around with this message at 05:14 on Dec 17, 2020 |
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Dec 17, 2020 04:47
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Skwirl posted:Claremont has the highest highs and lowest lows of any writer in comics ever. Like, if you were stranded on a desert island and the only reading material was a random selection of Claremont books you could have one of the greatest libraries ever or something to use instead of leaves for toilet paper. According to Chris Sims and Matt Wilson, it's Frank Miller. https://warrocketwiki.com/index.php?title=Every_Story_Ever Batman: Year One is their #2 book, Holy Terror is their #2 worst book.
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Dec 17, 2020 05:16
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Who was the dipfuck who came on the Superman titles, turned Lana Lang into a man-hating shrew, and finished his run under some really dumb alias because everyone hated it? Austen?
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Dec 17, 2020 05:57
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Writer X
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Dec 17, 2020 06:53
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Skwirl posted:It's not "Scarface poster from Target" cheap, but this stuff is more affordable. It's been a minute, but I own a couple of prints from nakatomi, and the quality's good. The only time I needed customer service (the post office claimed they couldn't safely reach my door, which was horseshit, and the poster tube got sent back), they handled it well.
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Dec 17, 2020 08:05
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CapnAndy posted:Who was the dipfuck who came on the Superman titles, turned Lana Lang into a man-hating shrew, and finished his run under some really dumb alias because everyone hated it? Austen? Wild guess but Chuck Austen might have written Action Comics and he might have done an interview where he called Lois Lane a "gold digging bitch" and talked about how Lana Lang is actually a better partner for Superman because she loved him before he was "rich and famous", whereas Lois is only into Superman after he became a celebrity. Lana Lang and I'm just sort of flying by the seat of my pants here, it's impossible to read or find articles about these comics, was less of a man hating shrew and more of a parade of characters (Batman, Wonder Woman, Ma Kent, etc.) who had speeches to Superman about how Lois Lane ain't poo poo and she should treat Superman better, and that Superman could do better. This all might have happened in the last couple of issues of Action Comics credited to Chuck Austen, and then his Gog/Doomsday story might have been hastily wrapped up by "JD Finn". This might be more of an "Alan Smithee" thing after Eddie Berganza insisted on making big changes to the scripts as opposed to Chuck Austen taking on a sassy pseudonym. Who knows, really? You might have been thinking of Peter Tomasi/Writer X.
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Dec 17, 2020 14:34
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Can you guys recommend a podcast that looks at the comics industry more from a business angle? I just heard about the switch to direct market distribution in the 1970s, and I'd love to learn more about that sort of thing. History, present and future of the business side of comics.
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Dec 17, 2020 15:38
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Edge & Christian posted:This all might have happened in the last couple of issues of Action Comics credited to Chuck Austen, and then his Gog/Doomsday story might have been hastily wrapped up by "JD Finn". This might be more of an "Alan Smithee" thing after Eddie Berganza insisted on making big changes to the scripts as opposed to Chuck Austen taking on a sassy pseudonym. Sean McKeever has said that editors at DC basically write the books at times and I think his tenure on Titans was after this, but I wouldn't be shocked if it was the case here as well.
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Dec 17, 2020 15:50
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Let's be fair. Going off of "wrote Lana as a shrew" it could be any Superman writer on the past 70 years. Every writer seems to hate Lana...
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Dec 17, 2020 16:05
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Chuck Austen was (at least ostensibly) pro-Lana and was notable for being anti-Lois as laid out in this blog piece.
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Dec 17, 2020 17:17
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Edge & Christian posted:This all might have happened in the last couple of issues of Action Comics credited to Chuck Austen, and then his Gog/Doomsday story might have been hastily wrapped up by "JD Finn". This might be more of an "Alan Smithee" thing after Eddie Berganza insisted on making big changes to the scripts as opposed to Chuck Austen taking on a sassy pseudonym.
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Dec 17, 2020 17:31
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Greg Pak rules. https://twitter.com/Elana_Brooklyn/status/1048640577665994752?s=19
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Dec 18, 2020 05:46
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caved and ordered the THIRD printing of last ronin #1..i figured if i ignore something and it gets a third go around, might as well check it out
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Dec 19, 2020 03:53
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zer0spunk posted:caved and ordered the THIRD printing of last ronin #1..i figured if i ignore something and it gets a third go around, might as well check it out Cowabunga, let's kick shell! I'm still working through the Mirage stuff, have a bunch of Turtles trades I've yet to dive into.
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Dec 19, 2020 06:37
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I'm sure if I had to work with Steve Ditko in any sort of professional capacity he'd be loving infuriating, but this is god damned amazing. https://twitter.com/KingMoleMan/status/1340135086520463360?s=20
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Dec 19, 2020 12:17
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 The Gang Tag Request Thread is live! Come get your tags!
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Dec 20, 2020 09:16
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Skwirl posted:I'm sure if I had to work with Steve Ditko in any sort of professional capacity he'd be loving infuriating, but this is god damned amazing. "I was paid to do this" hahahahah oh steve, you total dick i had a chance to buy mr a 1 & 2 in nm and i turned it down...gently caress ayn rand on the other hand i would have been bitter too had i created marvel characters and got dicked..surprised kirby didn't go down that path too
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Dec 20, 2020 15:42
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zer0spunk posted:on the other hand i would have been bitter too had i created marvel characters and got dicked..
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Dec 20, 2020 16:00
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FilthyImp posted:I always assumed his standoffish weirdness was due to his extreme lolbertarianism. I mean, this is the guy that was using original Spider-man art as a cutting board because he had already received payment and to profit off of those works would be dishonest I think he got bitter as time passed and he saw how much money he lost out on..he wouldn't talk about his "old" work at all when people wrote to him...that was my take away at least. The industry dicked so many creatives in so many generations and now I have a shelf full of amazing image collected editions, so I don't know how to feel about it.
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Dec 20, 2020 16:05
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It really depends on how you are defining "bitter", Jack Kirby spent far more time doing interviews complaining (justifiably) about how he wasn't fairly credited or compensated for his creations, how Marvel wasn't returning his original art, etc. He did entire interviews and panels about how Marvel Entertainment Group were crooks, Stan Lee never created anything, and on several occasions took credit for characters he appears to have been only loosely involved with, such as Spider-Man. Kirby was by most accounts a friendly, generous guy who spent the last decade and a half of his life full of ill will towards Marvel's management and the comic book industry. Steve Ditko is tougher to see into the heart of, mainly because from the limited accounts we have he was someone who claimed to not receive or want money for the Spider-Man movies/licensing because "I have not worked on Spider-Man since 1968" but also apparently did receive money and royalties. He would talk about not caring about his old dead work but also write angry letters to mainstream publications who didn't co-credit him alongside Stan Lee for creating the character. Jack Kirby went through a protracted legal battle to get some of his classic original art back from Marvel to be part of his family's legacy/inheritance, Ditko apparently always had his art to the original Spider-Man stories and would cut it up to use for other projects or ink blotting or just scrap paper. Because the art was meaningless he could claim after it was published. So they both 'went down a path', and 'bitterness' is a hard thing to quantify/see into the heart of. Both of them (and countless others) have a right to be upset about not benefitting (sufficiently or at all) for their contributions/creations that built a multi-billion dollar global juggernaut, but it's hard to tell where Ditko's Objectivism ends and his bitterness begins.
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Dec 20, 2020 16:40
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FilthyImp posted:I always assumed his standoffish weirdness was due to his extreme lolbertarianism. I mean, this is the guy that was using original Spider-man art as a cutting board because he had already received payment and to profit off of those works would be dishonest Yeah Ditko was a crazy weirdo moron who should be taken as a lesson in what not to be as an artist or human being
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Dec 20, 2020 16:50
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Edge & Christian posted:It really depends on how you are defining "bitter", Jack Kirby spent far more time doing interviews complaining (justifiably) about how he wasn't fairly credited or compensated for his creations, how Marvel wasn't returning his original art, etc. He did entire interviews and panels about how Marvel Entertainment Group were crooks, Stan Lee never created anything, and on several occasions took credit for characters he appears to have been only loosely involved with, such as Spider-Man. Kirby was by most accounts a friendly, generous guy who spent the last decade and a half of his life full of ill will towards Marvel's management and the comic book industry. If I made something and someone else took it and profited from it without me, I'd be whatever you wanna call it too honestly. It's hosed up, same as what happened to siegel and shuster, alan moore, and countless others. I wish that was talked about more often, it's rare that people know the story behind some of these coming up on a century-old franchises.
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Dec 20, 2020 16:55
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Edge & Christian posted:it's hard to tell where Ditko's Objectivism ends and his bitterness begins. If I got dicked out of credit/money/etc then I'd consider any original material in my possession fair play. But no, Ditko's gotta defer to the Corporations and Contracts
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Dec 20, 2020 17:17
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